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Why On Earth Would Jim Webb Be Nice to George W. Bush?

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Bob Geiger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 02:44 PM
Original message
Why On Earth Would Jim Webb Be Nice to George W. Bush?
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 02:55 PM by Bob Geiger


When my small son watches cartoons, the characters are often imbued with a magical ability to get beaten senseless or even shot and then be in unharmed, pristine condition in the very next scene. Such is the way that Chickenhawks like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and George F. Will look at the world.

They've never seen war up close and personal, so they have no idea that it's scary, serious business.

So it's no wonder that Will was so aghast at the minor dustup that occurred recently when Bush asked Democratic Senator-elect Jim Webb how his son is doing while serving in the U.S. Marines in Iraq. According to the Washington Post, the incident, which took place at a White House reception, went something like this:
"How's your boy?" Bush asked, referring to Webb's son, a Marine serving in Iraq.

"I'd like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President," Webb responded, echoing a campaign theme.

"That's not what I asked you," Bush said. "How's your boy?"

"That's between me and my boy, Mr. President," Webb said coldly, ending the conversation on the State Floor of the East Wing of the White House.
Webb had earlier declined the opportunity to stand in a receiving line for Bush and have his picture taken with the president.

"I'm not particularly interested in having a picture of me and George W. Bush on my wall," said Webb after the encounter.



So Will, who is, of course, a Chickenhawk like most of the Bush administration, writes a column taking Webb to task as a "boor" and showing that, like most of his hypocritical brethren -- they're all for war, but for God's sake don't ask them to fight in one -- have no idea what might make we Veterans react the way we sometimes do.

To Bush, the disastrous war he has pursued in Iraq is no more tangible than my little boy watching cartoons or any young child playing with plastic soldiers -- it's not real and the reality of it is damn sure lost on him. Similarly, to someone like Will, who has never served in the military or experienced combat, this is all just about politics and, no matter what Bush has effectively done to Webb's family, the new freshman Senator from Virginia should just smile and enjoy some backslapping with the president.

In a column called Already Too Busy for Civility, Will rips into Webb, calling him a "pompous poseur and an abuser of the English language before actually becoming a senator."

An excerpt:
Webb certainly has conveyed what he is: a boor. Never mind the patent disrespect for the presidency. Webb's more gross offense was calculated rudeness toward another human being -- one who, disregarding many hard things Webb had said about him during the campaign, asked a civil and caring question, as one parent to another. When -- if ever -- Webb grows weary of admiring his new grandeur as a "leader" who carefully calibrates the "symbolic things" he does to convey messages, he might consider this: In a republic, people decline to be led by leaders who are insufferably full of themselves.

Even before his studied truculence in response to the president's hospitality, Webb was going out of his way to make waves. A week after the election, he published a column in the Wall Street Journal that began this way:

"The most important -- and unfortunately the least debated -- issue in politics today is our society's steady drift toward a class-based system, the likes of which we have not seen since the 19th century. America's top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years. It is not unfair to say that they are literally living in a different country."
Gee, and I thought Webb's column was pretty damn good.

I have two main comments for Will -- who truly is a "pompous poseur."

One is that George W. Bush himself has shown the most "patent disrespect for the presidency" in the shady method by which he illegitimately gained the office and everything he has done since. For all the carping from right-wingers about what Bill Clinton did to the prestige of the office with the Lewinsky affair, Bush has stained it in ways that make Clinton look like Lincoln.

And why the hell, when asked a question like that, should Webb show an ounce of civility to Bush? Webb's son is in harm's way every day because of a war that Bush lied the country into and that his administration has screwed up every step of the way. The difference between men like Webb and boys like Bush and Will is that Virginia's Senator-elect is a highly-decorated combat Veteran who has seen how violent, unpredictable and unforgiving battle can be.

So Jim Webb is suddenly having the man whose actions may cause his son to come home in a coffin, in his face asking how his boy is doing? I'm impressed that Webb didn’t do what he later said he felt like doing: Sock Bush right in the nose.

And one more note for Chickenhawk Will.

You can stow that garbage about Bush asking "… a civil and caring question, as one parent to another." What should be easy enough for even a Republican to understand is that one parent has a child facing death in Iraq every day, while the man who has caused all of this, keeps his kids closer to Cancun and Aspen than Baghdad.

Webb should have asked Bush how Jenna and Barbara are doing -- and when they're heading to Iraq.

You can read more from Bob at BobGeiger.com.

Update: The graphic used above to depict George Will is from the Deck of Republican Chickenhawks, which you can find here. The deck of cards has all the well-known Republican Chickenhawks, the conflict they avoided and why they're so damn hypocritical -- great stocking-stuffers for the holiday season!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because he accepted an invitation to the White House?
I agree with Webb all the way, but if he didn't want to meet up with the P, then perhaps the White House wasn't the place to be.

That said, I wish he had asked the P what the twins were up to.

The president is rude, short-tempered and boorish. Any host with an ounce of tact would have responded to Webb with "I, too, look forward to when they'll all be able to come home."
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I don't think he had much choice but to attend.
According to the WaPo, it was a reception for "freshman" Congresspersons, rather than a personal invitation to dinner. This sounds to me like one of those work events where your attendance is expected, not a fun invitation that you should decline if you don't want to go. Refusing to attend, with some big public statement of principle, might be seen as a much bigger affront, so he probably thought the best thing to do was to go and be polite. According also to the WaPo story, Webb tried to avoid Bush most of the evening but was unsuccessful. Bush's comments were not reception-level chatter; they were insensitive at best. So I am not sure what Geiger meant by "nice" but at least IMHO, I thought Webb's behavior was professionally appropriate in response to very inappropriate behavior from Bush.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good column, especially the last line
I've heard that Bush asked his question in a sneering and pompous manner, actually showing disrespect to Webb and to his son. From what I've seen of comments about the Will column, most everyone agrees with what this fellow is saying. Perhaps it means the days of chickenhawk supremacy are numbered.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. I actually find it rather refreshing
I'm glad that Webb is speaking his mind, and not hiding behind some phony "lets all just get along and be civil" mask.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. I sent George "Neo-Con BOOTLICKER Will an email
a bit earlier today. Bet he doesn't bother to read it.

As someone else said, Will is a prig.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Perhaps in the real world you don't have to like people
but you should get along with them or at least be decent to them even if they are not and especially if they are in positions of authority. Otherwise, you simply avoid them. We have all had bosses or coworkers or relatives like that and you just have to suck it up. When we try and out-Republican the Republicans or act as poorly or boorish as they are it does not shed a good light on us. Democrats can have some class.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. more than 90% of the hundreds of WaPo.com commenters disagree with you
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 06:06 PM by spooky3
They did not see Webb's behavior as problematic--he tried to avoid interacting with Bush, which is the polite thing to do when you must attend an event like that but want to avoid an unnecessary confrontation. But Bush, ever the bully frat boy, had to go seek him out. Now, look very carefully at what Bush said first, and how he responded to Webb's comments, and think about how you would have reacted had you been in Webb's shoes, with a son in Iraq. There is nothing boorish about being assertive to a bully, and if you are in a workplace with one, you know that you cannot allow bullying behavior to take place--particularly when it is NOT your boss or someone who can fire you, but in fact someone over whom you have oversight authority. George Will should have consulted with Miss Manners before attempting to instruct people on the appropriate reactions to someone who is behaving with shocking insensitivity.

Many of the WaPo.com commenters have provided more details about what else is wrong with this picture, so I won't repeat them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/comments/display?contentID=AR2006112901267
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Well, I must say that I do not care if 100% of the commentators disagree with me.
I was stating my opinion which one of the few things that belongs to me. We are not disputing if the earth is flat or round. I didn't put my finger to the wind or check to see what everybody else said before giving my opinion. I didn't check to see if I agree with the majority before giving my opinion. So regardless of the number of commentators and what they may say, I'll stand by my opinion because I do not generally see anything wrong with it.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Elo the fact is that two weeks ago Webb's son's tank came under fire.
He lost two comrades in arms. The bully frat boy was flippant in his question; much like he is flippant when he calls people by their nick names.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. No one said you had to. But if I were in your position and
I read those comments, given how many legitimate points were raised and how many people held opposing views, I would certainly be considering whether they raised any points that might cause me to rethink my views.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. OK, I give up-why?
Actually, I wanted to reply to commend you on an excellent post. Anything more from me would simply be a needless addition.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. "In a republic, people decline to be led by leaders who are insufferably full of themselves."
:spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :cry:
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'd say Bush started the rudeness
"That's not what I asked you," Bush said. "How's your boy?"

I don't give a shit what you asked, Mr. Bush, Webb explained how his son is. He'd be a helluva lot better if he were at home.

I am so tired of Bush's frat boy rudeness and assumed supremacy. It only proves what a tiny little boy he truly is.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-02-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Exactly
If * was not expecting an honest answer, he shouldn't have asked. And he definitely should not have started the next sentence with "that's not what I asked you." *He* was the one being boorish and rude. What a surprise.
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carnie_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. George Will
should stick to writing about baseball
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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. he doesn't really know a lot about baseball either
He just thinks he does.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. Geiger, you're good.
--IMM
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sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good for Jim Webb
The frat-boy-in-chief should expect no friendly gestures or civility when he has placed the life Webb's son at jeopardy and has the blood of thousands of our troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his hands. You can go to :evilfrown: George Will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. You know, the righties made a hero out of that guy whose son was dragged
through the streets of Mogadishu in Bush41's legacy gift to Clinton ... he chewed out Clinton (I bet he would claim that 9/11 was Clinton's fault, despite being much later in Bush43's reign than his son's death was into Clinton's Presidency), and Clinton handled it with respect ...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. Props to Senator Jim Webb
for not suffering arrogant fools.

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Chimp is still smarting that he went to
VA to campaign for George Allen and it made no difference. Guys like chimp are vindictive bastards. He couldn't contain himself. He had to seek Webb out and try to stick it to him. Webb showed remarkable restraint.
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kdpeters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-02-06 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
21. Love George Will. Show true Republican colors. Snobbish, effete, elitists with nothing
Warped sense of manners.

Democratic senator-elect from Virginia, has become a pompous poseur and an abuser of the English language before actually becoming a senator.

This is what they REALLY think of Southern working folk: uneducated boors unwelcome in the exalted domains of privilege and power. These effete, spoiled school-marms think that birth into wealth and a rrraaahhhhttthher fine education is proof of superiority.

George, it's not to late to develop some character, not even for you. You're invited to the farm to toughen up and understand what real work is. A couple of weeks trudging through ankle deep cow shit to milk 450 head of cattle twice a day will cure those airs but good. You can pay for the therapy by tutoring some of the local children no better than you, but just born to different parents. Whaddaya say, George?


I always thought George Will was supposed to the of the more deliberative and rational conservatives complementing the crazies. Attacking grammar, diction, and style to avoid answering the issues? Unspecified charges of rudeness as if it is obvious? Its a cop out when you got nothing. It's childish. It's an implicit concession of defeat.

A host doesn't expect to be the honoree and center of attention. It's the other way around. An honored guest is under no obligation to receive in line or pose for a cheesy photo. If Bush wanted to have his picture taken with Webb so badly, he should have just said so. Webb was quite the gentleman in the face of prying personal questions. The boor was the oaf who didn't get a clue the first time his question was avoided. He asked a soldier's father about his son in combat when he didn't even care one whit about the father he was asking. What a disgusting pig. He soils the presidency. He deserves no respect.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-02-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. Jim Webb kicks ass.
And I bought my little brother a deck of those cards for his birthday last year! :thumbsup:
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-02-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. Poindexter Will is also jealous of Webb's book sales
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