"Edwards aide seen as pit bull"

[Catchawave]

Welcome to Team Edwards: David Bonior :toast:

...Bonior is the new face in the Edwards camp. He is a high-profile Democrat whose appointment reinforces Edwards' efforts to build bridges to organized labor, environmental groups and party progressives as he tries to outflank New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on the left.

Bonior is also a hard-nosed and passionate working-class politician who repeatedly questioned Gingrich's ethics and was independent enough to oppose his own president, Democrat Bill Clinton, on trade issues.

"Bonior brings a whole lot of political savvy," said David Rohde, a Duke University presidential scholar who watched Bonior in action in Michigan for decades. "He is a very smart and capable guy. He brings a whole host of political contacts."

"He has the same kind of populist appeal ," Rohde said. "I think this suggests that that thrust will continue."

To an unusual degree in the vagabond world of political campaigns, Edwards will start the 2008 presidential race with his 2004 team largely intact. When Edwards political insiders gathered in Washington last week for a Christmas Party, Bonior was the newcomer....

snipped from: http://www.newsobserver.com/114/story/520248.html

[The Count]

1. "Outflank Hillary on the left????" The guy who would have started a war

if he were president? 2 wars actually...
Some chutzpa this guy has!
And since some will again wonder:


MATTHEWS: OK. I just want to get one thing straight so that we know how
you would have been different in president if you had been in office
the last four years as president. Would you have gone to Afghanistan?

EDWARDS: I would.

MATTHEWS: Would you have gone to Iraq?

EDWARDS: I would have gone to Iraq.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3131295 /

I'll take Hillary over Edwards in a NY Minute (but I really want a candidate who didn't support the war)

[Catchawave]

4. Nothing sez Edwards thread like

talking points from the "right".

Yet, Hil still supports the "wars" too :shrug:

[PeaceProgProsp]

8. I remember "Two Americas." I don't remember "Two Wars."

But I feel like some people are trying to implant that memory.

[The Count]

13. That's why I posted the quote. To refresh that memory.

Edwards support for the was was so enthusiastic, Little Boots had quotes on his campaign site.

[Catchawave]

28. Sad. Let me continue.....

Sad.

:cry:

[PeaceProgProsp]

55. I paid close attention and Edwards was the class monger, not war monger

I'd rather have a president who puts class issues first, than one who talks only about war (and talks out of both sides of his mouth, which was what I remember from the other leading candidates in 2004).

[seashorelady]

68. Edwards tells the truth

He has integrity. The truth isn't always pretty, but that is what you can expect from him.

[karynnj]

69. Other than Lieberman, Edwards was the most pro-war

in the primaries. No one spoke only about war and terrorism in 2004, though they were big issues.

Senator Kerry had what was considered the best healthcare plan and was the first to have ads on the environment. In recent years, his view linking research and development of alternative fuels and energy efficencient technologies with creation of good jobs and improvement of the environment has been stolen by many people since then.

As to the war, Senator Kerry's views were consistent from the summer of 2002 where he was against Bush's preemtive war and favored the UN and its inspectors. He, not Edwards, spoke out when Bush violated his promises publicly made to Congress and said that diplomacy and inspections were not exhausted and said we should not rush to war - and we should go to war only as a last resort. This was not a lightly held concept - but the basis of the Augustinain definition of a just war - as Kerry explained in his Pepperdine speech. From their comments in early 2003, I know kerry wouldn't have gone to war.

It is Edwards - who has changed his position radically.

[PeaceProgProsp]

72. Please. You can't criticize the guy for giving the "Two Americas"

speach over and over again (which is not about war) and then accuse him of being the most pro-war'-04 candidate.

His focus was perfectly clear, and he set it out in that speech. It's absurd to think that if Edwards had been elected president we would have been engaged in imperialist wars without end.

Edwards was not the candidate who's principal campaign ad was of himself walking through Vietnamese jungles toting an M16. He wasn't the candidate who chose to ONLY talk about Iraq and arguing that he would have done it better. He was the candidate who talked about class and poverty and said that that would be the war he'd fight.

[The Count]

17. Talking points from the right? HIS OWN WORDS?

I POSTED HIS OWN WORDS. NO ONE'S INTERPRETATION.

[Catchawave]

25. Out of context and outdated quotes ?

He's moved on and evolved, have you? I don't even think any candidate can pass your smell test? I have an arsenal of "out of context" quotes....ask me anything!

I think what's important is the "what have we learned", not some vile attempts to broad brush any Dem candidate with fugly smears :shrug:

So, my dear Count, stop peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining. It's the umteenth time I've seen those quotes on DU, nobody's denying he SAID them, but your intent, well, just not Democratic.

[The Count]

29. The context is there - the link. Warmongering is NOT outdated - quite timely

and relevant. So, whatever preoccupation you have with my urinary activities, know I'll do the same for every warmonger of any party lunatic enough to have 2008 ambitions. Biden, Bayh, Hillary & the rest - but at least they don't call themseves "lefties" like Mr patriot Act here.

[AtomicKitten]

19. why do some folks construe

factual information that perhaps is not flattering to their preferred candidate as RW spin? We really need to understand claiming that is nothing short of manipulation. Kerry also continued to support the invasion and would not retract his vote before the 2004 election http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52839-2004Aug9.html and that fact is also labeled RW spin. The truth is both men voted yes on the IWR and continued to support the war before the 2004 election, and it was not until after the election when polling indicated Americans were turning away from the war did these men retract their IWR vote and come out against the war. That is the truth and there is no political spin on it other than from those that seek to quash it for self-serving purposes.

[patrice]

6. I'm sorry to say that is pretty strong evidence of how a person's thinking

can be affected by some things, in this case, affected by something like NASCAR dads.

But then, to be fair, perhaps he wasn't reacting to the NASCAR dad's, but to the facts as he saw them, then we need to talk about how wrong a person can be.

In either case, I also will not vote for someone who hasn't at least discussed these facts.

[question everything]

9. You may not like this but most Americans supported, still do,

the war in Afghanistan since it was clear that this was bin Laden's base.

And based on what was known about Iraq, many supported it at the time, too.

The mistake that Bush and Cheney did was sticking around long after the fall of the Saddam regime and their arrogance in shutting off Germany and France when rebuilding was still a viable option. Their sticking around justified the notion that oil, not WMD and not ruthless dictator was the reason for the invasion.

Give Edwards credit for not pandering for the voters who now have changed their minds. What he is saying is that, given what was known then, he would have followed the same path.

Edwards wants to be the president of all Americans, not just far left DUers.

Has anyone asked Clinton how she would have acted on these two wars?

[ultraist]

12. Edwards is calling to bring the troops home

HERE and NOW:

Edwards is calling to bring our troops home now with a pullout of 50k immediately and the remaining within 18 months, unlike prospective candidates Clark and Hillary. Clark said we should not start bringing the troops home now and Hillary pretty much stands totally with Bush on this issue too.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/28/clark.presidential.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Clark: "Neither would he begin reducing U.S. forces in Iraq within the next six months, as others have suggested.

"It's not a matter of fiddling with troop levels," Clark said

http://oneamericacommittee.com/news/headlines/wp20051113/

The Right Way in Iraq

An Op-Ed by Senator John Edwards
Washington Post
Nov 13, 2005

I was wrong.

Almost three years ago we went into Iraq to remove what we were told — and what many of us believed and argued — was a threat to America. But in fact we now know that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction when our forces invaded Iraq in 2003. The intelligence was deeply flawed and, in some cases, manipulated to fit a political agenda.

It was a mistake to vote for this war in 2002. I take responsibility for that mistake. It has been hard to say these words because those who didn't make a mistake — the men and women of our armed forces and their families — have performed heroically and paid a dear price.

The world desperately needs moral leadership from America, and the foundation for moral leadership is telling the truth.

While we can't change the past, we need to accept responsibility, because a key part of restoring America's moral leadership is acknowledging when we've made mistakes or been proven wrong — and showing that we have the creativity and guts to make it right.

[The Count]

15. Yup. The wind blows the other way these days...Even Jr tries to make believe

he changed. Edwards's judgement disqualifies him from leadership (Hillary's too, BTW)

[ultraist]

18. Oh, please...

Even Jr? Is that the best you can do, smears?

People do make mistakes and it takes good judgment and integrity to admit them as well as make amends (work for a better way).

But then again, some people view themselves as flawless, I suppose.

Clark also said he would have voted FOR the war: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0919-01.htm

[LittleClarkie]

21. He didn't have to vote that conviction,

so I guess it doesn't count.

Dean supported the war at its inception too. Once a war has started, folks generally try to be supportive despite what they may have thought just before the war. That may be responsible for some of these quotes. Or perhaps they believed the "evidence" Bush jinned up. Or perhaps they were done it by the horrible atmosphere that was created when the war started. It was near blasphemy to utter a word against the Iraq War at its beginning. People were still in the throes of 9/11 patriotism, something Bush capitalized on.

Whatever happened and whatever various Dems said at the time, this is still Bush's damned war.

[ultraist]

23. Yes, it's Bush's war!

Good point and while most Dems supported it at the onset, most are now doing the right thing now by calling to bring our troops home, although Clark and Hillary are not.

[LittleClarkie]

24. Indeed. Clark has something of a plan so I can live with him, but Hillary still

supports the war. I guess I should count that in her favor, because I don't often give her credit for supporting unpopular things.

But both Kerry and Edwards have said they were wrong and both are calling for the troops to come home. I'm sick of hearing about their IWR votes from folks who's candidates didn't have that burden, and esp when these men have apologized.

[ultraist]

26. Agree

What's past is past, they corrected their mistakes and now it's time to move on.

Hillary on the other hand...continues to support Bush's war which is unacceptable.

[AtomicKitten]

42. I find it

absolutely appalling that the gravity and implications of the IWR are dismissed with very little, if any, thought given to the hundreds of thousands of lives lost. Changing one's mind doesn't reanimate them. This was a rubber meets the road vote. This is Bush's war and the Democrats played along like good little soldiers to cover their political behinds in the upcoming elections in both 2002 and 2004. The fact that the cosmic revelation of the "wrongness" of the vote didn't come until after these elections makes it very difficult, in fact impossible, for some to swallow.

[GreenArrow]

66. "the "wrongness" of the vote "

Curiously, those on the retracting side of IWR always focus on the "wrongness" of their vote, rather than on the inherent wrongness of what they were voting for, another sign that indicates to me that their apologies (such as they are) are disengenous; they frame their mea culpas as apologies without actually apologizing for anything other the political harm they may have done to themselves; rather, their "vote was wrong" or a "mistake". I don't believe the words "I'm sorry" have actually come up in any of the more prominent "apologies". To my cynical eyes, it's CYA.

[citizen snips]

41. that has been posted a million times

and it is not the status quo.

[demnan]

2. He's not the only pitbull on the Edwards team

I know of another.

[Catchawave]

5. Do tell :)

Or is this 20 questions?

[demnan]

22. Not yet

You'll know in good time.

[Catchawave]

32. Really?

RK's Lowell? PM me if I'm right :bounce:

On Edit: I do know about Webb's Mudcat, but I thought everyone did?

[PeaceProgProsp]

3. Why is Edwards the only '08 candidate cultivating labor vote?

This is tipping the scales in his favor, as far as I'm concerned. But shouldn't more Democrats be this overt in their support for working people?

[Catchawave]

7. Edwards has been walking the talk for

quite some time. I don't think he fears the corporations since he spent his professional life defending the little guy against them.

[tulip]

36. He's always had

a good relationship with labor. The other 08er who has a relationship with labor is Senator Bayh.

I don't know about the rest.

Edwards is close with the Restaurant & Hotel labor and Bayh is tight with the UAW. This is not new. They have both been long time friends and supporters of labor.

[Catchawave]

38. Thanks, I like Bayh too.....

And why I rather like discussing the positives of all our Dems rather than deflecting those RWer talking points.

Sidebar: You know who you are. Stop it, just Stop it!

[seashorelady]

63. Unions

Edwards comes from a humble background. He believes in the unions, his dad was a union man as well as his only brother.

[citizen snips]

64. welcome to DU

:hi:

[seashorelady]

67. Mattman

Thank you for the welcome

[Larry Allen]

10. the republicans really fear edwards

[AtomicKitten]

16. how do you know that?

Why do people say the Republicans fear so-and-so? IMO that's self-serving bullocks.

Oh, and welcome to DU!

[Catchawave]

27. It's true....

Republicans feared Edwards in 2004 also, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Kerry in Open Primaries :shrug:

Then again, I'm not an expert, but there were no GOP Primaries in '04.

[AtomicKitten]

33. it's true?

Are you seriously asserting that you know what the Republicans, en masse no less, think?

According to your standard, the Republicans fear every favored potential candidate as asserted here at DU on any given day.

By that same standard, they are also afraid of clowns, bees, and milk. Just cuz.

[Catchawave]

34. Yes, yes I do....

Republicans feared Edwards MOST in 2004, I'm married to one. AND, I worked Pat Robertson's district in '04, probably the worse "en masses" in my neighborhood's voting district, but we did win Gov Kaine in '05, but lost Webb in '06.

I can't speak for DU, but I know Dem bashin'n'fearin' posts when I see them. Aren't you a Clark supporter....? Suppose I post the text to his School of the Americas graduation speech. How fair would that be against snippets from a Chris Matthews interview with a sitting Senator/VP nominee.

En Masse? I live in the trenches, do you?

[AtomicKitten]

40. good luck to you

on your campaign to quash the truth here at DU. You will find takers that choose to believe select versions of the truth for self-serving purposes, and then there are others that care about the unvarnished truth in their deliberations. Your threats to "expose" other candidates are indicative of a really lame approach to politics. I have made my preferences clear; did you notice the picture in my sig line? Please feel free to post whatever you want. I have every confidence that concerned and involved DU'ers will sift through the propaganda and manipulations and find the truth. Again, good luck on your campaign.

[Catchawave]

46. "quash the truth" ?

Methinks DUers need to get out in Real World. I'm not threatening other "candidates", yes, I love Gore too, at least you didn't post him with "man boobs" and I thank you for that.

I'm an oppositional researcher, I know what I'm doing. :toast:

[AtomicKitten]

49. you might start

by telling the truth since it so readily available.

Claiming this:

I'm not threatening other "candidates"

When you said this:

Aren't you a Clark supporter....? Suppose I post the text to his School of the Americas graduation speech. How fair would that be against snippets from a Chris Matthews interview with a sitting Senator/VP nominee.

And, FTR, you might want to point that "oppositional research" (reads: excavating dirt?) in the direction of Republicans instead of at fellow Democrats.

A good start would be understanding what constitutes the truth and what constitutes trashing. Calling a candidate's actual quote on policy RW spin is seriously lame.

Good luck on your own particular campaign of spin.

[Catchawave]

57. Nah...

This is DU, always the DU....Love your sig photo, but not sure my friends, the Gores, would agree with your positions with other candidates' supporters. We all have positions, our truthiness, right? Good luck to you too. Al and Tipper send their best :hi:

[citizen snips]

44. maybe it is because Edwards has a high likability rating.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15924584/page/2/

[AtomicKitten]

47. so does Obama

But I still would never presume to declare what the Republicans think.

[citizen snips]

50. that determines a big part of it

because Edwards is a southerner and that is the last thing the republicans want is a likable democrat from the south.

[Catchawave]

51. You don't think the Republican's are

not paying attention to Obama either?

Of course they are :hug:

[AtomicKitten]

52. "paying attention to" and "fear" are two very different things.

[Catchawave]

59. ??

Cool beans ... we may be on the same page afterall AtomicKitten :toast: I think :D

[AtomicKitten]

60. stranger things have happened

http://brud.info/

[The Count]

53. Likeability, electability - MSM made BS, have a beer with him, why doncha?

I want a president who doesn't start wars. From those who are in, Kuchinich is my guy. I may change later, as I have more choices, but no warmonger is "likeable" in this house. Anyway, if that poll is your guide, Rudy is your man. Or McCain.

[citizen snips]

54. you continue to ignore the status quo

Edwards is not a warmonger because he is now strongly speaking out against the war.

[Catchawave]

62. I really like Dennis too Count,

So why are we fighting :D

Actually, in my perfect world, I would have left my husband and run off with Paul McCartney. :toast:

[venable]

71. Repubs did fear Edwards most

what would be the best way to determine what most republicans think?

polls. the polls they do for their own work, not the public ones - the Marists, and Zogbys and network polls.

I know one of the more active private pollsters for the Republicans. Please forgive that I can't say who he/she is, as it would not be fair to them. And because I can't say who it was, I respect that you can just dismiss what I say. But it is how I heard it.

This person told me repeatedly that Republican leadership did not want to have to run against Edwards.

I think that it had to do with his biography and the pan-spectrum appeal. He was too hard to demonize.

In addition to that person telling me this, another acquaintance told me that Rove said the same to him, at the very beginning of the primary season. He said Rove would go after his youthfulness (not his lawyering), but that Edwards was the most difficult target amongst the primary candidates.

Take it for what it's worth.

[ultraist]

20. Welcome to DU, Larry!

:hi:

I agree. Edwards has polled as having the widest appeal of any Dem candidate and the right fears him as the most electable candidate, as they should.

[Catchawave]

30. Welcome ditto from me too.....

What Larry said, and Welcome... :toast:

Seriously guys, I live in Pat Robertson's voting district, and it was a big joke in '04....to vote for Al Sharpton! Yeah, Kerry won Virginia, but we lost an election.

We must work smarter, not harder.....:grouphug:

[stray cat]

11. Edwards supports working Americans

which means most of us. Wages from work should be valued over estates and dividends when it comes to tax breaks. Edwards is the only candidate I've heard say that. So far I like what I see of Edwards.

[ultraist]

14. Yes, Edwards has worked tirelessly for working Americans

Edwards is strongly in favor of strengthening unions as he has said many times, including in his address to the National Press Club Policy: http://oneamericacommittee.com/news/speeches/20060622/

Just last week, he recieved the Paul Wellstone award for leaders who "who take a strong stand for workers' freedom to form unions and who fight for social and economic justice." You can watch VIDEO highlights from this award ceremony here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O4zABjzlBU

Edwards also has been very active in the fight to raise minimum wage.

Obama, on the other hand, is aligned with the "Rubinomics" camp who is very anti labor unions: http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/12/clinton_reaches_1.html

[Catchawave]

35. Also, from the article I posted from the NewsObserver..

Few Democratic congressmen were closer to organized labor, a group that Edwards has heavily courted since 2004. Bonior notes that Edwards has walked picket lines all across the country and, on Friday, received the Paul Wellstone Award from the AFL-CIO, the most prestigious award given by labor.

"His activism speaks loudly," Bonior said. "He has not only talked the talk, but he has walked the walk."

He walked the talk ! Not to mention, every one of the Minimum Wage initiatives were passed in every state he campaigned for.

Oh, and that Wellstone Award was nice too :toast:

[MeanBone]

31. Gephardt got 11% in Iowa, Edwards 32%. If most of...

...Gephardt's support (primarily union) goes to Edwards, he could clear 40%. Then comes Nevada...

[Armstead]

37. Edwards' stock just went up with me

I'm glad Edwards is aligbning himself with a good liberal, labor guy. Need morre of that and less Corporate Beltway Flacks.

[citizen snips]

39. I thought I had dibs on the N&O articles.

but thats okay catchawave. :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=257x516

[Catchawave]

43. Love that Supporters Group!

Thanks Matt ! Great minds think alike :toast:

[citizen snips]

45. I just sent this thread to the greatest page.

:woohoo:

[Catchawave]

48. .

:applause:

Thanks Matt :toast:

[Carolina Voice]

56. Edwards is a visionary...

He's the candidate for 2008! Then, he's presidential material.

[w4rma]

58. I like Edwards. (nt)

[thatsrightimirish]

61. I like Edwards

How come Al Gore is the only politician that is allowed to change around here? He has repeatedly apologized for voting for the war and that is good enough for me. He actually represents the majority of Americans when he first supported the war and now he wants to get out of it. The Republicans label that as "flip flopping", but in their definition a majority of Americans are flip flopper's and I don't think that will go over to well.

[Clarkie1]

65. Edwards is a lot like Obama, and I don't see how he can compete with Obama.

They both have similar strengths and weaknesses, and will appeal to the same people in my view. In the end, I think Obama trumps Edwards because he is even fresher and doesn't have the baggage of a poor performance in the 04' general election.

Anyone for a young, relatively inexperienced, charismatic one-term senator?...please line up at table O or E.

[Strawman]

70. Wow. Edwards might have just won my county right there

I suspect Edwards just grabbed a good chunk of the very best Dem activists in a key part (Macomb County) of a key state (Michigan) by bringing Bonior on board.

I like DK, but I also like David Bonior alot.