Kerry concession

[mattvermont]

Looking for the discussion re: kerry/edwards conceeding ohio following
a communication between matlin and cheney? I do not recall the details of that. Anyone have that old thread?

[ray of light]

1. my memory...such as it is...

According to Woodward in State of Denial, the eve of the vote, Mr. Matlin gave Mrs. Matlin, who is Mr. Cheney's campaign cheif, a phone call saying that Kerry was ready to go camp out in Ohio. A little bit later, the numbers showed there was no way Kerry could win and he was told this by the Ohio Democratic officials. They were told by the Ohio officials that there was no fraud even though there was lots of suppression. So Kerry and Edwards conceded the next morning.

Looking for more specifics for you.

[ray of light]

3. Here's a link with specifics, but I've never heard of it before to know

if it 'leans right or left'.

http://www.octopusoverlords.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=39717&view=next&sid=9b2ae0f8099a5d5b6397d409ba0107a9

Their link:http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=24630

Suppose this is one of the problem of being a Senator. With your own campaign staff atrophied you have to hire outside.

Taylor Marsh wrote:
Here's a story not in the Woodward book. According to one person I talked to today, who spoke on condition of anonymity, Joe Lockhart, in the middle of a heated presidential campaign, started making new business calls out of the Kerry war room giving out confidential campaign information while he was at it. Obviously trying to hedge his bets, he'd call out, give poll data and other info to people, while trying to drum up business for himself. Class act.


And from State of Denial

Bob Woodward - State of Denial wrote:
Matalin is married to James Carville, a Democrat who had been chief political strategist for Bill Clinton in 1992. ... ...

"Look, I know this is hard for you," she told him sympathetically.

Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio--perhaps up to 250,000 of them. "I don't agree with it," Carville said. "I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about."


Bob Woodward - State of Denial wrote:
At 3:36 a.m., a very sensitive communication from the Kerry camp was relayed to Rove and Bartlett at the White House. Mike McCurry, Clinton's former White House press secretary and a last-minute addition to the Kerry campaign, had e-mailed Nicole Devenish, the Bush campaign communications director, an off-the-record congratulations, advising that the Bush team should not try to force a resolution now. Don't pressure Kerry, McCurry said. In the end, he believed Kerry would do the right thing.

[we can do it]

9. I Saw That In State of Denial, Too - I Think You're Close To Correct

I just took it back to the library.....

[mattvermont]

2. ...

I thought there was a threat made to kerry not to contest??

[madfloridian]

4. Are you talking about the sneaky stuff Carville did?

From State of Denial, Bob Woodward:

"After 1 a.m., Card called Cahill.

Cahill said the Kerry campaign felt confident.

Card was caught off guard. ... --Is there going to be a phone call?"

"We won't be calling you," Cahill replied. She seemed to be half asking whether Bush would be calling Kerry to concede.

(snip)

Matalin is married to James Carville, a Democrat who had been chief political strategist for Bill Clinton in 1992. ... ...

"Look, I know this is hard for you," she told him sympathetically.

Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio--perhaps up to 250,000 of them. "I don't agree with it," Carville said. "I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about."

Matalin went to report to Cheney.

What? the vice president asked. ...

"You'd better tell the president," Cheney told her. ...

"They're going to contest it," Matalin said.

"What does that mean?" the president asked. He had his note cards with talking points in hand, ready to go over to the Reagan Building to declare victory.

Matalin said somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican secretary of state in Ohio, who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes.

(snip) skip forward to page 347...

"I'm the president of the United States," Bush said fuming, "waiting on a secretary of state who is a nut." ... ...

Reports came in that the networks wanted to go off the air without calling the race for either candidate.

Rove shouted, "They can't go off the air!"

At 3:36 a.m., a very sensitive communication from the Kerry camp was relayed to Rove and Bartlett at the White House. Mike McCurry, Clinton's former White House press secretary and a last-minute addition to the Kerry campaign, had e-mailed Nicole Devenish, the Bush campaign communications director, an off-the-record congratulations, advising that the Bush team should not try to force a resolution now. Don't pressure Kerry, McCurry said. In the end, he believed Kerry would do the right thing.

Bartlett and others told Bush about the e-mail, summarizing the message as "We'll do the right thing at the right time." They could trust that McCurry would be in a position to know what the Kerry campaign was thinking, Bartlett said, but they had to be careful not to put too much stock in it. At least we know there are people in the Kerry camp giving rational advice, Bartlett said. ... ...

Card said they should declare victory. ... ... ...

STATE OF DENIAL, by Bob Woodward (pgs. 344-347)

Suddenly there were only about half the number of votes to contest, putting Kerry in a bind.

[mattvermont]

5. man, you guys are fast and great?

Although a lurker for a few years, I read many times a day. I am so greatful for all the work you do. Thanks again
Matthew

[madfloridian]

6. Bottom line: Carville and McCurry meddled in the election.

They are both Democratic strategists, but what they did can be construed as treachery.

[ray of light]

7. I think many people forget that within the 04 election, the Democratic

party was still in factions. And the release of this information proves that not everyone was 100% behind their Democratic candidate. I often wondered during 04 why the people wanting us to vote for Kerry were not staying on message very well. Now I don't know if it was incompetence or just self-serving interests, but in my heart of hearts, I feel that they hung Kerry out to dry and didn't support him to their utmost. All you have to do is read the blogs from 04 to see the complaints about the ineffective 'talking heads' to know that they stuck the whole job on Kerry. (Ok...well Dean gave 100% and so did Clark and of course Edwards. But if you read the trail from o4 you can see who was there and who was there 100%.)

I know if Kerry doesn't run, whoever he supports will get 100% of his support.

[mtnsnake]

11. If anyone exagerrates more than you do, would they please stand up right now

and make themselves noticed.

Treachery. Gimme a break, MF.

[karynnj]

15. I haven't heard Carville, McCurry or Lockhart deny these claims

I may be real naive, but I NEVER heard of 3 key high profile Democrats in any other campaign passing information as they are accused of. That all 3 are associated with someone who would benefit if the Democrat lost goes to possible motive. I just wonder if all the shoes have dropped. (There is a huge difference between a nearly flawless primary campaign and the general election campaign. the biggest difference in high level staff was the inclusion of the only Democrats who had won a Presidential race in 2 decades. From this, Kerry may have been wiser to tell them he was completely uninterested. )

Remember that it was Lockhart who nearly got Kerry's campaign mixed up in the unathenticated TANG documents mess - Cleland ordered him to stay away from it because he and Kerry didn't want to be involved in that. This would have been a nightmare for the honest Kerry who was never in a long career involved in dirty tricks.

[enough already]

32. The only "dirty tricks" involved with the TANG documents were done by Rove

Dan Rather was set up.

[madfloridian]

17. Well, look at it this way.

treach·er·y (trch-r)
n. pl. treach·er·ies
1. Willful betrayal of fidelity, confidence, or trust; perfidy.
2. The act or an instance of such betrayal.

Here is what McCurry did.

"At 3:36 a.m., a very sensitive communication from the Kerry camp was relayed to Rove and Bartlett at the White House. Mike McCurry, Clinton's former White House press secretary and a last-minute addition to the Kerry campaign, had e-mailed Nicole Devenish, the Bush campaign communications director, an off-the-record congratulations, advising that the Bush team should not try to force a resolution now. Don't pressure Kerry, McCurry said. In the end, he believed Kerry would do the right thing."

Carville talked to his wife about private campaign business. He did not respect Kerry's trust in him. Suddenly the vote count of the provisionals dropped almost in half, but I have trouble remembering the exact figure.

Why were Kerry advisors consulting with Bush and Cheney advisors, apparently privately? Don't you find that a betrayal of trust?

Or would you rather just sling names at me?

[karynnj]

13. The Lockhart stuff is potentialy worse

Carville and McCurry were speaking to Republicans after the polls closed, Lockhart was giving out secret information during the last several months. You can assume that Ohio didn't need to know that Kerry would fight if there were a reasonable number of votes potentially there - that's common sense. That was just very bad practice and trechery. It also begs the question of whether they were NEVER 100% on Kerry's side. (Carville seemed to never have any real praise for him - and he certainly should have been able to find something he liked that Kerry did. Not good as one of few prominent Democrats on cable.) For his reward, he gets to help on the Clinton campaign apparently.

My biggest shock is that there was NO real outrage when these accusations came out.

[madfloridian]

16. I did not know that about Lockhart.

What happened?

[karynnj]

24. Lockhart took a call from Maples, but in googling to get a link -

some articles are very differnt than others - so I concede that what I wrote is questionable. The White House claimed - on the basis of that call that there was Kerry campaign involvement - but that was quickly dropped. The fact that it went nowhere means that what I read in 2004 was likely Bush lies. (Though if the documents had Rove as the real source, they may have tried to set up Kerry - as they tried to do with Gore and the Bush debate practice tape.)

Cleland refused the information.

[madfloridian]

25. Ok, I remember that.

Thanks.

:hi:

[IndianaGreen]

19. They didn't want Kerry to win, for to do so would have closed the door on Hillary's

Presidential ambitions.

Do not underestimate the amorality of these paid mercenaries!

[wisteria]

26. I have given a lot of thought to this possibilty lately and you may be onto something. n/t

[ray of light]

8. Hey. well we're always happy to provide facts and helpful links.

Welcome!

[calimary]

28. Welcome to DU! Yes, DUers are great! A first-class research operation

we have here. Impossible to calculate how much I've learned and benefitted by hanging out here. Glad you're here, too!

[mtnsnake]

10. If Kerry had been smart enough to have someone like Carville on his team in '04

he wouldn't have been advised to look the other way when the Swift boat assholes kicked the shit out of him with their unchallenged lies.

Carville = fighter. Kerry could've learned something from him, had Carville been on his team instead of those other dimwits that he hired.

There is nothing you can say or do to ever change the fact that James Carville is one of the few Democrats who doesn't stand for any Republican bullshit. He hits them where it hurts.

[jillan]

12. Carville would have to be a good fighter against repugs

He's married to one!:rofl:

[stillcool]

14. there is a lot James Carville can say...

and do that certainly changes that fact.

[TayTay]

18. Carville and Zell Miller, yup, what a bunch of fighters

Carville recommended that Gore put Zell Miller on the ticket in '00. I think this disqualifies Carville from asking anything but, "do you want fries with that?" going forward.

Gore & Miller - Al Gore and Zell Miller - Brief Article
Washington Monthly, June, 2000 by James Carville, Paul Begala

ZELL MILLER

By choosing former Georgia governor Zell Miller as his running mate, Al Gore could add intellectual brainpower, rhetorical firepower, and lots of plain old populist piss-and-vinegar to this staid election.

Miller is widely and rightly acclaimed as the best governor in Georgia history. He created the HOPE scholarship--dedicating the proceeds from the Georgia lottery to college scholarships. Rather than a something-for-nothing giveaway, Miller insisted only students with a B average could get the college aid. That single accomplishment has transformed his state.

Ninety-seven percent of incoming freshmen at the University of Georgia and Georgia Tech are HOPE scholars, and the promise of a free education has kept the best and the brightest from fleeing to the Ivy League. Minority enrollment jumped from 18 percent of the total student population to 21 percent. And across the state, educators are reporting that parents are more engaged than ever in their children's education, because Junior's B average means they save thousands of dollars in college costs.

And for students who cannot keep a B average or decide not to go to college, HOPE will pay for community college or technical school. The goal is to assure every young person a shot at the American Dream.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_6_32/ai_63165531

[madfloridian]

20. Carville slings that bullshit against his own party.

Sorry, but that is how it is. You can pretend all you want, but that is exactly what he does. Would you like me to find all the outrageous Crossfire transcripts where he daily insulted Dean, Edwards, and even Gore?

[LittleClarkie]

23. Nothing like having someone who reports back to Republicans on your team, yessiree bob.

Good thing Kerry wasn't smart enough. :sarcasm:

[wisteria]

27. Kerry was smart enough to not have him on is team for good reason.n/t

[zulchzulu]

30. Carville = Lying traitor n/t

[madfloridian]

21. Let's see, the provisional ballot possibilities for recount went from 250,000 to what?

I can never remember that figure.

I just saw Hacking Democracy. It hit me again that Kerry said there were not enough provisionals to let them win.

What was that number?

[madfloridian]

22. Why would Matalin tell them to get in touch with Blackwell?

"Matalin said somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell."

Wonder why? Well, yeh, I am being sarcastic. But how can anyone say that is not sneaky and underhanded.

[elperromagico]

31. Bush on Blackwell: "a secretary of state who is a nut"

Well, whaddya know? Even a stopped clock is right twice.

[zulchzulu]

29. State Of Denial - Bob Woodward (pg343-345)

Carville told the Bush/Cheney team the news on election night (by telling his wife) that Kerry was going to protest the Ohio vote due to 250,000 provisional ballots that would be counted and investigations continuing. The Bush/Cheney people then contacted Blackwell in Ohio who changed the estimated numbers (and lied) to 180,000...which then would have made the protest meaningless.

Consider Carville an enemy of the Democratic Party. He is nothing but a traitor.

[wisteria]

33. Carville has limited loyalty and it isn't to all Dem's, just a select couple of them and

to himself.