"Obama's Toughest Sell May Be To Other Blacks"

[Infinite Hope]

"Obama's toughest sell for White House bid may be to other blacks"
by Stephanie Griffith 2 hours, 26 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US political darling Barack Obama has received enthusiastic support for a possible 2008 presidential bid -- except from fellow African-Americans, a group many believed would be among his staunchest backers.

In contrast to the effusive reception Obama has received from white Americans, many US blacks so far have been cool, saying that while they may share skin color with Obama, they do not have a common culture or history.

"Obama did not -- does not -- share a heritage with the majority of black Americans, who are descendants of plantation slaves," wrote African-American newspaper columnist Stanley Crouch last month in an article entitled "Barack Obama -- Not Black Like Me."

Radio host George Wilson, whose nationally-broadcast talk show tests the opinions of a cross-section of African-American listeners, said response to the Illinois senator so far has been "lukewarm."

"He's not getting as much of an enthusiastic send-off from black people as he is from whites," Wilson said.


More at link:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061221/pl_afp/usvoteobamarace2008_061221085638

-----

It's something I've pointed to as a distinct possibility. Skin color doesn't make you black. Black is an identity, not a color.

=================================
EDIT: COPYRIGHT. PLEASE POST ONLY
4 OR 5 PARAGRAPHS FROM THE COPYRIGHTED
NEWS SOURCE PER DU RULES.

[Kolesar]

1. I note that the excerpt quotes columnists &broadcasters, and not voters

[hughee99]

6. I noticed that too, it seemed fishy to me...

Not to sound too paranoid but it sounds like this piece here may have come at the "suggestion" of another campaign. It could be the repukes who don't want him in the next election (even as a veep candidate) or it could even be from another Democratic candidate's campaign, perhaps at the request of some "overzealous staffer".

I'm not saying that the basic premise is off, Obama doesn't share a common heritage or background with most African-Americans in America (neither would any other major presidential contender as it currently stands), but the writer suggests that this will be a problem for him to get AA votes. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to have any independent (official) polling to suggest this, and doesn't have any quotes from actual voters to back this up, just a few quotes from media pundits, one of which already wrote an article on this subject last month. To me, this story just reeks of someone who decided what their story and conclusions were going to be, and then had to force the story around it.

I'm not sure if I'm in tinfoil hat country, but I think this article is a political ploy from someone else. :tinfoilhat:

[karynnj]

7. It does seem to have no substantiation

It would seem that before writing this a poll of African Americans would be a good idea. The other thing is that just as Obama doesn't have the same family history as most African Americans - neither do his white opponents.

This seems less fishy, than lazy.

[Infinite Hope]

35. I think a poll, indeed, should have been conducted first.

Though I know several Americans of African descent who are luke warm to Obama because of his lack of experience. The say flat out that they won't vote for Obama just because he's black. Like anyone, they want someone they know will get things done.

[Kolesar]

14. The simpler explanation is that it is typical, lame political writing.

Boss says: "Give me something to put in print about Obama", "He's got a book out, you know". So, Stephanie Griffith complies. First, she goes and looks at what others are saying online. Then she flips through the Rolodex to find some black peoples' business cards and give them a ring. "Yeah, I'll have this done by 5" she thinks.

(Ok, I am having a little fun here. Y'all ought to look up what else Stephanie Griffith has written to be sure).

[Blue_Tires]

15. lol

as a former reporter, i can tell you that happens much more often than you think!

[beaconess]

67. Don't you love it - the implication is that Black voters will vote for white candidates

because they don't think that Obama is "black enough."

Excuse me? If Black voters are so color-struck that they would vote primarily based on race, why would they kick Obama to the curb for a White candidate? After all, he may not be "Black enough," but he sure is "blacker" than anyone else in the race, so wouldn't these color-struck, monolithic Black voters vote for Obama before they voted for anyone White?

:sarcasm:

[Kindigger]

2. Those are my thoughts also

he's not "black". I also have a problem with his idea that "it's time for the next generation to take over". I think he's referring to the baby boomers as the last, but I have a hard time putting all the boomers into one big category; the age spread is too large.

John Kerry was a member of the eldest of the boomers, and Obama, one of the youngest. I feel like there's a section in the center that is being skipped over...actually I feel sort of slighted. I see someone like Edwards as a representative of the center group of boomers.

[karynnj]

8. Kerry is not a baby boomer - he was born before the end of WWII

Clinton and Bush are the oldest baby boomers.

[Kindigger]

10. Sorry 'bout that

I was going to say Clinton, but didn't want to bother with the Mr.-Mrs. thing. I didn't check on Kerry's age...he just looks/sounds to me as a member of the same age group.

[karynnj]

20. No problem

With Kerry being the one who was with John Lennon and had support from both folk singers like Peter, Paul and Mary and rock icons, it is easy to think of him as a baby boomer.

In fact, his usaul polite, gentlemanly behavior may come from being both a pre-baby boomer and the son of a diplomat. (As a baby boomer - we are a generation that changed behavior and manners - and as an adult, I think some of that was not for the best. We did push every rights cause though - woman's rights, civil rights and gay rights for instance.)

[Infinite Hope]

36. Obama is 45. He is not a baby boomer.

The very last of the baby boom was 1960, but that's at the broadest definition. He was born 8 months into 1961.

[StoryTeller]

45. Not to nitpick here, but...

...since I had to look this up recently for something else, I'll post my trivia for you here. The elevated birth rates did not drop until 1964, according to the Baby Boomer Initiative (formerly the American Association of Baby Boomers). You can see their website here: http://www.babyboomers.com/yrindex.htm

For what it's worth, Obama is technically still a baby boomer. However, anyone on the tail end of a generation probably has qualities of both that generation and the one younger than it. Personally, as a gen-x'er, I find that people who are currently in their mid-to-late 40's seem much more "boomer-ish" than younger gen-x folks. There's definitely a different mindset. But generations are tricky, somewhat arbitrary notions anyway, so I think we still need to look at the individual first and not define him or her by their generation.

[Gman]

3. I voted for Jackson in the primaries in '84 and '88 and

I voted for Sharpton in '04 in the primaries. But I've got a whole lot of reservations about this epidemic of Obamapalooza going on. He hasn't showed me anything except be a 2-year freshman Senator.

[Dawgs]

5. Have you read his book?

[Gman]

61. Everybody writes a book

Whether Obama is Black or not is irrelevant. But one thing is certain, if by some lightning bolt of fate and/or luck Obama gets the nomination, he will need Blacks to turn out and vote. Right now, Blacks don't particularly trust him, and rightly so.

[beaconess]

63. "Blacks don't particularly trust him?" - and you know this how?

Please share your sources for this interesting insight into the views of Blacks.

Do Blacks trust Edwards or Clark or Vilsak or Biden?

Do you have any insights into any other ethnic groups views on Obama?

Do Asians trust him?

Do Hispanics trust him?

Do Poles trust him?

[Gman]

75. You must not be very involved in your community

and talk only to white people.

[beaconess]

76. Considering you don't know anything about me, your non-response response is laughable

[Gman]

81. I dont reply to responses that set up straw men

Poles? Spare us.

[beaconess]

86. In other words, you can't back up your claim and have nothing else worthwhile to say

Thanks for your input, pointless as it was.

[RetroLounge]

102. Blacks don't particularly trust him?

and you know all black voters?

:eyes:

RL

[Radical Activist]

104. the black voters who sent him to the Illinois Senate for 6 years trust him.

If you want to know more about Obama than two years in the US Senate, why don't you look at his State Senate record and his days as a community organizer?

[beaconess]

106. Don't you know? Obama only sprang to life the day White folks discovered him.

:sarcasm:

Flip Wilson had a funny routine about Colombus "discovering" America. He lands in the West Indies and finds all of these people going about their business on the island. One of them says (in Flip Wilson's falsetto) "Who the hell are you?"

Columbus says, "Why, I'm Christopher Colombus. I came to discover you."

"DISCOVER us? We don't need to be discovered! You better discover your ass on away from here!"

[Clark2008]

84. Obamapalooza!

:rofl:

That was a good one. :7

[Dawgs]

4. This is a joke, right?

The best quote I've heard about Obama's "blackness" was on NPR the other day. The women said something like, 'He does not come from the civil rights movement. He is the kind of black person that Martin Luther King wanted us to become.'

What the hell do you people want? If he was more "black" (whatever that means) people would be saying that he will care only about the black community. If he was filled with more hate and anger, they would say he is a racist; like Cynthia McKinney. If he had more street cred, they would say he is too controversial.

I swear it seems like some columnists (and DUers) spend all of their time trying to bring down Obama. What gives?

[Kindigger]

13. MHO

Trying to look through the eyes of different voting groups: (a) He's half black, and in some areas would be treated like Harold Ford was treated. (b) He's a "young pup, and wet behind the ears". (c) I personally feel slighted when he says its time for his generation to take over. I liked Obama when he gave his speech at the Dem convention. The more I see and hear of him, the more I feel he's just a snot.

He also hasn't done squat that would lead me to vote for him. For me, he's the polar opposite of H. Clinton, who has done too much.

[beaconess]

30. I call bullshit, too

The fact that some people chose to see him through their own prisms, doesn't mean that he's "trying to look through the eyes of different voting groups."

It sounds like you just don't like the guy.

[Infinite Hope]

37. Though...

even his supporters view him through "their own prism." I think both sides on the debate have very valid concerns to express.

[beaconess]

46. The difference is that you are using the very fact his supporters view him through their own prism

as "proof" that he is somehow inconsistent and trying to be all things to all people.

I agree that everyone has a right to express their valid concerns. I just don't think this particular criticism is valid. If you don't like him, so be it. But to claim that because different people see him in different ways (mostly positive), he is a "snot" is off base, in my view.

[Infinite Hope]

49. Actually...

""proof" that he is somehow inconsistent and trying to be all things to all people"

I ever used the fact that his supporters view things through their own prism as proof of anything. All I stated was that they do, in fact, view things through their own prism to demonstrate that everyone does. I never made a further point with that fact.

[Imagevision]

66. "Barack Obama -- Not Black Like Me."? > “Not by the color of their skin but

the content of their character” ...

[beaconess]

29. Amazing, isn't it? n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

9. Bullshit.

Everyone I know would love to see Obama run for president. I also hear many on the local black talk radio station wanting him to run.

Yeah, there are going to be a few who don't think Obama is "black" enough. But they're the exception.

On edit: We vote over 90% for Democratic presidential candidates. If Obama got the nomination, he would get that same 90% of our support (if not more).

[Pithy Cherub]

16. No Worries, here in Southern Cal

another place that pols need badly for cash, the movie industry is agog. There are a number of films featuring African Americans this year and the studio lots are buzzing about Obama and money. Oprah has come out for Obama. These articles pick out one or two people and then make a specious allegation with no empirical evidence. I'm Black and Obama is on my must see list - but a couple others have pride of place.

Obama was at Eso Won books and had a massive turn out as well as meeting with Tavis Smiley on his show. Another presidential wannabe was out here at the same time and wasn't even a footnote. On another recent trip, Obama came back behind the Orange Curtain and was warmly received. Obama is generating talk at the place you don't find a lot of white reporters or white pols until they are campaigning for something - Sunday at 11!;)

[Infinite Hope]

38. You're right, he'd get 90% in November, But...

...this article is about the primaries. Everyone you know wants him to run, but everyone you know doesn't represent the black community.

I know many blacks who are luke warm to him. Not because he's not "black" enough, in fact he's exactly their "type" of black (their words). It's just that he lacks the experience they desire.

Historically, the black community has been viewed as uniform and accepting without deliberation someone from their own race. That isn't how it works. They're individuals who, yes, have common interests, but that doesn't mean every black politician is the best to move those interests forth. What's going on here is that, while a large part of the black community wants him to run, part of the black community also are going to view all the presidential candidates and determine which will be the most effective in terms of results.

[Pithy Cherub]

43. Guess who gets the first hearing....

and the last. Obama has street cred and upside to compel people to give him a chance to be heard. Especially during the most segregated hour in America, Sunday at 11am. Not a monolitic vote, but definitely one that will look at self interest and a lifetime record of being for those issues that matter most to African Americans of all socio-economic conditions, rather than more recent converts to an issue. That will matter because it will go to credibility and authenticity.

[Infinite Hope]

50. You're exactly right.

Obama has the chance to prove themselves. I never said he couldn't nor wouldn't. Just that he hasn't yet proved himself to everyone and doesn't automatically get a free pass from his own race. They will critique him just like anyone else. Yes, some will be more likely to select him because of his race - that's a given. But much of the black community will be voting in the primary for their personal favorite choice, determined by their individual deliberations.

The black community will view him based on his merits, race being only one of the sum.

[Pirate Smile]

11. We had to know that the issue of his father being a Kenyan instead of

being descendant from slaves was going to come up.

The legacy of slavery v. immigrants or exchange students was always going to end up being a point of discussion.

[rosesaylavee]

12. Its not the color of his skin that qualifies him as

a great leader. Stupid premise. Bet we'll hear more of it.

[Infinite Hope]

39. Right, but his supporters,

especially those of African ancestry want to uniformly depict that entire segment of society as automatic Obama supporters. A very large portion of the black community actually resents that type of stereotyping, even from within. They want to be viewed as individuals with common interests, not people who all automatically think alike and make the same choices.

[rosesaylavee]

48. If he chooses to run

which he hasn't committed to publicly yet, his biography will stand him in good stead with any American - white, black or purple. He has had an opportunity to make a great deal of money - but instead has chosen time and time again to be a force for good in his community. His community is just getting bigger.

He is a good person. That fact will shine thru this crap when or if he chooses to run this time.

I am not sure who I will support in the primary though he would be at or near the top of my personal list. I have read his earlier book and have yet to hear him speak that I didn't agree with or at least understood the rightness of his position (if I didn't totally agree.)

He is the real deal and we are lucky to have someone of his calibre participating in the political arena in this very difficult time.

[Bombtrack]

17. Stanley Crouch is one of the most miserable assinine hacks in journalism

good to see he's staying consistant.

[skipos]

18. *yawn* In a general election, Obama would get about 90% of the black vote

like Democrats usually do.

[jefferson_dem]

28. 90%+, guaranteed. And watch that gender gap groW!

[Infinite Hope]

40. It's about the Primary. n/t

[oasis]

19. "Player haters" .

:P

[Elidor]

21. Not black enough for Stanley Grouch?

Perhaps Ice Cube would be more to his liking...

[maxsolomon]

22. laughable

what choice do african americans have if he's not 'black' enough for them? about as much choice as a left-of-the-democratic-party progressive has if the democratic candidate is too centrist for their taste.

a rich white republican man.

real tough decision.

[Infinite Hope]

41. So you're saying blacks will pick blacks because they're black. AKA Stereotyping. n/t

[maxsolomon]

78. i'm saying that blacks have traditionally voted democratic

in overwhelming percentages - 90%. i'm saying that 'inadequate blackness' is a laughable metric for african americans to base their vote on. hence my subject line "laughable".

however, i would contend (and i have no statistical backup) that should colin powell run for president as a republican, he would draw a significant percentage of that 90% historic vote away from the democratic candidate. and it wouldn't be republican values that drew that support - because the goals of the republican party are largely antithetical to the goals of the african american community.

and stereotyping? sure. for my edification, please post a generalized conclusion that is not drawn to some degree from stereotyping. "americans like corn syrup" is generally true, but there are many exceptions. i do not. but the particular does not invalidate the general. analysis is easy - synthesis is not.

[Infinite Hope]

80. Yes, 90%, but that's in a general election.

In a Democratic primary, they're all Democrats. Some liberal, some moderate, some between. It's a spectrum and the black community, like the white community, will vote according to values. Again, skin color may be a factor in voting, but it's going to be one of many. Not many are going to vote for Obama in a primary *only* because he's black. Those who vote in a primary at tend to be more politically aware and are not overall going to be voting based on a skin color.

[FrenchieCat]

23. As a Black person, I can attest to the fact that Barack would have no

problem gaining the Black Vote. It is not the Black vote that worries me, if Obama chose to run....that's for sure! :eyes:

Must be a "hack" writing this garbage!

[Eurobabe]

32. Yeah, me either, it's the slime on the other side

that will attempt to eviscerate him. Not 'black' enough, what bullshit.

[knowledgeispwr]

34. As a black person, I can attest to the fact that

no one black person can speak for all black people. Neither your opinion, nor mine, means anything for any one else. We're individuals, we aren't a monolith.

[Pithy Cherub]

42. As another Black person, I agree with Frenchie.

That means two individuals reaching out, should we choose, to other Black folks to help form opinions.

[Infinite Hope]

52. You agreeing doesn't mean blacks will automatically vote for Obama.

Quite clearly, some won't. And others will only after considering him as an individual.

Yes, some may vote for him because he's black, but only some. I know people of African ancestry who will not vote for him and others who are not sure whether they'll vote for him because they don't know enough of his background.

What I'm hearing here from some is that they think blacks will automatically vote for blacks, thus perpetuating the stereotype that blacks are uniform rather than individual. It presupposes all blacks do as you do. That isn't the case. No one can say it's the case because some blacks have outwardly expressed that they will not vote for Obama. Others have outwardly expressed they likely won't. Others have outwardly expressed they might not. To claim blacks will vote for blacks not only perpetuates a stereotype, but it ignores those who have already declared they will not follow that stereotype you are perpetuating.

Blacks vote for their issues and who they feel will best implement them. As we've seen in recent elections, that isn't always the black candidate.

I, for one, refuse to sell the black community short and back them into the corner of stereotype.

[Pithy Cherub]

57. It starts with individuals

building common cause. Then movements will grow if the message and messenger endures into a voting bloc. My point was to say that we start as individuals and then find areas of commonality and pointing out by indicating agreement (an example) that this may be the case. My agreement was to demonstrate that we start as individuals and then it grows. The biggest factor about Obama will be how other Blacks speak about him to one another. Again a demonstration by indicating agreement. he is not my first choice but he comes in far ahead of many others who have only lately (because its election time) appreciated the Black experience.

Your anecdotes are just that anecdotes. Empirical evidence won't be available for a long time. My individual assessment is that as I am Black I probably have a larger sample to pull from to see what is being really and honestly said and in larger groups where a range of AA opinion exists. No one is perpetuating a stereotype, except those quoted in the mindless article you posted. The point being that because of ethnicity, Obama will get a fuller vetting from people of color because he has a shared experience in many ways. That will be a door that many white candidates are not able to match by virtue of Obama's background. Common cause does not necessarily breed agreement with any candidate, but those that have lived a life of understanding of the Black Experience, will get heard and listened to because they have a long term record. See Bill Clinton. Toni Morrison as Nobel Laureate was not joking when she called Bill Clinton the first Black president. Other white politicians have to demonstrate they get understand and value the Black experience.

Obama already has the cadence of a person who has spent a significant amount of time in front of Black audiences. That will go far in helping him to build that voting bloc and add to it. His credentials can be questioned, but his Blackness is a proven fact for all audiences to consider should that be a criterion.

[Infinite Hope]

68. I never agreed with everything in the article, I was posting it for debate.

I agreed only to the point that not all blacks are behind Obama at this time. That isn't opinion. That is fact.

You're right that a movement could build. I'm merely saying that as things stand, blacks are not *all* behind him and they will not *all* vote for him merely because he is black. That's fact.

Blacks will vote in the primaries based upon who they support given all the facts. His skin color is one of those facts.

[beaconess]

58. Hear, hear

[warrens]

24. Yeah, Blacks are going to vote GOP over a Black Democrat

Bwahahahahahaha. Barack isn't kissing enough Black machine butt, and the machine is pissed he's talking over their heads to the common people.

[knowledgeispwr]

26. I'm not sure that's what this article is saying

I'm sure blacks are not going to vote for the GOP over Obama. BUT, there will be primaries, including an important one this go-around in South Carolina. I think the main thing this article is saying is that Obama will not automatically get support from Blacks just because he has ancestry from Africa.

I'm black, Generation Y, and right now Obama has not impressed me. That does not mean I'm out to get him or that I'm hatin', only that he hasn't impressed me yet.

[beaconess]

31. Most of the people quoted in the article seem to be saying that Obama is an unknown

quantity to many Blacks and that his background is not typical of most Black politicians.

Big deal. That's what the campaign is for.

Sounds like people have already run out of things to write about him - which may be good. Maybe if they get all of the "Oh, my GOD, a Black man is running for president!!! Let's talk about him being BLACK!!!" out of their systems, they'll just start covering him like they cover every other candidate.

Jeez.

[knowledgeispwr]

33. They haven't run out of things to write about him.

They are not talking about his drug usage (including cocaine) like he talks about in his book. I find that suspicious; it's almost like they are saving that up.

[beaconess]

47. I've heard it talked about. It's just not that interesting since he brought it up himself.

He talked about it in his book, he answers questions about it when asked and there's just no there there. He's a man in his mid-forties who tried drugs in his youth - just like quite a few other men of similar age.

I'm sure if anyone thought they could get mileage out of it, they'd have tried to drag it up by now - I think the fact that they aren't talking much about it shows that by putting on the table years ago, he very effectively preempted whatever "controversy" might have ensued.

And if someone brings it up, all they'd do is give Obama another opening for one of his disarming yet effective responses that tends to shut down the whole debate. For example, during an interview with a group of magazine editors, he was asked about his past drug use and whether or not he "inhaled."

"Of course, I inhaled," he responded. That was the point."

'Nuff said.

[Dr Fate]

25. BULL S*&$T- But he will have a problem with some Southern & Midwest WHITE males.

This article is apparently designed to make White biggots feel good about their ingrained reactions to black politicians like Obama:

"Well, I read that 'the blacks' dont like him either, so that means I *cant* be a racist for not liking him."

[knowledgeispwr]

27. Southern, Midwestern, Western, Northern...

Some people seem to think that certain parts of the country have the monopoly on prejudice.

[Dr Fate]

44. Some people like me only speak of places they know about.

I have no doubt that levels of racism are everywhere- I mention the South & Midwest by name b/c I know about what goes on there personally.

I'm in California now- I can honestly say that I dont see the racism against black males to the extent that I saw in the South when I grew up there.

Perhaps Californians are just better at hiding it?

OR

Perhaps my suggestion that Southern & Midwestern males in particular would be the ones who are most opposed to Obama has merit?

"Everybody does it" does not seem to change the fact that there are more racist White males in the South than in other regions.

[Infinite Hope]

54. Obama would be strong in the Midwest and even South...

...depending on the state and even the locality.

Minnesota wouldn't have a problem with him. Wisconsin, Michigan, nor Illinois wouldn have much of a problem with Obama based on race. Really, Iowa would have only minimal problems if there was any noticeable problem at all. In North and South Dakota, states he wouldn't win anyway, race may be a slight issue as well as Nebraska and perhaps Indiana.

In the South, some states may have race concerns, but Obama would also bring out the black vote in ways it has never been brought out before. Currently, in many places, the black community votes at a rate of only 20% and that's even high turnout in some places.

In the Southwest, race would also be a factor in states like Texas. I know from experience from interning with a particular congresswoman there and working on these issues during that time, that Texas, if blacks turned out to vote, would be a tossup state. Massive efforts have been made to register blacks in Texas, but it's difficult because of lack of funds and lack of volunteers in that area. A name like Obama could energize blacks in those areas because, especially in Dallas, some don't trust white politicians and therefore don't vote most of the time. This is a situation where his race would be a plus. Though, generally, the black community will view him based on his merits, race being only one of the sum.

[rpannier]

51. You mean to say all Blacks don't think exactly the same???

That there is diversity within the African-American community like there is in all other racial communities???

Damn!!! Could have knocked me over with a feather! I'd never have guessed!! :sarcasm:

[Infinite Hope]

55. LOL n/t

[KeepItReal]

53. That premise is hot garbage. Folks like me don't support Obama because he hasn't earned it yet

I need to see him do more than give fiery, inspiring speeches and write good books.

Let see him call some hearings in the Senate (now that the Democrats actually have some power) and draft some legislation that makes a difference on a national scale. There is no track record for me to point to and say, "See he was governor of a state... or See he was Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, or see he was Vice-President of the United States." All I can say is "See, he got elected to the Senate, but the Democrats weren't allowed pass any legislation."

I could give a rats azz who his mama and daddy are or where they came from.

When Senator Obama starts participating in the Senate with some power, that's when his clock starts in terms of earning my particular vote. I wanna see him do good things. He sounds like a good and decent guy who I really hope lives up to the hype.

[beaconess]

56. Self-Delete

started another thread

[sofa king]

59. It won't matter AFTER the primaries, that's for sure.

Black or white, activist or not, if Obama does win the nomination he's going to have the most important designation of all behind his name at the ballot box:

(D)

Which is a practical guarantee that nine out of ten of the most loyal and valuable Democrats there are, African Americans, are going to vote for him for President--assuming they can get to the polls, which may be assuming a lot considering the millenium so far.

Obama has more than a year to work his magic before the primaries even open, and he's seems to have the wizard's touch so far.

[beaconess]

64. Bingo!

[Infinite Hope]

69. You're right. In the general, he'll have 90+%. n/t

[Thrill]

60. This is ridiculius

Its his message that will resonate with Black americans. Not his skin color.

[beaconess]

65. I'm starting to wonder if this "Blacks don't trust Obama" meme is being driven by

a fear that, with Obama in the race, some of the White candidates who have been talking a good game, will now have to walk their talk a lot more seriously.

Just wondering.

[Infinite Hope]

70. For those who that quote, that's probably true. n/t

[Infinite Hope]

71. Exactly. n/t

[Imagevision]

62. Did ya'll see Oprah's show when she endorsed Barack Obama??

now this gal can sell some books, I was most pleased to hear she was backing Obama!!

[rucky]

72. I wonder how Carrot Top polls...

among the red-headed prop comics? Not as well as you may think.

[fuzzyball]

73. Obama could face the same problem Ford faced in TN

Ford is just as charming and has just as many leadership
qualities as Obama. But his skin color cost him votes.

[beaconess]

77. While Ford is great, I think Obama has much more savvy and ability to woo voters

Moreover, Tennessee isn't the U.S. and a Senate race isn't a presidential race. The dynamics will be totally different.

But that, notwithstanding, my response is "so what?" If Obama loses votes because of racism, so be it. That doesn't mean he shouldn't get in the race. Every candidate brings his/her own ups and downs, plusses and minuses and just lets the voters decide. Some people won't vote for Edwards because he's from the South, some people won't vote for Clark because he's a career military man, some people won't vote for Kerry because he's a Massachusetts liberal, some people won't vote for Kucinich because he's short, and so on. The fact that some people might not vote for Obama because of his race is just one of the downsides he'll have to try to overcome.

But I'm sick and tired of people suggesting that Obama shouldn't run because he's Black while they cheer on every White Tom, Dick and Harry who is even thinking about sticking their toe in the water, regardless of how illogical their candidacy is. I'm not saying that you're doing that, but far too many DUers are, which is a damned shame - and reveals more about the so-called liberal wing of our party than I wish I knew.

[fuzzyball]

79. Anybody and everybody should run who thinks

he/she has a chance to win. It's like buying a lottery
ticket. If you don't buy 1 you won't win. If you buy 1,
there is a chance however slim.

I never said Obama should not run. Just pointing out some
hard cold reality out there. Personally, IMVHO what could
hurt Obama most is his muslim middle name. That aspect will
be exploited mercilessly.

[beaconess]

82. I don't worry about Obama being swift-boated over his name

He has proven his ability to handle these kinds of smears with grace and deflection to the point that they mean nothing. I have no doubt he'll be able to smack down deftly any attempts to use his middle name against him.

[fuzzyball]

83. Sen kerry thought he could handle swiftboating also....

but only time will tell. You don't know how things
will turn out (unless you can read the future) and
I don't know how either.

I have my doubts if the nation is ready to vote for
a president whose father was a muslim. Not with so
much news about islamic related terror news out there.

[beaconess]

85. Obama is much effective as a communicator than Kerry

But even if you don't think so, then you'd have to believe that WHOEVER is nominated is going to get swiftboated and won't be able to overcome it.

And now you've come up with another problem for Obama - his father. I'm growing extremely bored with all of these reasons that Republicans are going to pick on Obama - as if every other Democrat who could get the nomination would be immune from Republican attacks.

And the "America's not ready" meme is also worn out. First of all, who IS this America you're talking about? I'm American and *I'M* ready for something different and I believe many other Americans are, too. Unlike some people, I don't believe that the lowest common denominator of our population should be the standard by which we determine in what direction our country is going. If we'd adhered to that way of thinking throughout our history, Black folk would still be slaves and women would not have the vote, among other things.

America is NEVER ready for anything until we MAKE America ready for it - and the only way to do this is to force "America's" hand. Suggesting that a Black candidate should take a backseat or stay out of the way because "America's not ready" for him is, in my view, not only bullshit, but plays right into the hands of the most bigoted segment of our society. If we hold back our own out of fear that "America's not ready" for them yet (and, by the way, when exactly WILL America be ready and how will we be notified of this change?) puts us in the position of doing the bigots' dirty work of maintaining the status quo without them having to lift a finger. Why make it more convenient for them?

[fuzzyball]

89. Because it is better to know the pitfalls BEFORE taking the journey...

but like I said before, anyone and everyone who thinks
they can get elected president should give it a try by
all means. Whoever is the nominee of our party, I will
vote for in the GE unless an extremist is nominated, which
I don't see happening. I am basically a centrist.

[Infinite Hope]

87. I don't think his father's religion will matter...

especially given Barak himself now follows the Christian doctrine. I think that, of all issues, is a non-issue for Obama.

[beaconess]

88. Of course it's a non-issue - but that won't stop some DUers from twisting themselves in knots

trying to find potentially negative things the Republicans might try to use against Obama as justification for their insistence that he cannot possibly win and, therefore, should not run - an exercise they don't seem to engage in when it comes to White candidates.

Interesting dynamic, isn't it?

[fuzzyball]

90. How many negative posts have you seen regarding Hillary saying

she can't win, here in DU? If I had a dollar for every
such post I would be a millionaire. Do you have a problem
with Hillary being the nominee in 2008?

I think she is the strongest candidate we have. She will
run very strong amongst blacks, women and centrists. Enough
to win. She has very few negatives except the right wing of
republics will never vote for her.

[beaconess]

91. Most anti- Hillary posts are based on her positions, not her race or gender

I have seen very few posts insisting that Hillary can't win because she's a woman and therefore she shouldn't run.

I like Hillary. I don't know if I'd vote for her in the primary - I have other favorites - but if she got the nomination, I would definitely support her wholeheartedly.

[fuzzyball]

92. The ONLY position they are against is her IWR vote...

I can't think of any other position Hillary has taken
that is refuted on DU. At the time she voted for IWR
it was the right vote based on intelligence known at
that time. Majority of elected leaders voted for IWR
including Kerry and Edwards.

The extreme left wing on DU is against any war at any time.
Reasons be damned.

Some threads berate Hillary for not being reliable. Well,
she has not disappointed me in any material way. And neither
did Bill Clinton disappoint me.

[beaconess]

97. Put on your helmet and duck for cover:-)

[Radical Activist]

105. Being a conservative cost Ford votes.

I think that had more to do with it than his skin color. He doesn't represent the political values of most black people. The same isn't true for Obama.

[Infinite Hope]

108. Very true.

He made himself indistinguishable from Corker on some issues. If conservatives and moderates were looking at two candidates virtually identical candidates (generally speaking) they might as well vote for the Republican (in their eyes). If Ford had actually run as a Democrat, he'd have more easily rallied Democrats and left-leaning independents and also given an alternative to the Republican ways. He virtually made himself a Republican and so, as many saw it, why not just vote for the Republican? Further, some who knew Ford better and may have voted for him were probably were unnerved by the suddenly-different Ford. It leads one to wonder "who's the real Ford? Who am I electing?"

And before someone attacks, sure, those of us who know better know Ford isn't as conservative as he made himself appear to be. But for most voters, it's the appearance that matters and Ford went to great lengths to define himself to voters as a conservative.

[beaconess]

110. He really hurt himself with his base when he came out against the Alito filibuster

[Eurobabe]

74. WTF? Colin Powell was being touted by the CONS awhile back

as a "black man" who could easily win the Presidency. Does his Jamaican heritage make him an easier sell? (or would it have?) He was certainly no Jesse Jackson type, but a career military man.

Before he got involved with Il Dunce, he had tremendous cross over appeal. Forget any of that now, his legacy is in tatters due to his covering for Bush.

PS. Someone mentioned on another thread that they wonder if the Republican OPS are coming on here to get material to use against us, you know -- how we convene the circular firing squad and shoot our own? I think it would be otherwise NAIVE to think that there aren't moles among us for this very purpose. If negative comments about Dem candidates fire up us "thinkers," they sure as hell would make some great cannon fodder for the Republican Hoi Polloi!!

[Quantess]

93. Sounds like a steaming pantload.

Now let me read other people's responses!

[cleveramerican]

94. Trust is a quaint old fashioned notion

of course nobody trusts him! nobody trusts politicians of any stripe ever. Trust can be earned but its never awarded. Being cynical and sarcastic is the new national pastime.

[Doctor_J]

95. So one loony right-wing Uncle Tom like Stanley Crouch constitutes

"Black America"?

Rove is overreaching on this one.

[beaconess]

98. Unfortunately, to many White folks, any Black person speaks for EVERY Black person

Even among some of our brethren on DU.

[Infinite Hope]

99. Exactly.

I've even seen two DUers with some African descent thinking *they* speak for all blacks in their support for Obama in the primaries.

[beaconess]

101. That is strange, isn't it?

Funny, we don't see White DUers saying, "You know, I'm White and White people think . . ."

[knowledgeispwr]

112. Unfortunately....

Unfortunately, in American society still, any minority is treated like the ambassador for his/her respective group, so it's not surprising that some of those minorities begin acting like ambassadors.

[JNelson6563]

96. Ever see Chris Rock talk about a black VP?

Hilarious! He talks about if there was a black VP he couldn't wait to kill the president! Says one of two things would happen, he'd either be pardoned by the country's first black president or he'd go to prison and be treated like a hero.

Julie

[Infinite Hope]

100. lol n/t

[Radical Activist]

103. Alan Keyes tried to pull this crap.

Keyes claimed to be more black because he was descended from slaves while Obama wasn't. It pissed a lot of people off and rightly so. It's extremely insulting and offensive. Obama does just fine with black voters.

[beaconess]

107. Obama represents one of the major aspirations of the civil rights movement and its leaders

That Blacks would eventually be defined by a much broader pallette than just our ancestors previous conditions of servitude.

[talk hard]

109. Obama should have zero problem rallying the black vote.

I don't see how he can miss.

[beaconess]

111. You're right - but it won't be just because he's Black

Otherwise, we'd have Senator Steele, Governor Swann and Senator (or maybe Vice President) Keyes.

Black voters tend to be very sophisticated and, like other voters, carefully select their candidates based on the issues. However, if Black voters agree with Obama on the issues, the fact that he's Black will be an added bonus - voting for him would invoke a sense of excitement and collective pride that one of our own is in the game. I don't think that most of us would vote for Obama just because he's Black, but the fact that he's Black will sure make us feel good about voting for him!

[snowbear]

114. I agree w/you ~ there would be no problem.. Which is why I'm surprised this thread is still alive..

It's like the Twilight Zone or something...

This thread disappears into oblivion, and then =BAM= somehow.. some way.. for whatever reason... it keeps reappearing..

Strange..

[beaconess]

116. Yeah - I wonder why.

No, actually I don't.

[Infinite Hope]

115. Nailed it, beaconess. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

113. Obama is a candidate

with plenty of substance regardless of race and it's time for the Democrats to dispel the myth of racial boundaries once and for all and rally behind a candidate of color for the top job.