Think Obama can't win? He's got some secret weapons.

[pnwmom]

His girls.

http://photos.barackobama.com/gallery/123910/1/4469775

And his extended family includes white grandparents and a white mother, full-blooded African grandparents, father, and half-siblings, and a half-sister who is half Indonesian and half white. He even has some Cherokee blood. He IS the new face of America.

[Jennicut]

1. He has a lack of experience

and that is not something he can pull out of a hat, or family picture. I like that he is a blend of cultures and races and he speaks eloquently but he has not been Senator very long, was never a governor. He has no foreign policy experience. We need that today as the world is so crazt with Iran, North Korea. Obama is not the only one with lack of experience, Edwards is too. I like both of them but only as VP candidates.

[samfishX]

2. I agree

Running Obama is about as big a mistake it is to run Hillary.

[pnwmom]

3. Abraham Lincoln had less experience. Richard Nixon had a lot more.

Just a couple of examples.

Welcome to DU, Jennicut!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. Lincoln, uhm, had more domestic problems than foreign ones.

Plus, I'm still not so sure he made such a good choice, looking at how divided the North and South STILL are in this country.

[Alexander]

30. You are playing fast and loose with the facts.

Nixon was only a freshman Senator with 2 H.R. terms behind that when he was nominated as VP. Meaning if Ike keeled over, a guy with 2 years in the Senate and 4 in the House would be President.

Edwards had just as many years in Congress when he became Kerry's running mate.

So no, Nixon did not have "a lot more" by the time he was first bumped up into the Executive Branch.

And Lincoln is over-rated and personally did not give a shit about slavery.

[Hailtothechimp]

62. I'm calling bullshit on that.

Look at my avatar and it's obvious I'm going to bat for Lincoln, but here goes:

You say he's over-rated. He navigated through the Civil War and saved the nation as we know it. His Farewell address in Springfield, as eloquent and heartfelt a speech as you will ever read, said that the task before him in 1861 was greater than that on George Washington. And he was right. Open rebellion was unprecedented, and that Lincoln could hold the nation together was nothing short of amazing. AND he got killed for his troubles to boot.

Go back and read his speeches. Then consider how he came from nothing, and nowhere, to accomplish what he did. No aristocratic upbringing for him. He earned everything he ever got.

One more thing. If Lincoln was an abolitionist who wanted to end slavery, a la William Lloyd Garrison, it would have been out of character with the Illinois he lived in. A free state, to be sure, but also one where Elijah Lovejoy was killed by a mob for printing abolitionist sentiments. Lincoln knew that slavery was a long-established and protected form of property, and he could never get himself elected to anything if he too openly opposed it. That was the reality of the times for Lincoln. He personally opposed slavery, but his electoral fortunes depended on not going too far out to oppose it.

Lincoln was, as Vachel Lindsey put it, the prairie lawyer, and master of us all. You don't have to share my enthusiasm for Lincoln, but find a better word for him than over-rated.

[LiberalEsto]

4. Exactly. Where's the beef?

Show me a list of his accomplishments. As far as I'm concerned, he is still a rookie.

[elehhhhna]

6. I coud not have said it better. Show me results.

We have an outsider w/ little experience in governance and look where we are now.

[Eurobabe]

25. Asshat was Gov. for 8 years and trashed everything he touched

So that 'qualifies' as experience?

Just curious.

[LiberalEsto]

26. I didn't vote for him. nt

[Eurobabe]

27. Neither did I, so your point is?

[Imagevision]

5. lack of experience? get real! -- a prez mostly needs leadership abilities

All Obama needs is to surround himself with the best and the brightest...
Then leadership skills take over.

[patricia92243]

7. That is what Bush said about himself- that he would appoint the best, give them a lot of leeway,and

then hold them accountable. If he had really done this, things would be quite different.

[pnwmom]

21. I would trust Obama not to follow Bush's lead on that.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. I agree - and I do think he'd make a great VP candidate. (nt)

[KKKarl is an idiot]

19. Why are we concerned with experience?

Personally I am sick & tired of those Congressman & Senators who get elected time after time because they have experience. They are probably the most corrupt of them all. Lieberman only got re-elected because some democrats in CT felt he had more experience. Was he a good choice to send back to DC?

Bush had experience as a Governor. His father was both President & Vice President. His brother is a Governor. What did that get us? A whole lot of grief & we are still in that mess.

Lets give this new kid on the block a fair look. lets forget about experience & look at what is best for our country.

[Alexander]

31. Carter's lack of experience led to some embarassing mistakes.

While I love Jimmy Carter and think he's been one of the most honest presidents ever to set foot in the White House, him being only a one-term Governor with a couple years of state Senate experience behind that led to some embarassing foreign policy problems and gaffes someone with such experience might not have made.

He also brought in a bunch of his Georgia pals into the White House, which did not necessarily make for an expert team.

Replace "Governor" with "Senator" and you have Obama's exact situation now. I say Gore in 2008, and Obama can wait a few years to be president until he actually gets something done.

[cascadiance]

60. Agreed, for me I would much rather have Gore in 2008...

Gore learned through EXPERIENCE that cowtowing too much to the DLC got him in trouble in his last election. I think this time around he'd be his own man, and someone I could really get behind with a passion for doing what's right for the country, not just about getting elected (and "not being Clinton" in trying to do so).

I think Obama needs to learn that too. I'm not convinced that he's distanced away enough from the DLC for my tastes. Without a lot of experience, he's hard to measure where he truly lies with his stances on real important issues. He sided too many times with the DLC for my taste on things that I was looking at. I think the DLC realizes that Hillary might have too many skeletons to get elected and therefore they probably would rather have someone like Obama, assuming that they felt they could control him, with him not having a history yet for many to judge him by. The marketing pitch that is now being done for him is the kind of thing they do best, but is hollow when it ultimately comes time to judge who one wants for president in the final days.

Gore tried to shake them off a bit in his campaign, but with DLC favorite son Lieberman already attached to him, etc. I think he was already in too thick, and that helped cost him 2000.

[jefferson_dem]

34. No shit. The more people harp about "lack of experience" the more attractive he becomes.

...As if more time in capital cesspool automatically lends credibility. Oh please...

[Cha]

32. Oh darn! He has everything

else..all he needs is some Experience. Don't suppose he'd want to be someone's VP?

[jefferson_dem]

33. Oh Lord. Were the same "no experience" criticisms levied at your avatar, when he

was campaigning to join the "most exclusive club in the world" with zero political experience at all?

All i'm saying is this experience thing can be taken a bit too far. There's more to one's qualifications to serve than raw number of years spent toiling away in some executive or legislative political position.

[Cha]

36. You got me

there! I think Lamont would have been an honest Senator as opposed to lieman's 18 years turning him into a corrupt warmonger.

[Alexander]

41. So we should take a truck driver down the street as president?

How far are you willing to go to defend a candidate's clear lack of domestic and foreign policy credentials?

Obama introduced (with Lugar) one bill and sponsored two others. Am I wrong for suggesting that I'd like to see more results from the man before he decides he's fit for the highest office in the country?

Am I wrong in suggesting Obama should have to face re-election before he runs for higher office? After all, he won the 2004 general election largely by default. Most presidents who held statewide office had been elected statewide at least twice before they made the big run.

EDIT: I vociferously supported Lamont this year, being CT born and CT bred as I am. I personally would like him to run for Chris Shays' seat next year. Yet if Lamont had a paper trail of bills he was on record as being for or against, I suspect voters would've had a clearer idea of where he stood on issues besides the Iraq War.

Yes, my avatar had a lack of political experience as well, however his campaign was won largely due to his quirky, clever commercials, a refreshing call for honesty and transparency in government, and Rudy Boschwitz self-destructing throughout the campaign.

[jefferson_dem]

43. Would we support Byrd for President (if he ran) because he's served in the Senate for 1/2 a century?

Given the fact that you compare Obama and the skills he might offer to that of "a truck driver"...you are certainly free to employ whatever criteria you want in deciding who to support. If you are seeking a candidate who can offer a bevy of federal legislative accomplishments, Obama's probably not your guy.

Maybe Biden looks appealing. He's served in the Senate since what...1972?

[Alexander]

54. It was my way of asking "how far will you go to tolerating political inexperience"?

I suppose many Americans will go a fair distance, given that Ross Perot netted a large number of votes in 1992.

But c'mon, Obama needs SOMETHING to brag about in the Senate. Otherwise, what's the point of being a Senator? The Senate should be more than just a stepping stone towards the presidency.

My question still stands - would you vote for someone in the primaries who had never been in elected office before?

I personally would never support Byrd, ever - although that didn't stop him from running in 1976.

Why do you have a problem with our presidential candidates having some legislative accomplishments they can point to? Why can't Obama focus on the job the Illinois voters expect him to do, instead of seeking higher office immediately?

[jefferson_dem]

57. I can't answer that question. For me, it's not about "tolerating" anything.

It's about hearing a voice that speaks to me, and selecting a candidate i believe is the right one for the job.

I recently raised that same issue about Wes Clark, who has ... never being elected to public office. Personally, i could easily find myself supporting him, given whatever alternatives are out there. Do you reject Clark on those same grounds?

As i already said, i have no problem with people who wish to place a premium on the candidate's legislative accomplishments. For me, that's just part of the package.

[jefferson_dem]

45. I appreciate your clarification. I love Wellstone! His story is an American classic!

Those low-budget spots of him chasing Rudy around Minnesota...aw... Man, i miss Wellstone...

[beaconess]

48. Maybe . . .

When I think of some of our greatest presidents and leaders, I tend to remember what they stood for, the kind of people they were, what they made people think and believe much more than what their previous experience was.

JFK and FDR, for example.

Martin Luther King had no government experience - he was "just" a preacher and community organizer.

Nelson Mandela had no government experience - "just" 28 years in prison and, before that, was a community organizer.

Robert F. Kennedy had government experience, but his time in government is rarely what people bring up when they talk about why they regret that he didn't live to become president - they talk about his empathy, his compassion, his vision, his willingness to speak out against the war, to reach out to people, to share our pain and hopes. Does anyone looking back nostalgically at Bobby Kennedy say, "Man - I so wanted him to be president because he was a helluva Attorney General?" I don't think so.

[Alexander]

55. And lack of said experience often leads to embarassing mistakes in office.

Not always, but often.

If and when Obama becomes president (which I hope will be some day, not just 2008), I want him to be smart enough, experienced enough and open-minded enough to be able to avoid such mistakes.

MLK never ran for office, Mandela ran in an entirely different country (talk about apples and oranges), and RFK's campaign was at least partially, if not mostly, built on nostalgia for his older brother. Yes, he distinguished himself with his speeches and empathy, but if his name was Robert Francis it would've been an entirely different campaign.

Speaking of JFK, he had 3 terms in the House and was in the middle of his second Senate term. Even he had more experience then than Obama has now.

FDR was a State Senator, Assistant Secretary of the Navy, a nominee for vice-president, and Governor of New York before he was elected president. Quite a long list of credentials, don't you think?

I like Obama but I want to see him do the job he was elected to - which was my main beef with John Edwards. Voters tend to get pissed if the guy they elected shows his hand too early. So far, Obama was elected to the Senate - let's see some work done in the Senate before he decides he doesn't want to be there any more.

[beaconess]

58. And some very experienced presidents also have had some very embarrassing failures

Nixon, Bush, Sr., and Herbert Hoover, among others, also have more experience than Obama has. But that didn't help them as president - they are remembered as failures, notwithstanding their long resumes.

And you're right - FDR and JFK had more experience than Obama - but my point is that they aren't remembered for their experience. They're remembered for what they stood for.

[usregimechange]

42. Right wing talking point?

BA in political science (with a specialization in international
relations) from Columbia University.

JD Graduate of Harvard Law School (Juris Doctor degree, magna cum
laude).

President of the Harvard Law Review (the first ever African
American).


Experience:

Civil rights attorney (turned down a prestigious judicial clerkship1)

Constitutional law professor.

Community organizer.

State Senator.

Chairman of the Illinois State Senate Health and Human Services
Committee.

US Senator.

Member of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Environment and
Public Works Committee, and Veterans ' Affairs Committee.

Author.

Husband and father of two daughters.

Board member of the Joyce Foundation, the Woods Fund of Chicago, and
the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.


Honors:

Grammy award winner (Spoken Word category).

Honored by the National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences (for
narration of one of his books).

Honorary doctor of laws degree from the University of Massachusetts
Boston (for among other things, "advancing and protecting the
interests of the less fortunate"2)


Seems rather experienced to me...

[beaconess]

44. Oh yeah? But has he ever piloted a plane?

Or built a house from scratch?

Or groomed a dog?

Or appeared in an opera?

If not, he's just not experienced enough.

[jefferson_dem]

47. LOL! Those who complain about "no experience" can find solace in that they are in the company of

Dick(less) Morris. He was on FauxNews tonight chirping about how Obama has done none of those things you mention so he's "just a shooting star"...LOL!

[beaconess]

49. Right

If he'd spent the last 15 years in the Senate, someone would bitch that he hadn't been a governor, so he had no executive experience.

If he's spent the last 15 years as a governor, someone else would whine that he didn't have enough experience in federal government or foreign policy.

If he'd spent the the last 15 years as a governor AND THEN a Senator, someone else would moan that he was a lifelong politician too entrenched in politics to be capable of understanding real world problems.

[liberalpragmatist]

51. Obama has more foreign policy experience at this point...

... than did Carter, Clinton, Reagan, Johnson, or Truman.

He has served on the Foreign Relations committee, been mentored by Richard Lugar (who, though a Republican, is an internationalist), taken very public, policy-oriented trips to Africa and Russia, and authored legislation securing loose nukes in the Soviet Union.

Plus, on the biggest foreign policy question of the past couple of decades - war in Iraq - he was right and many of his esteemed rivals for the nomination were wrong. And this was when he was only a state senator.

And an awful lot of diplomacy comes down to people skills, which Obama has by the bucket-load.

[beaconess]

52. Clinton had no foreign policy experience yet he was one of the best

diplomat-presidents we've ever had. He more than held his own with foreign leaders, represented the country beautifully, made sound decisions and people in countries across the world worshipped him - and still do.

[IndianaGreen]

53. Hillary's experience: She supported the war in Iraq

Obama's lack of experience: He opposed the war in Iraq.

Hillary's experience is not the sort that this country needs.

[mtnsnake]

61. What a feeble attempt at changing this thread into a Hillary flame

Nice try, but nobody bit.

[KKKarl is an idiot]

65. Good point

I don't like bashing democratic members. But both Hilary & Kerry voted for the war. The reason for this can only be the fact that they did not want to seem soft on the so called "war on terror". It takes a man like Obama who has little or not political experience to say "NO". While Kerry & Hilary may have been thinking the same thing they did not vote that way. Now that does not mean experience counts for nothing. But I am really tired of seasoned politicians playing politics.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. ...I'm really not so sure that isn't a weapon AGAINST him.

Seriously, I think that only makes things worse in the eyes of racists.

[Kelly Rupert]

11. Racists ain't voting for him anyway.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

12. So how is this a secret weapon then?

If racists aren't voting for him anyway, why would his background be any more of a positive? Why would it bring more people to his side? I'm failing to understand the logic here - you're appealing to people that don't care about his race anyway by saying he's got a mixed background after all? I'm one of those people and I still say "Well, that's nice and all, but what have you actually done?" It's the same question I asked (And still ask) John Edwards, to which I've gotten no real response.

[pnwmom]

15. He's going to appeal strongly to young people.

IMO, his candidacy could electrify them . . . with effects that reverberate out into the larger population.

And he's going to appeal to America's desire for Camelot -- he has the same kind of genial, intelligent, inspiring demeanor that John F. Kennedy had -- complete with beautiful wife and adorable children.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. That I don't disagree with.

I do think he could be a very energizing figure.

I still think, however, he needs more experience under his belt. More so than any other factor, this will hurt his chances. I do think he'll be an outstanding choice for VP and, should we lose in 2008, he would be a very attractive candidate in 2012 (should he manage to keep his nose clean until then.)

[pnwmom]

22. Nixon had 2 years in the House, 4 years in the Senate,

and 8 years as Vice President.

I'd rather have the right kind of PERSON than the right kind of experience.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. I'd rather have both.

And both are out there.

[elehhhhna]

64. Folks are awfully quick to put a halo on this man...

IMO he needs more seasoning.

He also needs to cut ties to Rezko and some other shady players in Chicago. Why he's dealing w/ Da Boys up there is beyond me--he's giving Reeps a hell of a lot of ammo to use against him in the future.

[Norquist Nemesis]

24. He's doing a lot of things under the radar with them, too

One thing is a weekly Ipod address that "kids" (I'm on the long side of forty LOL!) are the target audience. From what I understand, it's reaching this audience positively and growing.

It reminds me of Reagan spending all of those years with his talk-radio. He used it very effectively to the point that while a lot of us were talking about 'that actor with the chimpanzee', there was a grassroots that "knew" him for his positions. Positions, which for the most part, made Liberals the root of all evil and things they didn't like about Government.

As for the "he has no experience" that keeps getting propped up in the cornfield...well, Gore had Bush beat in that area hands down just to name one example.

[pnwmom]

14. How many racists are going to vote for the Democrat anyway?

Do you think Al Gore would get the racist vote? Or any good Democrat?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. Some of it, yes.

Like it or not, our party does have racists in it. And no, we shouldn't pander to that at all, but putting your head in the sand regarding the fact isn't going to change the results.

[pnwmom]

18. And we're never going to know when a black candidate is ready

until we run one.

[Jennicut]

13. You guys are a little too cynical on race

There are a lot of racists out there but even my ultra right wing father once said he would vote for Colin Powell. Eventually we are all gonna end up a mix of something in this country. I, for instance, am French, English, Irish, Dutch, Italian, German, and Native American (Cherokee). My daughters have that plus Polish, Danish, Iranian and more Native American. We are becoming increasingly mixed. That shows with Obama. I think eventually we will move past the racism as it is still out there but more people are not racist than are. Look at the outrage over Michael Richards.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. Eventually... but that day is not today.

And I do think people feign outrage for the same reason people like Ted Haggard were so staunchly anti-gay - the more you're outraged, the less racist you look.

[Heewack]

39. I'm concerned we might have some racists here

It sure seems that way with the fervent calls that he can't ein because he is black.

[loyalsister]

28. Cherokee.......

something he will have in common with many many average middle Americans or even Southerners. Lots have that and acknowledge it with a level of pride.
As for experience. He is a person who grew up internationally.
The kind of grassroots community organizing that he has been involved with is consistently overlooked. Life experience creates a person. Negotiating is the executive task at hand in that kind of work.
He used his skills to help better the lives of people on the ground rather than to simply make technical deals that were far removed from their actual results.
This is a guy who could be a populist like we haven't seen for many many years if he doesn't get lost in the glorified "experience" of the Senate.

[rocktivity]

29. The best weapon Obama could have is eight years' experience

as a VICE president.

:headbang:
rocknation

[jefferson_dem]

35. Thanks for posting this link. His girls are beautiful!

I've talked to so many people in the past week who are totally ready for what Obama has to offer. His time is now!

[mtnsnake]

37. "He IS the new face of America"

And his extended family includes white grandparents and a white mother, full-blooded African grandparents, father, and half-siblings, and a half-sister who is half Indonesian and half white. He even has some Cherokee blood. He IS the new face of America.

He is also THE face of America. ;)

[jefferson_dem]

38. More beautiful pics -

[beaconess]

40. Ok - that's dirty pool

No fair bringing out kids this cute.

Are you sure they're real? I think he hired them out of Central Casting (the same place John Edwards got HIS kids!).

[IndyOp]

46. Are we almost done with the mindless cult of personality in this f*ing nation?

I want to hear about his public policy. His international monetary policy. His position on free trade. His knowledge and experience re: military, CIA, DIA... How about his environmental policy?

I don't want to hear his snappy banter.

I don't care about his children.

I don't care about his wife or mother or auntie ann.

I don't care about his ethnicity.

HOW HAS HE LED IN PUBLIC POLICY?

Answer: Obama hasn't. He is too inexperienced to run for Pres.

(And Hillary is evil. <- Not relevant to this thread, but it can't be said often enough).

[beaconess]

50. You'll get more than enough of all of that if he decides to run

That's what campaigns are all about . . .

[Imagevision]

56. With an idiot like Bush as prez, how can anyone question Obama's experience or intelligence

[ourbluenation]

59. you need to be smart, saavy, and have great advisors. if he's go that

he'll be fine, really.

[LWolf]

63. I'm sure he CAN win. I just don't want him to. n/t