If anyone thinks that the 2008 candidates or nominee won't be swiftboated

[politicasista]

then you are in for a rude awakening.

For the past two years, we have seen the evil and ugly side of the GOP. The fact is is that they will make stuff up about anyone.

It doesn't matter if the candidate/nominee is from the North, South, East, West; Black, White, Hispanic, even Asian. The bottom line is that they will be swiftboated. They will have statements taken out of context and distorted by the media. The media will not go easy on ANY Democrat and no candidate will be above the smears/spin and be perfect or gaffe-free. That's the bottom line.

The question is when they are swiftboated, will you back them up with facts, or whine about their lack of response and scream, "________ isn't or didn't fight hard when ________ was attacked."



Something to think about before the real action begins.

[David Dunham]

1. We can get them too. McCain is mentally unstable, Guiliani a fascist, and so forth.

[rurallib]

2. Already some unreal stuff about Barack HUSSEIN Obama

They are hitting him hard and early, so he must have them really scared.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Be ready for it.

It doesn't matter if the candidate is totally squeaky clean. If they can't find any dirt on him/her they will just make shit up. This time everybody had better be prepared to fight back immediately and hard -- Kerry's (or his advisers') big mistake was ignoring the whole thing on the mistaken assumption that addressing the swiftboaters would give their lies credibility. Instead, the lies got a lot of traction, and Kerry's very failure to hit back had the effect of bolstering the argument that there was some substance to them.

[AtomicKitten]

4. One would have to be living under a rock to think that.

[Skip Intro]

5. One question is, tho, would a second round on a previous candidate be as potent?

Of course, I'm talking about a Gore or Kerry nominee.

After all the mudslinging, with the media a willing accomplice, would the "wooden" or "traitor" memes still carry the same weight, or would a lot of voters who bought into that kind of nonsense the first time around be less effected this time? Would either of those potential candidates have built up some inoculation to a round two of the same attacks, especially coming off of year eight of the bush regime?

I think rehashed attacks on either of these men would be met with "whatever" from a significant portion of those with whom it once had a decisive effect.

One more reason I'd like to see a Gore or Kerry at the top of the ticket.

[AndyTiedye]

10. Works Even Better the Second Time Around, All the Memes Are Already Planted

It's not like any of the stuff they said about Kerry was new.
It doesn't matter how old and moldy it is,
if they apply it with a big enough firehose, it will stick.

[treestar]

15. True, and it could even include Hillary

The public has got to be getting sick of it. "Whatever" is exactly what many will react with.

The Rethugs have overstayed their welcome on this kind of crap.

And they really ought to get it themselves. How * got to be president with a DUI on his record is amazing. That alone proves the media complicit.

[zulchzulu]

6. I dare them to try to swiftboat my candidate!

David Copperfield would just...just...I mean...he would just...just...

[phillysuse]

7. Wesley Clark

will "beat the shit" out of anyone who tries to swiftboat him.

[AndyTiedye]

9. They Can Do It To Anyone

[politicasista]

12. Only if we the grassroots let them

Some think that what happened to certain Democrats, won't happen to anyone else.

[AndyTiedye]

13. How Do We Stop Them?

[politicasista]

20. We back our candidates/nominee up with FACTS,

Talk our candidates/nominee up, not talk them down. Say what they will do, and how they will do them. Repeat it over and over, and over again. Don't repeat right wing talking points and GOP smears.

With the exception of General Clark, Cleland, Sharpton, and maybe others, that's what Democrats did not do. When their candidate/nominee was swiftboated in 04, what did they do? They sat on the sidelines, repeated RW talking points, and left-leaning Dem pundits were overmatched by the GOP pundits.

That's why Democrats lose elections. When they are on the attack, they eat their own. The GOP sticks together when they are attacked, and talk their candidates up, and repeat the talking points on every talk show until it sticks.

[AndyTiedye]

26. We Do All That, But in MediaBlackoutLand, Nobody Can Hear Us

[xkenx]

18. When you have immense National Security creds. like Wes Clark,

you have at least SOME built-in immunity. Clark recognized what was done to Kerry and vowed to "Beat the shit out of them" if it happened to him (assuming he runs). 2008 is all about flipping a few red states into our column. Hillary certainly can't do it. Wes Clark is a progressive wolf in military uniform sheep's clothing. Many Republicans who didn't care for Bush, still couldn't vote for Kerry. Clark was the only Dem. they could consider. Clark has had more EXECUTIVE leadership roles than any Senator by virtue of his military commands where he had responsibility for the lives of hundreds of thousands of servicepeople and their dependents--the whole range of housing, education, training, healthcare, social services, sometimes in a dangerous spot. When Clark was Supreme Allied Commander Europe (Eisenhower's last military position), he had "Head-of-State" status, meaning that he dealt directly with prime ministers/presidents, not underlings. And Clark was virtually the only voice urging help for Rwanda. And Clark and Madeleine Albright were the ones who convinced Clinton to take action against the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, where Clark carried out the military action w/o the loss of a single American life. In this he stood up to the Pentagon brass who wanted nothing to do with "saving Albanians." And it was Clark who served for more than 30 years AFTER getting shot up and winning hero medals in Vietnam, when he could have gone for the big bucks in private industry. Try Swift Boating this guy--the smackdown will be heard around the world. Clark is all about duty, honor, country. When Clark's American Dream/American Hero story gets out to middle America, watch how many red states flip. And the beauty of Wes Clark is that HE IS A REAL LIVE D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T, with a progressive agenda equal to anyone.

[politicasista]

21. They will still do it to anyone

regardless of how much experience a candidate has. The question is will people here at DU back the General or any candidate up or throw rocks from the sideline?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. That I happen to agree with fully.

It's part of the reason I keep waivering towards him, despite the fact that I think Gore would make the best candidate. Wesley Clark would absolutely not allow anyone to swift boat him, and I think we need a bit of a pit fighter element to our candidate, given the circumstances.

[AndyTiedye]

8. It is the COORDINATED Nature of Swiftboating that Makes it So Devastating to Us

The attack of the Swift Boat Liars was orchestrated from the White House,
and fully coordinated with the 527s and the media for maximum effect.
Such coordination is illegal.

To "fight back" as every Monday morning quarterback says we should have,
Kerry would have had to spend every penny of the Federal funds allowed him.
In August.

He would have had nothing left to campaign with in September and October,
and the 2004 election would have been an even worse disaster than it was.

[karynnj]

19. Thank you

That may be why the Patriot Group was set up in 2006, so it could answer these types of attacks against others (and obviously against Kerry if needed in the future). The 527s were not allowed to advocate for a candidate - so as you say Kerry would have had to use a considerable amount of his money (or all) to defend himself in 2004.) Even spending a huge amount on ads might not have worked as people might then have given more credibility to the "news" shows that handled it as he said/she said.

The argument now would then be that he lost because he was so vain he wasted money fighting charges that were spurious on the surface and could have been disspelled by pointing the media to the 100+ pages of Naval records on his web site.

[blm]

24. It's the coordination WITH THE CORPORATE MEDIA who made sure it happened while

they muted or downplayed every defense move against the swifts.

That is exactly how they got Clinton impeached and Gore tagged as a serial liar and Dan Rather fired. They could NOT have done any of those without corporate media's full cooperation.

Kerry wasn't exactly the first. Impeachmenting preceded swiftboating.

[wisteria]

11. You are so right! All Dem's will be smeared by Repubs and the media. n/t

[talk hard]

14. Duh.

[underpants]

17. As Rush and Coulter clearly showed-What else have they got?

A frank discussion of the issues ?? Please NO ONE does that.

Logic? Reason? History? Human Nature? Common Sense?

No No No No and NO

They have to attack. Someone here on DU very wisely pointed out that both Rush (the ill)and Coulter (widows) publicly showed the RW cards-they have nothing but attacking the messenger. Hell look at this frightful situation with the Leverett guy. Sheesh that is right out of Hollywood B movie stuff.

[cali]

22. Their swiftboating will be totally ineffective.

I gotta say, things don't look good for the pukers. I predict the party will be in even more of a shambles by the summer of 2008, than it is today- by many multiples. The social conservatives can't even dig anyone up to run against Rudi or McCainiac in the primaries. They've burrowed in hard in the south and they're losing key states in the midwest, the mountain west and southwest. They're gonna hemmorage Reagan dems, libertarians, soccer moms, Nascar dads, hispanics, moderates, and every other group you can think of.

They are screwn. Swiftboating won't work.

[sendero]

23. Anyone..

... who would have any business handling the presidency, would know how to deal with it. Clinton sure did. Any Dem will have to.

Anyone who thinks "ignore them and they'll go away" is a strategy should be managing a 7-11, not running for president.

[wisteria]

25. The media sets them up tthen knocks them down. kerry bounces back,

others don't.