Don't send the baby boomers to pasture, yet

[question everything]

In one of the many stories about Obama, one comment was that he is supposed to be a fresh face, not a baby boomer like Clinton and Bush and Clinton.

Hey, the oldest baby boomers are now 60 getting on 61. But most are in their 50s and have a lot to contribute and to offer. Most have the intelligence and knowledge to look back and to see what works, and to look at the future and to realize that we are in the 21st Century, we are in a global economy, we are facing danger from terrorists with no central government and regular armies.

I am sure that there are many reasons for Obama to some day be the President, but simply trashing the baby boomers in 2007 and 2008 is really not smart, not intelligent, not with insight, not with deep thinking and meaningful conclusion.

[annabanana]

1. AND.. we are the last American generation who can remember

what America was like before the Reagan devolution began.

[havocmom]

4. My daughter was thinking about JFK last month, watching old film

of his speeches and such. Said she envied me, living in a time when there was at least a little hope and inspiration.

That made me really sad, but she has a point. There has been a serious shortage of leaders, real leaders, who inspire rather than dictate.

Clinton was a decent break in the autocrats, and that is probably one reason they hate him so much, he gave people a look at what leadership actually is. The GOP puppets hated that reminder

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. When was Obama born?

I heard he was at the tail end of the Boomer generation.

[CountAllVotes]

3. 4 August 1961

Obama's birthdate.

:dem: :kick:

[question everything]

5. 1961, according to Wikipedia

You are right. The baby boomers are officially the ones born between 1946 and 1964. But it was clear that the ones born after 1955, I think, were really different from the earlier ones. For once, they were still toddlers when the events of the 60s were shaped by and influenced the older boomers.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

6. We've had discussions on this before

About what do you do when you're between 50 and 65???

Not old enough to retire, but thrown out of the workforce, no matter how fabulous your skills and education, because of age discrimination and cheapthink. I really wonder if my 12 years of college and three degrees were a total waste of time. We thought we would get better jobs with more education. I got an associates degree that was vocational school and that was the only one that helped me get a job & have a semblance of a career. But I was burned out before I was forty.


I think we have a lot to contribute still. I'm 51, born in '55, right in the middle of the baby boomers, considered to be born between 46 and 64.


First we need to get rid of the ancient ones that are hanging on from the Reagan/Poppy Bush years.

I don't think Sen. Obama has enough experience yet to run for president.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

7. 65 is not nearly as old as it used to be, either

When I was a kid in the sixties, my grandparents were born in the 1890s.

And they were in their sixties and seventies, and they were OLD. Really OLD. Using canes, shuffling, false teeth and all that. It seemed like people in their fifties were pretty old too, unless they made a real effort to stay active. And back then, people dropped dead of heart attacks and there was no way to save anybody with stents, bypasses, drugs etc.

Nowadays, with heart bypasses, pacemakers, and other medical advances, OLD doesn't seem to hit until your eighties if you stay active and interested in the world. My dad stayed active until the end, and he died within a month before his 89th birthday. My grandmother on mom's side, who was an overachiever before they invented the word, made it to 86 with nearly all her marbles intact, even though she was in a nursing home for two years.

Hope some of those longevity genes will be with me.

[question everything]

11. Antibiotics and vaccinations

I often wonder about the extrapolation that actuarians do when they predict how long we, the baby boomers will live based on our parents and grandparents.

They were healthy babies who survived when infant mortality was hight. They survived without antibiotics and vaccination and, as you say, bypass and stents and insulin shots and high blood pressure pills. And one has to wonder about how far will these marvels of modern medicine will carry through old age. I don't know. Nobody knows. These will have to be empirical studies as we age.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. What scares me

is that two of my great grandmothers were still alive when I was a kid in the '50s (born in '51), living on their own, rather fiesty individuals, who died in their 90s. No wonder medicines for them. And I've a many great grandfather who lived to be 106, plus aunts and uncles living into their 90s, all before the "miracle medicine" of today.....ouch, does that mean I'll live that long? With the way the world is going, I don't know that I want to!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

15. Same here

I had a great grandmother that lived from 1853 to 1953, and decided to die about a week before her 100th birthday, according to my dad born in 1911 (it was his grandmother).

[ChiciB1]

37. Took Another Look At this Thread & HAD To Reply To THIS Post

I'm a Boomer myself, an older one that someone stated needed to be out of the way. When I think of going on 60 it DOES NOT seem old at all! WHEN I was 30 and the comments about not trusting anyone over 30 where "all the rage" the time seemed to be so far off into the future! Now, I am my future and can't say I feel old at all! I'm very very active myself and still involve myself in sports and all kinds of physical activities. I'm still very interested in all the new technology coming down the pike and want to stay on top of the stuff. It moves so fast these days and it's hard to keep up with, but I try. We aren't "old" in the sense my parents were old at 55, or so it seems that way to me.

BUT, what I really wanted to say is this.... My mother-in-law has been living with us for almost 8 years now and she is 94! We have adapted to it quite well even though I'm sure my husband I both would prefer she was able to care for herself, but she isn't. What I have come to believe and realize myself is that I DO NOT want to live to be her age if I'm not mentally able to enjoy it. She has severe Alzheimer's and needs complete care even though she is actually in pretty good health. She takes NO medications of ANY sort for any illness, but mentally she is a blank slate. The only thing she can actually do for herself anymore is feed herself. Something that still amazes me because her mental capacities are quite diminished. I saw an MRI of her brain not long ago, and there is a decided gap between her brain and skull and I was very surprised that anyone could still be functioning on any level with that much atrophy!

We do get her up every single day, but she lives in "another world" and I can only believe that she is here because she has yet to learn something before her time is up. Perhaps it's something as simple as learning that she needs to understand what it means to have someone take complete care of another person. I really don't know and never will, but I will say this.... PLEASE whatever is my fate.... I want OUT before I EVER have to live the life she does. And yes, I do realize she isn't aware of the condition, but I almost think I would prefer to check myself out before I get to where she is.

I just file the experience as.... Things Happen For A Reason!! However, most of us don't know what that reason is!

[question everything]

38. I am sorry

My mother died of Alzheimer's and, like you mother-in-law, was in otherwise excellent health.
This has been one of the problems in developing successful drugs; most seniors take so much medication that it would be difficult to separate the effects of new drugs.

Yes, it is amazing that she can feed herself. My mom was in a home for her last 8 years, since we, the children, were living apart and my dad, with his weak heart, could not care for her.

Yes, it is amazing that she can feed herself but... please, do not expect her to understand anything. We are used to deal with babies that start with a blank slate and we can see them learning and understanding. And sometime we think that our Alzheimer's parents and grandparents are like babies. They are not. I used to visit my mom with my dad and he would wonder, loud: what is going on inside her brain? Does she feel? Does she think? Does she realize we are there? Which is why I've always tried to talk to her and never talked about her when she could hear, just in case.

And I knew that if she could have stepped out of her state, she would have hated to live like that, always cherished her independence. And when we talk about helping patients in terminal illnesses out of their miseries, I often think of her. And of myself, in the future. Even if ever we would be allowed to express our wishes to actively end our lives, who will ever accept such a wish from an Alzheimer's patient, wondering whether such a patient was of sound mind?

A writer, I think it was V. S. Naipaul, once wrote that the the purpose of life is... living. And even if someone is in excruciating pain, this is part of living. But what do Alzheimer's patients experiencing?

Again, I am sorry about what you are going through. It is very difficult to watch a loved one deteriorating, constantly looking at her, searching for signs of what this person used to be.

[ChiciB1]

39. Thank You For Your Comments... Having Her Live Here With

us for so long I DO THINK we ALL are supposed to be learning something. Perhaps this is the result of my experiences regarding the "Dawning Of The Age Of Aquarius!"

Since my husband held a job that was "union related" he was able to retire early and we took her in. IMO, unless a person actually sees Alzheimer's first hand I personally think it's hard for many others to completely understand this illness. I have been told that this illness was called a mental illness in the past, but I'm not really sure myself. I think that living longer and longer, new drugs and procedures to lengthen life has evolved this way and this is what we are getting. Dementia is very different although perhaps it's what happens BEFORE Alzheimer's. I've been told different things by different doctors and I have some strong feelings about developing new drugs to treat this illness. IF it's possible to prevent the onset, then okay.... however having seen what taking Aricept did for her I don't think it's worth the cost. Aricept simply did nothing and cost a LOT of money. But hey, what do I know??

I agree with you that "we" don't know what they do or don't understand and one should be careful talking around patients who are diagnosed with this. I do see gradual changes from time to time, but I remain AMAZED that she still feeds herself because her awareness is so limited. About a year ago she would complete sentences, most that made no sense at all and we just nodded and agreed with what she would say, now she starts sentences and never completes them.

So now we complete them, she nods in agreement and we go along. Because I have seen so much, I wish this disease wasn't even on scene and as I said before... I would like to opt out before it happens to me. And I also KNOW, she would NEVER want to live this way if she really knew what it has done to her.

Thank you again.

[question everything]

9. This is very strange

Could have been written by me, except that I am older and have resigned myself to early retirement.

But yes, I remember my spouse once - back in the early 90s before Clinton got elected - wondering about being misled. We were the generation that was inspired to go to science after the Russian sputnik scared us.

We got our graduate degrees when the NIH and NSF were generous in sponsoring academic research.

And then came Reagan with his anti-intellectualism and anti scholarship and funds for academic research were cut. So we went out to the real world to get jobs as scientists, only to lose our jobs when the employer decided that this line of research was not translated into quarterly increase in the price of the share.

And, like you, after several degree I went to a vocational school and that helped me get the next series of jobs. I groan when I hear about CEOs lying on their resumes, claiming degrees and attendance in institutes of higher landing that they never did. I lied on my resume to remove any mention of an advanced degree.

I also read how many employers are getting worried about many baby boomers retiring and the need to replace them... at the same time they, as you pointed out, not sure about hiring us.

[mikehiggins]

16. RUn for local office

I mean, honestly, we've seen the people holding office for years now. Are they doing a good job?

Me, I think the only way to make sure an elected official does the right thing is to BE that elected official. Of course, the way the system works that is not going to be an easy move to pull off but one thing older, retired people have in their favor is lots of time.

And if they're on pension, like me, they don't have to worry about their day job either.

I just became a grandfather for the first time and looking at my little grandson the only thought that comes to me is whether I can trust politicians to do the right thing for him and all those little kids like him. Somehow I doubt it.

Grey(ing) Power!

[sandnsea]

8. There's two different sets of boomers

The ones who were children in the 50's and the ones who were children in the 60's. Those of us of the latter group never had that nostalgic 50's childhood. When we look back, we see war, racial injustice, assassinations, murders of college students, etc. Our experience is different, and that's why I think we get a slightly different message from people like Edwards & Obama.

[question everything]

10. Fascinating read from Wikipedia

Definition

To date, there are various designations for the beginning of the Baby Boomer generation. In his book, Boomer Nation, Steve Gillon breaks Baby Boomers into two groups: Boomers, born between 1945 and 1957; and Shadow Boomers born between 1958 and 1963. In some cases the term Shadow Boomer is incorrectly applied to the children of the Baby Boomers. However this group is more accurately referred to as Echo Boomers.

William Strauss and Neil Howe, in their book Generations, include those conceived by soldiers on leave during the war, putting the generation's birth years at 1943 to 1960. Howe and Strauss argue that persons born between 1961 and 1964 have political and cultural patterns very different from those born between 1955 and 1960 and fit into what those writers term the Thirteenth Generation or Generation X (also known as the Cold War generation) born between 1961 and 1981. As the influence of Strauss and Howe has grown, a smaller number of people still accept Baby Boomers as including those born after 1961, although there are some who put the dates at 1946 to 1963 because of the number of significant "Gen-X" figures born in 1964. There were over 79 million babies born during that generation.

It can be argued that the defining event of early baby boomers was the Vietnam War and the protest over the draft, but it would be certainly correct to say it was the generation of The Beatles, The Motown Sound, Beats and Hippies. Conscription in the United States ended in 1973 so anyone born after 1955 was not subject to the draft. This argues for a ten year range 1946 to 1955 and this would fit the thirtysomething demographic covered by the TV show of the same name. This means that those born in the years 1956 to 1965 would be Generation X in the late 1980s and would be twenty something as a response. On the other hand, if the gross number of births were the indicator, there would be no reason for 1964 to be the ending year as the number of births did not decline in 1965. The choice of 1964 as the end date may not have been set by a demographer but by more popular writers and the source of the 1964 year has not been pinned down yet. The entire controversy over naming and dating between the boomer and the Gen X cohorts could be explained by noting that the boomer years of 1946-64 is too long for a cultural generation yet may still mark a period of increased births while the cultural disaffinities of those born after 1957 (thereby missing the draft and being too young to be part of the 1960s) could be captured by the Gen X of Douglas Coupland, the term "X" has itself been transformed to cover a later cohort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers

[sandnsea]

13. Sounds about right

I was born in 1957 and never did relate to any of the 'boomer' trends or thinking. I've heard some others complain about following boomers being like following an elephant herd. Well it's true for us 'shadow' boomers too. By the time we're ready to make any given financial decision, the first wave has flooded whatever market and made it insane for us. It started from the times we first went into the work force, they had flooded the job market leaving us with 10% unemployment. And on it went. I think our parents are even different, theirs being WWII and ours being Korean War. Those sets of folks looked at the country differently too, one group came up in the roaring 20's, the other in the Depression. Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one who never thought we were one demographic block.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

14. it was very competitive

There were so many of us boomers that it was incredibly competitive, and some of us who damn near killed ourselves working hard and going to school (often both at the same time) got nowhere. We were all told by the pop shrinks to get mentors and to network, and to be assertive so we'd get promoted. That was ALL a bunch of lies.

Anytime I have asserted myself, it has NEVER gotten me anywhere, and just made the person I was arguing with yell back at me. This increased, not decreased, my sense of helplessness as far as getting a better job.

I can't figure out if the problem was sex or money. I never bribed a judge or lawyer, and didn't have sex with them. I hate to be crude, but I just never felt like an insider or like I had any job security.

We didn't have mentors guiding us, because we were all being competitive. I'm sure I got backstabbed numerous times at work and never was even aware of it. Bunch of crabs in a basket.

[ChiciB1]

40. This Information Is Really Interesting! I Understand It Completely!

I'm a Viet Nam Era Boomer... much like Kerry, I think I'm 1 or 2 years younger, but had many Friends who were drafted and many who died. I actually got married to keep my husband FROM getting drafted. They called his number, we went to a Justice of the Peace and got married! That we are still together today is TRULY strange! I WAS NOT ready to get married and think back now on what a stupid decision we made. My husband is 4 years older than me and I had just graduated from high school and wanted to go to college. But things happen for a reason, I guess! But going back to Class Reunions, very few people who got married back then are still together.... we ARE an oddity!

I was an Army brat so was actually entrenched in the whole mess and have strong strong feelings about all things "military!" I also realize that my experience is different from the "military" experience of today! But I'm a Revolutionary type, and remember how the Beatles changed so much of my life! I will say though that I am happy to remember that Mickey Mouse Club time, it was so very innocent, or so we thought.

I became more radical and liberal when I learned the truth about how a Government lies to it's people!

[Skittles]

19. hello

I was born in '57 and I remember what you remember

[Zookeeper]

36. I agree. I was too young to participate in the late 60's...

hippie stuff. And, as a burgeoning Feminist, it never looked like a particularly good deal for women anyway. I identified more with Punk culture when it hit in '77.

I'm officially a "Boomer," but I want to scream everytime I see that stooopid commercial with slimy Dennis Hopper pandering to "peace and love" Boomers on behalf of Ameriprise Financial. I can't believe even older Boomers respond to that cheesy sales pitch.

[ellenfl]

17. our current government expects us to work well

into our 70s i think. i believe it's a backhanded way of telling is that social security will not be around for us. i have seen a lot of propaganda to this effect. whatever happend to working for 20 years and retiring with a gold watch? or was that just in the movies.

ellen fl

[Igel]

18. I'm 47. Not ready to be sent to pasture yet.

It used to be 1/1/60 was the cut off for boomer/post-boomer. That seems to have changed since the late '70s. (When did that happen, anyway?)

Eh. You know what they say, don't trust anybody under 30.

[Blue_In_AK]

21. That's what I thought, too...

1946 to 1960.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

24. I'm 48 . . .

No pasture in the near future for me!!!!

[kineneb]

28. also 48, not ready for "pasture"

the tail end of the baby boom is still relatively young...

[we can do it]

29. I Just Turned 48 Two Weeks Ago

still trying to make some sense in this world.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

32. You raise a good point.

I really would not want to be any younger. It's taken me this long to really kind of figure out what life is all about, and I'm happier than I've ever been.

I've been fortunate to have started exercising vigorously in my early 20s (about the only thing I did right at that age), and so I'm still in good shape physically. And I'm finally in good shape emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.

Bring on 50 baby!!!

[we can do it]

34. Wow - We Are Alike In Other Ways

I started working out in 81-82 and am still at it - it keeps me going....then the 2000 election scam and whoa, a sudden major interest in our government (sorry to admit it), I've always been pro-environment, civil rights, etc....but after realizing our government had been hijacked - it was like getting a bucket of cold water poured over my head. I will never be able to go back to complacency.

[Blue_In_AK]

20. Hey, even us 60-year-old boomers have a lot to offer....

I'm going to live another 33 years, according to the psychics, so I'm not even 2/3 done yet.

[all.of.me]

33. i am just getting started

and i will be 53 in a few weeks. i have never felt more powerful, centered and ready to live. i hope to have another 50+ years to effect some change in the world.

[Radical Activist]

22. I had enough of the Baby boomer issues in 2004.

I don't give a shit what people did during vietnam and my generation doesn't want yet another campaign that focuses on crap that happened 40 years ago. Baby Boomer candidates keep arguing yesterdays arguments. Not just on Vietnam but on the size of government, the culture war, welfare, and everything else. Obama understands how to speak to Generations X an Y in a way that boomers never have.

[question everything]

23. Not all of them

I don't think that Bill Clinton, for example, talks about the past.

I agree with you that Kerry emphasizing his Vietnam service, especially during the convention, was a mistake. He went against the successful Clinton campaign of 1996, he looked to much into the past and gave the swifters an opening.

It is a sad commentary that you cannot find any boomer who can speak to generation X and Y. Certainly Howard Dean, Al Gore and John Edwards can.

One of the criticism of Obama is that he speaks in platitudes, in generalization... the way gens X and Y talk and think. There was a great program on "60 minutes" about Y and, in general, this is a generation of followers, not leaders. Laid back, tolerant of those who are of different race and sexual orientation, nice people to have around but not leaders who can take a stand and make decisions, even unpopular ones.

And this goes to my personal objection to any senator with no executive experience running for president. This is why one is the legislative branch and the other - executive one. The Senate is supposed to be the greatest debating chamber. You are not supposed to use tunnel vision to pick an opinion and stick to it no matter what. You are supposed to debate, to deliberate, and, yes, to change your opinion without being called a "flip flop."

As an executive, however, you have to be able to formulate a plan, to gather the necessary resources, or to rely on the resources that you have, and to be able to implement it, while continually checking for progress and setback and, yes, changing a course.

This is why, even though Obama in 2007 will be the same age that Clinton was in 1992, cannot be compared since his experience is only as a legislative and, apparently, as a teacher. This is why governors, or military commanders, or CEOs, or even mayors, will be better candidates.

[Radical Activist]

25. It wasn't just Kerry.

How much have we had to hear about what Clinton did during Vietnam? Or Gore, or Bush. We've all had to hear endlessly about what people did in the 60's for the last 14 years. Its an obsession that does not have the same emotional relevance for younger generations. The swift-boaters attacked Kerry because they're still angry that he spoke out against the war and a large portion of the public responded to that. Its a lot of boomer baggage.
But its not just Vietnam. They look at things through the old paradigms.

Dean and Edwards are a little better but I can't agree about Gore. Gore spent 2000 talking about social security and prescription drugs for SENIORS, as if young people don't have medical needs and don't matter. He talked about K-12 education reform which helps the children of boomers but he only spoke about higher education and student financial aid when he was at a college campus. He barely even mentioned the environment, which would have reached more young people. Gore had almost nothing to say to young voters during that campaign.

A generation without leaders sounds like a wonderful thing. We need a generation that is more skeptical of leaders than previous ones, and that takes personal responsibility for making change happen around them instead of expecting a few leaders to transform society. I like the idea of a generation that respects everyone's right to come to their own conclusions and doesn't idolize leaders. It's a different outlook that boomers might mistake for apathy. We have too many Abbie Hoffman's today for any movement to become centered around one person.

[BeFree]

27. Gore won the election in 2000

He won. And Kerry won in 2004.

And you talk like they lost..... geez...

[question everything]

31. Clinton, of course, did not do much during Vietnam

which is what started the vicious attack on him that lasted throughout his presidency. I think that it was Jesse Helms who "warned" Clinton not to visit North Carolina 'cause he could not assure his safety from real macho military men. As for Bush - one has to wonder whether if he actually fought in Vietnam, or made the decision to evade the draft, whether he would be so eager on sending other people to die on foreign soil. So what he did in Vietnam is very relevant to his presidency.

As for lack of leaders.. whether you like it or not, our society runs by governments - at federal, state, county and municipal levels. And whether you like it or not, the people who run these government bodies have to be elected by us. These are our leaders. And leadership abhors vacuum. Thus, if too many do not want to lead, hate leadership - someone will grab the seats, and it will not be someone that you like.

[karynnj]

30. Kerry had only 2 or 3 sentences on Vietnam in his acceptance speech

and that gave equal words to fighting the war when he came home. He did have his swiftboat crew there and their presence likely helped rather than hurt when the people NOT on his boat attacked. The only one who spoke was a man who is now a black minister - his comments were awesome and strongly attested to Kerry's character.

[renie408]

26. 50 is the new 30....

Which works for me cause it means that I am only 23.

No matter how old they are, candidates can't win. If they are over 60, they are antiquated. If they are under 50, they are inexperienced. Age is a non-issue for me.

[ChiciB1]

35. Woo Hoo... Woo, Hoo Hoo! Let's Hear It For The BOOMERS!

I just "did" Christmas decorations this year and my theme was "IMAGINE" and I made a PEACE sign and hung it on my front wall, with the words IMAGINE above it!! Soooooooooo many people gave me "kudos!"

For those of you who don't remember.... WE were a REVOLUTION and we dreamed those dreams!!

We now live this tragic nightmare by a discombobulated BOOMER IDIOT!!