bartcop asks: Is Al Franken too gullible to be a senator?

[wyldwolf]

In his Playboy interview, Franken said he believed Colin Powell when he told the UN
that Saddam had WMDs and the aluminum tubes and mobile rocket launchers - whatever.
And he didn't have the added benefit of the CIA briefing the senate.

So, today's question is:

Is Al Franken too gullible to be a senator?

[NMDemDist2]

1. Al's "gee gosh" persona hides a razor sharp mind

don't let it fool you for a second

[StClone]

12. That's one of Al's gifts

Disarming, charming with a very adept mind. He's fooled people here though not purposely. He's going to be an outstanding Senator with a twinkling sense of humor.

[Epiphany4z]

17. I love AL

he was not the best radio host ..loved his guests though.....

I have read his books and heard him speak he is wicked smart and does the research...he strives to have the facts state I think he will be a great asset.

[youngdem]

25. Precisely.

He is WILDLY intelligent and his golly-gee disposition is a coping mechanism so he doesn't come across as elitist or arrogant or whatever stupid people call smart people they don't understand and thereby dislike/fear.

He may have been mislead by Powell. So what? MANY good people were.

I don't feel like you have to have predicted the lies and outcome of the Iraq war to be a politician today. Now, if you voted for it and have since become a contortionist since instead of owning a fuck up and apologizing for it, that's another thing.

Al is gonna be a great Senator. He is BRIGHT, extremely caring, cunning, politically astute, understated, aware of how things get done on Capitol Hill, connected, understands his state's issues, and he is right on so many issues. And attacking him will NOT work.

No one is perfect, but the people of Minnesota are VERY lucky to have someone like Al running.

[NYCGirl]

2. Only if Senators Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, etc. are also too gullible. NT

[wyldwolf]

5. therein lies his point

As Franken gets a groundswell of support, the netroots condemn Clinton (but not Kerry and Edwards 'cause they apologized.)

[NYCGirl]

8. Franken's own mea culpa on that issue was very touching. NT

[MannyGoldstein]

27. At Least He Mea Culpaed!

Some still haven't!

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Naw, i wouldn't vote for Al for President, but he will make a fine Senator, just

as Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, and Obabma have been.

Also, I believe Al has expressed that his verbal support for the Iraq invasion was a mistake, just as Kerry and Edwards have done.

Your horse Clinton has a lot more problems than just her IWR vote and failure to admit an error, by the way. A lot of it has to do with the fact that she's so polorizing.

[9119495]

3. Well obviously Norm Coleman believed it too

so if the race in MN ends up being between Franken and Coleman, the question is irrelevant. People in MN will simply have to chose between a gullible, smart, progressive candidate in Franken ,and a gullible shit-bag, oppotunist in Coleman.

[snappyturtle]

4. I just moved to TX from MN.....

he's gullible and I'm afraid Minnesotans could elect him. I didn't like him on Air America! He never took any stand strongly enough imho. After all, stop and remember the UN presentation by Powell. Did you believe Powell? I thought his presentation looked like a fourth grade report with poor visuals....it was hokey....that was my opinion sans the CIA briefing to the Senate.

Edit:addition--After Wellstone was Wellstoned, MN went through a few terrible days trying to get it's act together. Mondale was at least noble enough to take a stand and should have been able (I think he did) over-take Coleman but look who won the election....I couldn't believe it. At the time I thought if Mickey Mouse had been put up as a candidate he would have won if for nothing else,out of respect for Wellstone. I do not agree that Franken has a razor sharp mind. Sure would like to have an example of that sharpness.

[AndreaCG]

10. Al's admitted he was mistaken

As have dozens of commentators, journalists and politicians. Personally his show was my favorite because of the great guests he booked. Ill take that format over call in shows any day. As for taking stands, he sometimes played devil's advocate in a mild mannered way to set up the commentator's strong reply, and to set up the situation at hand for listeners who might not be briefed on the topic they were talking about.

Do you REALLY think Al will be inferior to Coleman?

[snappyturtle]

22. No I don't think he'll be inferior; but then that would be difficult to

do. I like a devil's advocate point of view, but in light of the mentality of the general population who pay little attention to the news in the first place, it's over their heads. I think positions need to be very clear.....Al is a comic and he doesn't come across TO ME as being all that serious. I guess I'm not an Al Franken fan. Please don't be offended.

[PLF]

6. Can't be too damn sharp if he believed Colin Powell.

[bluehighways911]

7. Bartcop

Bartcop couldn't shine Franken's shoes. ( I cleaned that up)

[wyldwolf]

9. well, neither could most of us. Perhaps you could, though.

[AndreaCG]

11. I don't blame Bartcop for posing the question

He asked it, didn't take a side personally. Maybe in responding to the readers he will say what the thinks but as I remember, Bartcop has always been supportive of Franken running against Coleman.

[wyldwolf]

14. knowing Bartcop...

...it was a barb against those dwelling on the IWR votes as a litmus test - specifically those who oppose Clinton (he is a big Hillary supporter.) If Franken believed Iraq had WMDs based only on the information he had, why fault the Democrats for believing it based on CIA briefings?

[bluehighways911]

20. I Trust Bartcop as much as Bush

If you think Bartcop did something special, by asking a question, I can't even answer that.

OK. Great Question. And I listen to Franken, and read Bartcop. I trust Franken to answer the question over and over. And guess what. Bartcop will still ask the same question, over and over.

Bartcop is a dope. And I will tell you why. He worships Hillary, but still three years later can't stop his Kerry hate diatribe.

Uptil she announced. Hillary was giving Bush his daily hummer. While Kerry was out attacking everything Bush did. He proposed a resolution to bring the troops home now, and that was before the mid-term election.

Every time Bush does something moronic, or evil, Bartcop thanks thanks Kerry and shows him dancing in his pink tu-tu. Funny the first trillion times he did it.

Still I will show Bartdrunk just what Kerry said in response which was blistering. But still he will ignore it.

Al Franken is a voice the Democrats need. Bartcop is a drunk that needs to curl up with his Hillary blow-up doll and pass out.

[ieoeja]

24. Used to be a big bartcop fan.

Then I spent a week in 2004 analyzing his web page. One day that week DURING THE ELECTION he devoted pretty much the same amount of space blasting Democrats and Republicans. Every other day that week he devoted considerably more time attacking Democrats.

With friends like that....

[brentblack]

13. In Al's defense

Colin Powell still some integrity and respect at that time.

Of course, Powell lost both as soon as he spoke it.....


/Someone at a Roast once said this, "My father always said -'son, there are some things that are just not funny. One of those things is Al Franken.'"
/Like Al...do not think he is funny.

[geiger]

15. I dont know of anyone besides maybe Senator Sherrod Brown in Ohio

who does his research more.

Al Franken is so smart maybe if you think he's gullible, you're not catching the subtleties of his arguments.

I dont remember this statement in particular, but I bet Al Franken wanted to believe that Powell had some degree of integrity and that he wanted to believe him. I wanted to believe him myself, even though all along I thought he was being used as a pawn.

To the person who "didn't like him on Air America," I miss him everyday and hope Tom Oliphant and he put their conversations together in a book. Those Thursdays were simply the most intelligent discussions being held in America. Randi Rhodes, however, saw it fit to take a pot shot at Franken on his actual last day, inferring that he talks too slow. I'll take Franken sense any day over fast and loose talk. And why is it that people are already looking for fault in Franken. Jeez, his campaign's not even started.

[wyldwolf]

19. would you like Bartcop's e-mail address?

maybe if you think he's gullible, you're not catching the subtleties of his arguments.

I think you're talking to the wrong person.

[geiger]

21. reading too fast....apologies to you, but not some others posting here

[BOSSHOG]

16. If you were a resident of MN and the race was between

Franken and Coleman who would you vote for? I'm not a resident but I would have to ponder the question for a about a nanosecond to make my choice. Gullible? Not gullible? A better Senator for the people of Minnesota than an opportunist, spineless, whiny prick like Coleman? The decision should not be a difficult one.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

26. In Franken's defense

In "Lies..." he reluctantly (he waited until just about the last chapter of the book) admitted to having supported the Iraq War(#2) from the beginning and the audiobook had a clip of him emceeing a Clear Channel pro-war rally around the time of or before the invasion but he admitted (in the book) that he felt embarrassed about his actions and in "The Truth" he demolishes the arguments made by Bush et. al regarding the need to go to war with Iraq in 2003, discusses the Downing Street Memos, and describes (in great detail) the INTENTIONAL lack of planning (not)done for post-war Iraq. Unfortunately, there were far too many people who bought the (mis-)administration's LIES (smart and educated people too) about Iraq at the time, so much so that it was difficult for those of us who were anti-war to get a fair hearing. IMHO Al is a bigger man for being able to admit that he was duped and was able to even later admit that felt ashamed for allowing himself to be a mouthpiece in support of the war. I've always felt that his books have been exceptionally well-written, well-researched witty, and fun to read/listen to. I can't comment on his late radio program (AAR) becuase I have never heard any of his shows (other than clips used in his audiobook and some of the funny bits released on the Party Show album) but I can't imagine that anybody would reasonably think of him actually being "gullible" just because he, along with a surprisingly large amount of people, made the mistake of believing whatever Bush et. al said about Iraq in the lead-up to the Iraq War. This was, after all, NOT too long after 9/11 and people of all stripes were still (at least somewhat) trying to rally around Bush (and Powell), who had SOME credibility left at that point. At the very least, one should be able to say that Franken isn't more "gullible" than any other Congressman or Senator who voted for IWR and actively supported the 2003 invasion (some of whom STILL apparently support it now!)

[MannyGoldstein]

18. Kennedy Didn't Believe It

In the Senate alone:

Akaka (D-HI) didn't believe it.
Bingaman (D-NM) didn't believe it.
Boxer (D-CA) didn't believe it.
Byrd (D-WV) didn't believe it.
Chafee (R-RI) didn't believe it.
Conrad (D-ND) didn't believe it.
Corzine (D-NJ) didn't believe it.
Dayton (D-MN) didn't believe it.
Durbin (D-IL) didn't believe it.
Feingold (D-WI) didn't believe it.
Graham (D-FL) didn't believe it.
Inouye (D-HI) didn't believe it.
Jeffords (I-VT) didn't believe it.
Kennedy (D-MA) didn't believe it.
Leahy (D-VT) didn't believe it.
Levin (D-MI) didn't believe it.
Mikulski (D-MD) didn't believe it.
Murray (D-WA) didn't believe it.
Reed (D-RI) didn't believe it.
Sarbanes (D-MD) didn't believe it.
Stabenow (D-MI) didn't believe it.
Wellstone (D-MN) didn't believe it.
Wyden (D-OR) didn't believe it.

Clearly, anyone in the Congress who was deluded enough to buy into Bush's arguments (or simply a craven triangulator) is probably not fit to represent The People. However, most Dems in both houses didn't believe it.

Of course it wasn't Franken's job to make a decision that plotted America's future - so I'd give him a pass.

[gratuitous]

23. Aye, there's the rub

It wasn't Franken's job at the time of the vote to know whether Powell was telling the truth or not. And I gotta say that in a trust contest between Al Franken and Bartcop (to whom I have in the past sent quite a bit of money to support his website, who I once respected quite highly, and still respect some), I'd have to go with Mr. Franken.

[Sammy Pepys]

28. wow....bartcop...

That's name I've not heard/read in a long time....

[tularetom]

29. Hey Bartcop - is Hillary too gullible to be president?

I sure as shit knew they were lying. 100,000 Du'ers knew it. A lot of others knew it. 20 or so senators knew it. How come Hillary didn't.

I've pretty much given up on Bartcop because of his tortured logic on Hillary.

[Nimrod2005]

30. Answer: NO. Al was not anywhere close to inside stuff within DOD or politics...etc.

He saw it on TV like we did.

[WoodrowFan]

32. not everybody who believed Powell supported the war.

A lot of us here believed that Iraq still had some WMD programs and some WMD stockpiled (remember the "we have the receipts" jokes here on the DU?) but STILL opposed the war because we thought that the UN inspectors would find them given time and support. There's a huge difference between thinking Saddam was still hiding some mustard gas and Condi's "musroom cloud" scare tactics. I suspect that a lot of the anti-war votes in the Congress came from those who felt the same way: give the UN inspectors time and they'll fine what ever may be there and that the Bushies were vastly exagerating the threat...

[Tellurian]

33. Yes, I know what to believe about Franken's

strengths and weaknesses. His psychological profile is indelibly embedded in my mind.