ALL of our Democrats should be welcome in EVERY state...even the South.

[madfloridian]

Even the deepest of the red states in the South. I have been reading so much here lately about how only certain people are welcomed in the South. That is just spin, and it is time to stop it.

Our Democrats from northern states are every bit as good as decent, as moral as any of the people in the Democratic parties in the South.

There is a thread on this page with one post after the other pointing out that candidates from the South are more welcome than others in states like TX or TN. Why? Why do Southerners in those states, and others, frankly...think they are so superior as to get to decide who visits and campaigns there.

I am beginning more and more to like this idea of A New Map Out West. It was an article I referred to here.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/454

Add it all up, and Democrats hope a new day is dawning. "We intend to contest Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada as a unit next time in the presidential because we think we can win there," Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean told U.S. News. Dean's theory is that, with a combined total of 29 electoral votes, those four states would make it unnecessary for the Democrats to win Florida, with 27 electoral votes, which they have lost in the last two down-to-the-wire presidential elections. "Bill Clinton won every single one of those states at one time or another," Dean added."

Interesting article. I think we need to talk to everyone, but we need to get past regions who believe they can only have certain people come there.

Here's a new article about this issue, quoting Tom Schaller's view we don't need the South. Of course we need them, but when a senate candidate tells the party chairman on Imus that he is not religious or moral enough to come to TN...then we got problems. When people keep posting on Demcoratic forums how only Southern governors and generals can win...then we got problems.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/us/politics/21south.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

The South largely sat out the drama of the recent election, apparently confirming its reputation as the Democrats’ graveyard. An influential book published in October predicted as much, saying the party could safely avert its gaze from a region that could not be of help.

“They don’t need the South to win,” said Thomas F. Schaller, who wrote the book, “Whistling Past Dixie: How the Democrats Can Win Without the South,” and who teaches political science at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. “Why would Democrats go after the most rural, least unionized, most racially polarized, most evangelized region in the country?” As proof, Mr. Schaller has cited Representative Harold E. Ford Jr.’s losing Senate race in Tennessee.

We took 29 house seats without very many Southern wins. If the candidates had perhaps been more inclusive...there might have been more wins. Perhaps not so ideologically rigid.

Dean's plan did not cede the South, but it did not force Northerners on Southerners who did not want them. The party sent people to the states based on requests and other critieria. When Dean went to TX as he often has...he just goes and is welcomed.

But the plan is looking mostly westward for now. I am a Southerner, and I think we should welcome everyone. Southerners are not the only ones who know how to govern, and it is absolutely rude to the rest of the country to say or imply that.

[KingFlorez]

1. We've never even tried

People always say Northern Democrats aren't welcomed in the South, but the point is we don't know one way or another because it hasn't been tried. Areas of the country can't be overlooked.

[madfloridian]

2. They are getting money in the Southern states...Dean is trying there.

But when a major senate candidate like Ford goes on TV and says Dean is not welcome in TN....there are serious problems.

The efforts are being made, but even in Florida they are doing things the old way at state level. They ignore directives from the DNC and do their own thing.

[Clark2008]

25. Amen.

Kerry didn't campaign anywhere in the South - save North Carolina - WITH Edwards - and Arkansas - WITH Clark.

All a Democrat needs to know about campaigning in the South is the ask questions and LISTEN. Don't talk AT us, talk WITH us. Speak of populism: better wages, less burden for the middle class, good educations for all.

It's when they come down here and tell us to fix this and do that and take down a flag (that would have been gone 20 years ago if people had just ignored its existence) and be like the North - that's when we get stubborn and obstinate.

[blm]

29. Clinton actually LOST the south during his tenure - the targetted state strategy

the DNC developed after the 1994 takeover of congress, resulted in collapsed party infrastructures in the red and swing states. When I moved to SC in 2000, there was NO Dem headquarters in the entire county, even though Horry county was more coastal than southern,

I'm in NC now and the Dem headquarters struggled on a DAILY basis until Dean revamped the DNC strategy.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. One factor that many miss is

that many parts of the South are being invaded by people from other regions, and these "outsiders" are changing the voting demographic. There has been a large influx of retirees to Arkansas, attracted by the mild climate and low prices for homes. Nowadays, I hear as many Northern accents as Southern when I man the phones for my company.

[madfloridian]

4. I think it is only a matter of time before things change.

But right now from what I see and hear even in Central Florida makes me realize we have a way to go.

Dean said we need to go and talk to them and tell them who we are so the Republicans can't define us. But it will take a while.

[ulysses]

5. "ideologically rigid"?

Sorry, mad, but I'm not seeing the rigidity that lost us the south this year.

[madfloridian]

8. I live around it.

It will get better someday, but it will take a while.

[ulysses]

9. wait - southern rigidity or dem rigidity?

[madfloridian]

11. Southern...is what I referred to.

The candidates in some areas overplaying the stuff about gays and women's rights and abortions, and underplaying what we have in common.

I know that some of the bloggers are doing some great work on this. No matter how the centrists say they won so much, there are more real progressives there now. But enough of the centrists who vote with Republicans so often to tip the balance in the Senate.

[ulysses]

12. ok, my bad.

I misunderstood you. Thanks.

[madfloridian]

16. I think we are saying the same thing.

:hi:

[ulysses]

18. we are.

Brain cramp on my part notwithstanding. :)

[CarbonDate]

6. I don't necessarily think that we should give up on the south....

...but we shouldn't pay them any special mind, either. Georgia should just be another state in our 50 state strategy; no more, no less.

A victory in Ohio or a victory in both Arizona and Colorado would have given us the election in 2004. Point being, we don't need to go begging at the old Confederacy's door-step in order to win Presidential elections. Give them the same consideration as every other region.

Frankly, I think a lot of these small western states like Montana, Wyoming, and the Dakotas would be ready to swing our way any moment if they felt like they mattered to us. It doesn't take much, either. Three electoral votes here, five electoral votes there, and then suddenly we've got 270.

The distrust that the south has historically shown to candidates from the north is, frankly, offensive to me and I'm tired of trying to cater to it. Thank you for pointing this out. I would love it if the south would get on board with the rest of us, but we shouldn't sit around waiting for them anymore.

[ulysses]

7. agreed.

We've been tapdancing to Nixon's southern strategy for far too long. No, don't give up on the south - hey, I'm down here! - but don't suck up to it either. It only empowers the worst of us.

[madfloridian]

10. You put that well.

It is very serious problem. I think the media overplays some of it, but it is real.

[madfloridian]

13. This paragraph...

sort of shows what Dean has been saying...though we can't expect many Southern wins we need to start trying and talking. And the first step is for Democrats in the South to quit pandering to the right wing on issues and stand up for what they believe.

Dean's strategy IS including the South, but not dependent on it.

"But others warn that to abandon the South carries risks as well, paralleling those faced by Republicans who let themselves become dominated by Southern voices and ideology.

“The Republican mistake was to center the party too much in the South,” said Mr. Parent, of Louisiana State University. But “once the Democratic Party starts extricating itself from Dixie too much, it might move itself too far away from its center in Ohio and Pennsylvania.”

That is why going westward, but working the South at the same time is better. I never knew how bad it was here in this Southern Baptist dominated area until Bush came into office. I was a part of that religious culture all of my life, but it is different now since it was hijacked by the right.

[DaveinMD]

14. I keep hearing how the South didn't impact on this past November

But I'm fairly certain Virginia is a southern state. Its also a place we have a good chance of winning next time.

[madfloridian]

15. Yes, we did have some wins.

But not many. At least Dean is paying attention to the South, and the South must welcome him there or any other Northerner. That is how we win, with open minds.

[DaveinMD]

17. my point is

that there are a few southern states we can compete in. Virginia and North Carolina in addition to Florida. We didn't win seats everywhere. Dean mentions Nevada, but we did very poorly there this year. I think Virginia is the most important new target. That state is trending our way.

[bklyncowgirl]

19. Democrats should compete everywhere

I agree with the 50 state strategy. I also believe that if a candidate in a tight race is a little leery about campeigning with a national party leader, example Howard Dean, who he thinks will hurt him, that this should be respected and not taken as a slight.

My guess is that Howard Dean has a pretty thick skin and moreover is focused on doing whatever it takes to win.

Whatever works.

[madfloridian]

20. What makes the candidate "superior" to Dean or anyone else?

What makes the area "superior" to any other area. Why should any person in any state in a party be able to say that they are hurt by the presence of someone else?

That is playing into the red state spin of we have to be like them to win.

This really isn't about Dean, it is about the attitude in the South that only certain people are welcome. That only certain people are "worthy". I have seen it here in Florida. I saw it with Jim Davis, I see it at state level.

[Clark2008]

21. You're making it about Dean, though.

Dean knows where an appearance by him would help or hurt or make no difference at all. He also knows that just because he wouldn't be welcomed with open arms in one state doesn't mean that an infrastructure shouldn't be funded. He's tough - he can handle that rejection and still see the need to spend some dough.

And, maybe Northerners should stop accusing all Southerners of being dumb or backward or toothless or sister-marrying, too. That might help the divide and help Southerners "open their minds" to the fact that others COULD be welcomed - and MIGHT have something worthwhile to say.

Dean stepped in it during the primaries when he came out all preachy regarding Southern voting patterns. Now, what he said might have been true, but the WAY in which he said it wasn't appreciated by even Southern Dems. When one has been exposed to so many Northerners coming down here and trying to change how we do things - and abruptly, I might add - then it gets one's dander up. As it would if it were the other way around.

My husband is from up North - and he sees exactly what I am speaking to. He knows it's not appreciated to just show up on the front porch and ask to redecorate the living room. You have to marry into the family and move in first! :hi:

[madfloridian]

22. My hubby is from NJ originally. He doesn't like for people to talk down to him.

any more than I do.

He sees the same thing I see, and he detests it. A superiority.

No one in the south is any better than anyone else.

I don't care who you make this about, I am right...the South considers itself more special and it isn't.

[Clark2008]

23. No - you're not - in fact, your categorically WRONG.

You're absolutely INCORRECT - speaking of superiority complexes.

Many people from the North treat Southerners like red-headed step-children. For example, just look at the anti-Southern threads on this board: the Great Plains states are MUCH more red than the South, yet, according to some here, you'd think the South hadn't voted for a Democrat since Reconstruction - which is horseshit.

You see it in movies. You see it on television. You see it EVERYWHERE. It's the ONE bias that's OK to have - a bias against the South. We're not any more racist - even less so than a lot of places. We're not stupid, we just don't have to spend as much money to pay teachers and run school systems. We're not toothless or ignorant, either. We have dentists and some of the best thinkers have been from this region.

And, THAT, is how the Republicans muscled their way in down here, if the truth be known. They PRETENDED to side with our values and our attitudes. It's crap - and they still only care about their ultra-rich corporate friends - but they TALKED as though they sided with us rural voters.

What the Dems need to learn is that, if you come down here to talk AT us and not WITH us - we don't want what you're peddlin'.

[madfloridian]

24. I am from the South and you are talking to me like I'm not.

This whole thing is out of control really.

We have catered to the red states on gay rights, women's rights, and other issues until we are almost afraid to speak out on our real issues.

Now you two fuss at me all you want, but I am tired of the "only Southern governors and Southern generals can win" stuff.

If you want to make me the target so be it. But I am right. Some things are just right or wrong, whether one is in a red or blue or purple state.

We have lost our way caving in to the South.

[ClassWarrior]

28. Could you please provide links to...

..."the anti-Southern threads on this board" that you mentioned?

Cuz I've never seen a single one here.

NGU.

[madfloridian]

26. A kick because the same old crap is going on here today.

Someone posted a touchy subject from 03, which was meant from the heart.

Then many jumped on about how the South was offended.

Baloney. We don't get the right to be anymore offended than others.

And one Southern candidate in particular offended me greatly. He had no right.

I am sick and tired of the infighting here, and I am tired of the we must have southern generals and southern governors.

But this is the most offensive thing ever:

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/06/harold_ford_mis.html

June 09, 2005
Harold Ford Missed The "Get Behind Dean" Memo
Dems are rallying behind Dean, but Harold Ford of TN missed the memo. From
his appearance on Imus this morning:

June 9, 2005
Imus: "On another note here, speaking of the Democratic Party, which you
are a member of, how's Howard Dean working for you?"

Rep. Harold Ford Jr.: "(Laughing) I won't have him down so many times in
Tennessee on the campaign trail with me. He has made some comments as of
late that really speak to a lack of understanding I think, of the country, a
lack of understanding of faith and values. I'm a Democrat and I'm a God
fearing one. I grew up in church. Christianity is not reserved for white
males. I think perhaps Governor Dean sometimes gets a little excited at the
mouth, and says things that are simply not true. It may reach a point where
if he can't find a way to kind of control some of his comments, and temper
his comments, it may get to the point where the party may need to look
elsewhere for leadership, because he does not speak for me, and I know he
does not speak for a majority of Democrats and I dare say Republicans in my
home state. I know that other, even Senator Biden and others, have made some
stronger comments about him. I look forward to having a chance to sit with
him here in the next day or so. I think he's going to be here in Capitol
Hill a little later today to meet with us. I want to ask him directly. Can
he contain himself in a lot of ways, and what is his thought process in a
lot of these issues because it is not representative of where the party is."

Posted by Tom Maguire on June 09, 2005 |

[madfloridian]

30. I wonder if Ford actually asked Dean to resign. You think?

Carville did, hell, why not Ford as well. Tired of this stuff.

[ClassWarrior]

27. self-deleted

(misinterpreted the gist of this thread...)

NGU.