You want to leave...leave. And good riddance

[jeter]

I've read a couple of posts here by supporters of a certain candidate that cry about the fact that their candidate lost (or is losing).

It's the media's fault. It's the Washington insiders fault. The DLC don't want to lose control.

First of all, the DLC was supporting Joe Lieberman and now maybe John Edwards. They are not now, or never have supported John Kerry.

As far as the media goes. Yes, they were unfair to Dean. Jesus, grow up will you. He was the front-runner. The media ALWAYS goes after the front runner. Dean's problem wasn't that the media "came after him" (he should have expected that), it was that he completely fell apart when they did. Do you really believe that the GOP wouldn't be one hundred times worse in the general election? Were going to give the nomination to Dean and let him fall apart THEN?

I was a Dean supporter. I changed my mind about him around this time. Before the loss in Iowa and the Scream. It was in the last week of that campaign. I saw Dean for what he is - an amateur. He has no one to blame but himself.

It wasn't a conspiracy. So stop your crying. What are we giving up with Dean exactly? Okay he opposed the war when the others eiher supported it or were too chicken to oppose it. I'll give him that. But so what? I opposed the war too. I went to the rallies. I did what I could. But is that the end all and be all of who and what I am? So what? John Kerry WOULD not have gone to war against Iraq. Anyone who believes he would have is fooling themselves. Like all other politicians he wanted to cover his ass. I agree it didn't show too much courage, but it doesn't change who he is and what he stands for.

Other than his position on the war what is so great about Dean? All the candidates have similar health care proposals. His tax plan would be an electoral disaster for us. Why not limit tax increases to the wealthy - Christ, they got like 90% of all the cuts anyway. So the devotion to Dean is less about Dean himself. It is about NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT. For that childish reason, some people are willing to reelect a chimp.

Out of 9 candidates Kerry was probably my 4th ot 5th choice. But he can win. He's got the best ideas. He looks the most presidential. He can go all the way.

Right now, all I care about is beating that little maniac in the White House. If John Kerry can do it, then I support him.

If people lose sight of that and say how its Dean or nobody. Well then go ahead. I'm tired of convincing cry babies why it should be Anybody But Bush. If after 4 years you haven't figured it out, then you never will.

Edit: So I make it absolutely clear (and don't get locked) I am addressing those SPECIFIC supporters of Dean who say if Dean doesn't win they will leave the Democratic Party or stay home. As if threatening us will make us support Dean. These posts are never locked, and I don't expect this one to be either. The VAST majority of Dean supporters I know for a fact are good people and loyal Democrats. I do hope that this post does not offend them.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Nice rant. I 100% agree. (nt)

[La_Serpiente]

25. that's an awesome sig

:thumbsup:

[WilliamPitt]

2. Inflammatory padlock in 3...2...1...

And I would add that anyone frustrated with the media's treatment of Dean should spend a day trying to get the media to play it straight with the Kucinich campaign. Yesterday CNN said Dean was the only candidate campaigning in Maine, but Dennis was all over that state. Yesterday Headline news said Edwards took third in Washington, but Dennis in fact took third. The half-hour national news broadcasts on CBS, ABC and NBC have given Kucinich exactly 0.94% of their coverage, according to an international watchdog group study.

So...suck it up, folks.

[redqueen]

9. "So...suck it up, folks."

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

LOTS of whining today.

[no name no slogan]

11. Here, here, Wil!!

I hate to say it, but every time I hear supporters of ANYONE but DK or Sharpton whining about their candidates "unfair" coverage, I just roll my eyes. Even on a LOCAL media level, we get a FRACTION of the coverage of the others, even though our events draw more people and our campaign has more active volunteers.

Glad you're on our team. Keep up the fantastic work!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. The thoughts expressed may be uncomfortable to many on DU.

But the method of expression is not inflammatory.

Similarly, it is not inflammatory to point out that Kerry is winning and Dean is losing. It is not inflammatory to mention Dean's mismanagement of his campaign funds. It is not inflammatory to mention that Dean's campaign manager is a lobbyist. It is not inflammatory to ask when Dean will drop out.


No matter how much folks may not want to hear those things, simply mentioning them is not inflammatory.

[Gato Moteado]

19. that pains me greatly!

as you may know, Will, dennis kucinich was my candidate at least a year before he announced his candidacy. when i saw the studs terkel article in the nation, where studs said that dk should run for pres, i was so excited that one of my heroes had just endorsed the same guy that i hoped would run. then dk announced he was running and i was ecstatic.

it's obscene the way the media has ignored and tried to marginalize the best candidate out there. it's depressing. i'm so glad you're working for him now....i hope you can help him get his messsage out to a broader audience.

[aldian159]

20. Will, I got a question

Would you rather have Dean's negative press or DK's no press?

No sarcasm.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. I will rally behind Kerry if he is the nominee

I will not launch attacks against Kerry that could hurt him in the fall, or burn bridges that may prove needed. I will campaign for Clark as long as he is in the race. Simple.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. All I can say is if this is how Dean responds when he's pitching and

there's two men out and three men on...where is the evidence that he'd be any better against a Republican congress, senate and campaign war machine?

[Julien Sorel]

17. 'But Dean's not like those other candidates.

He'll fight back.'

How will he do that?

'He'll raise money.'

How is that fighting back?

'Every time he's attacked, he raises more money.'

How is raising money fighting back? Bush raises money by the truckloads, far more than Dean could ever hope to raise.

'But Dean will fight back.'

How?

'He'll raise money.'

How is raising money fighting back against smears?

'Dean isn't like Dukakis or McGovern. He'll fight back!'


And on and on and on. I had this dialogue two or three times here, and of course, once Dean was actually subject to attacks, even the mild ones he got, he collapsed like a hamstrung fat man.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Those threatening to bolt are such a tiny minority, they are irrelevant.

And most of them will come to their senses before November.

[jeter]

13. This isn't about ALL DEAN supporters

I agree the majority are good people. This is about the very small minority who bought into the whole myth.

That's what it was - a myth.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Exactly.

I had Dean as my second choice when I arrived at DU. If I hadn't been a Kerry fan for a decade, Dean would have been my first choice at that point.

[Hoppin_Mad]

30. You might have made that clear in your first post

[jeter]

34. I did make that clear

I'm addressing people WHO specifically say they will bolt the Democratic Party if Dean doesn't win.

[lancdem]

6. I agree

:thumbsup:

[quinnox]

7. Great post

Agree one thousand percent!

I have noticed there is a solid recurring 25% here in polls who consistently say they will either vote third party or stay home.

There are many greens I think who simply are not democrats, but don't make this clear for one reason or another. Maybe it is fun to play games and pretend to be a democrat, I don't know!

[jeter]

15. quinnox, I agree

I also think you have some freepers causing trouble. Pretending to be Dean supporters outraged with the Democratic Party and the like.

[blm]

24. BINGO!

They are the ones who post the most sanctimonious screeds here against Kerry. I doubt real Dems would do that.

[Hoppin_Mad]

36. Names ? Please back up your assertions -nt-

[quinnox]

26. I think you are right about the freeps

They figure they can come here and pretend to be a supporter of another candidate and then bash Kerry to their hearts content.

[Hoppin_Mad]

37. Maybe you have some names of these DU Freepers as well ? -nt-

[Hoppin_Mad]

35. Please expose which Dean supporters are "covert Freepers" -nt-

[Rowdyboy]

8. Thank you, thank you, thank you

for saying it so well, without being rude as I likely would have been.

:thumbsup:

Don't have the power to make anyone stay and, after 4 years of Bush, NO ONE in their right mind should need convincing.

[phillybri]

10. Awesome post...

:kick:

[StopTheMorans]

12. I'm with you completely

and let me add to those people who say they won't vote for anyone who voted for the war b/c you can't handle having the deaths of 500 soldiers and thousands of Iraqis on your conscience: if you don't vote for the dem nominee and Shrub gets another 4, his environmental policies alone (Clear Skies) will kill more people of asthma in the next decade then this war will, and that's not even mentioning what his education policies will do to the lower and middle classes, what his social security privatization will do to many people who have worked their whole lives and depend upon that system when they retire, etc...

Suck it up, we're dealing with reality, and this is the most important election of our lifetimes, end of story.

on edit: Dean supporter up until 3 weeks before IA (contributed multiple times to his campaign, saw him on numerous occasions), when he lost my support b/c of repeated gaffes and whining about unfair treatment as front-runner.

[eileen_d]

18. Since this hasn't been locked yet

thanks for the nice rant. All votes are equal, but the herculean effort required to woo some voters is not always worth it.

[jeter]

22. There is no reason on earth that this post should get locked...

...I'm addressing a specific group (minority) supporting a certain candidate.

No one can deny that there are posts here on DU by these supporters advocating bolting the Democratic Party.

Why aren't those posts locked?

If those posts don't get locked then this one shouldn't get locked. After all, it is only a response to those original posts.

[eileen_d]

28. I don't know if it should or shouldn't be

I just thought it might be. I'll leave it to the mods. Believe me, I agree with the content of what you're saying.

[_NorCal_D_]

21. Thank you, I couldn't agree more.

Like you, I have grown incredibly weary of the blusterous minority that you are referring to.

[Marymarg]

23. Amen and amen

I heartily agree. Taking my ball and going home if it can't be my way is schoolyard behavior.

Yellow dog Democrat here. ANY Democrat is better than any Republican, especially GWB.

[Justice]

27. Think About This ---

Most people will come together to defeat Bush. There is a breaking news article talking about democrats being united against Bush. The turnouts for the primaries have been overwhelming. That is all positive.

We do have to give credit to all of the dem candidates for the parts they have and will play in this campaign season. Perhaps if people could remember a bit more of that - the contributions that all the candidates have made in bringing out issues, taking heat, etc, all of us would be more supportive and united on DU as the primaries continue.

[AP]

29. DLC never supported Edwards. He's anti-NAFTA. DLC didn't even invite

him to their summer soiree at which Dean and Kerry both gave presentations.

[redqueen]

31. Well isn't that interesting!

Thanks for that info... another reason Kucinich likes Edwards, I'm guessing. :)

[Dookus]

Couldn't agree more...

the funnier part is that a few months ago, these folk were absolutely horrible in their savaging of other candidates. Now that their guy is no longer the frontrunner, they act as if we have some obligation to woo them.

Sorry, I really don't care what petulant losers do with their votes. Stay home, vote third-party, I honestly don't care. Their numbers aren't big enough to be meaningful in any way.

[henslee]

32. Wrong about 1 thing - we should blame media and hold them accountable...

for their pattern of abuse, not just the one-sidedness or hatchet jobs like the Dean Scream mike stunt but for omissions, blackouts, distortions and even nunanced infractions which are perhaps most insidious, like accidently on purpose showing primary candidates in reverse order, though another is clearly ahead. It reeks.

But just like FLA/MI 2000 and the SCOTUS hijack, Democrats somehow don't do squat about it. Kerry will never touch it. Edwards, doubt it. Clark doubt it. Kucinich, maybe but would probably get iced first.

[abracadabra]

33. what makes you think he can win?

edited for typos

Did the corporate media convince you . Did you hear this is the only candidate that can beat "Gorge DubbleYou Boosh" ?
Where are the issues?
Where is the discussion of these issues?
This is turning out to be a horse race sponsored by a corporate obligated media.
Dean said he was going to break up the"big" media and they assasinated him by turning down the crowd volume.
Dirty trick--
Amature you say???
Dean is awsome and really did great as governor of Vermont .
It's about health care and services for ALL-not just the rich!!
Dean is WAY better that a snobby ass rich kid Yale Graduate who went to Viet Nam--Kerry is hooked into the same mess we are trying to free ourselves from!!

By the way the election doesn't matter anyway because no one has stopped the electronic voting.
The fix is in-
-Gorge DubbleYou Boosh will be in again because he is the best one for the billion dollar media industry.

Funny--How much power we have given these Media organizations?
They say jump and we jump!
They say wave a flag and we wave a flag!
The printed media is the only branch that even comes close to providing vital information for the citizens to make informed decisions.

This whole thing has just become Pop Star with Simon and Abdul !!.

We want to so be on the side of the "winner".
Want to know the REAL winner?
Wesley Clark
Check this out.
Clark, West Point with Honors,Rhodes Scholar Oxford Graduate,Viet Nam Vet---National Security?? talk about!!
And BRAINS? you don't get where he's gotten without them.
And no SILVER SPOON shoved up his butt like Kerry and Boosh !!

Clark would SMOKE Boosh any dy any time. He gets NO airply at all.
Four stars v. four letters(AWOL)

[deutsey]

38. OK

:evilgrin:

Actually, I was on my way out of the Dem Party back in 2002. Dean's campaign got me to stick around a little while longer, but, honestly, I came to the conclusion even when Dean was "flying high" that I just don't fit in with Party politics and organizing. I'm more at home with independent grassroots organizing.

I'll still vote Democratic until another viable alternative comes along, and will remain a small "d" democrat always. But I just have other things I feel called to do outside the Party.

[Edwards4President]

39. Nice post. Thanks.

The "it's Dean or nobody" arguments demonstrate that for many of those who claimed that it wasn't about the man but the message, it really WAS about the man and NOT the message.

[zoeyfong]

40. Nader's 2% sank Gore, if you'll recall, but your post makes it even easier

to sit out this election. And "other than the war, what's so great about dean?" Well I could tell you, but other than kerry's solicitation of murder, i don't care what is so great about *him.* You demonstrate exactly what is wrong with the both political parties. Winning has become the only thing that matters, principles be damned. Given that, maybe dems need to lose (again) before they decide to grow a backbone. It is not my country 'right or wrong,' and it's not my party 'right or wrong.'

[Skinner]

41. Locking

way inflammatory.