Hillary never said, "I trust this White House"

[mtnsnake]

She didn't say it in her IWR speech and she never said it period. She said she wanted to avoid war if at all possible. Maybe it would be worth it to take the time and read the speech for yourself instead of taking to heart some of the pathetic propaganda hurled around here at face value by way more than one person. Here's the link to her IWR speech:
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=233783

It's one thing to hate someone, but to make up propaganda and spread it around this forum as if it's fact is pretty low. The people who take this propaganda and run with it, even when they know it to be untrue, should be ashamed.

While I'm at it, Hillary never supported a flag burning amendment either. What she did do was she co-sponsored legislation to outlaw desecration of the American flag in order to ward OFF any flag burning AMENDMENT. If you're interested, I think this flag legislation thing mainly took place in June of '05.

And no, Hillary isn't my first choice for President. Obama or Clark would be. Hillary would be fine by me, though, if elected.

[ruggerson]

1. Thank you

It's sad that some DU'ers will resort to outright lies in their bitter rage at Hillary. If you don't support her, great, argue that passionately. But to lie about her words and her thoughts is truly, deeply disgusting.

[opihimoimoi]

2. Hillary would be a much better President than any Pub out there...thats for sure

Needless to say...Bush doesn't even come close....the poor dude canardly speak well much less make sense.

[salib]

3. Excuse me. Who said, she said, what you said? Huh?

Where is this coming from? Please provide a link of someone here at DU saying what you said. OK?

[NMDemDist2]

4. I've seen it said on several threads

here's one where it's the subject line

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3000505&mesg_id=3000505

[salib]

6. Thank you. I did not see that thread.

Why is Ms. Clinton to target of both people on the right and the left?

[ruggerson]

5. It's the actual title of this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3000505

[LittleClarkie]

8. Couldn't this thread have been combined with that one, then?

Instead of making a brand new one?

[mtnsnake]

11. I thought the new thread title was important, for sake of balance & fairness to Clinton

[MannyGoldstein]

7. She Implicitly Trusted "This White House"

I'd never heard that she said "I trust this White House". She might not have said it, but she lived it.

Reading the piece that you link to, Mrs. Clinton explains that she doesn't want a war, but she needs to vote for authorization in the hopes of preventing a WMD attack from Saddam Hussein.

Lots of other Dems didn't vote for AUMF. They said, basically that the Bush Administration HAD NOT made the case for what Bush was asking for; that THEY DID NOT trust the administration. Mrs. Clinton voted, based on flimsy, cooked-up and easily-refuted evidence, to trust an obviously-evil the Bush administration with the most awesome responsibility - committing lives and treasure to war.

She trusted them.

I can't imagine why she shouldn't be held accountable.

[mtnsnake]

10. I'm glad you agree she never said it, but you're right...she should be

held accountable for her vote, just like all the other Democratic Senators who also voted the same as she did after being lied to by Bush, like the ones I listed below. Thank you for reading that link, btw. I remember reading several of the other speeches that day, and I thought Hillary's had less of a warmongering tone than some of the others, not that it makes her aye vote any easier to take. At least she should be held accountable for the actual words she used and not the words that some people would like to put into her mouth.

Democratic Senators who voted for the IWR:

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

[Nite Owl]

14. Many of those who did vote for

for the resolution though have come out and said that they felt that they were misled and wouldn't vote that way if they could do it over. Hillary has never come to that conclusion that I am aware, she also as recently as last year wanted more troops to be sent not to start a drawdown of our involvment. I don't 'hate' Hillary, she is my Senator and for the most part her votes have been solidly with the dems but she has not been a leader, she waits to see what the best way to vote and has not led. She is a junior Senator which should be noted and this was her first term. I would hope that she stays in the Senate and grows into the job and becomes a voice of leadership not just for NYers but for the country. She would make a fine Senate leader some day.

[PassingFair]

24. Democratic Senators who DID NOT vote for the WAR:

Note: Includes one independent and one REPUBLICAN with 20/20 FORESIGHT.


Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

Wonder what THEY had going for them?

On Edit:

The MAJORITY of dems in the House voted AGAINST IWR

Note: List includes SIX REPUBLICANS and 1 INDEPENDENT
Abercrombie
Allen
Baca
Baird
Baldacci
Baldwin
Barrett
Becerra
Blumenauer
Bonior
Brady (PA)
Brown (FL)
Brown (OH)
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
Carson (IN)
Clay
Clayton
Clyburn
Condit
Conyers
Costello
Coyne
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Duncan
Eshoo
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank
Gonzalez
Gutierrez
Hastings (FL)
Hilliard
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Hostettler
Houghton
Inslee
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Leach
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moran (VA)
Morella
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson (CA)
Watt (NC)
Woolsey
Wu

Guess they had their thumbs up their *sses, too.

[dflprincess]

73. What did they have going for them? My guess would be

enough integrity to not play politics with the lives of other people's children. Wellstone was the the only senator up for reelection who voted against this farce (even though he was told it would cost him the election).

My guess would be that those who voted for it did so because they were afraid of losing their next election (whether it was in 2002 or later). They knew if the war went "well", Republicans would use it against them and if it didn't work out, they assumed the left would forgive them.

[leftofthedial]

9. EACH Democratic candidate

about whom we are splitting hairs ad nauseum

would be preferable to any repuke

[AtomicKitten]

12. I emphatically agree that the truth about candidates is important.

I am really upset with myself for not having asked for a link on this. I think there is so much propaganda flying around DU that we become immune to it. Hillary isn't anywhere near the top of my list either but I care that the information put out here about the candidates is truthful to consider in our deliberations. It matters. Stretching the truth and just making stuff up to punctuate one's POV is gratuitous dishonesty and almost always pandering on behalf of an ulterior motive.

The truth matters.

Thanks, mtnsnake, for going out of your way to correct this misinformation. I appreciate it more than you know.

K&R

[Skittles]

13. she voted for IWR, she trusted that bastard

no????? Or else she just did it for political reasons. EITHER OPTION SUCKS. So it really wasn't that hard to believe, huh? Her vote was still D I S G U S T I N G.

[mtnsnake]

15. So did 28 other Dem senators & none of them said "I trust this White House" either

At least I'm not aware that any of them did.

Or else she just did it for political reasons. EITHER OPTION SUCKS. So it really wasn't that hard to believe, huh? Her vote was still D I S G U S T I N G.

I suppose she's the only one who "who did it for political reasons." Okayyyy.

I wonder if you think Edwards or Kerry's votes for the IWR were equally "disgusting" as Hillary's was.

[Skittles]

16. I don't care for ANY of those bastards who voted for IWR

THEY CAN ALL ROT IN HELL AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED AND YES, EDWARDS 'AND KERRY'S VOTES - ALL OF THEM WHO VOTED FOR THAT PIECE OF SHIT IWR HAVE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS.

[mtnsnake]

17. Thanks for the clarification!

Stop yelling, though :evilgrin:

[Skittles]

18. really though

I get your point but if you read any of my previous posts on the subject of IWR you will see I have had complete contempt for ALL who voted for it - how they could trust that incompetent piece of shit after HE STOLE THE ELECTION is f***ing beyond me......and putting their political careers ahead of the interests of their own country - they can all f*** themselves

[mtnsnake]

20. I believe you. Thing is, we've got to stay factual as to what they said

or what they didn't say. It's fair to holler at them for their votes, but it isn't fair to make up stuff they said that they never said (I'm not talking about you, btw). That's why I posted the link to her speech on the Senate floor during the IWR vote, where according to some, she said something she never said, EVER.

[Zhade]

23. Not to mention they abdicated their Constitutional role to decide war.

They didn't have the RIGHT to do that.

[AtomicKitten]

25. I agree.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. I have to agree with Skittles on this

I don't care what the reason they gave be it "on principle" or what the hell ever. It was wrong and the lives it's cost are on their heads as well as the republicans who voted for it. Every damned one of them. Period.

[AtomicKitten]

22. me three

I agree 100% with that.

[mtnsnake]

29. Me, too. I mean, four

Yup, it doesn't matter who voted. They all knew what we were headed into. I realize it was a lot tougher than we think it was to vote NO, considering how the Repukes had the country in a frenzy of fear, but just the same they voted for it and need to be held accountable for their parts in it all. The ones who voted YES all chipped in.

[AtomicKitten]

30. no doubt they had their nethers in a meat-grinder

as the Rs infamously do positioning dicey votes before elections, but this vote was a biggie! I think it is reasonable that people are pissed off about it when the holes in Junior's case were large enough to drive a Hummer through. I'd yield on any other issue, but I emphatically agree the love needs to be spread to all that voted yes and not just single out those we don't like gratuitously.

Spread the love.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

34. We can start a movement

Americans who really do stand on principle. :thumbsup:

[AtomicKitten]

36. yep

Thanks for speaking up.

[IndianaGreen]

21. Hillary said: I trust this President (Bush)

when she voted for IWR, and when he chided John Murtha's call for troop withdrawals, and opposed the Kerry Iraq withdrawal resolution.

Hillaristas will be reduced to defending Hillary against what she said, and positions she took.

[mtnsnake]

26. Yeah, only in the IWR version of her speech that YOU fabricated. Link please

Hillary said: I trust this President (Bush) when she voted for IWR, and when he chided John Murtha's call for troop withdrawals, and opposed the Kerry Iraq withdrawal resolution.

Do you ever stop with the bullshit. Don't you care how damaging it is to our Party? Oh wait, you're a Green posting on a Democratic forum!

[PassingFair]

28. The Pro-War votes are what did the damage to our party.

As soon as we get agreement on THAT and
get redress on THAT, then we can MOVE
FORWARD.

The public has punished the 'pukes at the polls.

We have to clean our own house, or we will
be suspect, and RIGHTLY SO.

[AtomicKitten]

31. spread the love

I think mtnsnake's point is that we need to spread the love to all that voted yes,
not just a select few that we have an ax to grind against.

[JeremyWestenn]

42. The Green just got WTFBBQPWNED.

Good work! ^_^

[mtnsnake]

43. My pleasure

Glad you enjoyed it!

[JeremyWestenn]

48. Disregard.

I was commenting on his lack of response only to see he did respond but still... Didn't actually respond. o_O

I got a craving for Ramen noodles. >_< But it's so late!!

[mtnsnake]

37. Well, are you gonna come up with that link or what?

I guess it's "or what", since Hillary never said that, but then again I guess the truth just doesn't matter to you.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Having a reading comprehension problem again!

Hillary's actions, her sins of commission and omission, speak louder than her words. Re-read the thread.

[mtnsnake]

41. Not at all, but you're having an integrity problem. Now how about that link?

Hillary never said what you said she said. No reading comprehension problem at all.

[JeremyWestenn]

50. Pwnt!!

[JeremyWestenn]

49. I concur with snake.

If she said she trusts this White House then prove it or stop spreading bullshit you know to be false.

[mtnsnake]

60. You can't back up your lies about Clinton, yet you're still posting down below

Amazing how all the bullshitters always back down when they're called on their nonsense.

[More Than A Feeling]

27. Do you have any proof of your flag-burning talking point?

Your memories are not good enough.

[mtnsnake]

32. Here's some

Clinton supports making flag burning illegal, but without adopting the constitutional Flag Desecration Amendment to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton co-sponsored legislation to criminalize the desecration of the American flag even as she opposed a constitutional amendment on the issue.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/f/flags_emblems_and_insignia/index.html?query=CONSTITUTIONAL%20AMENDMENTS&field=des&match=exact

[More Than A Feeling]

33. How does that amount to "heading off" the amendment?

I already knew about her views on the bill and the amendment. Without more evidence, getting from there to her "heading off" the amendment is a huge leap that smacks of spin.

On edit: I'd like to add that the real point is not whether she supported outlawing flag burning as a bill or an amendment. The point is she supported outlawing flag-burning.

[mtnsnake]

35. It's right there in the NYT article I posted. BTW, no one ever said "heading off"

not that it really matters in the scheme of things. I said "ward off."

Heading off, ward off, oppose...all the same things anyway, but if you're going to quote something I said, please get it right.

I already knew about her views on the bill and the amendment. Without more evidence, getting from there to her "heading off" the amendment is a huge leap that smacks of spin.

On edit: I'd like to add that the real point is not whether she supported outlawing flag burning as a bill or an amendment. The point is she supported outlawing flag-burning.

Stop playing games. I gave you the evidence you asked for. If you don't like it, take it up with the NY Times or Wikepedia.

FYI, the point is that there is a BIG difference in co-sponsoring legislation to outlaw desecration to the American flag and changing the Constitution with an amendment.

[More Than A Feeling]

38. Hillary Clinton supports outlawing flag-burning.

Do you dispute that?

[mtnsnake]

40. Why would I dispute that?

I already said it twice, once in the OP. Look, you're just playing games and wasting my fucking time. You asked me for proof that she never tried for a flag burning AMENDMENT, and I gave you that proof. That obviously upset you. Too bad, but the truth is the truth. Now, I'm done with your needless blabbergobble.

[More Than A Feeling]

44. Then we are in complete agreement, and I have nothing against you.

I acknowledge you are correct that supporting a bill while opposing the amendment can be characterized as warding off, although to me that carries implications of not supporting flag-burning and only supporting the bill as a tactical maneuver. Since you agree with me that she supports flag-burning, I see that you were not giving it the same implication I was, which is fine.

[mtnsnake]

45. No problem

BTW, I'm not saying she should get a medal or anything for her legislation, but it annoys me when so many people (not you) claim that she tried to get a flag burning amendment passed, when that simply wasn't the case.

Peace

[ruggerson]

46. I think you're right

she did support the bill as a tactical maneuver to defeat the amendment, knowing that Republicans would also vote down the bill as they only wanted the amendment.

It was a strategic, purely political move to stop an insane amendment and to give her, and others, cover from the Republicans down the road when they would try to scream "she supports flag burning!"

Some would call that smart politics. She's probably the reason we don't have a flag burning amendment.

[More Than A Feeling]

47. As much as I enjoy being told I'm right...

sadly, you've misunderstood. I actually think she co-sponsored a bill criminalizing flag-burning because...she supports criminalizing flag-burning. If it was solely tactical maneuver, why'd she co-sponsor it? She could have just voted for it. As I've noted before, triangulating against the first amendment as personal political innoculation is not something I approve. Why does she have to appear to oppose the first amendment? Why not just say, "I support the first amendment, just like Justice Antonin Scalia"?

[Bake]

70. And the truth, in this case, is bad enough!

But spinning it as "warding off" a Const. amendment, that takes a leap of logic.

The truth is, she supports outlawing what is probably the best single example of free speech. That's enough for me.

Bake

[zulchzulu]

53. Thanks for making this point

Outlawing flag burning and making it a federal crime is not the way to go about "heading off" the amendment. If anything, it's supporting a federal law to make an amendment in a future date possible incrementally.

Along with Utah Republican Sen. Robert Bennett, Mrs./Ms./Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton Esq.'s support of such a federal crime is an affront on the First Amendment's basic American freedom of expression and was a shameful, pandering act. Period.

Even ultra-conservative Justice Scalia finds that flag burning is a protected form of free speech.

I would love to hear her say that she supports making it a crime to burn a flag in order to not make it a constitutional amendment. Wow.

[oasis]

51. K&R because facts are a DUer's best friend. (n/t)

[Infinite Hope]

52. Thanks. Many posters are reactionary, falling into the same trap as the GOP n/t

[JNelson6563]

54. Clarification

While all of this was settled rather satisfactorily in the thread that inspired this thread, I see that section of the thread has been deleted. (It was peppered with "you're a liar!!11!!" type posts and, happily, at least that DU rule is still in place).

Anyhow, after reading the remarkably crafted CYA speech Hillary delivered when she voted yes on the IWR, I noted that she said "I will take the pResident at his word..." and NOT "I trust the pResident". Of course they both mean the same thing but no matter. The meaning is the same but the wording is different and I stand corrected.

I'd also like to add I was recalling the speech from when it was delivered, live. I so clearly recall the sickening feeling in the pit of my stomcah during this particular Hillary sell-out. I'd stood by her through thick and thin, always willing to come to her defense throughout the Clinton WH years. Then came this speech.

She was willing to take Little Boots at his word. She trusted the guy to do the right thing. After 9/11 she stood on the Senate floor demanding answers, early on too. She knew he wasn't to be trusted on the whole 9/11 thing. She knew! But war? The world community? The opportunity to fast track the whole PNAC agenda (you know, that vast riech wing conspiracy she knew about years ago?) No, that's ok, he can be trusted on that!

So, nearly four years later, my recollection from that speech was right on general content, the words a bit off. The meaning's the same but I am sure that is immaterial to the Hillary warriors. One can triangulate on what she actually said which, of course is why it was said as it was.

So Hillary warriors, she was willing to take Jr's word and she did not offer up a precedent for opposing the CIC on matters of warfare. Rulers (or aspiring rulers) must always be mindful of such things. At least she didn't provide a precedent to be used against her for when she's President.

So, in light of this part of the discussion being deleted, thought I'd repost it in this counter-thread. I may have gotten the details wrong but the jist was not. There was no intentional deceit.

Julie--hoping to set the record straight

[IndianaGreen]

55. Hillary: "I will take the President at his word..."

Consider the background: millions of people marched against the war throughout the world. Bush's claims about WMDs were debunked in the British press almost as quickly as they were being made. Congress was flooded with letters, calls, and e-mails opposing the war. Despite all of that, Hillary chose to believe in Bush than to believe the people.

Add to that Hillary's public chiding of John Murtha's call for a troop withdrawal, and her vote against Kerry's troop withdrawal resolution, and then you begin to get an idea as to the sort of politician Hillary is, and the sort of President she would make (if elected).

[ruggerson]

56. Your OP is dishonest

It is based on a complete untruth.

[JNelson6563]

57. Nonsense

To take someone at their word is to trust them.

Sematics schemantics. Trust is trust. Get over it.

Julie

[mtnsnake]

58. You shouldve apologized to Clinton a long time ago but you didnt & you got busted

for your outrageously slanted crap you hurled around about Hillary as if it was candy. You don't even have the integrity now to post her whole goddamn sentence. Instead you take it out of context in a feeble attempt at prolonging the unjustice you started towards Senator Clinton.

Anyhow, after reading the remarkably crafted CYA speech Hillary delivered when she voted yes on the IWR, I noted that she said "I will take the pResident at his word..." and NOT "I trust the pResident". Of course they both mean the same thing but no matter.

Unfriggin real. You don't even have the decency to admit to that fabricated thread title of yours, which was NOT "I trust the President", as you're saying here, but "I Trust this White House". BTW, the meaning is not the same, not even close, especially since you only quoted part of her sentence and didn't have the integrity to at least include the entire paragraph.

What Clinton REALLY said was this:

Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

That's a far cry from her saying what you fabricated in that despicable thread of yours "I trust this White House".

[wyldwolf]

59. JNelson has an agenda

You think her Hillary routine is bad, wait and watch her head explode if Wes Clark jumps into the race.

[mtnsnake]

61. No kidding. Even her clarification post is a crock

If she really wanted to clarify it all, she'd admit she fabricated what Clinton said and apologize for it. It's no surprise, too, that Indiana the Green is still taking her lies and running with them upstream in this thread, even though both of them have been busted. The more they talk the bigger fools they make outta themselves.

[madfloridian]

66. Could you explain something?

Bill and Hillary were two of the people who knoew Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Why didn't they speak up and keep us from going to invade that country?

Time to ask the hard questions.

Her silence on the issue, her going along, made it hard for others to speak up...as they knew she and Bill had recently left the WH where they had been for 8 years.

[mtnsnake]

68. Only if you start a thread with that question. This has nothing to do with that

Now run along.

[PassingFair]

71. In a time of darkness and fear.

When America was looking for leadership, perhaps
the two most prominent democrats were Hill and
Bill.

They could have stood against the IMMORAL and
ILLEGAL ANGLO-AMERICAN INVASION of IRAQ.
They choose to:

Remain on the SIDELINES (Bill)

AUTHORIZE the invasion (Hill)


SOME leadership.

They had a chance to lead us when it counted.

They DID NOT.


Most of our DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES VOTED to lead our
COUNTRY AWAY FROM THIS INVASION.

This was NOT an OOPS.

Over 600,000 people have died as a DIRECT RESULT.
We have spent BILLIONS of dollars.
Political expediency?

FUCK THAT.

[PassingFair]

62. You make me LAUGH! "I will take the President at his word..."

Split HAIRS much?

Hillary DID trust Little Boots. Even when it was
clear that Powell and others KNEW the "intelligence"
was dodgy. It was expedient for her to do so.

:rofl:

Agenda....:rofl:

Julie makes an opinion post on a message board and
she has an AGENDA....oooohhh SCARY.

Unlike YOU two MOOKS, right?


:rofl:
:rofl:

On Edit: In case you like pretty pictures!



Love is in the air...everywhere they look around....love is in the air...

[madfloridian]

63. Baloney, she said it, just used different words.

"Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible."


Please don't forget that Bill and Hillary Clinton were two people who knew that Iraq did not do 9/11. Yet read what she said:

"And finally, on another personal note, I come to this decision from the perspective of a Senator from New York who has seen all too closely the consequences of last year's terrible attacks on our nation. In balancing the risks of action versus inaction, I think New Yorkers who have gone through the fires of hell may be more attuned to the risk of not acting. I know that I am."

She KNEW Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. She and Bill should have spoken out. Instead, she pandered and waffled.

And this is just another way of sayig she trusted him. A man who in a year in office had already proved he could not be trusted.

"So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

Thank you, Mr. President."

[madfloridian]

64. Didn't say baloney to you, Julie....responded to wrong post.

In fact I was agreeing with you.

[mtnsnake]

65. What took you so long to chime in on the big lie?

I thought you were hibernating or something.

It comes as no surprise to anyone who knows you that you would side with the couple of other people perpetuating the lie. LOL!

[madfloridian]

72. Bill and Hillary knew Iraq was no threat to us. Why didn't they speak up?

Hey, you can attack me all your want, but they let us attack an innocent country when they had to have known.

[rinsd]

67. So you lied, got nailed for it and offer a weasely excuse

One wonders why you seem to have such trouble with Hillary in the terms you cast her in.

[Bake]

69. Interesting spin on the flag-burning legislation.....

She did it to WARD OFF a proposed Const. amendment????? REALLY???

And all this time I thought it was just pandering ...

Bake

[k_jerome]

74. hey, whats up with facts and sources? no fair. nt.