Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Sen. Byrd on the IWR - Oct 4, 2002

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 09:42 AM
Original message
Sen. Byrd on the IWR - Oct 4, 2002
http://www.counterpunch.org/byrd1004.html

October 4, 2002

Bush War Plan:
"Blind and Improvident"
by SENATOR ROBERT BYRD

The great Roman historian, Titus Livius, said, "All things will be clear and distinct to the man who does not hurry; haste is blind and improvident."

"Blind and improvident," Mr. President. "Blind and improvident." Congress would be wise to heed those words today, for as sure as the sun rises in the east, we are embarking on a course of action with regard to Iraq that, in its haste, is both blind and improvident. We are rushing into war without fully discussing why, without thoroughly considering the consequences, or without making any attempt to explore what steps we might take to avert conflict.

The newly bellicose mood that permeates this White House is unfortunate, all the moreso because it is clearly motivated by campaign politics. Republicans are already running attack ads against Democrats on Iraq. Democrats favor fast approval of a resolution so they can change the subject to domestic economic problems. (NY Times 9/20/2002)

Before risking the lives of American troops, all members of Congress - Democrats and Republicans alike - must overcome the siren song of political polls and focus strictly on the merits, not the politics, of this most serious issue.

The resolution before us today is not only a product of haste; it is also a product of presidential hubris. This resolution is breathtaking in its scope. It redefines the nature of defense, and reinterprets the Constitution to suit the will of the Executive Branch. It would give the President blanket authority to launch a unilateral preemptive attack on a sovereign nation that is perceived to be a threat to the United States. This is an unprecedented and unfounded interpretation of the President's authority under the Constitution, not to mention the fact that it stands the charter of the United Nations on its head.

(snip)

Congress has a responsibility to exercise with extreme care the power to declare war. There is no weightier matter to be considered. A war against Iraq will affect thousands if not tens of thousands of lives, and perhaps alter the course of history. It will surely affect the balance of power in the Middle East. It is not a decision to be taken in haste, under the glare of election year politics and the pressure of artificial deadlines. And yet any observer can see that that is exactly what the Senate is proposing to do.

The Senate is rushing to vote on whether to declare war on Iraq without pausing to ask why. Why is war being dealt with not as a last resort but as a first resort? Why is Congress being pressured to act now, as of today, 33 days before a general election when a third of the Senate and the entire House of Representatives are in the final, highly politicized, weeks of election campaigns? As recently as Tuesday (Oct. 1), the President said he had not yet made up his mind about whether to go to war with Iraq. And yet Congress is being exhorted to give the President open-ended authority now, to exercise whenever he pleases, in the event that he decides to invade Iraq. Why is Congress elbowing past the President to authorize a military campaign that the President may or may not even decide to pursue? Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves?

(snip)

The President is using the Oval Office as a bully pulpit to sound the call to arms, but it is from Capitol Hill that such orders must flow. The people, through their elected representatives, must make that decision. It is here that debate must take place and where the full spectrum of the public's desires, concerns, and misgivings must be heard. We should not allow ourselves to be pushed into one course or another in the face of a full court publicity press from the White House. We have, rather, a duty to the nation and her sons and daughters to carefully examine all possible courses of action and to consider the long term consequences of any decision to act.

(snip)

The questions surrounding the wisdom of declaring war on Iraq are many and serious. The answers are too few and too glib. This is no way to embark on war. The Senate must address these questions before acting on this kind of sweeping use of force resolution. We don't need more rhetoric. We don't need more campaign slogans or fund raising letters. We need - the American people need - information and informed debate.

(snip)

Robert Byrd is the senior senator from West Virginia. This is the text of his remarks to the senate on the Bush war resolution.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess someone forgot to tell Sen. Byrd, who has been in the Senate for multiple decades, and was around for the authorization of the Vietnam War, that this really wasn't a vote for war :sarcasm:

I hope this puts to bed the silly ideas that:
(1) the IWR was not a vote to authorize war, and
(2) the IWR was not a blank check.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. And they just shrugged off the old fool....
and voted for the IWR anyway. I remember how the DU stood behind Senator Byrd at that time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. me too
and no one was saying back then that it was a vote to prevent war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think I agree with you??
Edited on Mon Dec-04-06 11:17 AM by kentuck
I recall that most people agreed with Byrd that it was giving the President the authority??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. Remember how the MSM never reported on any of his speeches? And...
check out this post from Walter Pincus of WaPo where he talks about the Dems in the House ...122 of them who tried to stop Bush's Invasion by calling for the Inspectors to go back in and a waiting period. Pincus reports that the WaPo didn't even bother to report on the reasons those 122 tried to stop Bush's War.

Media needs to be held accountable and heads should roll at WaPo and NYT for what they did in NOT informing the people of what was going on.

Here's link to Pincus articla and the DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2854459
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you for posting this. I wish Olbermann would run it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. No it doesn't!
There were several other amendments attempting to hold Bush accountable and all the Senators voted for more than one version of the resolution:

Levin Amdt. No. 4862

Statement of Purpose: To authorize the use of the United States Armed Forces, pursuant to a new resolution of the United Nations Security Council, to destroy, remove, or render harmless Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons-usable material, long-range ballistic missiles, and related facilities, and for other purposes.


YEAs ---24
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)



Durbin Amdt. No. 4865

Statement of Purpose: To amend the authorization for the use of the Armed Forces to cover an imminent threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction rather than the continuing threat posed by Iraq.


YEAs ---30
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)


Byrd's own amendment was an authorization to use force, but with an expiration date of 12 months, plenty of time for Bush to violate it!

It wasn't a vote for war.

Here is a statement from Byrd about the other authorization Bush violated, which was an unconditional declaration issued after 9/11:

December 19, 2005

No President Is Above the Law

Snip...

The President claims a boundless authority through the resolution that authorized the war on those who perpetrated the September 11th attacks. But that resolution does not give the President unchecked power to spy on our own people. That resolution does not give the Administration the power to create covert prisons for secret prisoners. That resolution does not authorize the torture of prisoners to extract information from them. That resolution does not authorize running black-hole secret prisons in foreign countries to get around U.S. law. That resolution does not give the President the powers reserved only for kings and potentates.

http://byrd.senate.gov/newsroom/news_dec/law_for_all.html



Accept it: Bush violated the IWR and would have violated anyone authorization that passed!




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. what language in the IWR did Bush violate
did he not send his determination that diplomatic relations would not work?

Accept it: Dems fucked up in voting for this. This is the Repugs war, make no mistake, but the Dems should NOT have had a hand in enabling this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Why are you so desperate to absolve Bush?
George Bush sought a congressional resolution authorizing force and secured it on Oct. 10, 2002. That resolution explicitly restricted the use of force to compelling adherence with “relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions,” and continuing threats from Iraq. This was not a blanket declaration of war. The resolution’s contingent authority evaporates if its conditions are not met.


Foremost is the matter of the U.N. Security Council action (Resolution 1441) passed on Nov. 8, 2002. Debate has long raged over whether 1441—by itself or in combination with earlier Security Council resolutions enacted during and after the Gulf War—authorized a resort to force against Iraq. Lord Goldsmith supplies an exhaustive analysis of the operative paragraphs of Resolution 1441 that shows how it required further U.N. action to approve force.

link

Iraq war illegal...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate"
He determined it to be necessary and appropriate, that's all that was required by the resolution, end of story.

Congress gave Bush a blank check, he cashed it. Get over it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Did he
adhere to all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions?

Seems Kerry gave a long speech about doing just that going through the U.N., and pointing out that language in the resolution.

Bush violated the IWR. Get over it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Congress did not force him to adhere to all relevant UNSC resolutions
All the resolution does is offer "support" to his efforts to enforce the resolutions.

If Bush determined that it was necessary and appropriate to invade Iraq in order to defend national security and enforce UNSC resolutions, then he was acting within the terms of the resolution. Nowhere in the resolution does it say that his determination must be rooted in logic or fact, only that he made the determination. The resolution made him the "determinator"

I know you don't like these facts, but that's the way things are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. No he wasn't
because the U.N resolution, which the U.S. is party to, required Bush return to the U.N., as did the resolution.

This isn't about what Bush determined. He needed to provide justification and adhere to all U.N. resolutions. He did not!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Show me where Congress requires Bush to do anything
Besides determine that invading Iraq is necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.


You can't.

As far as this resolution goes, it hinges on nothing besides Bush's determination.

It was a really bad idea, and you're trying to turn this horrible resolution into something that it is not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Or don't, whichever is easier.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Even easier:
Kicked the thread up to the top!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-04-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. UN resolutions and continuing threats
these are so broad that anything could get through them. All Bush had to do was say that diplomatic action wouldn't work to get rid of the "threat." Almost anything could be a "continuing threat," even Bush's claims that Saddam had WMD programs which could produce weapons in the future.

I am not absolving Bush, unless you believe that only one party can be responsible for anything. Bush is responsible but Dems must be better than to enable him for political reasons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC