Can a DUer be loyal to two '08 contenders? If so how? Anyone else with this dilema?

[wndycty]

I'm torn between Obama and Clark.  If forced to choose I'm
going with Obama for the following reasons:

1)  He inspires me and makes me hopeful for the future.  Its
not only me, he inspires so many damned people and that is one
of many qualities a President needs.

2)  As an African American I well up with pride when I think
we (all people of color) might finally have a contender (no
disrespect to Jesse or Al).  There are only two potential
challengers that give me that type of pride. In addition to
Obama, the General, his story and how he came to be a
candidate in '04 are also something I have great ownership and
pride in.

3)  The man was my state senator (not only US Senator but
state senator) and a former neighbor (up until last year he
lived a block away now he is 10 blocks away).

4)  It looks like he is going to run.

5)  The inexperience factor is lost on me because too many
other previous presidents and for that matter other contenders
had just as much experience when they ran.  (JFK, Edwards,
Bush, etc.)

Should Obama announce there is no question what I will be
doing with my free time between his announcement and the
primaries and hopefully general election in 2008.  HOWEVER
what do I do if Wes decides to run after I have already thrown
in with Barack?  As I have said in a previous post in 2004 I
chose to give all of my time to Clark after volunteering for
both and when Clark dropped out it was too late for me to
contribute to Obama in the same meaningful way that I did for
the General.  I still worked for Obama but nowhere near the
level I did for the General.

Looking over old photos and talking to old Clark buddies gives
me pause, but I can't pause for something that might not
happen, especially if I have an opportunity to go to work
early for Obama.

Anyone else having this dilema? If not with Clark and Obama,
with other candidates?  I doubt I'm alone.

A related thread I started:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3023464

[YOY]

1. It's called a win-win situation

Enjoy it. They are few and far between. Personally, I like them both too, but am concerned with Obama coddling to the religious extremists in our midst. Other than that political maneuvering, no other complaints.

[wndycty]

3. The religion thing does not bother me for a number reasons

1) African American politicians and others who want support from the Black community need the support of the Black church because of the power Black ministers carry over Black voters.

2) Whether deserved or not the Democratic party has been painted as "anti" religion and its important to show that religion has a place in this party. Even on the DU, some DUers are too quick to attack anyone who is progressive but acknowledges the role of faith in their life.

3) It neutralizes the GOP, whether you like or not, their are many voters who want a candidate of faith and if Democrats write off those voters we stand to lose to the GOP.

Its important for there to be boundries between church and state, but we (Democrats) should not turn our back on faith. I'm not a regular church goer or a bible thumper but I understand the role of faith and its importance to so many people.

[Pithy Cherub]

19. Many pols to this day still

do not understand how powerful the Black church is in our community. As an African American it is the cornerstone of life and the intersection of spirtuality, faith and community. That is why politicians who only show up when its time for a vote get in trouble and their words become less trusted.

One of my favorite pictures on DU is Clark at a Black Church with Gert and Charloie Rangel. Gert is really into it and Clark is plainly enjoying his time there. Obama comes with an ability to connect based on shared values and experience. I am sticking with Clark first and foremost and have Gore and Obama as good backups. Experience matters and judgment matters on decision making the most for me. America needs leadership that focuses on making the right calls based upon their intuition and knowledge levels. Obama has shown falshes of that but consistency of purpose will be tested over the next few years. My first choice is for the guy who I would trust my or other folks children to in a time of war, Clark. Obama has an opportunity to persuade me.

[IndianaGreen]

6. You call Rev. Rick Warren a religious extremist?

I find Hillary pandering to the Right-to-Life people more troubling than Obama's appearance at Warren's Saddleback Church.

[PresidentObama]

2. Sorry about your dilema.

I'm loyal to one candidate. Whom will remain nameless, though it's quite obvious.

But I do have others in the back of mind, back up's if you will. Like Al Gore and John Edwards!

My advice is stay loyal to both, and keep close track of both. And see which candidate appeals more once the race heats up.

[wndycty]

5. No reason to be sorry. . .its a great dilema to have

But its still a dilema. Like in '04 I'm not going to sit on the sidelines, I'm going to throw in early and make a firm comitment of my time so I'm not going to wait and see what happens.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Easy to do! My heart is with Dennis Kucinich, my head is with...

the anti-Hillary candidate.

Having divided loyalties is a daily occurrence in our lives.

[iamjoy]

7. I'm Divided Too

Between Edwards and Obama.

I think politically Obama is more in keeping with my views, but Edwards is just SO appealing and he does have a few more years experience on the national scene. I also think Edwards is more likely to help us in the South and West. I know he didn't in 2004, but that's cause people didn't think of him as running, they thought of Kerry.


SIGH, I really wanted Kerry to win in 2004 (and 2008) and then have an Edwards/Obama ticket in 2012

[longship]

8. No worries.

Especially since a year from now the slate of candidates will be entirely different. Today's presumptive candidate is tomorrow's non-candidate. Today's darkhorse is tomorrow's leader.

Just do like many of us DUers. Let it go until the campaign actually starts at the turn of 2008. It's easy.

Myself, I'm not falling for the media frenzy about an election 22 months from now.

[wndycty]

9. LOL

Well I'm not looking to join the campaign after a winner emerges. I have to potential candidates that I can enthusiastically back, Clark and Obama so I'm not going to wait to see what happens. As the race develops and if I'm chosen candidate(s) are there in the end I will have no problem working overtime for the nominee.

[lisby]

10. This isn't a team sport or a Judeochristian religion.

Good lord, people, be glad we have so many vibrant candidates.

Lisby

[rep the dems]

11. I'm a big fan of those two too.

But I also like Gore, and before he announced he wasn't running, Feingold. I think most of us have some trouble choosing just one.

[Diamonique]

12. What dilema?

I think it's wonderful that we have so many good options; and since the race hasn't even officially started, I don't see a problem.

Right now I have 3 candidates that I really like, and I'll be watching them all (and any others that jump in) closely.

[SheilaT]

13. Election day is

next week? Wait, no, the primaries themselves are more than a year away, and it's nearly two years until the 2008 general election.

Why not sit back, enjoy life for now, and worry about who you're going to support or vote for in about 11 months?

[Gman]

14. I like your reasons for liking Obama

Prime is he was your state senator. But down here in Texas, to me, he's just a 2 year freshman Senator way down the pecking order of those who deserve to be president. I like Obama, but I'd like him to do something as Senator. Words don't go very far with me.

[Clark2008]

15. I would suggest that you're a tad bit impatient.

(And I say that in more of a teasing way, than harsh).

But, if I had this dilemma, and I don't, I would then sit and think about who has the better chance to flip some reddish-purple states. That wouldn't be Obama, sad to say.

Good luck! :hi:

[wndycty]

16. Its not who to choose

Its after one makes the decision.

[Eurobabe]

30. I think you need to read this article from LA Times

What is IT about Obama?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama24dec24,0,1258135.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Here's a nice little excerpt for you regarding the red-purple argument:

Go west to DuPage County, one of the most Republican in the nation, and you'll find a GOP county chairman, state Sen. Kirk W. Dillard, who relishes the opportunity to accompany Obama whenever he comes to town. "My constituency is enamored of him," Dillard said. That Obama registered approval ratings in DuPage above 60% in this fall's campaign season is an obvious reason to get next to him — but Dillard has been on the Obama bandwagon for years.

[Buzz Clik]

17. The best of all worlds: no predisposed opinions at all.

Examine the contenders based on their merits. Don't focus on the warts. Listen, read, watch. Vote in your primary. Support the ultimate nominee.

In the mean time, I'm laughing at all the zealots who feel compelled to dragging down the other candidates: "So wadda ya gonna do if he/she wins? Vote Republican?" :rofl:

[JNelson6563]

18. I like several of the potential candidates

and that's a good thing.

:toast:

[Clark2008]

21. I wish I did.

I only like two enough to work for them. There are others I would vote for, but wouldn't really care to work for and then there are two I simply couldn't vote for.

Ahhh... the hazards of reading too much. It makes me weary of too many people. :)

[kevsand]

20. Wait and see is not always a viable option.

A number of people in this thread have basically said "What's the rush? Wait til 08, and see how it looks then." That's probably fine for most folks here, but there are a handful of us that are being faced with decisions now.

We are activists. We have to be involved. We can't help ourselves. And I know that when wndycty commits to something, it is all consuming.

I already know several people (including myself) who have already been asked by Clark's network to consider becoming statewide volunteer coordinators. This question is being asked directly of us now, and deserves a timely answer.

In a similar vein, Obama is already starting to line up a proto-campaign HQ in Chicago, and wndycty no doubt knows several of those folks personally, as well. This is a very real and immediate dilemma.

So yes, there are others in this same boat. I suspect that every Clarkie in Illinois can relate to this question...

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. When I joined the Draft Clark movement in 2003 I made a pledge

It was my own personal pledge, I'm not saying that anyone else is bound by it. My pledge was that if Wes Clark would step forward and answer our appeal to enter the Presidential race to represent us, that I would give him in return my full support. Of course I don't consider that to be a permanent pledge. Had Clark left politics after withdrawing from the Presidential race in 2004, I would have moved on, but he didn't. Had Wes Clark ever done something to betray my trust and respect in him, or to give me reason to doubt that he would be an outstanding leader for our nation in these times, that would have canceled my pledge also. But Wes Clark never has me down, not once. So I remain there for him. I remain true to my pledge.

[cadmium]

23. I would have no problem with that at all.

In fact, it is still only Dec 2006. Almost two yrs away from 2008 election day. I am particularly comfortable with Kerry. If Sen Kerry does not run I would probably vacillate between Clark and Gore (neither of whom has said they will run) and then if they didn't run I would probably be undecided for a whie. Let em at it. Lets have debates. There is no shame in flip-flopping a little. I think it would be a shame if we only had one or two viable candidates starting off.

[Infinite Hope]

24. Unlike some on DU, supporting one candidate doesn't bar you from being honest about others. n/t

[Eurobabe]

25. Same dilemma WC

I worked for Clark in 04, but I really like Barack, ALOT. When you figure out a solution, let me know, cause I am in the same boat as you.

[wndycty]

26. My dilema is not a voting issue its an activism issue. . .

Like Kevsand said earlier its about my boots on the ground. I'm in a position to really help a candidate and become part of a candidate's organization. I just hope that when it shakes out they are both on the ticket. As long as Obama's a candidate and Clark is not I will continue to give to WesPac and do what I can, but if he runs I don't know what to do.

[Eurobabe]

27. Ditto here too. I worked my ass off for Clark in 03-04

I think my boots are leaning towards Obama for more than a few reasons. I honestly think Clark is not going to run, just my gut.

[wndycty]

28. Its not that I don't want Clark to run. . .

. . .I just don't want to have to decide between the two, I'm sure you can identify.

[Eurobabe]

29. Totally. It's so Sophie's Choice!!??

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. My gut says Clark will run n/t

[Trajan]

32. Shall I eat Pizza or drink beer ?

DAMN life has some tough choices ...

Honestly: you are creating a dilemma out of thin air ...

1) They haven't reached the primary stage, and do you cannot be sure EITHER will be there at decision time.

2) They have much to say between now and then ... why force the issue prematurely ? .... PATIENCE ....

Support the IDEAS ..... Support the PHILOSOPHIES .... Support the causes ...

You have time yet to create dilemmas down the road ....

[talk hard]

33. Better to have two or more that you like

instead of acting like a loon over one.

[AZBlue]

34. You're jumping ahead here - neither has declared their candidacy.

See how events unfold - your decision may be made for you! And even if both declare that they are running, one may come out with statements, actions and/or proposals between now and the next 9-12 months that will swing you definitely one way.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. I'm waiting to hear about Iraq from both Obama and Clark

Because I'll probably end up supporting one of the two unless Al Gore gets in the race. Clark's already outlined a brilliant plan about negotiating with Iran and Syria before we set a timetable for withdrawing. Now I want to hear what he's going to do in two years if he were elected President rather than his hypothetical scenario of what we should do now if only we could boot W out of the White House tomorrow and replace him with somebody competent.

Obama was opposed to Iraq from the start which is impressive. Now I want to see what he has to say about ending the war.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

36. You shouldn't be loyal to a candidate: they're servants, nothing more.

Politics is the one field where no loyalty whatsoever is owed by employers (the electorate) to employees (politicians). Politics is too important to let concerns of personality play a part; all you should think about is how best to advance your agenda, and there's nothing shameful about backing or dropping canditates to achieve that without thoughts for what it will do to them personally.

In any other line of work, if rumours start to circulate about someone you're employing or if they run into personal problems you have a moral duty to be fair to them and support them; in politics you have a moral duty to replace them by someone who can do the job better, whether or not the reasons they can do so are fair.

By all means endorse, or support, one, both or neither of Obama and Clark. But don't feel loyal to either of them. They're means to an end, nothing more, like any other professional politician. What matters is the issues.