It's PRIMARY TIME!

[janx]

It really isn't, officially, but by the looks of GD Politics, it may as well be. How can we guard against some of the less savory experiences we experienced last time? I'm no board nanny, but I'd like to offer a few suggestions:


1. Try to avoid stereotyping groups of posters based on the candidate they're supporting. Even though we have no official candidates yet, the sniping has begun. THE POINT TO REMEMBER IS THAT IT IS INDIVIDUAL POSTERS, not "groups," who are responsible for their online behavior. There are some rude (or insecure) people behind the keyboards, and it doesn't matter which candidate they're supporting. Incivility is incivility, period.

2. Please, for the love of God, tone down the cheerleading threads. Whenever you post a thread on a public message board, people have the reasonable opportunity to disagree with you. This does not constitute an ATTACK. It just means that someone disagrees, and there's nothing wrong with that. Isn't reasonable discussion and debate what these message boards are for? It seems to me as if the echo chamber threads are a great waste of bandwidth anyway.

3. Primary Time is a festival for disruptors and freeper types who like to pose as political rivals to stir up the board. Read carefully and critically before reacting.

Any other suggestions? The fun's just beginning...(wince)... :+

[FrenchieCat]

1. Very helpful!

Thanks! :hi:

[janx]

5. You're welcome, Frenchie.

If you can think of any other suggestions, please post them here.

[mike_c]

2. might I add-- discuss the candidates, not one another....

All too often the response to criticism of someone's favorite candidate is "you don't know what you're talking about" or worse. That is not a rebuttal, it's a personal attack, it's uncivil, and it sucks. If you don't like what someone has to say about a candidate counter it with evidence, not with ad hominum nastiness.

[janx]

6. Good one!

Cyberspace is so impersonal. Sometimes it's easy to lash out illogically and forget that there are real people sitting in their homes or offices.

[More Than A Feeling]

3. Focus more on celebrating your candidate than tearing other's down

Also try to remember that the person you are arguing with most likely will support your candidate should he/she win the nomination. Try not to burn that bridge.

[Ignacio Upton]

4. About #3

The Freepers will be having their own civil war while we are duking it out over here, so I won't expect to see as many of them as there might have been in 2003-2004.

[janx]

7. We can only hope...

It was really bad last time.

[David Zephyr]

8. Nice and constructive comments.

I know I was all daggers for Dean in 2004, but for me the war was such a burning issue.

I see us all being more united and HOPEFUL this time around.

November 7th was a great day!

[janx]

9. The war still is a burning issue.

And yes, Nov. 7 was wonderful. Hope is powerful.

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. K&R Good work janx

You touched on some really important points in your OP

It's never to early to start reminding ourselves, with 2008 up next on the major election calender, that we aren't here to defeat each other in battles, rather to inform, discuss, debate, and frequently disagree without forgetting that in the bigger picture we are mostly all on the same side here.

[janx]

11. Thank you.

:hi:
Disagreements are OK.

[janx]

12. Shameless kick

[AtomicKitten]

13. allow me!

You are a mensch calling for civility and order during the primaries. I certainly support that notion.

[janx]

15. Thank you for the compliment!

And that mouse still cracks me up.

[RoyGBiv]

14. My suggestion ...

Wait until you have real, declared candidates to argue about.

Nothing you do or say on DU right now really means much with respect to expected candidates.

And, it's been brought up before, but I'll do so again. Open up your recent history texts and look at where Bill Clinton was at this point prior to his election. Those talking about who *will* be the candidate haven't a single clue what they're talking about. They're just cheerleading, which is fine, but as you say, it comes across better toned down a bit.

[janx]

16. Speculation is always rampant at DU.

Your point is well taken.

[RoyGBiv]

17. It's rampant everywhere ...

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It allows us an opportunity to work through what our individual desires as voters are. I talk politics constantly, who I like, don't like, what positions I support, don't support ... and all manner of subjects in between.

But speculation only goes so far. Pardon me (once again) for bringing this up (and with a note that the time periods are not in any way directly comparable) but no one, not even the perpetual long-shot bettor, would have predicted Lincoln's nomination, much less his victory in the general election. Two years prior, such a person would have been run out of town on a rail as an idiot. It's different today, but in substance not all that much different.

Support who you want, now ... that's fine. I have my own ideas on who would make a good candidate. But, as the OP suggested, digging in and declaring yourself correct against all other suggestions is madness and leads to nothing but hard feelings personally and ultimately a more difficult road for the eventual candidate.

The primary wars will be what they will be. We'll have people get so pissed off they leave a parting shot as they wander off to some other place to voice their opinions. It can't be helped because the burning passions of some people hold no quarter. The ironic thing is that I find such discussions, heated though they are, quite instructive, not because it tells me much about the candidate him or herself, but because how a prospective voter views a candidate tells me a lot about how that candidate will play in the general election where the ardent fans aren't the major factor.

[janx]

18. I don't support anybody now, because nobody's running.

But the media will keep speculating, and people here will follow suit.

OH!

That reminds me of another suggestion--careful analysis of media reports. Many DUers lose the ability of critical thought when it comes to the media before and during the primaries. Gossip columns, right wing sources, etc. become perfectly believable somehow. The cable channels are shameless is their quest for ratings and will behave very badly during election season.

[RoyGBiv]

19. Totally agreed ...

And don't get me started on how people follow the media and parrot it fully ... while at the same time denouncing the media as worthless.

It's, to be kind, irritating.

[jgraz]

20. Qué & Arrrrr

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Piratey,_vector_version.svg/180px-Piratey,_vector_version.svg.png

[JNelson6563]

21. One more suggestion

If we could contain the hero-worship, cheerleading and flaming that IS the primary season here at DU to GD Politics, and keep it from spilling over and mucking up GD, that would be nice.

It's like dog shit, better if you can train the dog to go in the same general area so you aren't stepping in shit when you walk through the yard.

Julie

[janx]

27. That is why GD Politics was created, after all.

;-) It was a good idea.

Could the mods get permission from Skinner to toss such threads back into GD Politics?

[wisteria]

22. I have a suggestion to improve #2.

Comments such as, he/she sucks, or he/she is toast, no way, go away,never in a million years,or simple out and out RW character assignations are not debatable comments. They add nothing to the thread other than to hurt others. I suggest, if you have nothing honestly constructive to say, then do not say anything at all.

I have been guilty of this in the past myself, but I have decided to try and hold back and not post anything non-constructive in a thread.
How about it?

[ripple]

24. You took the words right off of my keyboard

Constructive criticism is valuable and it allows us to learn things about candidates/election strategy that we might not have otherwise known about or considered.

I think it's important for all of us to keep in mind that a candidate we might not particularly care for now might very well wind up on the same ticket as the candidate we strongly support. By attacking the character of one candidate, we might unwittingly be contributing to the political demise of someone we really want to see elected.

Oh, and a :kick: and recommendation

[janx]

28. Agreed!

Ad homs have no place in reasonable discussion. At the same time though, questions about a candidate's position on something, or even disagreement with same, shouldn't be construed as an "attack."

[blm]

23. Don't forget that disruptors usually use a Che or clear leftist avatar to convince

us that they are definitely lefties.

During the general, some of the revealed trolls had passed themselves off as Kucinich lefties - most of the real Kucinich supporters could spot them easily. Same thing with other supporters group - When you see someone going OVERTHETOP and using your candidate to do it - call them on it.

[janx]

30. Yeah, they seem to love the Che avatar, or maybe even

some kind of rosta one. :rofl: (Excuse me while I light my spliff...)

[blm]

31. Their heroes prefer OxyContin, Viagra, cocaine and crystal meth. Is there an avatar

for that?

heh

[Rowdyboy]

25. In 2004 many posters here used right-wing sources/commentary to attack

good Democrats. ALWAYS check out the author of an attack on your chosen candidate. I don't mind you attacking my candidate, just don't use the far-right columnists to justify your argument.

[janx]

29. Yep. See #18.

How well I remember...

[ripple]

26. Kick

:kick:

[Eurobabe]

32. How's bout troll spray for those with less than 100 posts?

Is it right to defend our candidate or should we hit the IGNORE X? Seems like the more we try to defend, the more of a circus the threads become, until they disintegrate into incivility. There are a couple of obnoxious candidate groupies who I admit to be less than civil with, because they strike me as KOOLAID drinkers. I'll try to be nice, but I can't promise.

For the disruptors: Be on NOTICE, I've Got my can locked and loaded.