A Plan for Iraq? Hillary Clinton vs George W. Bush. Who Will Be Last to Have One?

[David Zephyr]

Now that even the Baker-Hamilton Commission has weighed in recommending that the U.S. begin pulling our troops out of Iraq, it is becoming painfully clear that Hillary Clinton and George W. Bush might indeed be the last two Americans who think that we should be keeping troops there.

They have both gone out of their way to publicly rebuke anyone who suggested that we should bring the troops home. Dubya accused those who did as wanting to "cut and run". And Hillary? Well, just ask Congressman John Murtha.

A plan for getting us out of Iraq: Joe Biden has a plan. John Murtha has a plan. John Kerry has a plan. Wes Clark has a plan.

So, who will be the last to call for our troops to leave Iraq with a plan to do so? Hillary or Dubya?

[wiley]

1. Baker-Hamilton Commission?

You've got the report?

[blm]

2. Whoa.....now THAT is one tough poll. You don't mess around, do you David?

I have to vote Dubya - because Bill Clinton will eventually find a way out for Hillary and pretty soon he'll have people believing it was her position all along.

[David Zephyr]

3. I was thinking this morning: Hillary' really missed the train Iraq.

Other than attacking other Democrats who have dared challenge the 'stay the course' failed strategy of Bush, Hillary never had a plan.

Now, anything she offers up will be way too little and way too late.

The biggest issue of our time and she sat on the sidelines carping at those who actually put forth a plan out of Iraq. I think this will be her biggest undoing.

Maybe Carville and Bill can cobble up something quick now so she can try to catch the caboose of the train that already left the station...when courage counted.

[blm]

10. Why stick your neck out while others are doing it on everything and taking the beatings

and the kicks? Ever see two guys get kicked around as much as Gore and Kerry? They matter because they never stop working for the common good even AS they're taking those hits.


Some people truly care about honest governance and worthwhile solutions to the most difficult matters and tirelessly work towards those goals, while others are too busy calculating the best route towards maximum personal benefits.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Hillary was quick at distancing herself from John Murtha when

he did a Walter Cronkite and said the war was over for all intends and purposes. Let's not forget either that Hillary voted against Kerry's troop withdrawal resolution, and she did not join Kerry and Feingold in the Alito filibuster.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Hillary is "evolving" on Iraq as she is on same sex marriage

I expect her to take a position on a controversial issue after everyone else has taken it.

It is so sad that as much as I hate Lieberman, at least he has the courage of his wrong-headed convictions. On that count, Loserman has Hillary beat!

[AtomicKitten]

5. she's trying to outflank the wingnuts on the right

I think it's a right of passage to prove her testosterone level, the perils of a female trying to president. Still that is no excuse. Her failed shot at the top job is one of the many casualties of BushCo foreign policy.

[IndianaGreen]

17. The first wingnut to her right is Lieberman

and the only difference between Lieberman and Hillary is a tactical one, not ideological.

[David Zephyr]

7. Well said and true: Lieberman stuck to his convictions.

I hadn't thought about that. Wow. At least he stuck to his "wrong-headed convictions" and didn't wait until it was safe to take a position.

"I expect her to take a position on a controversial issue after everyone else has taken it." Leave it to IG to crystallize the subject matter.

Thanks. :hi:

[Donna Zen]

11. Convict(ion) Lieberman

Lieberman voted for war, and stuck with it, because he believes in the PNAC philosophy. He honestly thought it would work. I'm sure he still does all evidence to the contrary. Asshole. But I agree with you.

A few months ago there's was a snip about Hillary's Iraq stance. Her pollster said that her advisers were conflicted about how she should vote. In the end they decided that voting YES put her in a better position. Repeat: put her in a better position. FWIW, she still conflates Iraq with the GWT and 911. That totally pisses me off. We've worked very hard to change that idiotic perception, and there she goes again.

[David Zephyr]

12. And is there any distinction between Hillary and Joe Lieberman's Iraq position?

Which, as agravating as this may come to us, there is no distinction whatsoever.

IG really cut through this all and pointed that out above. That's what's really maddening.

And, sadly, what you wrote is the painful truth: "FWIW, she still conflates Iraq with the GWT and 911."

[Nite Owl]

6. Hillary will be last

because she wants to make sure she doesn't offend the right and if W does it first the coast will be clear for her to take a position.

[KoKo]

8. Are you saying: "Hillary Goes WILD! Outflanks even the RW Repugs?

....anything to get elected...you suppose? :shrug:

[David Zephyr]

9. "Hillary Goes Wild".

You know, at this late point in the entire situation with Iraq, who knows what and where she will come down. Maybe she will go "wild" and to the right...at this late point she's irrelevant on the mess in Iraq, isn't she?

It's simply breathtaking that she sat it all out calculating when it would be safe to offer a plan and now, well...it's too late.

IndianaGreen astutely pointed out that at least Lieberman stuck to his unpopular convictions to "stay the course" in Iraq. I have to admit, Joe Lieberman commands more respect with me on the War in Iraq than either Bill or Hillary or James Carville do.

Who'd have ever thought that?

[KoKo]

14. I dunno...........I put Lieberman below Hillary...but they are both

probably cut from the "same cloth," if you understand what I mean. :shrug:

[leesa]

15. Who cares what either Hillary or Dubya say??? They are both bought and paid

for by the military-industrial indurty.

[blm]

16. I guess it doesn't matter what Hillary or W does, but what Bill Blinton and Bush1 do

behind closed doors. The charity business is a convenient ruse, though, I must admit.

[AJH032]

19. Prove it

Show us that Hillary has been "bought and paid for by the military industrial indurty." Don't just make some wild claim about her, that would be extremely unfair.

[SOS]

18. Hillary's against staying and against leaving.

"I do not think it is a smart strategy either for the president to continue with his open-ended commitment, nor do I think it is smart strategy to set a date certain." - June 2006

Can't argue with that!

[IndianaGreen]

21. Hillary's position on Iraq mirrors the one about Bill Clinton

She won't divorce him, but she won't have sex with him either.

[Red Knight]

20. She's wasting her time wooing the right

They will NEVER vote for her.

It's one thing to capture moderates(who oppose this mess anyway)but she seems to be trying to pick at the rightwing base. Big mistake.

All she'll do is make her primary race more expensive and closer than she wanted. She has nothing to win with the right.