Can't believe I missed this - Scarborough AND Buchanan saying 'Kerry's right' ???

[blm]

SCARBOROUGH: Earlier, I asked Massachusetts senator and former presidential candidate John Kerry about the report and whether or not this is still a White House in denial.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Well, listen, you know what I think we ought to do today is take this study group and see if we can find some common ground with the president. If he says it`s not far from his policy, then let`s talk about how we`re going to really implement it.

But this study group does not do as much of the job as I think we still need to get done. You know, looking forward to 2008 is not going to satisfy a lot of Americans. Additional training is not going to resolve the problem of Iraq. As I said, it`s a problem of motivation. If the army itself is predominantly Shi`a, and those Shi`a are members of a militia and they are controlled by people who still have a different interest from the federal government, you`ve got a problem.

So this fundamental, I think, divide, is over what are we trying to now achieve diplomatically and politically, and that`s where I think the president may be either -- you know, either in denial or not yet ready to admit that he`s got to move in a new direction. But I hope ultimately, he will.

SCARBOROUGH: Your testimony in 1971, the end of that testimony now seems prescient and applicable to Iraq, that, you know, no man should be the last man to die in Iraq because of a failed policy.

KERRY: I believe that.

SCARBOROUGH: Do you sort of feel reverberations of 1971 all over again in this report?

KERRY: I feel reverberations in the sense, Joe, that the policy is a failed policy which was based on a lot of misleading and even in some cases untruths. And I think that a lot of the American people are very upset about that. But we care about those service people. I mean, they are extraordinary. They deserve our support. And the best way to support them is to get the policy right now. And I think that`s the foremost thing. I think the study group has really moved the debate, and that`s important for all of us as Americans because we need to get this policy right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH: With us again is Pat Buchanan. You know, Pat, I think John Kerry is exactly right when he says more training is not going to help the Iraq situation. As you pointed out before, our troops aren`t able to train them. Why do we think that we`re going to be able to -- as our combat troops leave, train them? So I mean, maybe the Bush administration is still in a state of denial, but this Iraq Study Group may also be in a state of denial, right?

BUCHANAN: I think you are dead on. I think -- and what John Kerry said -- a lot of these fellows are very militant Shi`as and Sunnis in the army. That is where their loyalty lies, Joe.

The fundamental point, it seems to me, of the Iraq Study Group is even though we cannot stay the course, we will be better off without 15 combat brigades in Iraq and pulling out half our troops, then we`ll be better off than we are today because we can rely on the Iraqi army, trained by the Americans that have departed. That doesn`t make sense to me. I mean...

SCARBOROUGH: That`s what John Kerry touched on. That`s what you`re touching on. That`s what a lot of people have got to be looking at. But you know, it seems to me, Pat, that so many Americans have been disgusted with this administration with their head in the sand that -- in the sand over the past several years that they may embrace this study commission report just because it`s an alternative. And yet, there don`t seem to be a lot of easy answers in this report, either, do there.

[Avalux]

1. I watched it - wondered if I was in some alternate universe.

My jaw just about hit the floor when Scarborough brought up Kerry's 1971 testimony, then when Buchanan agreed - yikes! :D

[wryter2000]

3. Buchanan always opposed the war

Because he's an isolationist, of course, but he never thought invading Iraq was a good idea.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. true, and he has been critical about the boy president

on other issues. While I disagree with many of his stances, it is sometimes pleasure to listen to him.

[blm]

8. when he doesn't wear his GOP hat he can actually think at times.

.

[blm]

6. For all the attacks on him, it will be the lasting legacy of that question from now on

that war policies will have to be filtered through in the future. I think too many people, even the right, have finally begun to realize the REAL MEANING in that simple question, and THAT is the significant difference from even two years ago.

[fadedrose]

15. Training the Iraqi Army

Kerry said: clipped..."If the army itself is predominantly Shi`a, and those Shi`a are members of a militia and they are controlled by people who still have a different interest from the federal government, you`ve got a problem."


This sort of answers what I've been wondering . . . who is the Iraqi army?

If Kerry is right, that means we'll be helping the Shia, which means we are taking sides in a civil war. Not a good idea. Too bad they can't or won't form an army comprised of Shia, Sunni and Kurd in a ratio to the population. It sounds so simple to a dummy like me.

[savemefromdumbya]

2. chickens coming home to roost?

[blm]

7. or GOPs counting number of dead AFTER stronger solutions were offered over a year ago?

I hope they remember this the next time they are inclined to doubt the Dems offering solutions in the future.

[sandnsea]

4. Political solutions are more important

I think he's trying to head off any notion that the ISG relies solely on troop redeployment. That's been the focus on the right and by the media, the purpose being AVOIDING WITHDRAWAL. If we don't get the focus shifted to diplomacy, the ISG is going to be dumped and we're going to be stuck with Bush's 'stay the course' again.

[beachmom]

10. You're exactly right, Sandnsea

There will not be a military solution in Iraq, only a political one.

[wisteria]

9. I saw it, it was unbelievable. n/t

[OzarkDem]

11. What difference does it make?

Unless their actions back up their words, its just a lot of hot air. So far we're not seeing much action, a little hot air and a whole lot of the same old same old.

[demdiva]

12. SHUT UP

I'm so sorry I missed that. Thanks for posting.

[pacalo]

13. I watched that & I was furious with Buchanan before the Kerry segment.

During a 4-way discussion between Scarborough, Buchanan, Michael Crowley, & Joan Walsh, a livid Buchanan yelled, "The Democrats voted for this war & gave the president a blank check to go on this idiotic crusade!"

Forget the "you're either with us or against us", the "you either support the troops or you don't", the "you're soft on terrorism if you don't go with the program" atmosphere back then, with the media crucifying those who spoke against this administration. Forget about this administration's lies to the country that made this idiotic crusade possible.

Let the hearings begin!

[carolinayellowdog]

17. He was right about the Senate, wrong on the House and overall

Hey,

Even someone as eminently sane and reliable (usually) as Sidney Blumenthal spread the false meme in a Salon article that the Democrats in Congress strongly supported the IWR. In fact, 126 Democratic House members voted no versus 81 who voted yes. Alas the Senators were far less wise and responsible, with 29 Democratic Senators voting for the greatest mistake in American history and only 22 opposing it. Still, the total combined leaves us with 148 no, 110 yes, so it is absolutely false for Buchanan to say "the Democrats voted for the war." I'd call it a malicious lie except I think Buchanan believes it just as Blumenthal did when he wrote it(and Salon did not correct the error when I sent them a correction.)

Even though I like Edwards and Kerry and voted for them gladly, I can never excuse them for making this worst vote of their careers. (Forgive, yes, especially Edwards who has apologized-- but excuse, no.) The excuses you offer for the poor misled Dems in Congress ignores the fact that the majority of them were NOT misled, and many gave extremely well-argued and persuasive (persuasive to 90%+ of DUers at the time) speeches on the floor. Byrd called it the Tonkin Gulf Resolution all over again; Feingold gave an extremely prophetic and stirring speech.

A substantial majority of Congressional Democrats did the right thing, which pulls the rug out from under the excuses made for the minority who followed political fashion instead of wisdom or conscience.

CYD

[WildEyedLiberal]

18. Um, Kerry apologized too

Seriously, why does Edwards get credit from everyone from renouncing his vote but Kerry gets none, even though he has explicitly renounced it at least SIX TIMES?

Watch his speech from the Taking Back America conference in June. Watch pretty much any of his speeches about Iraq. Edwards says something once and it's common knowledge but Kerry says something over and over and over and over and people who are supposedly politically aware have no clue..... good GOD.

[carolinayellowdog]

20. "Should have known better" applies more to Kerry than JE

Don't you think, in light of Kerry's personal history with Vietnam and status as a longstanding MA Senator who had nothing to lose by in job security by voting rightly, that he has less excuse for being bamboozled by Republican maniacs than a one-term Senator from NC with no previous political experience?

I'll prefer an outright anti-war Dem to either of them in 2008. If a candidate was fooled by idiocy that 90% of DUers saw through in 2002, what does that say about his or her credibility the NEXT time Republicans gin up an imaginary danger? And if they weren't fooled but went along for the ride out of political expediency?

[WildEyedLiberal]

23. This debate has happened thousands of times on DU already

The IWR did not say, "let's go to war in Iraq right now." If it did, we would have invaded in October 2002, when the vote occured, rather than March 2003. The vote authorized Bush to use the THREAT of force in order to get weapons inspectors into Iraq, and mandated that use of force would have to be approved multilaterally through the UN. A vote for the IWR was just that; a vote for that process. Which Bush violated. Which is obviously the Senate's fault. :eyes: If you think, had IWR been defeated, that Bush would NOT have gone to war, you are very, very naive.

Although if you're determined to blame a Senator for the IWR, you might be aware that John Edwards wrote the bill and sponsored it. So saying he has "less excuse" for voting for the bill HE WROTE is pretty disingenuous.

[LittleClarkie]

24. In light of his history in Vietnam, I'd say he followed just about the same pattern as back then

In 1968 he had his doubts about the war, but went off to see it himself anyway. Took him all the way to 1971 to feel strongly enough to go out and protest and make his famous speech. Took him about as long this time too, giving it every opportunity to work out before he said, "No more".

This is not a ferrari. This is a station wagon.

[LittleClarkie]

14. Armageddon! Dogs and cats living in sin! Ieeee!

Wow.

[fadedrose]

16. Training the Iraqi Army

Kerry said: (clipped)..."If the army itself is predominantly Shi`a, and those Shi`a are members of a militia and they are controlled by people who still have a different interest from the federal government, you`ve got a problem."


This sort of answers what I've been wondering . . . who is the Iraqi army anyway?

If Kerry is right, that means we'll be helping the Shia, which means we are taking sides in a civil war. Not a good idea. Too bad they can't or won't form an army comprised of Shia, Sunni and Kurd in a ratio to the population. It sounds so simple to a dummy like me.

[KoKo]

19. Larry Kudlow tonight on CNBC said Kerry's right about not raising taxes

on the Rich and agreed that he's a Dem that he can work with.

Interesting>

[karynnj]

21. Rather a mistatement - he said that he wouldn't raise the

highest tax about 39% - which rolls back the tax cut on the top marginal income rate. Kerry never said he would do more than roll back the tax cuts on the wealthiest.

[blm]

22. Kerry is FOR ROLLING BACK taxcuts on rich to PAY FOR WAR BUDGET, and for closing

loopholes that corporations use to avoid taxes.

If Kudlow said Kerry's not for raising taxes AT ALL, then he's confusing Kerry not wanting taxes raised overall and on small businesses - because Kerry ran on ROLLING BACK the taxcuts to the top 1%, but not to tax more.

[w4rma]

25. That's my understanding also. (nt)