FINALLY! Bush Gives in, Mr. Kerry gets his way

[SaveElmer]

On June 3, 2004 during the last Presidential campaign John F. Kerry, Democratic candidate for President proposed expanding the military by 40,000....

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/20/bush-kerry-troop-increases/

I know the caterwauling Hillary Haters won't post this...

He wasn't the only one!!!

[rodeodance]

1. He proposed an increase at a time when it might have helped---as did

other Dems----and some repugs.

[flpoljunkie]

51. Exactly, rodeodance! End the failed OCCUPATION, and bring the troops home ASAP!

Bring in Iraq's neighbors, that includes Syria and Iran, as well as Saudi Arabia and Jordan, and give the Iraqis financial help to rebuild their war torn country--and end the occupation of Palestine by the Israelis--an occupation which benefits neither Israel, Palestine, or their neighbors in the Middle East.

[k_jerome]

2. Kerry wants to put more uneducated and underprivileged in harms way.

perhaps to feed more jokes.

[mtnsnake]

4. ...........

:rofl:

[k_jerome]

5. ridiculous ain't it? nt.

[MH1]

14. ?? Kerry sponsored a bill with Feingold to withdraw from Iraq.

Only 12 others supported him on that.

He has called for increasing the size of the military, specifically so that when troops are engaged in any action, they are at the proper strength for success.

He most specifically has NOT called for sending more troops to Iraq, just the opposite.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. That was 2 1/2 years ago.

Senator Kerry has changed his position and apologized for his vote on the IWR. I don't hate Clinton, I just disagree with many of her positions. When you use phrases like "caterwauling Hillary Haters" you appear to be trolling for a flame war. Why?

[mtnsnake]

6. Are you saying he was for the increase before he was against it?

[k_jerome]

7. LMAO. ha. nt.

[SaveElmer]

8. .....

Beautious!!!

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

9. oh no you didn't

[Warren Stupidity]

10. No I am saying that was 2 1/2 years ago.

Both Senators Clinton and Kerry are on record as against escalation. This is a bullshit non-issue and a pure troll by elmer. Your buddy Senator Lieberman is all for escalation.

[rinsd]

11. Elmer is making fun of this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3024197

[SaveElmer]

12. No...

It is a response to the ridiculous post on Senator Clinton on this same board...funny I don't see any criticism from you on that thread!

[k_jerome]

13. Slamming Clinton is vogue. If history is any predictor...

around here, it means she will do very well in the election.

[SaveElmer]

15. DU Conventional wisdom has all the accuracy...

Of a Dick Morris prediction!!

If Hillary were the board favorite I would truly be worried!

[JeffR]

19. Sorry, but that's horseshit

If people - here or elsewhere - don't want this woman as their candidate, maybe, just maybe, it's because she's not worthy of the position.

[k_jerome]

23. see the 2004 election for the basis. nt

[JeffR]

That would be the one Kerry won, right?

I remember it well.

[k_jerome]

32. no, the one where DU favorites fell like flies...

until everyone "settled" for Kerry. That one.

[mtnsnake]

36. yeah, that's why he's currently sitting in the White House...because he won

Brilliant

[k_jerome]

47. careful, it was only a few million votes. nt.

[JeffR]

48. Apparently you didn't hear anything about Ohio 2004

Plenty of stuff on the internetz if you can be bothered to look for it.

[mtnsnake]

29. The only thing that's horseshit is your logic

If people - here or elsewhere - don't want this woman as their candidate, maybe, just maybe, it's because she's not worthy of the position.

By your logic, the Hillary haters on DU are a fair representation of Democrats across America, when that's so far from reality that it isn't even close. Good gawd, and to think you're calling someone elses post horseshit? Too funny.

[MH1]

44. Nah, that can't be it! It's only because we're irrational!

It can't possibly because there's a reason to not want her as a candidate!

:rofl:

[Warren Stupidity]

16. That's a stupid thread too.

Both Senators Kerry and Clinton are on record as against escalation.

So your action in response to a stupid thread is to post an equally stupid thread?

Why?

[k_jerome]

18. yet you choose this stupid thread to post multiple times in. nt.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Here is a clue:

I don't see or read every thread on DU.

So is posting an equally stupid thread improving the discourse on DU?

Why don't you and your gang of Clinton boosters try posting positive stuff on Clinton to boost her candidacy instead of the endless bashing?

[k_jerome]

26. the anti Hillary threads outnumber all other anti candidate threads...

when the tables are turned, the mock outrage is funny to see.

[k_jerome]

33. by the way, you know now. Post how stupid it is there yet? nt.

[SaveElmer]

21. An opportunity..

To expose some of the Hillary bashing that goes on here for what it is. Often irrational, usually innaccurate, and characterized by an ability to ignore the criticized behavior in other favored politicians...

[Warren Stupidity]

41. Uh no,this is just a stupid troll flame bait thread

apparently in retaliation for some other stupid troll flame bait thread.

[mtnsnake]

22. Have a nice trip

but stop with the utter nonsense, pal.

Your buddy Senator Lieberman is all for escalation

Senator Lieberman is not my buddy and I am against any escalation in the pathetic war, so you can take your silly words out of my mouth and put them back in that putrid spot where they originated from.

[MH1]

Yep, this is a troll/flamebait thread.

Filled with right wing talking points.

But what should we expect from supporters of :puke: Hillary, who just couldn't wait to throw Kerry - and possibly some other Democrats in tight races - under the bus? Couldn't bear to utter the words, "I haven't seen the statement in context, so I can't comment" - or what would make more sense "I've known Senator Kerry for a long time, he is a great supporter of the military and our veterans, and it is clear that this fake outrage is just a republican smear job".

Nah, that would have taken intelligence and a willingness to avoid opportunism for her own personal ambition. Like that would ever happen.

[k_jerome]

35. more whining. nt.

[JeffR]

17. the "caterwauling Hillary Haters"?

Please spare me. Many of us - including this former HRC-admirer - are simply sick and tired of Senator Clinton's mealy-mouthed non-stance on so many issues, her relentless pandering, the pseudo-centrism targetted at a center that doesn't even exist, and the back-room know-nothings she surrounds herself with.

You've ground this axe so many times now it's got no blade anymore. Are you going to continue hitting us over the head with the handle every day between now and '08?

I don't hate her at all, but the idea that she has somehow earned the nomination through divine right or droit-de-seigneur is just beyond ludicrous.

I've read your posts for a long time, so I'm quite sure you're not dumb, but this post and a number of others you've made are among the most convincing impersonations of dumb I've seen on DU.

[k_jerome]

20. wahhhhh. wahhhhh. so you were for Clinton before you were against her?

That you Mr. Kerry?

[JeffR]

28. I liked Hillary before she had a track record

Admired her as First Lady, read her book, pulled for her all through the Lewinsky crap, cheered when she ran for the Senate, cheered again when she won, and have been sorely disappointed by everything she's done since.

If she's the nominee, she'll get my vote. But she won't have earned it; she'll get it only because she'll have (D) after her name.

[k_jerome]

30. if you would vote for someone you find so lacking...

it makes me wonder about your own track record.

[JeffR]

43. Two things on that:

1) I would never vote 3rd party and never vote Republican. Under any circumstances.

2) I won't sit out a chance to vote a Democrat - even one I don't much care for - into the White House. Anything less - well, we all know what happens.

Actually, make that 3 things:
3) My track record is to be an arch-progressive. Why does your hoped-for candidate have nothing to say to people like me?

[MH1]

37. Actually, I liked her a little and tried to tell people not to attack her, BEFORE

she turned into a tool of Rove.

I know many, many people who are pissed as hell about her for that. And not just on the internets.

She's an opportunistic ----- and she's going down.

Have a nice day.

[k_jerome]

42. your objection and the majority here give me comfort of her ultimate success. nt.

[babylonsister]

25. You go, Jeff! What you said!

:hi:

[SaveElmer]

27. Funny...how 5% of the board that...

Supports Hillary can so disturb the 95% that don't...

What do you suppose the ratio between threads critical of Hillary, and those supportive of her are...

So yes, I am going to continue to post in her support...

And if you don't recognize irony and a bit of humor...I feel sorry for you...

Funny I don't see any criticism from you on this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3024197&mesg_id=3024197

Of which this thread is a response...

[k_jerome]

31. funny huh? nt.

[Blaukraut]

46. funny you should ask

I did a search yesterday on Hillary threads, Kerry threads, and others;
Hillary had 78, out of which 12 were positive, 22 negative, and 44 neutral.
Kerry had 36, out of which 9 were positive, 14 negative, and 13 neutral.

all others had a majority of positive or neutral threads, and only Obama beat Hillary in number of threads. He had 80 total.

[TayTay]

34. I agreed with the increase then and now

The situation with stop-loss in this country is placing an un due burden on a small number of people. We have troops over in Iraq now on their 3rd and 4th tour. This is a terrible thing to do to those troops and their families. This is what is breaking our military.

We need more troops to relieve the pressure on the soldiers themselves and their families. It is inherently unfair to ask these people to shoulder this burden without relief.

Sen. Kerry never proposed putting more troops into Iraq to up the current level of about 140,000. The increase of 40,000 he proposed was to try and relieve the strain on the overall military and reduce the burden on the troops themselves. He favors a withdrawal of troops from Iraq according to a timetable, as he submitted in an Amendment co-sponsored by Sen. Feingold in June.

These are two separate issues. One is to relieve and strengthen the American military structure and prevent it from breaking under the current stress. He pays for this with cuts to other military programs. This has nothing to do with and is entirely separate from the discussion over troop levels in Iraq.

Talk to someone who either has a family member or friend in Iraq who is on their 3rd or 4th tour. This is no joke to them.

[k_jerome]

39. be careful, you are injecting coherent points into an...

environment that is not receptive to them.

[SaveElmer]

40. Yeah I am not commenting on the actual proposal...

I realize Kerry and later Hillary were proposing an increase to relieve the pressure on troops there...I was commenting on the hypocrisy of taking Hillary's proposal out of context to slam her now, without doing the same with other Democrats...

[MH1]

50. Well, you did not say that in your op.

What is it in the rules about not starting another thread to continue an argument?

Maybe the reason for that is no one has a friggin clue where you are coming from.

[ProSense]

38. There is a huge difference between Clinton's and Kerry's proposal

Sen. Clinton unveils bill to boost Army strength

Adds to her record of vocal support for Iraq war, military

By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | July 14, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton stood between the former heads of the US Military Academy at West Point and the Army War College yesterday and unveiled legislation that would add 100,000 soldiers to the Army, declaring that it should be a ''national priority" to field a significantly larger military.

Snip...

Clinton, who continues to support the Iraq war, has achieved a level of respect among the top brass that her husband never enjoyed as president. The Pentagon appointed her this year to an elite group of advisers on military transformation.

She has pushed hard for higher pay and better equipment for troops and visited troops in Iraq and Afghanistan twice. Her staff peppers the Pentagon with requests for information about troop salaries and healthcare. She bucked most of her Democratic colleagues last year and backed new spending for a ''missile shield," the latest version of former President Reagan's strategic defense initiative.

''She is building a record that looks to many as if she is a Republican and not a Democrat on the issues of war and peace," said Stuart Rothenberg of the Rothenberg Political Report in Washington.

more...

Kerry's proposal

[k_jerome]

45. no there isn't. nt.

[SaveElmer]

49. You left out this little tidbit....

The bill, which is also being proposed in the House by Democrats Ellen Tauscher of California and Mark Udall of Colorado, would help the Army reduce the number of deployments each soldier must make and take some pressure off the Reserve and National Guard, Clinton and other backers say. It would cost an estimated $12 billion....

[ncrainbowgrrl]

52. Locking.

Words like "caterwauling Hillary Haters" tend not to lead to productive threads.