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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:54 AM Original message |
Poll question: Would cutting off funds and withdrawing troops end the war? |
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Viva_La_Revolution (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:57 AM Response to Original message |
1. yes and no |
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customerserviceguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:06 AM Response to Reply #1 |
8. Nope |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:09 AM Response to Reply #8 |
12. So that's a "no." |
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customerserviceguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:52 PM Response to Reply #12 |
92. Yes, that's a no. |
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AZBlue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:54 PM Response to Reply #1 |
57. I agree - we created this hell for the Iraqis, we can't just leave them to die in it. |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:20 PM Response to Reply #57 |
93. so we should continue killing them...? |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:44 PM Response to Reply #93 |
99. We should not continue on BushCo's track, no. nt |
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KKKarl is an idiot (662 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:00 AM Response to Original message |
2. Yes it will |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:05 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Trying to understand your position... |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
3. it will end our illegal participation in it-- that is the crux, for me.... |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:06 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. Do you think the militias will disarm if we leave now? |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:57 PM Response to Reply #6 |
58. I doubt it-- but again, that is not the relevant issue as far as I'm concerned.... |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:20 PM Response to Reply #58 |
63. So it's either "commit crimes" or "let the militias overpower the weak"? |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:31 PM Response to Reply #63 |
66. I'm afraid so-- I don't believe there is any way to salvage this mess... |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:35 PM Response to Reply #66 |
87. We did indeed create the problem. |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:43 PM Response to Reply #6 |
90. The militias will be an Iraqi problem, as it should be! |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:41 PM Response to Reply #90 |
97. So do you think withdrawing will end the war? nt |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:08 PM Response to Reply #97 |
103. It will end the American portion of the war |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:22 PM Response to Reply #103 |
109. What makes you think they will be better off? |
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rman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 12:58 PM Response to Reply #6 |
130. Is the Iraq civil war now "the war"? What's the US military doing about it? |
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The Count (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
4. How could it not? Also, criminalize war profiteering. That'll do it. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:07 AM Response to Reply #4 |
9. "How could it not"... |
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The Count (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:37 PM Response to Reply #9 |
53. Political resolution, keeping the troops there - two opposite things. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:09 PM Response to Reply #53 |
104. Not necessarily. |
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Radical Activist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 06:45 PM Response to Reply #9 |
81. It isn't a civil war |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:09 PM Response to Reply #81 |
105. You don't think Iraqis are fighting Iraqis? |
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Radical Activist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 03:34 PM Response to Reply #105 |
132. Iraqis are fighting the Iraqis who cooperate with the US. |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 04:06 PM Response to Reply #132 |
133. It's much more than just that n/t |
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SteppingRazor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:06 AM Response to Original message |
7. It would end the war for the U.S.... |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:07 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. So that's a "no." nt |
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SteppingRazor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:19 AM Response to Reply #10 |
19. Well, one caveat, though... |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:08 AM Response to Original message |
11. Yes, but it would only be the beginning of the end. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:10 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. "hope of resolution" |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:46 AM Response to Reply #14 |
20. I suspect that after a relatively brief struggle for control, the Iraqis |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:12 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. I think you over estimate the degree of Iraqi nationalist "brotherhood" |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:48 PM Response to Reply #25 |
37. Very possible. One problem here is that it is hard to get an accurate |
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AZBlue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:23 PM Response to Reply #37 |
64. Unfortunately Iraqis are killing other Iraqis because of their religion, not because of the US. |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 04:14 PM Response to Reply #64 |
71. If some foreigners invaded my country and arbitrarily tried to |
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paulk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 04:51 PM Response to Reply #71 |
76. why do you assume the Iraqi's would react the same way |
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Zorra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-17-06 05:03 AM Response to Reply #76 |
134. Yeah, I guess some folks don't mind being driven from their |
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AZBlue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 09:48 PM Response to Reply #71 |
101. I trust the stories on the Iraqi-Iraqi killings since Bush & Co. deny them. |
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Sirveri (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:33 PM Response to Reply #37 |
115. What if the civil war is part of something larger. |
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no_hypocrisy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:09 AM Response to Original message |
13. It depends. |
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Larry Allen (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:11 AM Response to Original message |
15. yes |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:12 AM Response to Reply #15 |
16. "Anything we might try would just heighten the disaster" |
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Larry Allen (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:57 AM Response to Reply #16 |
23. Both. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:26 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. So do you think the "parties" and the world are on the right track? |
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Larry Allen (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 04:47 PM Response to Reply #28 |
73. Iraqis on all sides are being slaughtered |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:26 PM Response to Reply #73 |
84. You really believe the fighting will stop if our troops leave? |
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Larry Allen (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:21 PM Response to Reply #84 |
108. Yes I do. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:33 PM Response to Reply #108 |
110. Wow. |
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wryter2000 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
17. I think Bush would keep it up, anyway |
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Jackpine Radical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
18. No, our withdrawal won't end the war, but our staying |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:55 AM Response to Original message |
21. a little OT but ... |
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Donald Ian Rankin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
22. No, it will make it worse, and the longer the US waits before doing so the more so. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:07 PM Response to Original message |
24. First, it would not end the civil war. Second, it's not a yes or no question |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:20 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. The question I asked is a "yes or no" question. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:30 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. No it isn't! |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:34 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. Please explain what you see as the difference. nt |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:46 PM Response to Reply #30 |
100. The civil war the U.S. ignited would continue. nt |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:34 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. A comment from Juan Cole |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:38 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. That's interesting in terms of BushCo's insistance on not engaging Iran and Syria |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:44 PM Response to Reply #34 |
36. The situation is so bleeping complex, the Saudis seem to be split also |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:41 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. regional negotiations |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:49 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. "we withdraw and THEN we talk." |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:01 PM Response to Reply #38 |
43. that's an excellent question |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:20 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. Incentive |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:29 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. "significant leverage for establishing peace" |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:39 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. It IS scary, no doubt about it. |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:52 PM Response to Reply #35 |
41. Checkered history |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:08 PM Response to Reply #41 |
45. "might well have achieved its goal" |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:53 PM Response to Reply #45 |
56. I couldn't agree with you more about Oil |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:19 PM Response to Reply #56 |
62. a bargaining chip of questionable value ... |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 03:13 PM Response to Reply #62 |
68. I appreciate the intelligent discussion WT2 |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 04:21 PM Response to Reply #68 |
72. always an insightful discussion, Tom ... |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 05:36 PM Response to Reply #72 |
78. First, on the role of lay people and experts |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 06:14 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. the bloody cloak of imperialism |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:02 PM Response to Reply #79 |
82. Of course we have to contend with Imperialism |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:47 PM Response to Reply #82 |
91. congratulations on your new blog |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:32 PM Response to Reply #91 |
94. Thanks WT2 |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:52 PM Response to Reply #32 |
40. Cole's position is withdraw yesterday! |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:56 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. I don't think anyone's arguing that "US troops can deliver a solution" |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:05 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. The U.S. military remaining in a combat role supports the notion of a military solution. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:22 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. That's quite simplistic. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:29 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. Not simplistic: the presence of combat troops in a combat role is just that! n/t |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:44 PM Response to Reply #50 |
55. Does not equal "military solution." |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:57 PM Response to Reply #55 |
59. Reiterating: combat troops in combat role is not a solution. n/t |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:11 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. Reiterating: Nobody said it was. nt |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 04:49 PM Response to Reply #59 |
75. It's not just not a solution: the US occupation of Iraq is THE PROBLEM. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:29 PM Response to Reply #75 |
85. Three years ago, that was the case entirely. |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:39 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. I'm just glad the majority of Americans agree we need to withdraw ASAP |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:40 PM Response to Reply #88 |
95. Do you have a link to some polls for that? nt |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 05:07 AM Response to Reply #95 |
116. Yes, cuz I can use google. Just enter "poll iraq withdrawal" you'll find plenty |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 09:39 AM Response to Reply #116 |
120. I see wanting a plan for withdrawal, not "withdraw ASAP" |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 09:44 AM Response to Reply #120 |
122. yes, but consider this MORE IMPORTANT poll |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 10:00 AM Response to Reply #122 |
123. I don't blame them! |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 10:16 AM Response to Reply #123 |
124. if the Iraqis want us to leave, we MUST leave |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 10:24 AM Response to Reply #124 |
125. Understood |
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welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 11:04 AM Response to Reply #125 |
127. you ask hard questions |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 11:28 AM Response to Reply #127 |
128. A word that means different things to different people: Succeed |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 12:46 PM Response to Reply #128 |
129. No matter what you mean by the word, we won't achieve it by continuing the occupation. |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:17 PM Response to Reply #40 |
46. Misleading Post |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:28 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. It's not a misleading post -- "Why we Have to get the Troops Out of Iraq" |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 01:37 PM Response to Reply #46 |
52. Partitioning Iraq |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:13 PM Response to Reply #52 |
61. I explained why I called it misleading |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:23 PM Response to Reply #61 |
65. Here, from June: |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 03:24 PM Response to Reply #65 |
69. Thanks for that |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:22 PM Response to Original message |
27. According to the signs evidenced thus far, our withdrawing "ASAP" |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:33 PM Response to Reply #27 |
31. Right, but the belief that cutting funds/withdrawal = "ending the war" |
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Kelly Rupert (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:29 PM Response to Original message |
29. It would end American involvement, obviously, but not the war. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 12:51 PM Response to Reply #29 |
39. I agree with that. nt |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 05:58 AM Response to Reply #29 |
117. It is both a civil war and a war of resistance. Withdrawing would end one of the two. |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 02:54 PM Response to Original message |
67. It would end US troop involvement in the ongoing civil war |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 04:00 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. Thereby meaning that you making a statement about the smaller picture |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 04:48 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. Thereby meaning that I reject Clark's plan for endless war. |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 05:15 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. Therefore meaning that you |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:31 PM Response to Reply #74 |
86. You linked to a plan for peace through diplomacy. |
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lillilbigone (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:41 PM Response to Reply #86 |
89. I just hope people read it and form their own judgements. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:40 PM Response to Reply #89 |
96. I agree. nt |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 06:18 PM Response to Original message |
80. Which war? |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 07:17 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. The war in Iraq, as I said. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 01:39 PM Response to Reply #83 |
131. I guess I meant |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 08:43 PM Response to Original message |
98. No, it would leader to a larger, bloodier war. nt |
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dpbrown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 09:52 PM Response to Original message |
102. Yes. Duh. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:14 PM Response to Reply #102 |
106. Again, this line of argument made sense three years ago. |
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dpbrown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 11:14 PM Response to Reply #106 |
114. An invading and occupying army from another continent and culture can NOT fix things |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 09:29 AM Response to Reply #114 |
118. I agree |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:19 PM Response to Original message |
107. Tough question. |
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Gregorian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:39 PM Response to Original message |
111. Our troops are accomplishing nothing in Iraq. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:47 PM Response to Reply #111 |
112. I agree -- they're expected to accomplish something no military could. |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-15-06 10:56 PM Response to Original message |
113. I fear that watching genocide on a monumental scale would be unacceptable |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 09:34 AM Response to Original message |
119. It would end our involvement in the civil war in Iraq. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 09:43 AM Response to Reply #119 |
121. "no resolution as long as we remain in Iraq" |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-16-06 10:34 AM Response to Original message |
126. Sparkly, I just want to thank you |
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Vidar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-17-06 03:37 PM Response to Original message |
135. There is, & will be, a civil war there, regardless of our presence. |
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