Barack Obama can't win the presidency because he is black(True/False)

[Tiggeroshii]

[Ignacio Upton]

1. Honestly, it depends on how "black" he is

Someone like Sharpton or Jackson can't win, let alone someone who talks in ebonics. Obama has the name working against him (people will probably think it's a black power name, when in fact he's Kenyan) you will have someone people calling him an oreo because he's not "black" in the stereotypical sense, which is offensive and unfair to say.

[jefferson_dem]

8. So right. Sad...but true.

[beaconess]

39. Obama is actually "blacker" than most African-Americans

Most American blacks have a significant amount of White blood on both sides of our families - few of us can trace our ancestry directly back to a pure African.

Obama, on the other hand, is 50% pure African, which means he probably has more Black blood than most Black Americans.

For what it's worth . . .

[pnwmom]

43. Are you saying that most blacks' heritage is MORE than 50% white?

I didn't know that.

[beaconess]

45. Not necessarily 50%+ White, but less than 50% African

Most blacks have mixed heritage - African, White and Indian - on both sides of our families. Most of our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc., are mixed, so I think if you do a calculation, you will find that most Blacks have less than 50% pure African ancestry.

For example, on my mother's side, my great grandfather was White. His wife was the daughter of her master and a slave (and the slave was also part White). So my grandmother had much more White blood than Black. She married my grandfather, who also was of mixed race - both of his parents were part Black, part White and part Indian. So he, too, had less than 50% Black blood. My father's ancestors had similar lineage. The African blood in our family is generations removed, thanks largely to slave masters whose belief in the inferiority of Blacks didn't seem to hamper them in the least bit from regularly having sex with the Black women they owned.

Of course, in the real world, this doesn't matter since by all measures, they were Black and always saw themselves as such. But I raise this to point out that any argument that Obama isn't "Black enough" is pure bullshit since he probably has more Black/African blood in him than most Black Americans do.

"{I was born} with a flood of Negro blood, a grain of French, a bit of Dutch, but, thank God no 'Anglo-Saxon." --- W.E.B. DuBois

[pnwmom]

46. Interesting. Thanks for the info, Beaconess.

[Redstone]

2. True. Still too many racists in this country. Not pretty, but true.

Redstone

[amitten]

3. His name alone is too much for some 'Murkins.

Let alone the fact that he isn't white as the driven snow.

Black + Middle-Eastern-sounding name = not a safe bet in this country (yet).

[pnwmom]

47. John Sidney McCain, III sounds way too ELITIST for my ears.

[Sapphire Blue]

4. I was wondering how long it would take for one of these to show up.

[MADem]

25. Here's its fetid father, that came upon the scene just the other day

There are parts that require a pretty strong stomach, IMO. You wonder if you're in the right forum...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2831271

If the guy wants to run, he should run. He'll either do very well, do well enough to raise his profile, or do somewhere between so-so and poorly.

Last time I checked, being half African or having an unusual name weren't disqualifiers--and if Fat Denny Hastert and Cat Killer Frist got together to try and get the ball rolling to amend the Constitution, I think we'd have noticed. I say the more the merrier--the GOP is the party of stifling ideas, not us.

I find it amazing, though, how many frantic worrywarts there are on this board about a guy who hasn't even said he's IN yet...I have to wonder if there would be the same number of hand-wringers for other candidates. Say, for the sake of argument, Norm Mineta wanted to run. Would the "He's Asian, he can't win" crowd be at the fore booing him off the stage, or would the argument go more like "Naaah, he's been sittin' on his ass at Transportation for eons, he's outta the loop and too associated with the GOP..." I dunno, I think the latter argument, the EXPERIENCE argument, would hold greater sway...

[Sapphire Blue]

26. Yes, the virtual cross-burning.

I've said before that I sometimes have to check the address bar up above to make sure that my internets haven't been hijacked & sent to the netherworld of the 'other' site. I'm only half kidding.

[MADem]

30. I hear ya! NT

[caledesi]

32. Me too. nt

[rocktivity]

5. True--but fortunately, there's something he can do about it.

All he has to do is spend '08-'16 as VICE president. It will be very difficult to hold his race against him in '16 if he able to claim that no one is better qualified for the job!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Bullet1987]

7. Big Fat False...

...Though, the slander about his name is starting to pop up in some places. I think if Barack runs, he should come on one of these shows and nip that in the bud right away and make all the people who used it against him feel like idiots.

[Tiggeroshii]

9. If he has much of his father in him, it will most likely be a cinche

If you've read "Dreams of my Father," there's a great description of his dad dismantling a bigot that complained about "sitting by a ni**er".

[Hosnon]

6. All things being equal? Probably true. Barack having an undeniable edge over any other candidate?

Probably False.

[Thrill]

10. TRUE

Harsh Reality

[billbuckhead]

12. Why do we want to use a wedge issue on ourselves?

Let the people decide. Isn't that what elections are for?

Perhaps a bigger problem for Obama is that Illinois has't been a good launching pad for Dems in national races. From Steven Douglas to Carol Mosely Braun, it hasn't went well. Besides, if we need Illinois, then we aren't doing very well anyhow.

[Doctor_J]

11. This is where the electoral college helps us

TN, AL, SC, TX, MS will be out of play, but the blue and purple states will be happy to vote for him.

[Leftist78]

18. You're right

but those states will be out of play regardless. I personally think that subtle kind of racism that causes people to say they would vote for a black candidate when they actually wouldn't would be the thing that killed Obama. Incidentally, that form of racism is nearly as prevalent in the rest of the country as it is in the South. The South just has fewer qualms about letting it be known openly. I said back in '04 when Obama gave the speech at the DNC that he'd make a great candidate, but he'd have to wait till 2016 to even have a chance. He's more than welcome to try though, and I'd be more than happy to support him should he be the nominee (I haven't made up my mind about primary yet and I don't think I will until around 11/07)

[usregimechange]

13. We don't want or will get those votes anyway.

[don954]

15. bingo

anyone who is so bigited that color still is something that would sway their vote, isnt going to be a dem anyways.

[don954]

14. I think he can win BECAUSE he is black

yet acceptable to the main stream white population cause he is so charismatic. In the south, blacks make up 55% of the population, do you think very many will pass up the opportunity to vote in the 1st black president? I don't. It would take MASSIVE voting machine fraud to suppress that vote. Other ethnic minorities would tend to vote for him too, because once the white male stranglehold is broken in the USA, it opens the doors for all.

[Solo_in_MD]

22. He is a rare mix, richie rich kid with a privledged upbringing and black

it may be a winning combination. nfortunately, he is DLC like and not progressive. Still beats a repuke

[beaconess]

42. He's not a "richie rich kid with privileged background" and he's not DLC

He comes from a modest middle class background.

[pnwmom]

44. He wasn't rich. His father left his mother and returned to Africa

when Barack was a toddler. He lived with his single mother and his grandparents in an apartment.

[Solo_in_MD]

58. And attended one of the most expensive and prestigeous prep school in the country

(Punahou) wit the like of Steve Case and others.

[beaconess]

59. Yes - he went to Punahou - while his mother was on food stamps

His grandparents scraped together the money for him to attend. They were hardly well off - his grandfather was a salesman, his grandmother worked in a bank.

Your characterization of him as a "richie rich kid" is just flat out wrong.

[Solo_in_MD]

62. You have reading what the PR flacks put out

and not what those who knew him them have said...other by their bootstrap poeple like Steve Case of AOL and others.

[beaconess]

65. You're just flat out wrong

And you have no idea where I've gotten my information, since you know nothing about me.

[Solo_in_MD]

77. Perhaps

But then I also went to Punahou, on a need scholarship in that timeframe

[IntravenousDemilo]

16. In your conservative country? Sadly, true.

Racism is a polarizing thread that runs through almost every aspect of American history and culture.

[caledesi]

34. Not if the Dems and Indys come out in force and vote. nt

[KingFlorez]

53. The past election proves this country isn't that conservative

The country is centrist

[IntravenousDemilo]

54. Compared to what it has been lately, yes, it is centrist.

Compared to the political atmosphere in my country, the US is still very conservative. Hillary is to the right of Conservative PM Harper on many issues, and most Canadians consider Harper a loony right-winger, which is why he has only a tenuous minority government. "Centrist" in the States is considered "conservative" in Canada. "Liberal" in the States is "centrist" in Canada. And in the US, our liberals would be considered socialist, while our socialists are completely off your spectrum, though the majority of Canucks identify themselves as either liberal or socialist.

[KingFlorez]

17. And some people will vote against him in the primary because he's black

Simply because they think he can't win. That type of racism is far more capable of ruining his chances than people who would never vote for a black person. He can win if he is the nominee.

[anitar1]

19. We will have a Black President one day. I don't know if it will be

Obama, but I would wager that he will receive more votes than people think if he runs.I truly believe that the majority does not see color as an issue anymore.We will have a Black President one day.

[Spangle]

20. It's what we are TOLD to believe

When we believe it, it means we don't trust our neighbor.

Elections are epensive. Those who donate the money 'big time', know it's smarter to bet on a for sure win. Or at least one that has a shot. A lot goes into deciding to back a canidate in the early stages of the game. Into deciding of this person is 'electable' in reality. And what the person looks like, how they talk, how they handle themselfs with strangers, etc. It's all part of it.

If a canidate don't get early backers, they have a hard time staying in the race. So this is a serious issue on levels that we don't realize. If it's BELIEVED that a black man can't win, then there is no need to 'back' such a person from the get go. Which means such a person don't even have a chance. If it's BELIEVED, then such qualifed canidates will not be put forth or approached, encouraged, etc.

We are being TOLD to believe this. Repeating it, reminds people it's so. Aghm.. But is it?

Yes, there are racist persons out there. Of ALL sorts. Some are racist, but will vote for a black canidate, if it's believed that canidate is better for one reason or another. Just like some don't like women in the work force or in powerful jobs. SOMETIMES they will still vote for a woman. There is racism, culturism, etc. Many ways people come up with for why they don't like 'other' 'type' people. Including religan. Look at the radical right saying that democrats are immoral.. and those that vote for democrats are too. HELLO??

Sadly, the first black person to run, the skin color will be an issue. Because of the historical issue. That will distract from other issues. But it's a step we will have to take and get it over with. So it will no longer be an issue. So that there will no more polls with this sort of question. ;'}

If we keep saying it, then people will believe it. It's time to grow up and trust our neighbors. Sure, some of them are stupid. WE know that by how many actually did vote for JR. But not all our neighbors are stupid. We need to give them a chance.

Obama, now I think he has a chance at some point. If the time isn't now, I wouldn't be hammering saying it's because it's his skin color. It's HIS issues, HIS record, etc that should be what is talked about. So that people know the real man and what he is all about. He is still the new kid on the block. Some are still not paying 100% attention to him, cause they are expecting the new fight to be elsewhere.. and that he might be one to watch for a later race.

[AtomicKitten]

21. I think his skin color is irrelevant.

Anyone that would vote against him because of it would never vote for a Democrat anyway.

[Zynx]

23. Those who still care are a shrinking minority and vote Republican anyway.

[fuzzyball]

24. If Obama gets nominated, he will be running against Condi...

that neutralizes the color issue. But then again it may not.
Obama is only half black.

[AtomicKitten]

28. and twice as fabulous

:)

[fuzzyball]

60. To be blunt, what exactly has Obama accomplished in his 2 years

in senate to make him a president? I much prefer a more
seasoned candidate, and we have a whole bunch to choose
from...Hillary, Bayh, Vilsack, Gore and many others.

[AtomicKitten]

64. How about Gore/Obama?

I agree on the paucity of experience, although he has several years in the Illinois State Senate under his belt. Considering the craven proclivities of the MSM, perhaps a newcomer will be more difficult to frame negatively.

[fuzzyball]

69. A VP role under any other experienced candidate is just fine for

Mr. Obama. Absence of a record is not enough for majority
of voters to put their trust in one. The centrists and
undecidedes would break decisively against an unknown
entity IMO.

[xultar]

27. In 2k8?

[clarquistador]

29. My big worry about Obama.....

....is looking at Harold Ford's race in Tennessee get railroaded by racists.

My big worry about Obama is that he will move wayyyyy far to the right in order to offset any losses he would face over the "racist" vote, hence why he has recently been courting the evangelical vote.

Best of luck to him if he gets the nod, but I'm afraid he's going to go the Hillary route (triangulating) and turn a lot of people off in the process. I hope he doesn't take the Hillary route.

[caledesi]

35. Harold Ford is NO Obama and Obama isn't "into" triangulation.

So you need not be worried.

[IndianaGreen]

37. Ford is a triangulator and he endorsed Lieberman over Lamont

There is no comparison between an appeaser like Ford, or an Obama who spoke up against the war in Iraq while he was running for the Senate, at a time when it was unpopular to do so.

[beaconess]

41. Ford opposed the Alito filibuster - even though he wasn't in the Senate and no one had asked him

what he thought about it.

[caledesi]

31. I voted false bec if the Dems and Indys come in droves to vote

the rethugs vote against him will not matter. Most Dems and Indys don't care what color someone is, while the majority of rethugs do. If you don't believe me, take a stroll to freeperville. It is not uncommon to read epithets such as "towelhead, raghead for Muslims, or as they say muzzies.

As far as anyone black, they have their own way of writing where their racism shows.

Most of them don't like Latinos either. The racism is rampant on that site.

[caledesi]

33. The meaning of the name Hussein is "handsome one"...wow

can't you just picture Obama's retort, when they try to slam him on his middle name? It will be great. I will make bets that the name Hussein is about as common as the name Smith is in the US.

Gee, Mohammad Ali didn't and doesn't have a problem drawing the press etc.

To me, it's pretty shallow to start dissing someone bec of their name...enter OxyRush..apparently he calls him Hussein Obama. The rethugs are all over this one.

[IndianaGreen]

36. Like Tiger Woods, Obama is biracial

and like him, we rejoice in his rich and proud heritage.

[Voltaire]

38. Take it from THIS black man

America will NEVER elect a black man as president. Ain't. Never. Gonna. Happen.

This country is not nearly as far away from its slavery mentality as it thinks it is.

PSSSSTT....they probably won't elect a woman either.

[IndianaGreen]

50. We live in a racist, homophobic, and misogynist country, Voltaire

As long as we live here, we have an obligation to work for the kind of society in which all people have equal rights and participate fully in its democratic institutions; a society in which ethnicity, gender, and class differences have been swept away.

I remind you that at one time South Africa was in the grip of apartheid and anti-Socialist hysteria, yet that did not discourage Nelson Mandela and Joe Slovo from continuing the struggle for freedom and equality.

[KingFlorez]

52. This country will do that

People who would vote against Obama because he is black are a fringe minority, not a majority.

[fuzzyball]

61. I have to agree with your realism....a black person won't win until

2024 at the earliest. By that time kids in high school thru K
today will be the biggest voting block, and these kids get along
just fine across color lines.

[beaconess]

66. So, no Black person should run until 2024?

And suddenly, in 2024, when the country is ready, THEN a Black person can run for president?

In the meantime, should we just sit on the sidelines watching the White guys, no matter how unqualified they may be, fully participate in the system?

[fuzzyball]

70. Run all you want, but won't get elected.

A presidential election is not judged by most voters as
some kind of rigorous qualifications test. If it was the
former actor would have never got elected twice.

It has a lot to do with likeability, charisma, and other
subjective qualities. A lot of older whites simply won't
vote for a black person. I don't like it, but I can be
accused of being a realist.

[beaconess]

72. So? None of the White Democrats who ran for president in 2004 got elected

The vast majority of White candidates who run this time around won't get elected. So what's the big deal if a Black candidate runs but doesn't win? White candidates lose all of the time.

[fuzzyball]

75. Did I say it was wrong for a black person to run? NO!

My only point is a black candidate has no chance to
win for another 16 years atleast. I have absolutely
nothing against person of any color running.

[left of center]

40. not because he is black, but because...

he is young and has not even served out his first term as senator.

[k_jerome]

48. true. nt.

[argyl]

49. When he addressed the 2004 Convention I was mesmerized. I felt

that I was seeing 21st Century America personified. I'd heard of him but had never heard him speak or even seen him. I believed I had seen a future President for the first time. Could he win the Presidency? Absolutely.

[lynne]

51. Like it or not, I think that it's true -

- I feel it will take another generation before we manage either a female or black president.

[windbreeze]

55. How about we forget his color...and watch what he says and does instead?? n/t

[laureloak]

56. He can't win because he doesnt have a resume. n/t

[mtnsnake]

57. Obama is probably our most inspiring candidate. I don't give a fuck if he's orange

If he's got the best chance to win the presidency, he'll get the Democratic nod.

Barack Obama is probably the most popular candidate in the US right now, Democratic or Republican.

[Ninja Jordan]

63. He makes people feel good.

[Infinite Hope]

67. He can't win in 2008 merely because of lack of experience, not color. n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. It's the combination that's a problem

I think a black man can get elected President, but he will have to run against a head wind in order to win. I don't know what that translates into in percentage of racist votes that might have voted for a white Democrat but not a black one (racists who only vote for Republicans anyway are moot to this point), maybe two to three percent vote leakage for racism alone.

That type of handicap can be overcome, larger shifts than that happen from Election to Election in the relative strength of the Republican candidate against the Democratic one. Someone like Obama has a real chance to be elected President now. I think Colin Powell had a real chance to be elected President a few years back had he become a candidate. Harold Ford Jr. came pretty close to being elected Senator from a Red Southern State. The fact that he narrowly lost can be used to argue this issue from either side I suppose.

But the fact that Obama lacks experience on the national and international stage compared to someone like McCain gives cover to those whites who are not completely comfortable voting for a black to be President. It gives them a socially acceptable reasaon to not support Obama. I would certainly vote for Obama for President if he wins our nomination but he doesn't have the experience I want either. I'll get past that to keep the White House from remaining in Republican hands. Personally, the fact that Obama is "Black" is a big plus to me

[fuzzyball]

71. Good post & analysis...eom

[Rockholm]

73. OMG? He's....BLACK??

I had no idea.

[LWolf]

74. False.

I hope he doesn't win because I don't think he's the right man for the job, but it has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

[Tippy]

76. Many in the South have never gotten passed the Civil War...

While many in TN applaud Fords numbers in the recent Senate race..he still did not win. And the reason he lost was because of the color of his skin...team that with a white woman on the comercial and he was dead in the water...Every time he was pictured with a supporter or supporters who happend to be white...the good ol' boys blood boiled.....and they voted accordingly...