Folks, neither Hillary nor Kerry are going to be our nominee. There is just no way.

[Clarkie1]

Hillary cannot compete with the Edwards/Obama factor. They are going to pull away too many votes from her, and she isn't as popular or as good a campaigner as either one of them. Also, I just don't see the media predicting the nominee two years out; politics doesn't work that way. The worst thing about Hillarys candidacy is she's the frontrunner now.

Kerry is not going to be able to compete with Edwards or Obama effectively either; Americans are tired of Kerry, they know who he is, and he simply does not inspire on the level of an Obama or an Edwards.

If Gore and/or Clark enter the race, that could change things big time, but it's not going to change Hillary's or Kerry's chances.

That is all for this evening.

[iamahaingttta]

1. Works for me...

I don't like either one of them!

[muntrv]

2. Need to have a southerner on the ticket. The last 3 Democratic presidents

came from Arkansas, Georgia, and Texas.

[Old and In the Way]

3. Of course, this is your opinion.

But unless you have a direct line into the thought process of every voting American in 2008, I kind of doubt you can back up that assertion.

[Clarkie1]

5. Of course, but I think it's an opinion based on some solid evidence.

Just my opinion, of course. :-)

[madfloridian]

4. I have a feeling....

that if posts like this keep happening, some folks might post their feelings about Clark and some issues.

If negative threads are going to be allowed constantly against every other candidate...then fair is fair.

This is very tiring. It turns people off.

[Clarkie1]

7. Where have I been negative? This is the political discussion forum.

I think Obama and Edwards are and will be stronger candidates than Kerry or Hillary. Agree or disagree? Discuss...

[madfloridian]

12. Can we discuss other points of view then...

without the poster being shut down?

[politicasista]

13. You think the media will go easy on them?

You think Obama and Edwards, or any other candidates WON'T have statements/comments used against them?

You think any candidate EXCEPT the ones you named WON'T be swiftboated? If you don't think that, then you are in for a rude awakening.

Your ABK/ABH posts are not helping the General, Obama or Edwards' cause.

[cadmium]

27. I think it's too soon to know. We don't even know if

most of these people are running. If they don't run or run half-heartedly they aren't going to win. I would think that after the declarationss and a debate or two we'll know. What concerns me is that Hillary will have massive advantage in promised at-large delegates before they even all get a chance to debate. This can stifle any other candidate.

[Straight Shooter]

9. I have a feeling, too.

Political punditry fatigue. It's only the beginning and yet I'm feeling really tired of it all, already. Haven't even recuperated from the 2004 election.

No matter who the nominee is, I'll vote for a tapeworm before I vote for any Repub.

Hey, mad. :hi:

[antiimperialist]

6. What's the evidence?

Waiting for the solid evidence.

[Clarkie1]

8. There are no guarantees of course, just offering my opinion. I explained the reasons

for my opinion in the OP.

[zulchzulu]

10. Is that a real crystal ball or a Sears crystal ball?

Being that the primary season begins in over a year from now (which is infinity politically), you sure have a big grasp on what's going to happen. I'm very impressed.

[AtomicKitten]

14. Jambi says so.

[zulchzulu]

15. Is that a real Jambi or a Microsoft Jambi?

Jambi...now why isn't that a DU nick...

:->

[AtomicKitten]

17. It's a Sears Jambi, of course.

[janx]

57. That smilie is a trip!

[AtomicKitten]

62. Hey, Janx

Enjoy!

[janx]

58. Who is Jambi?

[J Miles]

59. The genie from Pee-Wee's Playhouse

And, incidentally, the name of a very good song by the band Tool.

[janx]

60. Thanks!

:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

61. heh

Jambi was a character on Pee-Wee's Playhouse.



His magic spell:

* "Mekka-lekka hi mekka hiney ho!"
* "Mekka-lekka hi mekka chahney ho!"
* "Mola-mekka chala mekka hola hayla hey!"

[Trajan]

11. As a Clark supporter

I dont appreciate these needlessly negative statements regarding candidates that arent Clark ....

[blm]

16. People know what MEDIA pushes. The media is going to change somewhat,

whether they like it or not. New sheriff in town come January.

And those of you who want to shut out voices of solid Dems before the primaries are undemocratic and unfair and decidely UNWISE.

[William769]

18. Whatever.

Nothing like beating a dead horse.

[David Dunham]

20. Newsweek: Hillary leading McCain 50-43; Obama trailing McCain

Hillary's on her way to the White House!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[William769]

22. The more I hear people bitch about Mrs. Clinton on DU

The more I am apt to believe that. DU is my barometer for Hillary Clinton making it to the White house.

[antiimperialist]

23. Edwards leads McCain

On the most recent NBC/WSJ poll

http://www.mydd.com/bb#2635

[William769]

28. This is why polls are useless at this time.

None of them are accurate.

[antiimperialist]

47. Giuliani is gonna be the GOP candidate

And he will be tough to beat, only if he somehow distances himself from the Iraq war, which will be difficult since he's been a warmonger up to this point.

[StoryTeller]

19. Cool! I've never met a psychic before! :-)

Seriously, I don't see much substance in your post. I'm all for having a reasoned discussion about the merits of various potential candidates, but you've got to give me something to work with. Where is your data to back up your assertion that "Americans are tired of Kerry"? Or that they "know who he is"? How do you know whether people find him inspiring or not?

I'm not much of a Hillary fan, but your assertions about her are equally as vague and baseless.

By all means, let's have a discussion. But let's put some meat to it, and not just speculation and assumptions about what "America" does or does not want. This little slice of America we call "StoryTeller" is plenty inspired by Kerry and is not at all tired of him. I can't speak for other bits of America, but I figure that until they cast their votes, nothing is a done deal. :)

[David Dunham]

21. Kerry's dead meat. Hillary'll trounce McCain and Guiliani

[William769]

24. Kerry's not dead in the water yet.

The only person I see as not getting the nomination is Wesley Clark & thats a shame because I like him. But his abrupt departure from the 2004 campaign still resonates with a lot of people including me ( he got my vote in the 2004 primary, but if Mrs, Clinton does run, she will get my vote this time).

[StoryTeller]

31. Even less substance than the OP, if such a thing were possible.

You have an opinion? Great. Back it up with some facts, some concrete information. Otherwise, what is the point?

[David Dunham]

34. Kerry's support in polls has fallen a lot since his botched joke. He's toast.

[zulchzulu]

40. Yeah...and here's the proof...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3021444&mesg_id=3021631

Er...maybe not.

[StoryTeller]

42. Actually, his poll numbers...

...dipped for a while after "the joke" but are now where they were before that whole nonsense. They're still not high, but that is more a reflection of the media coverage than anything else.

I've had the opportunity to chat with some of my conservative friends about Kerry and about recently getting to meet him in person. They've responded with a lot of interest and curiosity, especially when I can present them with personal experience and information that refutes the inaccurate images they have of him. I have no idea if that would translate into votes or not.

But I do think it's a mistake to underestimate Senator Kerry...or his supporters. Word-of-mouth is a powerful influencer, and there's more people than you realize who feel strongly about what a great leader Kerry is. :)

[MH1]

55. Hillary's "botched" response - scratch that, REVELATION of her true self, has ended any chance she

had with folks like me who at one time were willing to give her a look.

She played the Republicans' line against her own party.

She's going down.

[Imagevision]

25. B-A-R-A-C-K- O-B-A-M-A....!

[wisteria]

26. Sorry, I don't agree. I think people want a true leader with experience

and they really have not gotten to know John Kerry. There is a lot about this man that is not known yet. Edward's and Obama talk a good talk, but neither has much substance. Edward's is doing well on poverty, but he is by no means a man of the people.Personally, his "just like you" talk turns me off. He isn't just like me and his pretense comes off phony. Obama is at this point only hype with a good book title. I think Obama is a good man, just not ready to be President.

[David Dunham]

30. Kerry's botched joke and the reaction to it make him toast. Dead man walking.

[zulchzulu]

32. I'd love Turncoat Carville to tell Mrs. Clinton to make it an issue...

Can you say "roadkill".

[zulchzulu]

38. Yeah, Bill O'Rielly said it best..so did others...

I would advise you not to read these responses for fear that your head might explode. But if you do, you'll see that the only people who went after Kerry for the "botched joke" were pathetic Repigs and opportunistic, shallow Democrats.

“I don’t believe that John Kerry meant to demean any American military member, I just don’t, and I think that fair-minded people know that would be political suicide for the senator and he wouldn’t do it.”
-Bill O'Reilly

"There is something I have learned after 31 years in the military, that I was in a wonderful brotherhood, a wonderful sisterhood that withstands all of time and eternity. Yes I would stand with John Kerry. Because I also learned in those 31 years to look a man in the eye and get the cut of his jib. He is an honest man. He said it was a joke. He would stand by me in war, as he volunteered in the middle of a war for combat. I would stand with him right here today. Absolutely.”
-Admiral Joe Sestak

“Knowing full well what Mr. Kerry meant, the president and his team cried out that the senator was disparaging the troops. It was a depressing replay of the way the Bush campaign Swift-boated Americans in 2004 into believing that Mr. Kerry, who went to war, was a coward and Mr. Bush, who stayed home, was a hero… This is hardly the first time that Mr. Bush has played the politics of fear, anger and division; if he’s ever missed a chance to wave the bloody flag of 9/11, we can’t think of when. But Mr. Bush’s latest outbursts go way beyond that. They leave us wondering whether this president will ever be willing or able to make room for bipartisanship, compromise and statesmanship in the two years he has left in office.”
-New York Times Editorial

"Republicans evidenced their election desperation by braying about an offhand comment that Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., made at a California college rally. “Education” Kerry said “– if you make the most of it and you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” Was Kerry making fun of the president, or warning students against the pitfalls awaiting the undereducated in general? It doesn’t matter.

Kerry was right either way. Kerry wasn’t saying — regardless of the Republican spin — that our troops are stupid. Kerry’s intended point was obvious. President Bush didn’t do his homework before he ordered the invasion. He didn’t study the intricacies of Mideast religion, culture, politics and tribalism. He wasn’t smart about it and we are stuck in Iraq.

Although there are plenty of well-educated people in our armed forces — Kerry was one of them — military service has long been an opportunity employer for those with less education and fewer skills than they need to work in the private sector. Indeed, the military sells itself as a place to garner skills and to help pay for higher education.

And wars, including this one, are often fought by those less privileged — albeit no less smart — than the sons and daughters of those who lead us into them.

Apologies? Sure, from the cut-and-run Democratic candidates who’ve cancelled appearances with Kerry.
-SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

[cadmium]

43. Add Murtha

“no question in my mind that John Kerry supports the troops,” and that right-wing attacks on Kerry are “just distracting from the real issue: the war on the ground.”
Jack Murtha

[zulchzulu]

45. Kerry's "botched joke" turned the electorate's focus on the war

The Repigs' plan backfired when the topic was no longer the stale Foley problem, but a real focus on the troops and the war/occupation. They took the bait that they invented. Democrats who shall remain nameless who also bit the bait showed their true colors.

If anything, I'm venture to guess that focusing on the war at the last moments before the election gave the Democrats that needed amount where the vote couldn't be stolen.

[NoPasaran]

48. People haven't gotten to know John Kerry?

If we didn't "get to know him" in 2004, what magical thing is going to happen in the next two years to fix that?

[ripple]

50. I disagree

Kerry had every opportunity to make himself known to the voters. Unfortunately (or fortunately, who knows?), he was in complete PR mode and everything he tried to make look spontaneous looked horribly scripted. I like the guy and I campaigned for him, but I also realize that most other voters aren't looking at political leaders the way I am. I can get past the stiffness, the inability to speak in everyday terms, and the obvious disconnect from everyday people. I can recognize all of that and still move on to the issues and judge accordingly. Most voters don't do that. Sad, but true.

[randr]

29. A very telling statement from Hillary tonight on ATC

The discussion was about the chances and public opinions regarding the possibility of electing a black American or a woman, for the first time, as the POTUS. Interesting segment and well worth the time to check out at the NPR site.
Hillary implied that it was just as important for a black or female candidate to simply run given the historical precedence.
I do not think she has the same sense of how important for the country it is to defeat all the self serving assholes especially for the safety and health of the nation.

[Realist2008]

33. ha

hilary has no chance.

[David Dunham]

36. Newsweek has Hillary leading McCain and Guiliani; Obama trails both.

Ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[William769]

49. Two ha's beats a ha!

Good going. :toast:

[KingFlorez]

37. She has a chance

People underestimate her chances because of who she is

[Clarkie1]

44. Do you mean to say she implied it would be of benefit if she was the nominee and lost?

Wow. Just, wow.

[randr]

46. Not as directly stated

She did not imply it would be a benefit if she lost. More so that it would be a victory just to have the nomination, historically.
My hope is that a candidate will emerge that wants the job for the dire importance of accomplishing a cleansing and renewal of our democratic nation. A candidate unafraid to announce his vision of a better future for us, our children, and our planet.

[KingFlorez]

35. I think Hillary can overcome both of them

She's battle tested from two Senate campaigns, plus years of inside political knowledge, so she knows how to campaign. At this point, we don't know exactly how viable anyone will be in this race, Edwards or Obama could fizzle out in the first primaries.

[zulchzulu]

39. This just has to be true. After all, Lieberman was the frontrunner in 2003!

The rest of the story explains it all! Say hello to President Lieberman! He isn't as great as that other frontrunner in 1967, President Edmund Muskie...

:crazy:

[election_2004]

41. The MSM is hot to stack the deck in Hillary's favor

She is their favored darling to become president for the next 4-8 years (with Obama as a distant second).

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

51. The media is a little slow on this Hillary bashing on the web

I'm thinking Republicans like her more than we Dems do.

[hijinx87]

52. remains to be seen.

the obama factor is only a few weeks old. it's a little silly to declare
him the "irresistible force" before there is even an out in the first inning
of the game.

I agree with you on Gore. he is probably the 300 lb elephant in the room. and I
still don't think clark would run against hillary.

[NCarolinawoman]

53. Enough already!

I am a Clark supporter but I say, enough! :spank:

[hijinx87]

54. when I saw this last night . . .

I thought that there was a chance you had replied after
everyone already said what they had to say, or if you
deterred additional replies . . . .

but I would have definitely taken the "over". :evilgrin:

[lojasmo]

56. I wish people would stop conflating clark and gore

Gore was a senator, and a vice president. Clark, well...not so much.

90% of the fighting dems LOST. Millitary experience does not equal any kind of qualification for high elected office.