Is Hillary still as polarizing as she used to be? I don't think so. Not by a long shot.

[mtnsnake]

If she's accomplished anything, I think she's gone a long ways to putting that old theory to rest. Maybe she USED to be very polarizing a long time ago, but I don't think she's nearly as polarizing nowadays as what her naysayers like to claim she is, like Chris Matthews for example. To her credit, she's worked extremely hard in the Senate to shed that label.

At this juncture in time, I don't think Hillary is much more polarizing than the next candidate is, if at all.

What do you think? Feelings at DU aside, do you honestly think Hillary is as polarizing out there in mainstream America as she used to be?

(Disclaimer: She's not my first choice, btw, although I do like her for the most part.)

[MnFats]

1. I just have this feeling that she will galvanize the right...

...as never before. That said, I think she'd be a fine president (though not my first choice, either)but her candidacy will send the right into paroxisms. Free Republic would start handing out mini-13s and C4.

[rhombus]

30. The right is down. keep them there. Hillary is going to wake them up

We don't need to galvanize a whole swathe of depressed rightwingers in '08. Hillary's candidacy does just that.

[Hav]

2. .

Actually yeah, I think she still does polarize the country very much ;). I think that's what poll numbers showing a high percentage of people who would never vote for her indicate.

[Tellurian]

40. I hate to Burst anyone's Bubble...but Hillary's poll numbers

are extremely high!

As far as galvanizing the Right... I hope she does.

Less work when all fall down together!


http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2FPolitics%2Fprint%3Fid%3D2810341

[skipos]

45. Her numbers in general election polls are pretty bad from what I have seen. nt

[Tellurian]

54. How do you explain her landslide win in NY? nm

[Clark2008]

56. Blue state with a Republican challenger no one had really

ever heard of?

[Tellurian]

57. Nevertheless...her election results were astounding

meaning...even Republicans were voting for her.

[Eurobabe]

58. Yeah, all those red zones in Corning, etc.

Somebody likes Hillary. Although she is not my choice, I wish people would stop tearing her a new asshole.

[skipos]

59. Mitt Romney won MA as governor

but wouldn't win it as a presidential candidate, imo. People vote differently in presidential elections. Richardson had a landslide victory in NM, but I bet it would be a lot closer if 2008 came down to McCain vs. Richardson.

NY is a VERY blue state, Kerry won it by 17%.

Plus, the Republican candidate in NY was DOA.

[Hav]

53. .

The link was about the Primaries and democratic leaning voters were asked for Dem candidates.
What I meant were these polls where around 40 or 50% said that they would never vote for Hillary. And this is where no one scored higher than her compared to the other candidates.
So my point is that there are potential Dem candidates like Edwards or Clark who aren't as polarizing (yet?) and I think that was the point of this thread. I believe though that Kerry and Gore had similar negative numbers and I never understood what they had done to deserve all this hatred directed towards them.
So I suppose that once we have the Dem nominee, the character assassination starts for whoever the Dems choose.

I liked the stories in this thread how she managed to win over Repubs in NY. But I also kind of agree with those who say that we don't need a candidate who unites the Right again.
She might have had a positive impact for Repubs through her work for NY but I doubt we would see the same in a general election.

[AtomicKitten]

3. "polarizing" has become more of a nickname in her case

She, in fact, has worked quite successfully to woo over former adversaries. She has kept her head down in the Senate and worked hard. Once you move beyond the the hysterical epithets lobbed at her, it is pretty clear she has dispelled much of that myth. The GOP Wrecking Machine will try to annihilate any candidate we put up, and they and the MSM have pretty much shot their wad on HRC. I do believe she would be a viable contender in the general election, however, she will have to fight tooth and nail to win the primary.

[ripple]

4. Unfortunately, I have to disagree

I have several friends who would vote for almost any democrat except Hillary. I don't quite understand why they dislike her so much and with at least one friend, I suspect a touch of misogyny. Another friend is still pissed about HIPAA and her unsuccessful efforts at reforming health care during Clinton's presidency. Another simply feels that she is too moderate (a feeling I tend to share, but without the rabid hatred he feels). It's possible that my friends are an exception to the rule, but I tend to suspect otherwise.

She has made inroads in the Senate and in that venue, I don't believe she is nearly as polarizing as she was when she was first elected. Of course, that might all change now that she's running. Plus, it really doesn't make much difference how well-liked she is in the Senate, if much of the general public dislikes her.

I have a lot of respect for Senator Clinton, largely because she's proven herself to be so resilient politically. Although there are other candidates I would prefer to see nominated, I would certainly support her in the event she does receive the nomination.

[AZBlue]

43. It's funny because I look at the health care issue as a positive for her.

I don't disagree with you - there are many I fear that feel the way your friend does. I guess I just figured at the time that it wouldn't really happen, considering the political climate at the time combined with the fact that the general public didn't really "get it" yet. However, I was encouraged by the fact that she took it on and brought the health care situation to light on a national level. And, as a candidate, it's a plus for her as far as I'm concerned - it's obviously an issue she feels is important and one that will hopefully be a priority to her.

[pstans]

5. Depends on what you mean by polarizing

Her move to the so-called center has polarized me.

There is also that thing about first impressions. People know Hillary and they either like her or don't. It will take a lot to change their minds.

[flamin lib]

6. People who hate Hillary won't vote for any Democrat, so who

the hell cares? She gets blasted for being "ambitious" but what's wrong with that? She takes heat for being the consummate politician. So what? If you needed surgery you'd hire the consummate surgeon, right?

Not my first choice but if she is nominated and wins we get a two-fer. Wouldn't mind have the next President having Bill as a confidant and advisor.

[Ninja Jordan]

8. And destroy the Democratic Party in the process.

the Clintons are old news. We need better leaders than Hillary Clinton.

[Tellurian]

41. Not a chance..

The Dem Party is stronger than it's ever been since 91'.

Lessons learned at the frivolity of losing power to the Republicans.

[Ninja Jordan]

42. And what a way to ruin all that progress with a divisive figure like Hillary Clinton.

[Tellurian]

48. Some people are only happy when they are unhappy..

you preach dogmatic perfection, when all you offer is unsubstantiated caustic replications.
I'm neither impressed nor convinced, try again.

[Ninja Jordan]

49. You've seen the effect divisive presidents have on their party (Bush).

We need a leader who transcends partisanship.

[Tellurian]

52. Partisanship is not an issue..

Repairing the damage done by the Bush Administration is..
You know the list. The Clintons can hit the ground running.
Our country needs HELP immediately. Partisansip, is he least of our problems.

[Cascadian]

37. That's not true.

If Obama or Edwards gets the nomination, I will consider voting for them. I think for the Democrats for me it is "Anybody but Hillary" right now. If Hillary gets the nomination, I CANNOT nor WILL NOT vote for her. I would vote third party then.

Anybody doesn't like that then TOUGH DARTS!


John

[rockymountaindem]

7. Yes

Where I come from, her name is anathema.

[Evergreen Emerald]

9. I think the vilification by the republicans for eight straight years worked

People don't like her and can't say why. She is labeled "polarizing." And why? Because the republican propaganda machine worked. She was demonized by the republicans through the press. She is an intelligent, thoughtful, dedicated person who would do a great job as president.

Just look at what the press is doing to the democrats currently. The propaganda machine is in full force. By the end of this, no democrat will be left standing. And Romney will look like a God.

[napi21]

10. No I don't think she is, and it bothers me that so many people on DU

seem to hate her! She's a very smart woman, and a good politician. You may not like the idea that she isn't the first out there screaming impeachment, or totally against this Iraq war, or whatever other problems on your long list of dislikes. Nobody wins election by being an extremist. Look at Kucinich(sp). He's a great guy with positions we love on many issues, but Dennis will never win a National nomination, and even HE admits that. How about Finegold? He thought about running in 08, did a short exploratory, and said nope, not going to do it.

When I think about all the different candidates and their capabilities to be a good President, there are several, in my mind, who qualify. Obama, Clinton, Biden all fit the bill. Ialso have to say, white MEN have sure not donea great job over the years. Maybe it's time to give a woman the opportunity to improve things!

[Missy M]

11. I agree with you.......

I don't think she is any more polarizing than any other candidate. She overcame everything said against her when she ran in New York State. She ran a very successful campaign against all odds and won over some of the very people who were naysayers.

[GenDem]

21. She won over the people in NY - BIG time.

If anyone thinks that NY doesn't have republican strongholds, come visit my county and my neighboring counties. All of the rural counties are as red as Utah, believe me. She won all but three counties in the entire state this past election. How did she do that? By being an excellent senator that worked hard for ALL the people in the state. One example; when there was flooding around the Binghamton area a republican town supervisor called her office when she was getting nowhere with all of the federal aid bureaucracy. Hillary was on the scene the next day to coordinate the relief effort. She rolls up her sleeves and works. That's what I admire most about her.

[mtnsnake]

26. I've often tried to convey those very sentiments as to her winning over "red" NY areas

in other threads, only you said it much better here than I could have.

In my area in remote northern NY, I've never seen a politician win over more voters than Hillary did. Even lots of Republicans in my area who didn't like Bill had Hillary signs up in their front yards.

She is one of the few politicians who has actually backed up the promises she made to the North Country during her first campaign, and the people remembered that and showed their appreciation the second time around.

[GenDem]

33. An interesting comment from a rethug in my town.

I live in a small town of around 7000. I take an active roll in the elections and enjoy banter with my fellow local republicans (like I said there are a lot of them). This came from our chief of police, who I have known and liked forever--and we have come to love a good political argument. We were talking about Hillary...and he said that he was going to vote for her. I was very surprised. He then explained to me that it was mostly because his teenage daughter has made him look at Hillary differently. And it isn't because his daughter is any Hillary fan. It's because he wants her to grow to be a strong, independent woman that has every opportunity to be and do what ever she sets her mind to when she grows up. I was very moved by this. An example of a Hillary convert.

[Pirate Smile]

12. My Republican husband walked by the TV this morning (Hillary news

was on) and said Hillary winning the Democratic nomination is the best thing that can happen to the Republicans.

I know, consider the source, but it put a bit of a damper on my mood.

I think the Republicans are divided and depressed. I do think Hillary probably unites them more then any of the other candidates but they will demonize whoever we run.

Oh, well,

This is going to be quite a ride. I don't necessarily have a dog in this race yet. It depends on who all runs.

This is pretty exiting though.

[Ninja Jordan]

13. Sorry your husband is republican

[mtnsnake]

16. That is uncalled for. nt

[Pirate Smile]

20. Well, I'm sorry he is a Republican too.

:)

[crispini]

28. Hahahaha.

At least you have a good sense of humor about it.

[AZBlue]

44. I feel your pain. My dad's a Republican.

My mom and I had to whisper on the phone about Hillary today before he came back in the room.

[snowbear]

22. I don't think it's uncalled for at all mtnsnake ... not one iota.

My condolences to anyone who could possibly be married to a member of the rethug party.

Sorry Mtn.. but also I feel for our DU'ers in that situation.

Look at the leaders of their spouses party and maybe you'll feel the sorrow for them too!!!!

[mtnsnake]

25. Ok, ok, ladies. I was wrong. It WAS called for. My apology to Ninja Jordan

Considering I'm married to a lifelong die hard Democrat, I guess I don't realize what some people have to go through being married to someone of the opposite political persuasion! My bad!!

[Ninja Jordan]

31. Back off. I didn't mean it as a slight.

[Pirate Smile]

19. Thanks. My parents also generally cancelled out each others votes.

I think it is rather common.

I married my high school sweetheart after college (before law school). Young and stupid. :)

I've always been interested in politics but now it is more of an obsession.

We actually avoid talking about it much. That is why I come here :) Bush brings out a kind of volcanic anger within me. :) Shocking, I know.

I've had moments where I wondered if our marriage could survive this disastrous administration. I do think it has broken up many marriages, friendships and families.

I think we will make it.

edit to add - He was raised in a family where they are all Republicans. I think he was brainwashed. I was used to having different views thrown around.

[Pirate Smile]

35. "exiting" - no, I meant "exciting".

Duh!

[nebula]

14. Hell yes she is polrazing, even within the Democratic party

she is still an extremely polarizing figure.


People hate Clinton for the most part not because she's a woman, but because she has all the charm and personality of a piece of wet cardboard. (Being a big Iraq war cheerleader doesn't help her either.)

[AJH032]

32. Big Iraq cheerleader?

she is actually one of the most vocal critics of the war and its execution. Just because she hasn't come out and said that her vote was a mistake doesn't make her a cheerleader.

[Cascadian]

38. She voted for the damn thing.

It also appears that Hillary does not want the troops out either. She's lost me in this regard.


John

[justiceischeap]

51. Let's see...

How many Dem Senators voted for the war?

I can understand not liking her for her stance on policy, I can understand not liking her for taking corporate money (of course how many politicians who are successful don't) but not liking her because she voted for something almost everyone in the Senate voted for is just laziness IMO.

I'm as left as you can get and was outraged that all elected officials voted to give B*** the power to go to war without considering the consequences but what is done is done and we need someone (a bunch of them) who are willing to use something that B*** doesn't have the capacity to—their brain. I want the war to be over yesterday but it ain't gonna happen that way, in that regard I'm a realist.

I like HRC and at any other time would be excited to see her in the race however, I think the country isn't ready for a female president anymore the country is ready for a black president. That, unfortunately, is the most negative aspect of her running not how DU'ers feel about her, 'cause middle America likes a moderate Dem.

[KingFlorez]

15. She isn't as polarizing

I think she has as good a chance as anyone else running, the polarizing image has worn off for the most part.

[Kablooie]

17. Doesn't it depend on the time of the month?

-- Oh please. Don't hit me. Please.

Sorry. I really shouldn't have said that.

I know. I'm a terrible person.

[applegrove]

18. I hope she runs a good campaign. Cause her image has improved

a great deal. Especially the part where she just loves the big dog..and life together is one long fascinating conversation for them. I think her book humanized her quite a bit from the wall the GOP had nailed her during the Clinton Presidency.

[windbreeze]

23. Yes, unfortunately, I think she is...n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

24. She polarizes me, but that's just me. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

27. Yes she is. The right wing hate her almost as much as McCain.

And the base of the party will vote Green.

Albeit she's rich in campaign funds, IMO, she won't receive the nomination by a long shot, but the big media conglomerates still are trying to spin her as viable. :shrug:

You can't get blood from a turnip, no matter how much money you have and wish it were so. It ain't gonna happen. :-)

[rodeodance]

29. just repeating the mantra--makes her seem polarizing

[AJH032]

34. Hillary won red areas of New York

if she were so polarizing (ie, hated by Republicans), how would she have done that?

[GenDem]

36. She did it by working hard for the people of NY.

The people in this state see her and hear from her. She is very visible and connects with peoples plights. In my county we have well over a majority registered republicans. Hillary won by 52%. Not as big of victory as most NY counties, but to win by that margin we had quite a few republicans vote for her.

[Cameron27]

39. Good to know that.

I suspected as much, but it's good to hear from the source.

Not my candidate, but I just don't see her as any worse than Kerry, or Edwards, and anyone else who voted for the IWR. The one thing that I do hold against her, apart from them, is her cave-in on universal health care. I'd like to know what her position is now.

[skipos]

47. The same way Mitt Romney won MA as Governor

but wouldn't win it in a presidential race. People vote differently in presidential races. Republicans don't like Hillary, but they are really hoping she is our nominee. She will be very easy to beat.

[kath]

46. She's still very polarizing. I came across this article in Mother Jones earlier

this week (and started a thread about it):
http://www.motherjones.com/
Harpy, Hero, Heretic: Hillary
With Hillary Clinton's announcement that she is running for president, Mother Jones offers its most recent cover story. The senator from New York stokes our deepest fears and darkest hatreds: What does America's obsession with Hillary say about our country? Jack Hitt, Mother Jones

Almost every American has an opinion about Hillary. Consider her poll numbers. Hillary Clinton has favorables in the high 40s right now and unfavorables running about even. Her "no opinion" numbers are in the low single digits, approaching zero. Most politicians start with a huge swath of "no opinion" voters whom they can then try to convert. If Hillary runs, she will need to invent a whole new form of campaign strategy: She will need to flip voters who pretty much hate her.

Hillary-hating is such a national pastime, for both Democrats and Republicans, that it should be its own verb: "Hillarating." Typically, even her supporters make the case for her only after plowing through a lot of caveats, lessons learned, and after muttered contempt for some aspect of her person. Hillarating is not like normal political hating—opposing someone's ideology, for example. Loathing Hillary happens on multiple levels, ranging from her marital choices and fashion sense to her ambivalence on torture or support for a flag-burning amendment. And liberal feminists are as comfortable Hillarating as anyone else, perhaps more so.

[Nye Bevan]

50. Well, she recently got 67% of New Yorkers to agree that she should be their Senator

Based upon that, she is probably about the least polarizing person in the Senate.

[Clark2008]

55. Depends on where you live.

She's extremely polarizing in my reddish/purple state and I suspect she is in many states of this nature (states that either could flip easily and/or states with Democratic-led state governments, but who have Republican leaders on the national level).