People in highly taxed countries better off: report (CBC)

[eppur_se_muova]

Last Updated: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 | 12:44 PM ET
CBC News

People who live in countries with higher taxes enjoy lower rates of poverty, have more equal income distribution, more economic security for workers and can expect to live longer, suggests a new study from a left-leaning think tank.

Written by two Toronto tax law professors for the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, the report released Wednesday, is blunt.

"Tax cuts are disastrous for the well-being of a nation's citizens," say authors Neil Brooks and Thaddeus Hwong.

The study compares four high-tax Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Finland) with six low-tax Anglo-American countries (the U.K., U.S., Canada, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand).

The four Nordic countries scored better than the lower-taxed countries on most of the 50 indicators measured in the report, including:

* Rate of poverty, equality of income distribution, and economic security for workers.
* GDP per capita.
* Rate of household saving and net national saving.
* Innovation, including percentage of GDP spent on research and development.
* Growth competitiveness as ranked by the World Economic Forum.
* Rates of secondary school and university completion.
* Rate of drug use.
* Leisure time.
***
more: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/12/06/tax-policyalternatives.html?ref=rss

Some good reading in this article.

[aquart]

1. Funny how that works.

And one more thing: these people don't live lives dogged by fear: fear of losing everything with one bad break.

This is nation is petrified with fear. Most of it unnecessary, if our government got off its ass and did its job.

[hughee99]

2. And yet the suicide rate in those countries

is more than 40% higher on average than the in the six low-tax Anglo-American countries. You'd think will all of this going for them, they'd be much happier, in general.

[eppur_se_muova]

3. Maybe their freepers are committing suicide?

:shrug:

[Zodiak]

17. That's funny

and a snappy comeback, too!

[angstlessk]

4. Do you have a link to that? I googled and could not find any stats that

even come close to your statement?

[eppur_se_muova]

6. You can d/l the study here (link):

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/Reports/2006/12/ReportsStudies1507/index.cfm?pa=BB736455

table 12 Self-Realization Goals: Drug Use and Suicide Rate
angloamerican nordic canada u.s. finland
Drug users (% 15–64) <49> 11.6 3.8 10.8 11 2.9
Suicides <50> 11.1 15.2 11.7 10.4 21

see pp. 21-22

[hughee99]

7. Here's where I got it from...

Suicide Rates for men
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_sui_rat_mal-health-suicide-rate-males

Suicide Rates for women
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_sui_rat_fem-health-suicide-rate-females

Taking the suicide rates for men in the countries in question...
#9 Finland: 43.4 per 100,000 people
#23 Denmark: 24.1 per 100,000 people
#26 Australia: 21.5 per 100,000 people
#27 Canada: 21.5 per 100,000 people
#28 New Zealand: 20.5 per 100,000 people
#29 Sweden: 20 per 100,000 people
#30 United States: 19.8 per 100,000 people
#37 Norway: 17.7 per 100,000 people
#38 Ireland: 17.4 per 100,000 people
#47 United Kingdom: 11 per 100,000 people

And for women...
#10 Finland: 11.8 per 100,000 people
#13 Denmark: 11.3 per 100,000 people
#23 Sweden: 8.5 per 100,000 people
#28 Norway: 6.9 per 100,000 people
#32 New Zealand: 5.4 per 100,000 people
#33 Canada: 5.4 per 100,000 people
#36 Australia: 5 per 100,000 people
#40 United States: 4.4 per 100,000 people
#42 Ireland: 4.1 per 100,000 people
#51 United Kingdom: 3.3 per 100,000 people

I'll admit that I figured out the percentage for men was around 40% higher, but didn't factor in the women's percentage (I got lazy). Since all of the Scandinavian countries had higher rates though, I figured this would just increase the difference, so I just said it was greater than 40%

[eridani]

8. Data from World Health Organization

http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/

Sweden 19.7/M, 8.0/F
Finland 34.6/M, 10.9/F
Denmark 20.9/M, 8.1/f
USA 17.6/M, 4.1/F
Canada 19.5/M , 5.1/F

Belarus 63.6/M, 9.5/F
Hungary 47.1/M, 13.0/F
Lithuania 75.6/M, 16.1/F

Actually, Sweden and Denmark are not too far away from the US and Canada. Another poster mention correlation of winter depression with latitude--there is definitely a loose correlation. Also, considering the astonishingly high rates in Hungary, Belarus and Lithuania, and noting that Finland stands out among Nordic countries, some hypothesize a genetic link peculiar to Finno-Ugaritic people. (Turkey wasn't on the list)

The real determinant seems to be gender, with the rates for men anywhere from 3 to 5 times higher. Or maybe that just reflects men being better at following through, or more likely to use a gun.

[eppur_se_muova]

10. Can you say "former Soviet bloc"? Economic conditions are much worse there. nt

[eridani]

21. There are still some incredible differences among ex-Soviet countries

Georgia 4.8/M, 1.2/F Georgia is certainly as corrupt as any of the other ex-Republics, but a hell of a lot sunnier than Estonia and Lithuania.

Albania 2.4/M, 1.2/F
Romania 20.8/M, 3.9/F--not too different from North America, Norway and Sweden

When Finland, which is very similar to Norway and Sweden geographically (latitude) socially, culturally and economically, has double the suicide rate, I think you really have to consider genetics.

[A Simple Game]

5. Some of that probably is due to the weather

and darkness to daylight ratio.

[KitSileya]

12. Amen!

I can tell you that after over 50 days of continuous rain, and of going to work in darkness and getting home in darkness, I and many of my colleagues are pretty much counting the days 'till the sun turns. In Bergen, Norway, where I live, the sun rises at 0902hrs, and sets at 1515hrs (today is 3 minutes shorter than yesterday.) If we had normal winter weather, that wouldn't be a problem, but thanks to global warming, we have had the hottest autumn season ever (tho' not the wettest, that was last year.) When it snows, it's amazing how much lighter it gets, but with all this rain, it's just dark and wet and depressing. Because of lots of thunder, rain and wind, it's practically impossible to take a walk, which is one of the ways we get through the winter season, and skiing, our national sport? Forget about it.

It can make any person want to go to bed and never get up, let alone somebody depressed.

Of course, if I do get mental health problems I don't have to worry about losing my job. Or my house. Or not getting enough to eat. If I get physical health problems due to the weather, for example, if the rain exacerbates exczema to an unmanageable degree, as it did to one of my students, the prescription, paid by the government, is a 2 week trip to warmer climes.

[A Simple Game]

15. Hang in there, two more weeks and things start to go the

other way. Here in Northern New York our days are sunrise approximately at 7:00am until 4:30pm for sunset. about three hours and fifteen minutes longer than yours, and I thought we were bad off! I know what you mean about the snow, it does make it much brighter. We're getting some today.

Good luck and take care.

[KitSileya]

16. Thanks. I was really snappish at work today,

but then all of us are overworked, and sressed, and just looking forward to the Christmas holiday. We're teachers, and we really notice how our teenagers are having trouble with the weather - part of it is the chore it is to go outdoors for anything. Just walking to the bus stop gets your soaking wet. Because of the warm weather, we've had a lot more thunder and lightening than usual for this time of year, so we've had to turn off computers and tvs. All in all, we'll all be incredibly happy when the sun finally turns. I'm from a city about 600km north of Bergen, where it is even darker, but no midnight sun and corresponding noon night. I am certain I could never live North of the Arctic circle, that's for sure, even with the tax breaks and other advantages the government gives for those who choose to settle there.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. It's good to have someone who knows about these things from

experience.

[KitSileya]

19. :) A lot of Americans and Europeans don't realize

that the Scandinavian countries are on the same latitudes as Alaska, not the lower 48. It is a mistake I see my kids do frequently (I teach high school English.) In fact, when I lived in Eugene, Oregon, it constantly amazed me to see that the sun only shifted only a couple of hours in the morning and evening between summer and winter. This year, the contrast was extra huge, because of the incredible summer we had, with more nice weather than any of us could remember ever having.

Our summers and winters are radically different when it comes to light, but as I've mentioned, that has usually been allieviated by snow, which reflects light like crazy, and makes a place incredibly lighter. Now, with global warming, that has disappeared pretty much altogether in my coastal town, and it has been replaced with 5-10 degrees Celsius weather and rain. In fact, we had days in November that were warmer than days in June. For the first time ever they've had to start warning about pollen in the weather reports, because the plants are confused as well, and start blooming again.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. I would say that most Americans don't know how far north all of

Europe is or how far south Japan is.

For example, Minneapolis, a northern city by U.S. standards, is on the same latitude as Bordeaux, France.

However, Tokyo is on the same latitude as North Carolina, and when the Winter Olympics were held in Nagano, Japan (west-northwest of Tokyo) in 1998, those were the southernmost Winter Olympics ever.

[KitSileya]

23. That's interesting stats.

I knew that the lower 48 covers roughly the same latitudes as the Mediterranean and the lands bordering it to the north and the nouth - which is why I could never live in the South. I die everytime the temperature creeps above 28 degrees celsius (82 degrees Fahrenheit.)

I did not know about Japan. I didn't realize it was that far south - I have started working on a 'teach yourself Japanese' course because I want to learn the language, and I'd love to visit there. I guess I'll have to go in Spring or Autumn, then.

[Art_from_Ark]

26. Actually, Japan is a very long and narrow country

whose northermost point is approximately at the "nose" of Maine, and southernmost point (if you exclude Okinoshima Island) is approximately at the same latitude as Key West, Florida.

[Eurobabe]

24. Yep, I am at 48°08 N 11°34 E in Germany which puts me

roughly around the same latitudes as: Duluth, MN and Seattle, WA. It gives me a warm feeling to know that I am parallel to at least some US cities. :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Suicide rates

A further point to consider is that countries with high suicide rates tend to have low murder rates (e.g. Japan). People take out their negative feelings on themselves rather than lashing out at others.

When I lived in Japan, it struck me that they had "suicide news" in roughly the same proportion that American newscasts had "murder news."

[Mass]

22. I would like to see a suicide rate study from North to South on the

North American continent. My guess is that you would get the same type of discrepencies. The lack of sunlight and daytime has a direct relationship with these issues.

One of the treatments against depression is artificial sunlight.

[eridani]

9. Religiousity predicts lower suicide rates

--negatively associated with all other social goods, though.

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html

In sum, countries marked by high rates of organic atheism are among the most societally healthy on earth, while societies characterized by non-existent rates of organic atheism are among the most destitute. Nations marked by high degrees of organic atheism tend to have among the lowest homicide rates, infant mortality rates, poverty rates, and illiteracy rates, and among the highest levels of wealth, life expectancy, educational attainment, and gender equality in the world. The only indicator of societal health mentioned above in which religious countries fared better than irreligious countries was suicide.

Of course, it is essential to clearly state that I am in no way arguing that high levels of organic atheism cause societal health or that low levels of organic atheism cause societal ills such as poverty or illiteracy. If anything, the opposite argument should be made: societal health causes widespread atheism, and societal insecurity causes widespread belief in God, as discussed by Norris and Inglehart (2004) above.

<snip>

Of course, as with any grand sociological theory, there are holes. The glaring cases of Vietnam (81% non-believers in God) and Ireland (4-5% non-believers in God) prove to be exceptions to Inglehart and Norris’s analysis; Vietnam is a relatively poor/insecure country and yet quite irreligious, while Ireland is one of the wealthiest/most secure countries in the world, and yet very religious. But aside from these two glaring exceptions, the correlation between high rates of individual and societal security/well-being and high rates of non-belief in God remains strong.

[Hawkowl]

11. Duh.

No shit sherlock. Taxes are simply a way to improve society in a collective manner. If they are simply not heinous, twisted coporate welfare income redistributions.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. Note this in particular:

"Rate of household saving and net national savings"

The right-wing economists tell us that Americans have such low savings rates because the government takes too much in taxes and also provides Social Security, which is a disincentive to saving for one's retirement. They preach this relentlessly.

Yet one of the highest savings rates in the world is in Germany, which also has quite high taxes and a generous welfare system.

Here's my strictly personal take on it:

The prime obstacles to my saving more money are not taxes but health care costs (insurance premiums and co-pays, as well as uninsured dental work) and car expenses (gas, insurance, and especially repairs). It was far easier for me to save when health insurance costs were more reasonable ($111 a month with $10 co-pays--the good old days) and I didn't own a car.

Now insurance costs have gone through the roof, and for various reasons, I'm living in a city where I need a car.

Most American families these days have two or three cars, and their health insurance costs, like mine, are rising faster than inflation. If we had world-class public transit here, most families could probably get by with one car, and if we had single-payer health care with the entire population as the "insurance pool," our health taxes would NOT be as expensive as private insurance + deductibles.

[slackmaster]

25. Clearly we should raise the federal income tax to 100% for everyone

Then we'd all be in Paradise.