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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:16 PM
Original message
On Being Godless ...
Edited on Wed Dec-13-06 07:34 PM by NanceGreggs
On Being Godless …
By Nancy Greggs

If you are a liberal and a Democrat, you have probably learned, as I have, to grow a thick skin over the past six years. We have been called everything from unpatriotic traitors to terrorist sympathizers.

We are history revisionists when we remind people that their beloved Republican leaders said something today that is totally contrary to what they said yesterday.

We are tree-hugging hippies when we talk about the fact of global warming, and the need for careful stewardship of our natural resources. We are defeatists when we point to the realities of the failed misadventure in Iraq, or discuss statistics about the wounded, the orphaned, the dead.

We are the enemies of good, old-fashioned American capitalism when we dare suggest that government policy should be based on the well-being of our nation and its citizens rather than the bottom-line profits of corporations.

When we bring up the fact that the War on Terror is a fraudulent scare tactic used to sway voters and line the pockets of war profiteers, we are failing to see the Big Picture. And when we point to the fact that Administration relatives and cronies are the recipients of billions of our tax dollars via no-bid contracts, we are obviously too jaded to recognize amazing coincidence when we see it.

But being called “Godless”, a pointed barb obviously meant to sting more than any other epithet, never fails to bring an amused smile to my face. The irony of that attribution, and the concept behind it, always serves as a reminder that I am being targeted by people too blind to see the enormous gap between their own idea of what is God-like or Christian and the political behavior of the president, the administration, and the party they so staunchly support.

Ann Coulter – the pin-up girl of good, Christian keyboard warriors everywhere – devoted an entire book to our Godless state. And who would dispute the darling of the RW, who thinks all Muslims should be ‘forced’ to convert to Christianity, and bemoans the fact that Timothy McVeigh didn’t murder a few journalists while he was at it?

But just as the mindless sheep never make the connection between their financial contributions to their mega-churches in the cause of spreading Christianity and the lavish lifestyle of the Falwells and the Robertsons who cash the checks, so they never notice the disconnect between the policies they embrace as righteous Republicans and the teachings of one Jesus Christ – an early fatality in the battle against we Godless creatures, we who think torture might be a tad out of keeping with the Sermon on the Mount.

According to the vast wisdom of posters on RW Christian discussion boards, we recalcitrant peaceniks show our true Satanic colors every time we promote diplomacy over war, or speak up against injustice, inequality, or military aggression that kills innocent children. For this alone, we are damned.

But we are guilty of a far greater sin, in that we have refused to accept that George W. Bush was specifically chosen by the Highest Authority to rule over all Americans – and then some. We are told he speaks to the Big Guy himself on a regular basis; a merciful Christian God who apparently tells our darling leader that torturing, maiming and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis is “doing the Lord’s work” – and repeatedly lying to the country in order to do just that is simply a matter of pursuing those “good works” we were told about as naïve children, once taught to believe in things like goodwill and brotherhood among all men.

And our Godlessness does not end there. We still prattle on about supporting programs to feed the hungry, providing health care to the sick, and banning weapons like landmines and cluster bombs. Good Heavens, is it any wonder we are all doomed to spend eternity in some special part of Hell, where those too soulless to embrace the concept of nukin’ entire nations that don’t agree with ours are destined to suffer for their multitude of transgressions?

For most right-wingers, Christianity has become a moving target. It is no longer based on the teachings of Christ, but rather on whether one has an (R) next to one’s name – a symbol which has replaced the crucifix as denoting that new-and-improved form of righteousness that allows for any kind of behavior, so long as that behavior takes place on the “right” side of the aisle. Lying, stealing, adultery, and homosexuality are all apparently acceptable to the flock, so long as you are willing to ‘fess up to your sins the minute you get caught, and not a moment later – or sooner.

Yes, my fellow Godless, fire and brimstone await us for sure. We wage War on Christmas by not taking offence when someone wishes us “Happy Holidays”, we have “personal relationships” with God that we steadfastly refuse to turn into public spectacles for political gain, we adhere to ridiculous concepts like not judging others lest we be judged – you know, all of that nonsense promoted by a man born over 2,000 years ago, a.k.a. the Prince of Peace, someone who obviously just didn’t get it.

Godless. It’s become a kind of badge of honor, one that I wear proudly, one that must make God – with that ironic sense of humor that is His, and His alone – laugh every time he hears it directed at one of His own.




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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. great!
i agree completely!
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BleedingHeartRN Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bravo! I couldn't agree more!
:kick:

& recommended
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Amen, brother
:hi:
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KatyaR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nance, I absolutely LOVE your writing.
You nail it on the head every time.

I've come to be suspicious of anyone who waves religion or the flag in my face in way, shape, or form. It bothers me somewhat, because I'm naturally a trusting person (sometimes too much), but I just cannot stand these "holier-than-thou" attitudes. What's happened to our country that we are now allowed to hate anyone and everyone because they're different than us?

I miss my country.

Thanks for your words.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. And thanks for your words, fifthgendem ...
I, too, miss my country.

But I am confident that we will find her again. She has just been buried under the lies of this president, the bullshit spewed by his supporters, the wreckage of Katrina, the deceit of those who choose to fatten their wallets to the detriment of their own nation.

She will be resurrected.
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index555 Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
59. on hate
I only hate Al Queda and that small number Of people who want to kill Americans no matter what.
I do NOT hate Muslims , I know several Muslims here in the U.S. and they are just as appalled by the actions of the hate spewing Muslim extremists as anybody in their right mind should be.
What so many on the right don't seem to realize is, the the hate filled propaganda is from EXTREMISTS , not from the average Muslim.
the average Muslim may not like or they may even vehemently disagree with what is going on with the world today . But , that does NOT mean the majority are planning another 9/11 attack!
But , for those few that are planning another mass-murder attack , I neither have sympathy for you and can only hope the worst things possible happen to you.
( Note to those that want to "kill Americans" I will gladly help with those worst possible things if I find you , including castration , insanity and whatever else I can think of)
If you want to use your religion against me , then I have no qualms about using YOUR religion against YOU!
Note : I am not a religious person , and my threat extends to whoever wants to use religious motives against me , regardless of what their religion is.
However , if your motives are peaceful and you truly want peace , then I only want peace for you , and wish a long and happy life for you.
I wish no harm and nothing but good will upon those who would wish no harm upon me , but if you wish to harm me .. Then I've got something waiting for you!!

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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. That would be rec #5, I believe
Merry Christmas, Nance. Hope you like recs.

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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. OUT-F#CKING-STANDING
Just...outstanding.

What a spectacularly well written piece. This quote in particular should become, in my view, part of the modern vernacular;

"We are the enemies of good, old-fashioned American capitalism when we dare suggest that government policy should be based on the well-being of our nation and its citizens rather than the bottom-line profits of corporations."

I fancy myself at times a bit of a word-smith and I am in awe of that incredibly well penned sentence.

Kicked,:kick: :kick: Nominated,:yourock: :yourock: applauded:applause: :applause: and heralded:headbang: :headbang: .

Ms. Greggs...


YOU GO, GIRL! :loveya: :loveya:
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index555 Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
61. RE : Oscar Wildes Quote on Patriotism
Edited on Fri Dec-15-06 03:41 AM by index555
He got it wrong;
I don't think patriotism is the virtue of the vicious until it turns into blind Nationalism.
I.E. It's not wrong to love your country and admit it's capable of making mistakes and love it despite those mistakes. (Patriotism).
It IS wrong to say "my country can not make mistakes" (Nationalism)
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. There are none so blind as those who will not see
Great essay, thanks for writing it!
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wonderful!
A new wind of motivation to help others stirs in me whenever I hear such truthful words. Please, keep em coming!
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. godless, liberal, and Buddhist
they can shout "godless" at me all they want... so what?

great essay!
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. Um, excuse me, but
There are quite a few of us who are quite literally godless. :hi:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Believing in God, or any Higher Being ...
... is not a prerequisite for being a moral person, who puts the welfare of his fellow man on a par with his own welfare.

Just another thing the righteous right fail to recognize.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Beg to differ, Techbear
Your avatar is God.

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. As a fellow atheist I think you misunderstand
I think the term "godless" is code for "immoral" in the way it's employed by the right wing and I think that is part of what Nancy is hitting on here.

The common ground between the atheists and Christian left is what binds us together. We all believe that caring for our less fortunate is important, educating our kids, going the diplomatic route when possible on foreign affairs and other farsighted, greater-good-centric is the way to go.

The wingers try to whip up their sheep screaming "godless" to "demonize" the left and I don't think they are particularly concerned as to whether they are lumping atheists in with left leaning Christians or not. Nancy does a good job of depicting the dynamics here IMO.

Just my.0125

Julie
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. The problem I have
is that the outrage from the left at the term "godless" is that the right doesn't understand what it means to be "godfull." The right doesn't look at the actions of the left. I hear very little discussion that they are using a term that describes atheists as in insult. Much like saying that you have "jewed" someone down or got "gyped" by your mechanic. Why don't we attack the bigotry of the term and defend the atheists?
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. We could do that
We can also re-define "godless" which Nancy seems to be suggesting in her OP.

Just sayin'

Julie
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Who, me?
;) Look closely at the christian religion. It's based upon war, blood, guts and violence. Many would say the opposite, that their religion is based upon love and understanding. Read the bible, then tell me how many times the words "blood" or "vengeance" are used as opposed to "love" or "peace". Quite a revelation, isn't it? I believe the basic tenets of religion (the ten commandments or what have you) are sound but that there needn't be an entire bloody belief system to support it. Those are just basic, practical rules to live by if we're to have a society that has any semblance of order whatsoever. I don't see the need to build a religion around those tenets for the actual purpose of making money and controlling it's adherents. That there's some unseen, unheard supreme being who demands that we grovel and worship it 24/7 is ludicrous, at least in my mind's eye. More people have been killed in the name of the lord than for any other reason. Let's face it: religion is violent, so calling me "godless", in my opinion, is a compliment. Thank you very much! :hi:
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
48. The Ten Commandments suck
or at least the first five do. Commandments six-ten are fine, but you can be a perfectly moral person and totally ignore the first five.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
46. Didn't you get the memo from Hillary Central?
Now, you're for God, against abortions and pretty much for invasions until you need to be against them on the grounds that you can invade and occupy better.

Please continue to vote and ask no questions. Thank you.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Personally, I like the term "god-free".
NT!

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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. Another one right on
According to the right, being a Christian involves just a few items:
--Homophobia
--Fear of science
--Distrust of all other countries (especially those whose peoples aren't "white")
--Love of guns
--Love of war
--Love of money

Yeah. That sure fits my reading of the New Testament. :sarcasm:

I always THOUGHT I was a Christian, but what with believing in PEACE, SOCIAL JUSTICE, TOLERANCE, and CARE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, it turns out that apparently God and Jesus don't like me. Who knew?
:shrug:
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
49. You hit the nail on the head
with your list. That's pretty much what American Protestant Christianity is about today, so, sorry, no, you're not a Christian. US Christians pretty much ignore the New Testament. Their God is a God or WRATH.

Personally, though, I think that the perverted Calvinism of these people puts love of money number 1, but I understand your list may not imply a rank ordering.
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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Your priorities make sense
I was just writing my list down as the ideas came to my head. Homophobia came first because I had heard two stories earlier in the day all about evil gays. One of them actually had to do with eating SOY. Apparently that makes one gay. Who knew?

But worship of money number 1? Yep, works for me!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Very nice Nance
:toast:
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sometimes, I start reading an article here at DU w/o.......
really noticing who wrote it. It's not too unusual to be part way in and think "Oh....must be NanceGreggs!" - and...sure enough!

Always excellent. Always welcome! Thanks, Nancy!:applause:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
18. Just don't call me "Bobless"
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goondogger Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Praise hail Bob . . .
The normals at work all wonder who that guy is on my coffee mug.
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
19. Once again
I am blown away by your talent. You put into words what many of the rest of us are thinking. :toast:
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SmellsLikeDeanSpirit Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent read.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. Nice piece Nancy
Thanks for posting this nice work for all to enjoy.

One of the things I like best about these posts from you is they are always about an actual topic, it's never a vanity it's-all-about-me post dressed up to look like something of substance.

:toast:

Julie
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
24. Thank You Nancy!
:kick:
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. That is one of the best pieces I have ever read on DU
:hi:
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Truthy Nessy Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
27. are you describing me?
Nance, you hit the nail on the head. Two days ago I was telling my repub mom that I wrote a letter to my brothers apologizing for letting politics get between us. She told me one brother won't let her even say my name when she is talking to him. I said well that was too bad. She then went on to say how right he is and that she believes that "we are fighting them over there so we won't have to fight them hear."
She doesn't read or watch any news.. She shops and doesn't have time for politics.

I just think of myself as an orphan now. At least they are hundreds of miles away so I don't have to worry about bumping into them.

Also after losing my partner and my son to cancer I really feel godless.
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. I'm sorry...
It seems that your family has chosen to desert you. After losing two loved ones, not to have the comfort and support of a loving family must be a terribly lonely experience. Remember, though, that friends are no further away than your keyboard after you log onto DU.

The finest, most compassionate, ethical man I ever met in my life, my first father-in-law, was an atheist. That did not prevent him from being greatly loved by all who knew him, simply because the goodness of the man was so overwhelmingly evident.

If your family can't overlook their narrow political views, especially after you reached out to them, then you are better off without them in your life. So, at this time of year, I wish you peace and love, regardless of what, if anything, you believe regarding religion or lack of it.
You are still part of the human family.:hug:
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
58. I'm sorry to hear that.
It's not clear from your post whether your brother had received your letter yet when he told your mom not to say your name. In any event you have reached out to them and if they are compassionate human beings they will reach back. I hope you all can manage to stay united as a family and just keep politics out of it. If not, then, well, it is what it is.

I'm really, really sorry to hear that you lost your partner and son to cancer. If not your family, I hope you have other people in your life you can turn to for comfort and can count on for support. And I feel confident in saying that if you ever need to, you can reach out to DU'ers for support and you won't be let down.

Wishing you joy and peace.
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connecticut yankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
28. Boy, Nancy
no one tells it like you.

Marvelous essay!
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Tanner_B. Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. As Always:
:kick: !!!
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deepthought42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. Lumbergh (sp?) is on my mug
"Uh yeah..."

If they (the r-w nutjobs) consider me to be "godless", I consider it a compliment. Not being a religious person, I don't really give a shit if they think I'm godless, I still know that I'm basically a decent person. Most of the time. ;) *LOL* :evilgrin:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
31. I think you missed the point Nancy - it is good to have the social values that Jesus has and
Edited on Thu Dec-14-06 09:18 AM by papau
which all religions and the religious claim to try to live by, but I suspect that the other side - the RIGHT- or the GOP - are not referring to this or to a lack of such values.

Indeed loving your neighbor as yourself commands one to love others no matter how they defer in their thinking or their belief system or what they have faith in.

I really comes down to secular humanist - a code for atheists in most writings. We on the left are of course comfortable with atheism and atheists, and if our beliefs different we still see no harm to our rights occurring from demands for atheists to have all the same rights that the non-atheists enjoy. Indeed we object to stupid rules like you can't be on a jury if you are an atheist which exist to this day in some states (even if they are usually gotten around via an intelligently judge making up a procedure to get folks on the jury, with that intelligent judge never overturned on appeal).

But there is an appearance the the Democratic Party members on the left allow insults to the religious beliefs of others by the atheists who claim that by their membership in the Party or that by being citizens that they have that right to insult (they would call it discuss and point out errors - just like any other in your face evangelical that is into proselytizing their faith). Obviously their is a time and place where such "discuss and point out errors" in another's faith is appropriate - but the RIGHT likes to point out that the Democratic Party members on the left appear to feel it is appropriate in Federal election politics.

Your point re the social values of Jesus is one I agree with - and I do feel that many on the right fail to put a high priority on it. But even here on the left many of the spiritual endorse the gnostic approach to Jesus, which is push to put first ones own inner development over any outside world happening - making Churches irrelevant (a good to some on this "gnostic" part of the left) and also making social justice irrelevant (a bad to many of those same people but which is seldom discussed when pushing gnostic interpretations of Jesus).

So, while I agree with the social justice thrust of your article, I disagree on the dump of the right over a complicated values judgment.

I apologize in advance for being unable to respond to comments for next week or so as I will be out of pocket, so to speak. But I will try to answer comments when I get back.

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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
33. Terrific!
Another great one, Nance!
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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
34. Maybe
I gave up on religion decades ago. I got tired of the hypocrisy I saw in most "Christians". After doing a lot of reading, I decided that too many people had vastly different ideas about the nature of a supreme being, and that many of them were much smarter than I. I reasoned that, were I to accept one man's interpretation, I would then have to reject all of the others', and that I wasn't smart enough to say anyone of those people was wrong. Thus, I decided that my religious philosophy could best be summed up as, "maybe". Maybe there's a god, and maybe not. Maybe this god knows what I'm doing and thinking, and maybe not. Maybe this god actually gives a shit about me, and maybe not. Maybe there's a life after death, and maybe we all just turn into worm food. I just don't know. And I don't care. As long as I have love in my heart, try to treat others fairly, and live the best I know how, then I can look at my face in the mirror each morning.




Or maybe not.:shrug:
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
35. I guess it's better to be Godless than heartless, brainless, and soulless.
Edited on Thu Dec-14-06 09:58 AM by Progs Rock
I'd rather be Goddessful, anyway. Yin over Yang.
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LaloBorges Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
36. You are so good!
I have become addicted to reading your articles. You not only write beautiful, but always hit the nail on the head.

Thank you
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
37. Excellent. I believe that there will be millions of 'disappointed' Christians on the
judgement day. If Jesus were to come back today, looking exactly like he did in 33AD, most would have him listed as a terrorist, anti-American, and imprisoned in Gitmo.
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Freeusfromthechurch Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
38. I'm sending it to all my Republican friends and family......
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exlrrp Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
39. Why let The Right keep on defining us?
This is a very well written post and thank you for it. I feel I must respond to some of what you left unsaid.
First of all, who the hell is Ann Coulter, really and why does she and all the other RW nutcakes get to keep on defining us? Ann Coulter was fired from MSNBC for telling a disabled Vietnam vet that it was people like him (a Democrat) that lost the Vietnam War. THIS is one of the RWs greatest media strategies and it works every time--one of their whole basic memes is: "Liberals are: (every bad thing in the world)" And keep repeating it over and over untill people believe it. This is one pf their most basic tactics--defining us and attacking us. Really--does ANYONE see themselves in the RW's definintion of us? Its all made up, a complete intentional misinterpretation (another Republican tactic) of our values.
Except for a few old diehards like myself, people don't even want to call themselves liberals any more, its become such a "dirty word." Thats what Republicans/conservatives incessant media campaign has gotten them
over the years, since the Reagan era, the conservatives have built up their own alternative version of the MSM---Talk radio, Fox and its imitators,The Pat Robertsons and jerry falwells, the conservative blogosphere, etc. What this has done for them is give them a bypass to the MSM. Cheney only allows himself to be interviewed by Brit Hume, for instance, after plugging a guy with a shotgun who was wearing a bright orange vest and hat, giving Fox more cred and ensuring a softball interview. Used to be this would have been with the MSM.
And their media is all in agreement--Liberals are every bad thing in the world.
Why do we roll over and take this so much? Why do we let them define us, while they go unlooked at? Why aren't we blaring "Ann Coulter, who was fired for telling a Vietnam veteran it was people like him who lost the Vietnam War, said "......" every time she comes out with a nutcake statement? There's liberal talking heads--why do they go on the same show as her (answer: theyre FOX liberals)Use her own words and actions back against her, don't play on the defensive all the time. The Reps/Cons believe the best defense is a good offense--thats because many times they HAVE no defense--they're in an indefensible position. So they are vulnerable as hell but they fight in someone else's back yard--there's many examples of this.
Youre never going to change the minds of Coulter fans so don't bother--they'll only find someone else (examples: Strom Thurmond or Hitler) The best thing to do is marginalize her by always quoting her absurd statements back at her, pointing out that she was unpatriotic enough to tell a disabled Vietnam Veteran that it was people like him who lost the war. Basically just tell the truth about her. Thats the Christian way.

Another point; You seem to also fall into the RW definitions of religion. One of the Conservatives greatest travesty is that they have highjacked the Christian religion, distorting it to their terms and definitions. Really--would Jesus have supported waterboarding and taxcuts for the wealthy? But don't measure all Christians or any religious people by the definitions of the RW. Conservatives have also highacked Islam. AS a practicing Christian that believes in evolution (how God created the world) and Abortion (a woman's choice) gay rights (my church ordains and marries gays) I know that Christs teachings are completey contrary to what the RW defines them as.
religion used to be the birthplace of of liberalism-I got into politics in the days when the Christian churches were leading the fight for civil rights ( some churches opposed them)
What Coulter and the rest of the RW alternative media have done is set Christ up as on their side--We need to answer this, not run away from it. What we REALLY need is for liberal churchwomen and men to become more prominent on the liberal side. Theyre already there but what we need to do is stop snarking the "christianity" of the right and start demasnding that liberal Christian voices be heard.
So I totally reject the claims of Coulter and her ilk that Democrats are godless and I want to be known as God Respecting.

One more thing: in order to believe in an omniscient God one must be ready to accept reality as it presents itself. Looking at it from that aspect, God DID create George W Bush and established the circumstances that made him president. I think Woody Allen said it best: God is a comedian playing to an audience that doesn't know how to laugh
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
40. It's more Moonie Christianity than Christianity.
Reverend Moon rewrote the Bible to name himself the third son of Christ. If you follow him, blindly, absolutely, then he may do you the favor of impregnating your wife, and your child will go to heaven. All his followers are not necessarily heaven-bound; they only go to Purgatory to be judged. Only the Direct Descendents of Moon will go to Heaven.

If you do not follow him, you are considered to be an animal. Moon and his followers may lie to you, steal from you, murder you, torture you in the name of the Unification Church -- all with his blessings and God's Forgiveness.

Moon is a staunch Republican. He contributes millions, not to mention the Washington Star, to the cause.

Oh, the many False Faces of the Jesus. Sound familiar?
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Old Smokey Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
41. Excellent essay
you write very well.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
42. Thank you for saying my words so eloquently!
:pals:
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
43. See you in hell, sista
We'll have damned good, company. :evilgrin:
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thank you Nancy. I often feel alone on this board but then
someone like you stand up and welcome those of us that are Christians back in. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.

PS. Pray for Senator Tim. We need him.
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BeccaGrim Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
45. You are a wonderful writer
Do you write profesionally? You should.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
50. I'm not "Godless", but I have grown to have great contempt for the...
right wing. I said that I would boycott any "artist" who is a conservative
in protest of the way the right wing is. I don't shop at Wal-Mart either.
I am all for boycotting our opponents.
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Shredr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
52. Amen! n/t
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
53. Yeah, I think it's high time...
...for another Reformation or something. Hypocrisy is fun and entertaining =D
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Pragmatic Pilgrim Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
54. Well said, but you missed the OT/NT conflict.
Your quotes were from the New Testament (what we might call the "Christian Bible," especially when we're debating with Fundies), whereas the Right Wing draws its own beliefs from the Old Testament, the ancient Hebrew scriptures written as much as 3,000 years earlier.

As we all know, the contrast between the two testaments is breathtaking: The OT is aflame with rage, brutality, judgment, punishment, and high-handed totalitarianism (sound familiar?), while the NT teaches justice, love, charity, and forgiveness.

Since it's impossible for anyone to follow BOTH of those utterly contradictory "gospels," each of us tends to choose the one that supports his/her own world-view.

Thus authoritarians are drawn to the OT, where a stern God turns people into pillars of salt for looking back at the destruction of their hometown, He demands that you show your loyalty to Him by putting your own son on the sacrificial altar, and He orders folks to murder any of their neighbors who raise two different kinds of crops in their fields.

Meanwhile, those of us who had the good luck to be raised by kindly parents (or who got what's aptly named a LIBERAL Arts education) are convinced that the only hope for humanity is to learn to live in peace with each other...which requires a helluva lot of loving, understanding, and forgiving!

It's a damn shame the early Christian hierarchy decided to glue these two testaments together. I suppose it helped the teachings of the Man from Nazareth to grow into a major religion. But it also laid the foundation for today's Fundies--not just Christian but Islamic, too, since Mohammed later incorporated the Christian Bible into the Koran.

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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
56. Nancy, You are one of My Favorite Writers Online
another thought provoking article.
I have thought of this and there are some ways this is connected. The talking heads on Fox and Rush are former loosers who found fame and money bashing the left. It began as a rant and some school yard name calling and they became stars. The audience of these guys found it fun at first. Then thier minds got wrapped around some of the jokes and teasing and they got mixed up in thier anger in thier life and directed it at the targets of the conservative talkers.
They needed it. It justified all thier anger and it grew rather than released. And it became an addiction. In order to keep on top in a growing business, the talkers had to feed the audiences addiction. So the talk became more rabid, more angry and more hatefilled. At the same time Delay and Rove and thier brand of lock step hate politics merged with the talkers. Since the evangelicals thought of bush as one of thier own, they believed. And got seduced by the hate talk and the addiction of blame and anger.
Now with the slide that goes with all addictions, the talk went from hate to bizaar. And as they lost the non addicted audience they got more frantic. With that some of the addicted began to wonder about all this and the meaning of thier religion and the right and the hate. It's now in upheaval.
When a liberal senator can enter the lion's den and not back away from his beliefs and not pander, and talk to them and they applaud, it means they at least respected this. With that they are changing from the talkers.
I think things are slowly changing. How slow is the question.
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
57. Brilliant essay.
Very well done, one of the best pieces I've read this year. I'm printing it and adding to my "For Posterity" collection of articles. I'm keeping a folder of things like this to prove to future generations that there really were some of us who didn't completely lose our minds at the turn of the 21st century.
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gr8dane_daddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
60. Great piece of prose...
wish I could write like that.
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index555 Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
62.  on evolution and morality
Edited on Fri Dec-15-06 03:39 AM by index555
Heh , Heh. I read an interesting article in the "skeptic" column in a recent Scientific American issue on why the "moral" religious right should embrace evolutionary principles. the article gave a very nice and concise "evolutionary" viewpoint on where our moral codes Really come from.
A lot of our moral codes really are tied in with our evolutionary development. (despite what the right -wingers want others to believe , Godless does NOT mean immoral).
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CompassionateLib Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
63. We may or may not be godless...
..but our government should be. Why would Christians want others to follow their rules if it's only because the government makes them? Would God care? Maybe it's just easier than going out and convincing people, and then they call tell God it's not their fault, they tried.

You look at things like Terry Scheivo. God's will is for brainless bodies to continue to respire. If her soul was in that flat line brain, wouldn't it be better to set it free?

But I never did understood the right wing religous nuts. And I thank God for that every day.
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