Can some hold off attacking Kerry while he's in Syria and Iraq and needs support

[blm]

from other Democrats for his difficult undertakings, not the constant jeers to make the RW and their mediawhores all aglow?

Do his attackers think withdrawal debate just happened last year in a vacuum? There are serious matters that need debate, and Kerry is still one of our strongest voices.

Rove and the mediawhores do NOT need further help.

The issue of withdrawing from Iraq in a timely manner DOES need further support. You choose.

You can always go back to attacking him after he puts up what he has learned on this trip. Really - attack away to your heart's content AFTER his return - but show some strong sense just for NOW that the withdrawal debate NEEDS what he is learning from regional leaders at this CURRENT MOMENT.

[StoryTeller]

1. Agreed!

Thanks, BLM.

[rodeodance]

15. I second that emotion.!!!!!!!!

[KKKarl is an idiot]

2. Yeah he is

a welcome relief from having Oliver North in Iraq. Kerry is going their to assess the situation. North went there to probably see how he can come up with another scandalous arms deal.

[mtnsnake]

3. Why do you always equate criticism of Kerry as being something only a RWer would do?

Geez, if anyone dare say anything about Mr Perfect, you make it sound like they're an ally of Karl Rove or something.

[ray of light]

4. simple. Because what do YOU want to happen?

Have a respected voice get the facts and get us OUT of Iraq?

OR

Stick with the smears that basically attempt to belittle a guy who is doing what he's sworn to do...PUBLIC SERVICE?

The guy may have had a not so great campaign in 2004 but he's one of the few effectively holding this administration accountable for their actions. AND IF he were to announce that he wasn't running, suddenly the same people who nay-say him now would be singing his praises.

If it were Gore going there. Nobody would say a word against him. If it were Edwards, the same thing.

Basically, BLM is saying "Stop shooting yourself in the foot and stop the circular firing squad."

At least John Kerry is out there doing what WE WANT them all to do.

Or wait...maybe you like Reid's solution better? (A surge of 10,000 more troops. Talk about spineless from "Give em Hell Harry!"

[mtnsnake]

5. "maybe you like Reid's solution better? (A surge of 10,000 more troops"

WTF? Where did I imply that? Are you alright?

[blm]

6. I didn't say that - I say it is not helpful to WITHDRAWAL DEBATE to attack him NOW

and try to shoot down his credibility at such a crucial time when he is talking to regional leaders.

I said the RW is doing that now and don't need help.

[rockymountaindem]

23. One might ask why you show up to piss on *every* Kerry thread

Nothing better to do? No better targets for you to attack?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rockymountaindem]

29. Oh, ouch, pardon me while I go sob this one off

:sarcasm:

The fact remains that time and again you show up in every Kerry thread I click on to call Kerry supporters "hero worshippers" and provide no constructive debate of any kind. If you have something to say against Kerry, say it, but all these dumb attacks on his supporters get you nowhere.

[mtnsnake]

59. You're as big a liar as George Bush is

I've often prefaced my criticism of Kerry by saying he's an excellent Senator, a war hero, and a fine American. If you don't like me getting on his case for being a crappy campaigner, then you just need to get out of the kitchen, pal. This isn't Sunday School Underground.

The fact remains that time and again you show up in every Kerry thread I click on to call Kerry supporters "hero worshippers" and provide no constructive debate of any kind.

I challenge you to back up your claim with some proof. I'm gonna wait right here, bigmouth, and look for all these links you're going to provide that show where time and again I show up in every Kerry thread I click on to call Kerry supporters "hero worshippers". I'll be waiting.

BTW, FYI I've provided more constructive debate over the years than all the knitpicking GAR-BAGE you've spewed on this forum like confetti. Now run along and get me those links that show how I show up on every Kerry thread to call Kerry's supporters "hero worshippers". The most you'll come up with is me criticizing Kerry as a campaigner or hoping he never runs again after what he put us through in 2004, but go ahead and get me those links that support your claim on the hero worshipping thing.

[karynnj]

26. The point was really to consider the important issues at this time

rather than treat everything as a political game. The middle east is in a mess and at this point, Senator Kerry is there because it is part of his job as Senator on the SFRC. He is one of the strongest diplomats the Democrats have in the Senate.

No one is saying he is perfect - in fact it is the constant poking that puts us into constant defense mode - and while in that mode it is human to ignore any minor imperfections - :) which he may or may not have.

[Imagevision]

43. Why isn't Senator Bill Nelson (FL.) getting attacked??

[earthside]

7. GOP-style Party Discipline Here?

Radical Republicans love to bash Democrats and progressives for 'criticizing' the President while he is overseas.

So, we're supposed to now stop our critiques of Kerry because he is overseas?

What the hell is this?

[blm]

8. No - just a matter of hearing him out on Iraq withdrawal solutions that he is

discussing with regional leaders there. I didn't TELL anyone they aren't allowed to criticize him at all, what i did was ASK if the unnecessary and EXTRA attacking can be held off for a couple weeks while the RW is attacking him for holding talks with the regional leaders about how best to facilitate a turnover.

The RW is already attacking Kerry for doing what he's doing - how about the LEFT show support for what he's doing? Unless, of course, you side with those who don't want withdrawal solutions, want more troops or believe in supporting Bush's plan - then the attacks on him would make more sense.

[mopinko]

9. what the hell

indeed

[blm]

10. Difference is in ASKING consideration for serious diplomatic efforts and DEMANDING

even when you know the president is wrong.

And I am quite sure that difference is easy to recognize in my simply worded REQUEST that in no way demanded compliance from anyone. If you found it difficult to understand, then maybe you can suggest a way to rewrite the request in a way that you wouldn't find so horrifying?

[paulk]

16. since you're a member of the Green Party

in fact, a candidate...

who ran most recently in Colorado's 7th district -

what do you care about Democratic Party discipline?

[rockymountaindem]

24. Good memory

Anybody who, by proxy, supported ROD, is no Democrat.

[earthside]

31. Just Trying ...

... to point out hypocrisy wherever I find it.

[blm]

40. I REQUESTED which is different than demanding compliance.

If I worded it in a way you were unable to understand the first time, then maybe you can word the simple request more clearly - that would be helpful.

[talk hard]

50. People give Kerry way less thought than you think.

[blm]

52. You don't have to tell me that people ignore the anti-corruption, open government Dems

I am well aware that there will always be walls of silence or walls of lies put in their way.

I am asking WHY anyone on DU would want to help the coverup crowd.

[talk hard]

55. ah geez you're back on the "anti-corruption, open government" track again

We talked about this before. He didn't discuss this during his campaign or debates when had the chance. He is not what you say he is. I think only you believe that.

And yes not 2 many people think of him as having any weight in current politics.

[blm]

62. As DESIGNED by the corporate media. I don't suppose you'll have much problem

naming the Democratic lawmaker who has effected this nation's REAL HISTORY more positively than John Kerry has over the last 35 years, you know, since he carries no weight at all.



And for someone who carries no weight at all, he sure does STILL get the heavy guns fired at him by the establishment forces. You would think they would have stopped shooting that dead duck by now, eh?

[paulk]

54. coming from a Green Party member

the party that accepts money from Republicans, a trip to the mirror should suffice.

[pennylane100]

11. Well I will hold off on the criticism till he gets back

if I can double on for a while later.

[blm]

14. Never bothered me if people shared legitimate concerns. Iraq withdrawal is a focus now

and there are damn few voices who have the opportunity to get to sit down with the region's leaders and be heard with respect for each others' positions and needs. Kerry is one and we do OURSELVES a disservice by hacking away at his credibility at such a crucial juncture.

You can bet that the WH and centrist Democrats who side with them do NOT want his voice to be deemed credible on this trip. Why should anyone here help them at their game? That's all.

[Firespirit]

12. Good luck with this

It needed to be said.

But, I wish you luck. Some people seem determined either to shoot themselves in the foot on Iraq withdrawal, by piling on one of our strongest advocates for it, or they have another agenda that involves staying in Iraq as long as possible in order to try making it the Republicans' problem for 2008.

[wisteria]

18. You have that right. n/t

[madfloridian]

13. I agree.

Some of the stuff here is just way overboard. Recommended

[LittleClarkie]

20. Thanks Madflo

appreciated

[wisteria]

17. Agreed. The man deserves our respect. He is a true Democrat and a man of the people.n/t

[Catchawave]

19. Thank you! Be safe John Kerry!

I wish the attacks on all Dems would stop, especially those threads that are created with the intent of freeperizing good Dems with bad RW talking points.

Can't wait for his return and to hear his report. :patriot:

[karynnj]

27. Thanks Catchawave

[LittleClarkie]

21. I think it's a matter of seperating Kerry the Senator from Kerry the possible candidate

and giving the Senator some support while he tries to do his job.

One of my local wingnuts this morning said he and other Dems who've been to Syria and such should be kicked out for treason.

[Kerry fan]

22. Recommended!

IMO, Anyone who has been paying attention and agrees that Iraq is probably THE BIGGEST blunder ever in American History, should get behind ALL Democrats in Congress who are trying to get out the truth and end this mess.

There will be plenty of time to talk about your favorite for 2008 later, at least after January 4th. At the moment, our soldiers are needlessly dying, and there are those of you who seem more concerned with 2 YEARS down the road, while the troops are dying and losing limbs.

Are you so afraid that Kerry will do such a good job that he might make some great accomplishments that will help bring this war and dying to an end and the voters will like him? Heaven Forbid!

Geez, please, get a grip and think about what our troops are going thru in the here and NOW.

[Doctor_J]

25. check the posters of these messages

they're probably the same people who post 50 "Hannity says" and "Rush says" threads every day"

[jarab]

30. OTOH, Kerry could have put off the trip ...

until the inevitable comments were made. Works both ways.
These taxpayer-funded excursions stand as good a chance at inflicting harm as rendering good.
I need to get all the itineraries of the candidates so that I may be PC when I comment? I don't think so.


...O...

[blm]

37. No one said you need to...it was posted as a request and not a demand. Big diff.

.

[jarab]

46. And, I declined the "request" ....

The absolute last person shrub would listen to is JF Kerry. He won't listen to his own party members - who are, btw, still in the majority for a few more days or events unforeseen.
Sorry to piss on your thread, but I concluded - for myself naturally - that Kerry will never be our candidate (again). That wasn't a spontaneous awakening.

I find it difficult to keep quiet while Kerry tries to rehabilitate himself (without sticking his foot in his mouth), and while others be surrogates for his broken dream to be President. How will he let us down next time should he succeed in said rehab?
Would he fight back or wimp out again? He really let us all down in so many ways, and I cannot for the sake of me see why so many of us are such gluttons for punishment.

I would expect each of us to speak up more, not to be muted by select events. I'm through pissing for now, but I haven't been shushed - as "requested".

And, just in case one might think I'm a long-time Kerry basher, I'll confess that one of the more difficult chores I undertook a few days ago was to remove the "Kerry for President" bumper sticker which had been prominently displayed since early 2004.
It hasn't yet been replaced by another name.

...O...

[karynnj]

41. Tax payer funded excursion???

Would you like a tax payer funded excursion to Iraq, Lebanon, the West Bank, Jordan, Syria and Eqypt? This is a serious trip made by a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As to waiting tioll the comments are over - there is NEVER a time where you or the RW ever stop with negative comments.

I'm sure that Kerry could have found a much nicer place for a vacation if that were goal.

[jgraz]

32. Has anyone attacked Kerry's work in the Senate?

We all support him and what he's doing overseas. It still doesn't mean we all think he'll be a good presidential candidate. That's not an attack, any more than saying we don't think he'd make a good pope.

[Blaukraut]

33. You don't say!

I almost believed you were sincere in your support of what John Kerry is doing overseas. At least until I saw this;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2930635

[blm]

34. It's the constant piling on and condemning his voice at at a crucial time when

his voice needs to be heard. You think newsmedia doesn't read the stuff on these sites and filter it into their reports?

It's just a matter of restraint. Why not hold off the constant attacks on him for another week and then you can get right back to letting everyone know you don't want his voice heard during the primary debates?

[Clarkie1]

35. Cut the melodrama, please.

:eyes:

You really look silly with this OP. Believe me, DU is not going to affect whatever Kerry is doing over there, or the perception of whatever it is he is doing over there. It's just not that important.

[blm]

36. It does effect the way some in the media portray his mission. That matters to

some extent, whether you deem it so or not.

[Clarkie1]

38. I deem it not. nt

[blm]

39. Well, I know that DU does get read by some in the media, so I disagree with you.

.

[Clarkie1]

42. I also meant I deem Kerry's "mission" not a particularly significant event

in that it will not affect Mideast policy.

If he were the President or one of the President's representatives, perhaps it could. The reality is it's the administration's game.

[cadmium]

45. It's a Senate Foreign Relations committee mission including

Chris Dodd. No doubt it wont' be the definitive event but I don't think these things happen all at once. Cindy Sheehan camped out at the ranch didn't end the war but it turned made more people question Bush's character, which was a big step in questioning him on the war--especially amplified because it was immediately followed by his failure to respond to Katrina. Murtha's withdrawal of public support was another one of those events. The Kerry-Feingold ammendment looked like a failure but it was given a sympathetic hearing by John Warner, who later made a tour of Iraq. Warner came back from his visit with more standing to push the debate toward ending the war. Prior to the election all the brances of "Military Times" publications came out against Bush's handling of Iraq. Now the Democratic gains in the elections will give Kerry and Dodd a better forum for their findings. I think this mission will help. The Bush gang is not going to give up easily----> too much money involved. It wont end the occupation but it can only help

[Clarkie1]

47. Interesting. You would have thought from the OP that it was only Kerry. nt

[cadmium]

49. I think that is because Kerry is the one drawing the most fire.

A lot of the right wingers harken (so to speak) back to his mission it Nicaragua with Thom Harken in the 1980's. They sell the Kerry as traitor image. They were really upset the State Dept by meeting with Daniel Ortega in those days. I suspect they are giving Nelson guff in the conservative Florida press.

[blm]

53. Kerry is the only one under constant attack - and you are well aware of it.

You do it yourself.

[Clarkie1]

56. Kerry will not win the Democratic nomination, nor should he.

If you want to call that an attack, so be it. I'm attacking.

[blm]

57. On EVERY THREAD? You're against fact-finding in Syria and Iraq? You're against

every move Kerry makes if you think it carries a byproduct of showing his work in a positive light?

I think that is being anti-peace and anti-good government.

[Bridget Burke]

58. So start a thread telling us what Your Guy is doing....

I'd read it.

[Infinite Hope]

44. Well, some do read it, but they don't look to it to determine their slant.

Their slant is determined by what will catch attention. It's about money. While Outright attacking Kerry on DU is pointless, I won't affect the media either. So I disagree with both "sides" on this.

[mtnsnake]

60. Amen, Clarkie!

[NCarolinawoman]

48. If our troops are allowed to withdraw without being slaughtered we will need

the help of all of the surrounding countries. Bush isn't going to do anything. Others must fill the vacuum. I say Godspeed, John Kerry. Stay safe and do well.

[JNelson6563]

51. Yes, I'm quite sure that what's said on DU

matters. A lot.

:puke:

Also, enjoyed the surrogate cross dragging. Ever think of joining the theater?

Oy.

[wisteria]

61. Sen. Kerry has confirmed that he visited soldiers outside the Green Zone, I

would like to hear more about that than republican's whining about the trip Senator Kerry and Senator Dodd took.