"ACLU vs. Christmas": Please help me debunk this crap

[ProfessorPlum]

Just got this email from an ignorant friend.

If you are Pro ACLU, please do not read....but let me know.

Yes, Christmas cards. This is coming early (really early) so that you can get ready to include an important address to your list.

Read on........


What a GREAT idea!

Fun with the ACLU......
Want to have some fun this CHRISTMAS? Send the ACLU a CHRISTMAS CARD this year.

As they are working so very hard to get rid of the CHRISTMAS part of this holiday, we should all send them a nice, CHRISTIAN, card to brighten up their dark, sad, little world.

Make sure it says "Merry Christmas" on it

Here's the Address, just don't be rude or crude. (It's Not the Christian Way, you know!)


ACLU
125 Broad Street
18th Floor
New York, NY 10004

Two tons of Christmas cards would freeze their operations because they wouldn't know if any were regular mail containing contributions. So spend 39 cents and tell the ACLU to leave Christmas alone. Also tell them that there is no such thing as a "Holiday Tree". . . . It's a Christmas Tree even in the fields!!

And pass this on to your email lists. We really want to communicate with the ACLU! They really DESERVE us!!


Good Idea!!!!!!!! Be sure and print, "IN GOD WE TRUST" ON THE CARD, ALSO.

Now, I absolutely love the ACLU, and they have proven they really stand up for what they believe in, even helping defend people who hate them (Rush Limbaugh, as just one example).

I am even sure that they have worked hard to defend expressions of Christmas, as it is religious expression and would be part of their mandate under the establishment clause. I just don't have time to dig all those examples up right now, though I'm going to be looking.

Could anyone please give me a hand with this? There have to be a million examples of the ACLU working for things that even a Freeper would approve of. Does anyone have a handy list or some good links? (Or any good links about this bogus "war on Christmas" crap?) Thanks in advance.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. This is not worth mine nor anyone else's time.

The ACLU works to uphold the Constitution. Period.

Anyone who is against the ACLU is not only a complete moron, but they are against democracy.

[HappyWeasel]

2. lol...yeah

anyone who is against the ACLU should join Al-Qaeda.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

7. Perhaps not Al Qaeda, but they'd fit in with the Taliban.

I wouldn't call them terrorists, but I would call them fascists.

[HappyWeasel]

14. Fair enough.

Though seriously, if someone tried to silence you, no matter what you said, or who you are, they would defend you at the ACLU. I am considering a summer associate externship with them.

[ProfessorPlum]

3. that's an excellent, and most important, way to put it

should my reply be that succinct?

[Lerkfish]

4. more reply than they deserve, so yes.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. Absolutely.

The response I usually get is "But they go too far!"

To which I respond, "How, exactly, do you go too far in defending the document upon which our entire country is founded? How do you go too far to protect the basic civil liberties of the United States? Which of the amendments do you feel is unworthy of being protected?"

Then they get to put their ignorance on display. Usually, from there, they say something that reveals to me that this person is well beyond education and will need to have his/her rights abridged for them to change their mind.

[drm604]

5. Dude,

didn't you read the first sentence?

If you are Pro ACLU, please do not read....but let me know.

You weren't supposed to read it. You were just supposed to respond and let them know that you are the enemy! :sarcasm:

It never ceases to amaze me the crap that people send out in emails. That first sentence is hilarious. Are they building an enemies list or what? :crazy:

[moblsv]

6. enemies

they are just digging deep for enemies.

(see Hitler 1933)

[MissMillie]

9. I would just say....

that the ACLU loves freedom so much that they would be glad to see that you spent your own personal money to send a message of your own choosing to someone you care about. Thank goodness that the ACLU is out there protecting such freedoms.

[yellowcanine]

10. I am sure the ACLU folks will enjoy getting the cards. Everybody wins.

The wingnuts feel good about themselves and maybe it releases their hostility and keeps them from actually doing something destructive. The ACLU folks get Christmas cards. If nothing else, it will likely amuse them. Everybody wins.

[montieg]

13. And the Aclu gets return address to send out pleas to. Whoo-Hoo!!

[yellowcanine]

17. I doubt the wingnuts would actually put return addresses on. They are too paranoid for that. They

probably think the ACLU would try to retaliate somehow.

[QShok]

11. Fundies like the attention.

Ya know if every city/county/state promoted every religion equally there wouldn't be a problem. This is the one thing ACLU should leave alone because it just helps the fundies by drawing attention and sympathy.

Shok

[HappyWeasel]

16. Yeah....this would be an interesting idea

that means we would have to promote Satanism and since almost everyone thinks Satanism is wrong, its best that we don't endorse religion at all. As an elected offical, I would work tireless hours making sure that the state and church maitain their autonomy while finding ways to promote religous expression without the tax payers dollars.

[still_one]

12. Here is your answer

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/aclucards.asp

[ProfessorPlum]

18. Thanks, excellent. nt

[still_one]

29. and even though the entire premise is bogus, the most important point is

Above all, perhaps one might consider wheter engaging in deliberate deception and attempting to sabotage an organization's operations over a chimera isn't the antithesis of what Christmas (and Christianity itself) is supposed to be about

[meegbear]

15. Two tons of Christmas cards would freeze their operations?

What do they think, that there's only like 3 people who work there? I'm willing to wager they have a mail staff that will go through the "chaffe" and process the nice cards, the donations and the death threats.

I checked www.breakthechain.org and there was nothing there about it. You may want to submit it to them so they have it listed.

[HappyWeasel]

19. Well, if I was the ACLU...I would write thank you cards...just as a token of good will and to

undermind the anti-american agenda of why they were sent in the first place.

[Irishonly]

20. The email has been going around since last summer

I usually send them the snopes site where it tells them it will not do a thing. At the time I was receiving this piece of crap I was also sending them articles about the ACLU taking a case in Des Moines, Iowa. In the 60's the ACLU represented a few students who wanted to wear black arm bands and won. Now they are representing a couple of students who wore anti abortion t-shirts to school. The ACLU is saying that by the school sending them home, they violated rights and their right to free speech. Then I closed with a little sarcastic line that wasn't is something that the ACLU could represent both spectrums. BTW, I don't think it changed anyone's mind but it did cut down on the stupid neocon stuff I got in my in box.

[jdadd]

21. Duplicate post see 12 above

[ProfessorPlum]

23. No, I liked having that response written out here as well

It's a good one.

[jdadd]

35. Here it is again....

I recieved this E-Mail in October from a fundie aquaintance...I copied and pasted my response to him from snopes.

Must have worked...I havent heard from him since


http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/aclucards.asp

This piece first began circulating at the tail end of 2005, during the so-called "War on Christmas" controversy over (among other things) some businesses' eschewing use of the phrase "Merry Christmas" in favor of "Happy Holidays" (or some other non-Christmas-specific wording). It resurfaced again in August 2006, well ahead of that year's holiday season.

As a call to action, the scheme this article proposes (i.e., flooding the ACLU with Christmas cards) has several serious flaws:
It is based on the erroneous assumption that the ACLU engaged in litigation and related tactics to pressure businesses and other entities into dropping the use of the word "Christmas" in favor of non-religious references during the holiday season. This was not the case. Some manufacturers and retailers opted in 2005 (and earlier years) to use religiously-neutral wording in describing their goods and services during the holiday season that runs from November to January, but they did so because they felt such a move would appeal to a broader customer base, not because they were urged or pressured into doing so by the ACLU.
The ACLU headquarters on Broad Street in New York is quite well-staffed, and they could easily divert resources to temporary Christmas-card opening duty in the mailroom for a few weeks without "freezing their operations" in the process.
Private, unsolicited contributions sent by U.S. Mail constitute a relatively small portion of the ACLU's operating budget, and most of those are sent through local affiliate offices, not through the main office in New York. Therefore, if a temporary spate of Christmas cards really threatened to interfere with their operations, the Broad Street office could simply throw the cards away unopened without fear that they were losing a significant amount of financial contributions as a result.


Above all, perhaps, one might consider whether engaging in deliberate deception and attempting to sabotage an organization's operations over a chimera isn't the antithesis of what Christmas (and Christianity itself) is supposed to be about.

[susannej]

22. Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings

I don't have the sort of list you request but, like you, am
interested in finding similar information.  I'm an evangelical
Christian who, for ten years, dated a man of Jewish faith.  I
became sensitized to all sorts of exclusionary practices in
our culture.  My own solution is that we need to become
"bi-lingual."  By that I mean when we're in public
settings, out of sensitivity and respect for families who
practice a religious tradition other than Christianity, we can
greet them with "happy holiday" wishes.  When we
know for sure that we're in the company of families in the
Christian faith, we can wish them a "Merry
Christmas."  That is just plain common sense. Recall that
in airports and many other public places today there are signs
that include the same message in three to four languages.  In
public settings, why not have signs that have a range of
greetings, including "Happy Hanukka," "Happy
Holidays,"  "seasons Greeting," "merry
Christmas" and whatever persons who celebrate Kwanzaa say
to one another.

[wtmusic]

24. Ah yes...DEBUNK this crap...there IS NO WAR ON CHRISTMAS

Excellent comrade. ;-)

[madmom]

25. here's some interesting fun facts about "christmas trees" you can throw

at them....so basically what they are doing is carrying on a pagan tradition.





The exact origin of the Christmas tree seems under debate, but it is safe to say that this symbol evolved from Pagan tradition.

The Norse pagans and Celtic Druids revered evergreens as manifestations of deity because they did not "die" from year to year but stayed green and alive when other plants appeared dead and bare. The trees represented everlasting life and hope for the return of spring.

The druids decorated their trees with symbols of prosperity -- a fruitful harvest, coins for wealth and various charms such as those for love or fertility. Scandinavian Pagans are thought to be the first to bring their decorated trees indoors as this provided a warm and welcoming environment for the native fairy folk and tree elementals to join in the festivities. The Saxons, a Germanic pagan tribe, were the first to place lights on the their trees in the form of candles. Ancient Romans decorated their homes with greens at the Festival of Saturnalia, their New Year and exchanged evergreen branches with friends as a sign of good luck.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

26. The entire holiday is ripped off from Pagans.

It's certainly not limited at all to the tree. The History Channel did a pretty good job last year with their special on this, which will probably be aired again this year.

[madmom]

34. I did know that, but since they specifically mention the trees, I

thought that might make them cringe a little:evilgrin:

[Arkana]

27. Why waste your time?

They don't hear anything except what their Faux lords and masters tell them "RAAAAWWWKKK! Liberals hate Christmas! ACLU hates Christmas! RAAAAAAAWWWWWKKK!!"

[Quantess]

39. I bet, .....SOMEWHERE...

a freeper has taught their parrot to say that!:rofl:

[NYCGirl]

28. "How the ACLU Didn't Steal Christmas" (SEND 'EM THIS LINK from the ACLU):

http://www.aclu.org/religion/gen/22324res20051207.html

Of course, there is no "Merry Christmas" lawsuit, nor is there any ACLU litigation about U.S. currency, military chaplains, etc. But the facts are not important to these groups, because their real message is this: By protecting the freedom of Muslims, Jews, and other non-Christians through preventing government entanglement with religion, the ACLU is somehow infringing on the rights of those with majority religious beliefs.

In truth, it is these website Christians who are taking the Christ out of the season. Nowhere in the Sermon on the Mount did Jesus Christ ask that we celebrate His birth with narrow-mindedness and intolerance, especially for those who are already marginalized and persecuted. Instead, the New Testament—like the Torah and the Koran and countless other sacred texts—commands us to love our neighbor, and to comfort the sick and the imprisoned.

That's what the ACLU does. We live in a country filled with people who are sick and disabled, people who are imprisoned, and people who hunger and thirst for justice. Those people come to our Indiana offices for help, at a rate of several hundred a week, usually because they have nowhere else to turn. The least of our brothers and sisters sure aren't getting any help from the Alliance Defense Fund or WorldNet Daily. So, as often as we can, ACLU secures justice for those folks who Jesus worried for the most.

As part of our justice mission, we work hard to protect the rights of free religious expression for all people, including Christians. For example, we recently defended the First Amendment rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets in southern Indiana. The ACLU intervened on behalf of a Christian valedictorian in a Michigan high school, which agreed to stop censoring religious yearbook entries, and supported the rights of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at their school.

[trof]

30. Read what snopes says about this. It's pretty good.

[trof]

31. Here's link:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/aclucards.asp

[underpants]

32. I sure hope ACLU can beat USC on Saturday

That could open the door for Florida.

[trof]

33. Yeah. Go Bruins.

Or something.
;-)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

36. I think the AFSCME should be in the title game.

They're definitely the best 1 loss team out there. :D

[Quantess]

37. They can waste their stamps any way they want.

The ACLU won't give a fig. The ACLU has way too much self confidence to be ruffled by cards addressed to them that say "merry christmas".

[heidiho]

38. Send Happy Holiday cards to fundie organizations

Why don't we send that e-mail around. I received this e-mail and wanted to reply by sending a bag of poop to the person who sent it to me but, because I am a good Christian liberal person, I did not.

They are all just still SORE LOSERMEN!