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HAGEL '08 Candicacy! Will Democrats GET SERIOUS about who they want for POTUS.

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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 01:49 PM
Original message
HAGEL '08 Candicacy! Will Democrats GET SERIOUS about who they want for POTUS.
Edited on Wed Nov-22-06 01:53 PM by Sensitivity
Sen. Hagel may enter the 2008 presidential race. Will decide in January.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,231257,00.html


Hagel is what is called a” qualified candidate.” He has a substantial record of rational policy positions. Over the last 4 years he has aggressively and repeatedly opposed his own party when he thought Bush wrong

http://tpmcafe.com/story/2005/11/15/16160/537

He opposed torture

He was one of the first to retract his IWR vote and declare Iraq a fiasco

He Insisted “Bush Can't Unilaterally Go Around FISA”

Hagel brings to the campaign extensive domestic and foreign policy experience, serially successful corporate executive experience, and real military combat valor (two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star).

The comparison to some of the candidates that we Dems are pushing -- Hillary, Obama, Edwards -is painful to the bone.

Democrats successive losses to dumbo may have convinced them that qualification for the role of “Leader of the free world” doesn’t really matter. But they may be wrong.

I really hope Hagel joining in the '08 race wakes up the Democrats from their preoccupation with “personality” candidacies.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Me too. 2008 is, IMO, going to be the year of the serious candidate
and as usually the Dem DC insiders are out of touch.
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David Dunham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hagel is a strong candidate. He will be the anti-Bush of the GOP.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. He's especially strong since
he owns so much of the voting machine company (ES&S) that he was the CEO of b efore he ran for Senator the first time, and on which he was elected with the most amazing of margins -- even among people (demographics) who'd never voted Republican before. Something like 82% over his opponent, IIRC.

This needs to be very open information if/when he gets serious about running.

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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hagel has the cred that McCain wishes he had.
Could be a tough candidate.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. This is what old Chuckie has been posturing and posing for in
every speech he's made, every news conference he's held.

Yeah, he'll probably be a tough strong repub candidate. He's got more cred than the pro-war pro-blivet cast of characters who have already said they're probably gonna run.

McCain, he's a pathetic joke. He's flipped and flopped so many times nobody knows what he stands for or which side he's on anymore. Hagel, he's been pretty consistent and has a lot of fan. But even Hagel's support of Pete Ricketts couldn't get that lying bald arrogant asswipe elected. So Hagel does have his limits.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Too bad for us. Anytime a serious Democratic candidate is mentioned...
he/she is/was labled a DINO around these parts.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Hagel's more conservative than many think.
Check out his voting record and ratings from various groups. He's 100% rated by the Dobson group as well as every religious right anti-choice anti-gay group you can name.

On foreign policy he may have an independent streak in teh right direction and yes it's nice he'll stand up to Bush, but this is not a moderate by any stretch. he's not horrible on budget issues, but hardly centrist there either.

Would he be less harmful than the total theo-nuts like Frist and Brownback? Probably - but not by a whole hell of a lot. We should be able to paint him, fairly easily and fairly accurately, as a very socially conservative and right wing candidate.

While I doubt Giuliani or McCain can survive a primary campaign (and I think Hagel could) I would be much more worried about them in the general campaign.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Agreed, Hagel is conservative. BUT a rational and QUALIFIED CONSERVATIVE
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. without detracting from your reply, what does it have to do with my post?
My point was clear - whenever there is a Democratic name mentioned of outstanding qualifications and a background people would actually vote for in red and blue state, he/she is labled a DINO on DU.
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. he'd be formidable in the general, but the extremists running the GOP won't let him win a primary.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That's my take, too.
He was too critical of the Maximum Leader....so he's a traitor. I'm betting that it'll be the Newtster or Romney.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. Hagel is more conservative than Rudy or Arnold and even McCain
Edited on Wed Nov-22-06 10:51 PM by Sensitivity
when it comes to social issues. He is just more consistently rational
and "anti-Dumbo" than some of the others.

McCain decided to go Pro-Dumbo, Hagel decided Anti-Dumbo.

Who know where the Pubs are now.
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. I can see myself voting for him, always respected him....nt
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. I wouldn't vote for him. But I can see most Independents going Hagel
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Relax. Have a glass of wine... Read a good novel..
We don't need to be in permanent campaign mode. There's a good 12 to 13 months before we need to start lining up for candidates for 2008. The only thing we can be absolutely sure of now is that the line-up will be entirely different a year from now. Perceived candidates 20-some months from an election rarely are true candidates on election day.

Things change. I cannot think of another time in my political life when things were more likely to change than this next year.

So, it's time for us to work on other things, like promoting our issues to the new Congress, or just relax and enjoy life a bit, or a bit of both. Myself, I'm campaigned out and will be needing some time away from the trail so that I can be refreshed and revitalized in 2008.

Let's not force the issue at this time. Let the Repukes do what they want. Let the more ambitious Dems cut their own throats 23 months out. We'll have others to consider by election day.

Ahhhhhh! Let me see. Where was I in this new novel? I'll take a refill on that Shiraz...
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. 12 months before "08 Primary campaign? Gues you are dialing in from London.
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Hagel is a conservative, but not an idealogue
He truly speaks his mind, whether or not it toes the party line. I have to respect that. Of course, I wouldn't vote for him, but he's one of just a handful of Republicans I have respect for.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Hagel is the kind of conservative Dems would want on their Party - rather than a Zell
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Maybe, but one thing is for sure.
It's too damned early for this. So much can and will change between now and a year from now that it is certain that the political landscape for the 2008 election will have changed multiple times. Many of the "preceived" candidates will be gone, and others will have taken their place. How many of the early declarers will still be in a race that clearly will not begin for months?

I'm having another glass of wine... Now where's my book..

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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. right. in mid-2003, only political geeks and Vermonters and LGBT folk knew Dean.
then he was the challenger. then he was the front-runner. then he was the target, and ooops, there he went.

in another 12 months, we still won't be much closer to knowing who the nominees are, though we will know for sure who's not running.

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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You state the facts.
Edited on Wed Nov-22-06 04:08 PM by longship
That's why some of these DU 2008 posts get to be so unrealistic. It's like people think that the election is tomorrow, or something.

2007 is going to be a rockin' and sockin' political year. There are going to be so many unpredicted events that the prognosticators are all going to be embarassed. All this screeching about 2008 is going to be just plain wrong.

I blame the media for this. They are the ones trumpetting 2008 this early. I'd like to slap a few of these people across the face, grab them by the shoulders and shake them, while screaming, "You complete idiot!!! What makes you think that the 2008 campaign has started this early?"

A few DUers could use that treatment, too.

Pshaw! Back to my book...
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. And in 1991, no one knew wo Bill Clinton was . . .
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. What is a "personality" candidacy
Are you refering to Bill Clinton and his two overwhelming electoral victories? Was he a "personality" candidacy?

If you think "likeability" or "personality" have nothing to do with getting people elected, I couldn't disagree more.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Bill Clinton had both personality and qualifications
Edited on Wed Nov-22-06 05:48 PM by Jai4WKC08
He was usually "the smartest guy in the room." He had some 10 years of executive experience as a state governor. He had interned with Senator Fulbright and gotten a great deal of exposure to foreign policy issues. Being extremely well read, he kept up with those issues over the years, and went out of his way to participate in international forums before he launched his presidential campaign. Even at that, foreign policy was a weakness for him -- not as important in 1992, but important enough to get him trouble almost right off the bat in Somalia.

George Bush, otoh, was a personality candidate. In 2000, he ran officially on being a "compassionate conservative" and unofficially as "the kind of guy you'd like to have a beer with." The idea was that his VP would bring in the experience and knowledge. There was never a question that he had little experience in government, none of it on the world stage, and a demonstrated lack of knowledge in the foreign policy arena, but that was ok because he was a good guy who would have lots of help from the grown-ups who had worded for daddy.

I agree with you that likeability and personality have a great deal indeed to getting elected. I would go further to say they are essential. But they aren't enough. We have to find candidates who have both personality and ability, like Clinton did. To get elected, but also to clean up the mess that the Bushies will leave behind them.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Looks like Clark fits the bill. He has charisma and foreign policy experience.
not to mention Military.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. Did Clinton clean up the mess Bush1 left behind or did he cover it up which allowed
Edited on Wed Nov-22-06 10:14 PM by blm
Bush2 to take power?

Democrats, the Truth Still Matters!
By Robert Parry
(First Posted May 11, 2006)

Editor's Note: With the Democratic victories in the House and Senate, there is finally the opportunity to demand answers from the Bush administration about important questions, ranging from Dick Cheney's secret energy policies to George W. Bush's Iraq War deceptions. But the Democrats are sure to be tempted to put the goal of "bipartisanship" ahead of the imperative for truth.

Democrats, being Democrats, always want to put governance, such as enacting legislation and building coalitions, ahead of oversight, which often involves confrontation and hard feelings. Democrats have a difficult time understanding why facts about past events matter when there are problems in the present and challenges in the future.

Given that proclivity, we are re-posting a story from last May that examined why President Bill Clinton and the last Democratic congressional majority (in 1993-94) shied away from a fight over key historical scandals from the Reagan-Bush-I years -- and the high price the Democrats paid for that decision:

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Reporting about a booklet issued by the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council, the Washington Post wrote, “these centrist Democrats … warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections.”

These Democrats also called on the party to reject its “non-interventionist left” wing, which opposed the Iraq War and which wants Bush held accountable for the deceptions that surrounded it.

“Many of us are disturbed by the calls for investigations or even impeachment as the defining vision for our party for what we would do if we get back into office,” said pollster Jeremy Rosner, calling such an approach backward-looking.

Yet, before Democrats endorse the DLC’s don’t-look-back advice, they might want to examine the consequences of Clinton’s decision in 1993-94 to help the Republicans sweep the Reagan-Bush scandals under the rug. Most of what Clinton hoped for – bipartisanship and support for his domestic policies – never materialized.

‘Politicized’ CIA

After winning Election 1992, Clinton also rebuffed appeals from members of the U.S. intelligence community to reverse the Reagan-Bush “politicization” of the CIA’s analytical division by rebuilding the ethos of objective analysis even when it goes against a President’s desires.

Instead, in another accommodating gesture, Clinton gave the CIA director’s job to right-wing Democrat, James Woolsey, who had close ties to the Reagan-Bush administration and especially to its neoconservatives.

One senior Democrat told me Clinton picked Woolsey as a reward to the neocon-leaning editors of the New Republic for backing Clinton in Election 1992.

“I told that the New Republic hadn’t brought them enough votes to win a single precinct,” the senior Democrat said. “But they kept saying that they owed this to the editors of the New Republic.”

During his tenure at the CIA, Woolsey did next to nothing to address the CIA’s “politicization” issue, intelligence analysts said. Woolsey also never gained Clinton’s confidence and – after several CIA scandals – was out of the job by January 1995.

At the time of that White House chat with Stuart Sender, Clinton thought that his see-no-evil approach toward the Reagan-Bush era would give him an edge in fulfilling his campaign promise to “focus like a laser beam” on the economy.

He was taking on other major domestic challenges, too, like cutting the federal deficit and pushing a national health insurance plan developed by First Lady Hillary Clinton.

So for Clinton, learning the truth about controversial deals between the Reagan-Bush crowd and the autocratic governments of Iraq and Iran just wasn’t on the White House radar screen. Clinton also wanted to grant President George H.W. Bush a gracious exit.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Unexpected Results

Clinton’s generosity to George H.W. Bush and the Republicans, of course, didn’t turn out as he had hoped. Instead of bipartisanship and reciprocity, he was confronted with eight years of unrelenting GOP hostility, attacks on both his programs and his personal reputation.

Later, as tensions grew in the Middle East, the American people and even U.S. policymakers were flying partially blind, denied anything close to the full truth about the history of clandestine relationships between the Reagan-Bush team and hostile nations in the Middle East.

Clinton’s failure to expose that real history also led indirectly to the restoration of Bush Family control of the White House in 2001. Despite George W. Bush’s inexperience as a national leader, he drew support from many Americans who remembered his father’s presidency fondly.

If the full story of George H.W. Bush’s role in secret deals with Iraq and Iran had ever been made public, the Bush Family’s reputation would have been damaged to such a degree that George W. Bush’s candidacy would not have been conceivable.

Not only did Clinton inadvertently clear the way for the Bush restoration, but the Right’s political ascendancy wiped away much of the Clinton legacy, including a balanced federal budget and progress on income inequality. A poorly informed American public also was easily misled on what to do about U.S. relations with Iraq and Iran.

In retrospect, Clinton’s tolerance of Reagan-Bush cover-ups was a lose-lose-lose – the public was denied information it needed to understand dangerous complexities in the Middle East, George W. Bush built his presidential ambitions on the nation’s fuzzy memories of his dad, and Republicans got to enact a conservative agenda.

Clinton’s approach also reflected a lack of appreciation for the importance of truth in a democratic Republic. If the American people are expected to do their part in making sure democracy works, they need to be given at least a chance of being an informed electorate.

Yet, Clinton – and now some pro-Iraq War Democrats – view truth as an expendable trade-off when measured against political tactics or government policies. In reality, accurate information about important events is the lifeblood of democracy.

Though sometimes the truth can hurt, Clinton and the Democrats should understand that covering up the truth can hurt even more. As Clinton’s folly with the Reagan-Bush scandals should have taught, the Democrats may hurt themselves worst of all when helping the Republicans cover up the truth.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.'

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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Clinton had a stellar record as a Professor, Attorney General and Governor
Edited on Wed Nov-22-06 08:46 PM by Sensitivity
Clinton seemed well qualified for seeking the Presidency in the post cold-war period.
And he certainly proved himself over time. More familiarity with Washington would have
prevented some of the failures of his admin and avoided the loss of the congress during
his tenure.

Clinton served as Attorney General of Arkansas plus nearly 12 years as the 50th and 52nd Governor of Arkansas. He established a record of innovation and achievement in social,
education and economic policy in the State.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hagel voted for the torture bill and did nothing to challenge Bush's signing
Edited on Wed Nov-22-06 05:40 PM by ProSense
statement attached to the McCain amendment!

He offers nothing but lip service, though welcomed for the media attention it gets. He is also a solid Christian Coalition voter:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2789311&mesg_id=2789513


Edited to add: He and McCain have the benefit of the media portraying them as moderate.
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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. I have to be honest I would consider voting for him over Hillary I am...
sick and tired of this Bush/Clinton dinesty in the Whitehouse plus I don't like Hillary all that much and do not think she's the best candidate for 08. She's OVERBLOWN by the media in my opinion.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Chuck Hagel thinks Nelson votes like Ted Kennedy too much
and thought Nelson was far too liberal for NE. So what do you like about his stances on choice, the environment, labor, GLBT, that would have you thinking about voting for him over Hillary?
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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. As a voter I don't care about a canidate's stance on abortion because...
As a President you don't have any say in the abortion issue unless your picking a Supreme Court nominee and even then a Justice isn't going to overturn the Roe V. Wade issue.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. If you aren't bothered that he is 100% against abortion,
there is still the environment, labor, healthcare, energy, wildlife, education etc. I'll admit I am looking quickly, but I am not seeing anything that looks very good... the ACLU give him a 36%, the NAACP 5%, American Wilderness Coalition 0%, League of Conservation Voters 5 percent, National Organization for Women 0%, AFL-CIO 14%, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America D+.

So what else makes Hagel's voting record better than Hillary's?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. I am serious. I have been, all along.
Hopefully, I won't get another candidate I don't want to elect shoved down my throat; then I can campaign with some enthusiasm.
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is where Clark would be a strong candidate.
Though he's not my top choice, he's near the top.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. The GOP got REAL SERIOUS with BUSH...Twice at THAT
The Pubs are known for their double talk...
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
36. Looks like the Corporate Media Paparazzi's "preoccupation...
...with 'personality' candidacies" to me.

:shrug:

NGU.


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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. Hagel is going nowhere fast
the base of the Republican party despises him. He is a poster boy for what they consider "RINO"s.

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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-23-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Like they despise Rudy and McCain just as MSM says!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-23-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. Hagel certainly could be the GOP dark horse...he should let McCain be...
Edited on Thu Nov-23-06 01:59 PM by zulchzulu
...the assumed front runner leading up to the primaries...because that is usually political poison.

If he doesn't veer too far right, he might embrace the GOP moderates that can't get their arms around McCain's tendency to de-maverick himself or Romney's Mormon stance. Also, with links to electronic voting machines (ESS), Hagel also has that as a "plus"...
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-23-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Damn! Hagel could advertize his control of the Black Box as a Plus to the Pubs
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-23-06 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. Communism is Dead-FYI
The term "leader of the free world" should die with it.

Hagel is acceptable. Wrong party, though.
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