I live near the Clintons

[Ignacio Upton]

Hillary Clinton has effectively been my "neighbor" since she and Bill moved into the area known as northern Westchester in 1999. I live in Mount Kisco, NY which is the town bordering Chappaqua to the north. I periodically drive by their house en route to buy something in Chappaqua and to me, I've grown accustomed to just thinking "oh, Bill and Hillary live there." Personally I've never met them, but people in my family and some of my friends have. They're pretty nice.

But if Hillary has really just been spending the last seven years living in our area, using my state and my region as a stepping stone to get back into the White House, then I will be very disappointed.

She is a good Senator, but I don't like being used and told that she genuinely wants to represent the voters of New York when she just sees us as a section on her resume. For the sake of consistency, I don't like how Dubya used the voters of Texas (and the residents of Crawford, especially) so he could exact his Oedipal revenge and reclaim the White House. I don't like Jeb either for bilking the residents of Florida for the same reason (ultimately, it didn't work, because his brother has tarnished their name to the point that Jeb won't be electable in 2008, thankfully.)

I hate dynasties and I hate being used. If Senator Clinton is sincere in wanting to represent us, then she should remain a Senator.

I will NOT vote for her in the primaries (I'm ABH in the primaries.) And while I will vote for her in the GE, it will be with very little enthusiasm and with a giant clothespin.

[BOSSHOG]

1. Your last paragraph reminds me of

the Louisiana gubernatorial race (in 90 I think) Democrat Edwin Edwards versus republican Statesmen and KKK grand wizard David Duke. The dems published a bumper sticker - VOTE FOR THE CROOK, ITS IMPORTANT.

Thanks for your two cents. Its important to me to hear from constituents of a contestant. I will vote for whomever the Dems nominate; to me ITS IMPORTANT. But I'm lukewarm on Hillary at best in the primaries. I'll support the General in the primaries.

My Senator is Trent Lott. Feel free not to support him for anything.

[Hippo_Tron]

51. I'd support Trent Lott for David Duke's old job

But then again, I don't think I get to vote in that election.

[buddysmellgood]

2. ...what if they have you over for dinner and ask for your support?

Awwwkwaaard :)

[Ignacio Upton]

5. Well they don't necessarily know who I am

But I'm sure they're very nice people in person...but I just don't like being used. I would feel the same way about Bush if I were a resident in Crawford (of course, Hillary is still better than the Idiot in Chief, even if she is also exploiting the voters of a state for a stepping stone.)

[Tellurian]

55. Oh, get over yourself..

Bobby Kennedy did the same thing. It's nothing new or scandelicious.
I'm glad they are there too. Where they are in easy reach of home on the weekends
to spend time with their family.

I'll provide the clothespin if it bothers you so much.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

66. Scandelicious?

I guess that was a misspelled word, but "scandelicious" has a nice sound!!!

All those Repuke scandals are "scandelicious" to us, anyway, since we love to see their hypocrisy exposed!!!

Excellent new word!!! :rofl: :rofl:

[partylessinOhio]

3. Oh? Really?

I don't like other things about Hillary but so what. If she runs, she runs.

If she wins, she wins.

I hope she selects a good running mate. If she wins I hope she takes that bus trip again to Washington for the Inauguration. It was the greatest. Those were days of hope and positive thoughts.

I want to come out of the black hole of Bush and war.

[ronnykmarshall]

4. Damn that Bobby Kennedy too!

[Ignacio Upton]

6. Bobby was reluctantly pulled in the race

He didn't want to run until it was obvious that Johnson wasn't going for another term.

[roamer65]

21. I still wonder what kind of president Bobby would have made.

I bet he would have been one of the greats and we would have been spared the "Nixon experience".

[ronnykmarshall]

36. Um ...... ok.

[durrrty libby]

7. "She is a good Senator" but

she might be "using me"
waaa:cry:waaa:cry:waaaa:cry:waaa


:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


Get a grip

:spank: :spank: :spank:

[Ignacio Upton]

10. Well...I don't like being used for that reason

I don't like being told (in 2000 especially) that she sincerely wants to represent me and voter residents of New York, done a Yankees cap and talk about how she's a New Yorker, and then use her Senate seat as a vehicle to triangulate and fund-raise her way back to the White House. If she wanted to do such a thing, she should have run for office in another state, like Illinois or Arkansas.

[xultar]

22. Wow. That's excatly how the freepers felt. They said she was a carpet-bagger.

How funny. So Freepers and DUers do have something in common.

Whooda fuckin thought. :rofl:

[MasonJar]

8. Why would you feel that Hillary ran for the Senate initially to be

the next president? From all accounts she has been a superb senator for New York. I wish we had her in Kentucky instead of Mitch "no election reform" McConnell or Jim Bunning, who is in the last throes of hardening of the arteries, which is better for us I guess than having a thinking-Bunning.

[Bark Bark Bark]

9. So Just Vote For Nader

"So your conscience will be clean."

[Ignacio Upton]

12. I would feel even dirtier voting for that POS

I'll only vote for Hillary because she will be better than McCain or Brownback or even Hagel. The Republicans aren't the party of Lincoln or Teddy or Ike anymore, so voting GOP in a Presidential election will never be a choice for me.

[CTyankee]

11. I would be thrilled to have her and him as a neighbor

My famous neighbor (well, 4 blocks over)was Joe Lieberman before he sold his house. I used to see him and Hadassah walking to shull on Saturdays. In those days, I liked him.

My cardiologist told me that he is invited to the Clinton's Renaissance Weekend (he is a good friend of Rose Styron, who got him the invitation). When he goes, he jokes to Clinton that he will be his cardiologist for the weekend. I was green with envy!

[Ignacio Upton]

13. Well, she's not LITERALLY my neighbor

It takes me about 15 to drive from my house to their's. But She and Bill do shop in my town a lot (as do most residents of Chappaqua, because my town has a lot of stores that surrounding towns don't have.)

[snowbear]

56. Me too CTYankee.. I can see me borrowing a cup of sugar from Big Dawg!

[kskiska]

14. I guess you wouldn't have voted for Bobby Kennedy, either.

Could it be he "used" NY as a steppingstone to the presidency?

[Ignacio Upton]

15. Apples and oranges

Bobby wasn't gunning for the White House from the onset of his run. He came into the race reluctantly. Hillary, OTHO, has made one triangulating vote on issues like Iraq and flag burning, even though New York is a fairly liberal state.

[CTyankee]

28. "Carpetbagger" was used against Bobby, tho. I remember that

campaign well. I was in Westchester County at the time (I lived in Dobbs Ferry). Some liberal Dems felt that Bobby was not "pure" enough and resented his pushing McCarthy aside, with his big Kennedy name and money and all. I liked Bobby but he was not without his liberal Democratic detractors at the time. Today he is lionized a lot more than before he was killed. He was considered an opportunist by some.

[Ignacio Upton]

34. He wasn't really a liberal until he spent him in the Senate

At least in terms of rhetoric. He was criticized as being too cautious in the area of Civil Rights while he was AG. But unlike Hillary, at least he ran on what he believed in in 1968 and didn't give a damn what people thought. He had newspapers calling him "Ho Chi Kennedy" for opposing Vietnam, and some of the things he spoke of during the campaign in rhetoric would be considered heresy in today's political environment. He moved to the left out of personal experience. With Hillary, she's just running for the sake of running.

[CTyankee]

46. Were you actually there in 1968?

I mean, I was 29 years old, a mother of 3 in Westchester County, at the time. I think he did move to the political left, but before that it was a rough time for him with liberals.

The New York residency thing was pretty transient, actually. What was really heated, as I remember it, was the debate over whether he was as pure a candidate as Eugene McCarthy, especially since McCarthy had started the antiwar political stuff and the feeling was that Bobby had just horned in on something he hadn't started.

What an interesting time! I was getting my sea legs as a new member of the progressive liberal party!

[Ignacio Upton]

49. I wasn't even alive in 1968

I'm not even old enough to remember when Westchester was still a Republican stronghold. It's hard to believe Westchester voted GOP from '68 to '92 without interruption.

[CTyankee]

53. Wow! Well, you are a newby compared to me.

I moved away from Dobbs Ferry in 1976, so I have been away a long time.

It is interesting how time has colored thinking about Bobby Kennedy. I am still not sure how I feel about him. I think he was "evolving" but he still had a lot of Kennedy baggage. He was considered more "politically devious" than JFK at the time, as I recall. There was something a little devious about Bobby.

However, I like to think of Bobby as he is thought of now. It is a more flattering picture, and I want to think of him as more of a progressive, than as a political coniver (sp?).

How sad to think of his political journey, only to meet an early demise! I think of him as a mystery.

[ronnykmarshall]

37. Hold on tight ....

Here comes a big SPIN!!

[durrrty libby]

40. I have read some threads here that were real dooseys,

but this one takes the cake




:silly: :crazy: :hurts:

[Infinite Hope]

16. She can genuinely want to represent NYers and still

be using it to some degree. Though remember she is not from Arkansas. She's been all over the place and was in NY for a while during campaigns in her younger years if I remember right (McGovern campaign perhaps). I'm sure she's at home in many states.

[Ignacio Upton]

17. That's why I said Arkansas or Illinois

Anyway, if she had decided to run for...Governor of Illinois, possibly in 2002, she would have done a better job than Blagojevich. At least in IL has can claim some historic residence there without it looking like pandering.

[Catherine Vincent]

18. You don't like being used yet you choose to drive by their home

every now and then just because. Okay. I would be thrilled if I lived in the same area as the Clintons. I'm stuck with living close to the elder Bush.....and Barbara.

[Ignacio Upton]

19. Like I said

I don't mind them (also, their house is by the main road into Chappaqua from my direction) and from what I've heard they're very nice in person. But I don't like the fact that, if she runs, then that confirms idea that she has been exploiting the area as a stepping stone.

[bluerum]

20. You have a historic couple living nearby. An excellent

senator, who while she may have voted in ways that some DU'ers don't agree with, is a humanist and has done well by NY. She is a brilliant classy woman. But in the end, she is a politician.

However I would trade Mitt Romney for Hillary Clinton any day. I grew up and lived in NY back in Mario Cuomo days. I would have voted for Hillary Clinton in a nano-second.

I now live in MA where we are finally getting rid of Mitt Romney none too soon. He too used his elected office, four measly years as a dolt of a governor during which he traveled around the country shaking hands, talking about what a great job he was doing, and being openly disdainful of the people in the commonwealth.

So count your blessings. At least Hillary Clinton does not openly insult the people of the state that she is working for.

You may be a stepping stone, but try to consider it your contribution to kicking the republikans collective asses out in 2008. I would much rather be a stepping stone for Hillary than the likes of Mitt Romney.

edit for grammar

[Ignacio Upton]

23. I guess I'm overreacting

I have said that I will still vote for her.

[xultar]

24. She's a good senator but you feel used. OKEY FUCKIN DOOKEY!

nice post.

[Ignacio Upton]

25. I've noticed in other threads that you've tried to suppress criticism of HIllary

for the sake of "unity." Well, Hillary deserves to be criticized. She's a good Senator and a nice person who lives in my area, but she's not infallible.

[xultar]

26. WTF. I'm not even a Hillary fan. Why not post positive things about who you LIKE.

QUIT DOING THE FUCKING REPUBLICANS WORK FOR THEM. :grr:

[Ignacio Upton]

27. This is primary season

And I will vote for her in the GE because she's the Democrat, and because the alternative will be worse.

[xultar]

29. Then why not post about WHO YOU LIKE? I don't get this negativity shit.

[Ignacio Upton]

30. I'm in the undecided column at the moment

But I'm leaning towards either Clark, Edwards, Obama or Bayh (I'm not a fan of Bayh, but he would help us on down-ballot races more than the other DLC candidates would...that means Hillary, Biden and Vilsack.) However, if Gore decides to run (personally, I don't think he will) then he will get my support and vote.

[xultar]

31. So. You don't know who you like so you post negative things about

those you don't.

OK. I don't get it but OK.

[ronnykmarshall]

38. December 2006 is PRIMARY SEASON for 2008???

Well I guess if CVS can put out Christmas stuff before Halloween ............

[JNelson6563]

48. Well, considering

I see you often making a big stink in any thread that might hint of criticism of HC one might get the impression you ARE a big Hil fan. Not to mention you don't just voice your disagreement once and move on, you post again and again and again in same thread, basically mocking or slamming anyone who dares to criticize....

If your going to contribute so heavily to a conversation and claim objectivity you may want to work a little harder on content.

Just sayin'.

Julie

[valerief]

32. I don't understand. While she's a senator, if she's a good senator,

how is she using you? Is she supposed to turn over the rest of her life being a NY senator?

[Ignacio Upton]

35. Because I've spent the last six years

Defending her from Republicans who have been saying "she's just using your vote to run for President." And I've had to hear about the "Hillary for President" bullshit emanating from the perennial Hillary-haters on the right in the form of the New York Post and NewsMax. She would be a decent President (especially since Bill would become "First Gentleman" or "First Husband") but I feel angry now after believing for the last six years that the idea of her running for President was simply a Republican fundraising tool.

[CTyankee]

54. Well, has she been a good Senator?

That's the only yardstick you can use to measure her performance.

Otherwise, you are just recylcling other people's stuff. Use your own intelligence and judgment.

[Ignacio Upton]

57. She's been good overall

But mostly on local and state issues. On national issues, she's gotten under my skin.

[CTyankee]

59. That is fair enough, then. I see your point.

Have your written to her, let your ideas be known?

It might be a good idea. I see her as an evolving person, not one I really could know at this point, altho I would support her in the GE as you would. I am open to her at this time.

[valerief]

60. Who cares what the Repubs say? Their attacks aren't valid. You

shouldn't treat them like they are. If she's good senator while she's a senator, that's all you can ask for. If she's using her senate position for a stab at the WH, so what? There's no inherent badness in any of that.

[election_2004]

63. Um, because she never even lived in the state!

If she had returned to her homestate of Illinois to run against Peter Fitzgerald in 2004, that would be legitimate. But she simply bought a house in NY so she could use it as a "stepping stone" for the presidency.

Anyone who believes she's been undecided about a presidential run this entire time is simply naive.

[valerief]

64. Are you saying she cannot understand the needs of New York

because she hadn't lived there before? I don't think New York has been in a bubble for the last 20 years. I'll bet she knew what to do for NY before she got elected.

[election_2004]

65. I'm not saying she couldn't represent NY

But it would have been better for her to relocate to the state and live there for awhile, before running for such a high public office. Oh, and it would have also been nice for her not to use that position as her de facto stepping stone to the presidency.

[MichiganVote]

33. Well if your vote criteria does not include people who have served

in public office, good luck finding a candidate to back.

[ElizabethDC]

39. I think that's unfair . . .

How do you know that she initially ran for the Senate as a stepping-stone for the White House? I mean, it may be the case, but I think if it really were true then she would have won in 2004, because had Kerry won that year she would have had to wait a long time for another race with no Democratic incumbent. She has said that she was reluctant to run for the Senate to begin with and that she wasn't necessarily sure whether or not she wanted to run for elected office. In 2000, she told the people of New York that she'd serve her full term, and she kept that promise. For these recent elections, she made no such pledge, and was honest that she may not serve all six years of her term as she hadn't yet made a decision about '08. She was honest about this, and her constituents could vote accordingly.

At the end of the day, if she's done what's good for New York, why complain? I'm sure she does care about the people of New York - I think after meeting your constituents and hearing abou the issues that affect their lives, it would be hard not to care. Regardless, the point is that we don't know her motives, but we do know that she's been a good senator. As a Floridian, I cared less about where Jeb Bush was from and more about how his policies affected me and my fellow Floridians.

[oasis]

41. (1)Hill doesn't need your permission to run. (2) Keep your damn dog off of her lawn.

:spank:

[Ignacio Upton]

42. 1. I'm a 15-20 minute drive from her house in the next town over

2. I don't own a dog...but that doesn't make me a cat person either. :)

[Sapphire Blue]

43. I'm having a deja vu moment. I could swear I read this exact same post a few months ago.

[Ignacio Upton]

44. Well Westchester is a big county

But this is the first time I've written this.

[SaveElmer]

45. Would you have not voted for Bobby Kennedy...

For the very same reason...after all he didn't even serve a full term as NY Senator before running for President...and if memory serves didn't even bother to buy a house in NY...

[Ignacio Upton]

47. I don't know about buying a house...

But there were two things different about Bobby:

1. He only entered the race in 1968 once pressured and when it looked like LBJ would not run again.

2. He didn't try to "go along to get along" like Hillary is on the war, flag burning, and abortion.

[SaveElmer]

50. Bobby Kennedy used New York to further his Presidential ambition...

He wasn't "pressured" to get into the race in 1968...he jumped in with both feet once LBJ bowed out...and in fact Eugene McCarthy supporters angrily decried Kennedy as an opportunist...

However, I am not going to bad-mouth Bobby Kennedy to make my point. That he moved to New York to further his political career means little in light of his other accomplishments.

Your points about Hillary are incorrect...however I have discussed them in other threads so will not repeat myself here!

[CTyankee]

62. Actually, her position on abortion is identical to Planned Parenthhood's

I know because I worked for PP of CT for 6 years. The "safe, legal and rare" formula was basically PP's opinion. I have studied Hillary's position on abortion as laid out in her speeches. She urges, as does PPC, more accurate medical information about sexuality and greater access to contraception to avoid unplanned pregnancies and, therefore, abortion.

So unless you do not agree with Planned Parenthood either you have to stop saying that she changed her prochoice position.

[election_2004]

52. Well then get ready to be disappointed

Because that's exactly why she ran for Moynihan's U.S. Senate vacancy.

Come on...do the Clintons believe we're dumb enough to buy the notion that there was NO ONE (not one single Democrat) in New York's congressional delegation who could have mounted a strong challenge to Giuliani? (before he dropped out of the race, that is)

[Ignacio Upton]

58. Had she not run, I think our candidate would have been Nita Lowey

Lowey represents central and southern Westchester, and I think she's in the NY-18. Right now Chappaqua is in her district, but I think Sue Kelly (who, thankfully, is gone and will be replaced with John Hall) had Chappaqua in the NY-19 before redistricting in 2002.

[election_2004]

61. You're probably right

I heard rumors that Lowey wanted to run for Moynihan's vacancy...but apparently, Judith Hope and other NY Democrats made some phone calls and "cleared the field" so Hillary wouldn't have any opposition from NY's Democratic congressional delegation.

It's disgusting and elitist.