Hillary is Running a Flawless Campaign. Who Should She Choose for Her VP?

[David Zephyr]

Like it or not, Senator Hillary Clinton has run a flawless campaign thus far in her quest for the Presidency of the United States. And while her and her husband have continually driven me crazy with their corporate coziness, their shameless pandering to conservative power brokers both here in the U.S. and abroad, she is on track to clinch the nomination of the Democratic Party sooner than later.

I watched up close and personal as Bill Clinton in 1992, with his corporate connections, destroyed Tom Harkin, Jerry Brown, Paul Tsongas during that primary and convention process. His nod from the New York Times and the DLC to the teachers union and the political establishment proved far too much for the other candidates to overcome. Even Governor Mario Cuomo saw the cards as they were stacked and decided not to run. Too much money and too many connections. I know because I was part of Jerry Brown's campaign and was a delegate to that convention at the Garden in Manhattan.

The cushy government jobs that are the spoils that go to the victor have already been promised by the Clintons should they win. You can never underestimate what thos promises mean in terms of motivation of support that they will receive in quid pro quo for those promises. Even poor Abraham Lincoln himself was stunned clear back in 1861 as he entered Washington, D.C. to learn that the issue of slavery and preserving the union was all background noise in comparison to the clamor for employment and appointments by those that lived there.

Has Wesley Clark already seen the writing on the wall? Is Wesley now just a stalking horse who will let down his supporters and throw his endorsement to Hillary? I'm afraid that this is the case. What have the Clintons promised him? Did he accept?

As a life time activist as opposed to a politician, the Clintons represent perhaps the worst in the Party that I love...and yet, perhaps represent the best we can ever expect to get from our Party.

Yes, she voted for the War in Iraq. Yes, she continued to support that war until it began to look like a bad gamble. Yes, she voted for the Patriot Act robbing us of many of our cherished civil liberties. Yes, she will probably govern as her husband did by pitting the Democrats in Congress against the Republicans to get her way through "triangulation" as her husband's operative, Dick Morris called it. Yes, to all of that.

But she's going to be the nominee of the Democratic Party. It's over.

Knowing that, who would you like to see Senator Clinton pick to be her VP, not that your opinion will make much of a difference?

[Learn2Swim]

1. Bwahahahah!!!

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

[RufusTFirefly]

8. Far out. Far f#@kin' out.

Loved the cinematic allusion, Dude

[Learn2Swim]

83. Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules.

[RufusTFirefly]

87. Greatest. Movie. Ever.

And I'm a film snob. Really.

"Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism,
Dude, at least it's an ethos."

[Learn2Swim]

88. Agreed.

:yourock:

[David Dunham]

2. Jim Webb

[David Zephyr]

4. Virginia's electoral votes would be a windfall and could carry the day.

Interesting and pragmatic observation. I take note of it. It has merit.

[fujiyama]

90. LOL

Jim Webb barely won when he ran. And he was a very good candidate.

He won't be enough to bring VA to the Dem column.

[rndmprsn]

3. sorry not even going to vote on this one...seems like you have it all figured out anyhow. eom

[Redneck Socialist]

5. Hoooo, Haaaa, woooo

<slaps thigh, wipes away tears> Stop it man, your killin' me here. :rofl:

Flawless... "Wooo!" :crazy:

[AlinPA]

6. Too early to tell. It is a long road to being the nominee- for everyone.

[Captain_Nemo]

7. If you look

At her experience she is the only one to solve the problems.
Experience is what we need now.

[AndyTiedye]

12. If She Is Our Nominee, The Repiglicans Win. It's That Simple

Why do you think Rupert Murdoch is supporting her candidacy for the Democratic nomination?

[Captain_Nemo]

15. Adn you're not afraid that

if Barack is the nominee the Republicans win?
And, you're not afraid that if Barack wins the presidency it will be like Jimmy Carter redux - an inexperienced person in a position he can't handle.
Barack is a cool charismatic man but, can he relieve the stresses in the middle east (that will lead to a nuclear showdown)?
Can he fix our economy?

I don't think he has the experience.

[AndyTiedye]

30. Hillary Will Bring Out the Clinton-Haters, Barack Will Bring Out the Racists

I don't see how either of them could get elected. The Repiglicans would walk all over us.

We need Gore. He can beat them because he can go around the Repiglican Media Slime Machine.
None of our other candidates have any abiliity to do that.

[Captain_Nemo]

33. Now that is interesting - Gore

Now, why would you pick Gore - the man who really didn't fight very hard against Bush - to go up against the Repubs?

Hillary has fought in the trenches. She knows where the bodies are buried. She went toe to toe with these republicans.
I can't say Gore did.

If I was in gladiatorial fight/game and I had to pick a running mate. It would be th eone I knew could fight.

Hillary.

She can beat Rudy handily.
She has been married to the SAME guy.
She has experience in DC.
She is a fighter.

[ldf]

76. "I can't say Gore did. "

then you obviously were not paying attention.

[Captain_Nemo]

80. He didn't put up a big enough fight

That's why people are surprised now that he seems so in control and too the ppoint and relaxed when it comes to Global Warming.
He couldn't stand up to the chimp.
And, he did cave. HE needed to insist every vote was counted. He didn't

[Captain_Nemo]

35. As a proud democrat I fight to the end.

We can win.
I am not calling it over now.

I think about all the people of our past who have won the good fight by amazing odds.
We can too.

[Tellurian]

37. I second your last two posts and nominate

Bill Richardson for the VP spot. Why waste Gen Clark's experience on the VP spot. Clark for Sect of Defense.

[Clark2008]

112. For the gazillioneth time: Clark cannot be the Secretary of Defense.

Federal law clearly statest the Def. Sec. be retired from the military for at least 10 years. Clark will only have been retired eight years by 2008.

Why waste MY time with this uninformed tripe?

Hillary won't win anyway.

[laugle]

134. Great minds think alike! Did you get that from me? LOL

[laugle]

133. It's soooo nice to hear a positive attitude! You

are right; we CAN win and we MUST!!

Thank you!!

[David Zephyr]

25. You are probably right. The polls suggest it.

But the reality of the DNC itself favors her now strongly. That's the situation we are in.

[Captain_Nemo]

85. This is what I fear from Barack

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070402/ap_on_el_pr/obama_as_jesus

I think people are putting so much on him like he is a savior. Yet, I believe all he is a Mr. Smith going to Washington.

[Learn2Swim]

91. You should...

because the idea behind that unique (and at least somewhat intriguing) piece of art, and the energy it represents is something your candidate won't be able to buy. :)

Good luck

[Captain_Nemo]

115. I don't understand

Buy what?

I don' thtink there is anything wrong with making a work of art that depicts a religious figure/icon. But, it seems to offend barack.

[Radical Activist]

117. You're afraid people think Obama is Jesus?

Or are you afraid that Obama might actually appeal to the majority of voters who are Christian? I see how that can be scary because someone who appeals to Christians might you know...win!

It would be great to have a candidate that people respond to positively instead of a candidate that has to be shoved down our throats with corporate campaign cash.

[Captain_Nemo]

122. In all due respect yes, I think there is

a blind following to Obama.

[NYCGirl]

126. Oh, of course if one doesn't follow your particular candidate, one is "blind".

Yep, I get it.

:eyes:

[Captain_Nemo]

127. No, I sense the same following in Obama as I saw with Nader

[Radical Activist]

128. And I think much of Hillary's support is name recognition

which means her standing in the polls will continue to decline.

Obama connects with people in a way that Hillary never has and never will. That's how elections are won. Many people, like myself, knew Obama when he was a State Senator and know why he will make a great president, with open eyes.

[Learn2Swim]

125. Well said RA.

[Learn2Swim]

81. Very true.

[Carolina]

69. yeah, Kerry had experience, too

and Gore and Dukakis and Mondale and McGovern.

Experience, huh, what is it good for when it comes to Democratic electoral victory? All our Dems have had smarts and experience, and still have lost to liars, actors and empty suits! And that's even before the cheating in 2000 which couldn't have happened in the first place, if the election had not been so close (between the smart, experienced Gore -- mind you -- and the ignorant dumbass who needs no mention of a name).

We need a Dem who'll APPEAL to cross-over voters, whose base support is not lukewarm, who's genuine rather than a triangulating pol.

Hillary will lose.


edited for typos

[Captain_Nemo]

86. Obama is too religious for my democratic roots

His love for "His truth" leaves women out. Male dominated religion is not good for women.
He buys into it (I don't think he ReALLY does - I think he does it for votes.)

As long as Barack talks about "his truth" and HIs word" while referring to a male deity he is not reaching out to me.

a proud democratic feminist.
Check this out.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070402/ap_on_el_pr/obama_as_jesus

[Carolina]

107. I think you replied to the wrong post

I never mentioned Obama, nor is my post about gender politics.

It's about how experience didn't mean squat for Democrats in presidential races going all the back to Hubert Humphrey -- who I forgot to mention.

BTW, Hillary's gender isn't why I think she's a loser. It's the war and her triangulation.

[Captain_Nemo]

114. I replied to your sentence:

"We need a Dem who'll APPEAL to cross-over voters, whose base support is not lukewarm, who's genuine rather than a triangulating pol.

Hillary will lose."

I mentioned Obama because a lot of people things he is getting cross over votes. I am saying he doesn't reach out to me becasue of his religious language and belief that God is the "father etc, etc.

I am turned off by that language. I don't think he is genuine on that. I think Obama is very feminist and nonhomophobic. But as long as you use that language you are not reaching out to all people. I don't hear that language from Hillary or Edwards. I am only hearing it from the Republicans and Obama. I think he is calculating in that he is using this religious language to appeal to the anti-choicers. and, the people that are homophobic.

I think that is wrong. Religious fundamentalism divides.

[Radical Activist]

119. Good luck getting Hillary to say she isn't Christian.

She follows the same patriarchal religion that Obama does. Are you bothered that her husband used religious language and quoted the Bible so much as President? Do you think Hillary will be significantly different?

What do you think about this speech Hillary gave to the 7th Day Adventists?
http://www.churchstate.org/article.php?id=41
You're being awfully selective in your criticism.

As long as we're talking about Democratic roots you should remember who made the Democratic Party the liberal party that it is today:



Much of the modern left for the last 100 years in America has been deeply rooted in religious traditions and values, including the Democratic Party.

[Captain_Nemo]

121. Good point - thanks for the link

I believe (and this goes beyond politics) that until our dominant male religion is annihilated as one of the mainstays of our culture women will continue to be second class citizens - because they are second class within these religions.

I brought up the issues in my post because people seem to think of Obama as the "savior" type person. ONe that is All Good. and, I hear the same old language from him I hear from the republicans. (yes, I have heard people critique me on this becasue of Hillary's religious language.)

That's my one issue with him.

I think he is a good man. I just think he needs more seasoning in congress before he can tackle our issues. I fear a Barack presidency becasue I fear him getting pummeled once he is in the WH and then its back to 12 years of republicans. And 12 more years of republicans is going to kill us.

[Carolina]

135. I don't think Obama is the answer either

We DO need a Dem who'll APPEAL to cross-over voters, whose base support is not lukewarm, who's genuine rather than a triangulating pol.

I just don't know who that is yet and sadly, I don't see ANYONE among the current candidates who fits the bill.

[Little Wing]

9. Howie Mandel

He can go to Congress and go "Deal, or no Deal"

[Captain_Nemo]

10. And who should she have as VP....

I think she should have Nancy Pelosi.

[mtnsnake]

47. You were on a roll, Captain, until that one

Nancy Pelosi for her VP?

I enjoyed your other posts, though!

[Captain_Nemo]

82. Why do you think its not a good idea

Because Nancy P. is best in her seat as Speaker?

I agree.

I thought I'd lighten up my posts a bit. :)

[LSK]

11. Iowa Says No

http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2007/03/28/cq_2485.html

[skipos]

13. If a "flawless" campaign gets these kinds of results...

Well, Hillary is going to need it to get her mediocre poll numbers up. Good luck!

McCain (48%) Clinton (41%) CLINTON LOSES BY 7%
McCain (38%) Edwards (47%) EDWARDS WINS BY 9%
McCain (44%) Obama (44%) TIED

Thompson (44%) Clinton (43%) CLINTON LOSES BY 1%
Thompson (37%) Obama (49%) OBAMA WINS BY 12%

Brownback (41%) Clinton (46%) CLINTON WINS BY 5%
Brownback (34%) Obama (49%) OBAMA WINS BY 15%

Giuliani (49%) Clinton (41%) CLINTON LOSES BY 8%
Giuliani (48%) Edwards (41%) EDWARDS LOSES BY 7%
Giuliani (44%) Obama (43%) OBAMA LOSES BY 1%

Gingrich (43%) Clinton (50%) CLINTON WINS BY 7%
Gingrich (38%) Obama (48%) OBAMA WINS BY 10%

Hagel (40%) Clinton (48%) CLINTON WINS BY 8%
Hagel (34%) Obama (50%) OBAMA WINS BY 16%

Romney (41%) Clinton (50%) CLINTON WINS BY 9%
Romney (29%) Edwards (55%) EDWARDS WINS BY 26%
Romney (36%) Obama (51%) OBAMA WINS BY 15%

I'd hate to see what happens when she makes a mistake.
These are all the most recent Ras polls.

[David Zephyr]

26. We are saying the same thing.

I write "flawless" in her primary campaign. Every national poll for the last two years shows that there is clearly 50% of the population that can't stand her.

Still, she's wrapping up the DNC title fairly quickly now.

[Telly Savalas]

64. At this point in 2003, LIeberman was ahead in the polls.

Months later, he was superceded by Dean as the frontrunner and inevitable nominee.

You have zero grounds at this early a point to assume that Sen. Clinton is going to walk away with the nomination.

[elizm]

98. Exactly...

And maybe that should tell us something about the DNC voters. WHY would Democrats nominate someone who 50% of the population say they would NEVER vote for?????

[juajen]

129. Because people lie

When it comes down to voting, some will not vote at all; some will pull the dem lever even if against the nominee; some just lie to affect the poll; and, some polls are biased for political reasons. Just sayin'.

[PresidentObama]

14. I like Senator Clinton a lot, but this thread is total bullshit.

Now I've heard it all on DU ;)

Proclaiming people the nominee months and months before the primary begins. Hehe.

I would suggest even the Hillary people would concede that the cat is not in the bag just yet!!

[flpoljunkie]

16. So, Mr. Zephyr, since you know so much, can you tell us how much of HRC's $26M is for the general-

and can't be spent on the primary? Clinton's campaign has made a point of not releasing this figure, yet we read on Hotline that $20M of her $26 came from big donors.

[Carolina]

73. yeah and remember

Phil Gramm, wannabe president in 1996, had a huge campaign war chest -- the mother's milk of politics and his best friend he liked to say back then. Guess what people just didn't like him!

Where is he now? Dustbin of history though he does enjoy Washington soirees as husband of the Secretary of Labor.

[sellitman]

17. If I didn't know any better I'd think that.....

you work for the HRC campaign.

As far as your poll....no thanks, you know so much already that I would only be a burden to your ego.

[jcrew2001]

18. Clark DOES NOT WANT TO BE VP

As I have been told numerous times by the Clarkies. Clark also dislikes the Clintons as I've been told.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jcrew2001]

36. Every clarkie tells me Bill fired Clark and that

Clark is not on team clinton. You guys need to get your story straight or you just end up pissing me off, and others here as well.

[David Zephyr]

27. Clark doesn't hate the Clintons. He parties with them.

Wes Clark would make a great president. Far better than Hillary. But he doesn't hate Bill and Hillary. They are good friends.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[David Zephyr]

43. There's no conflict here, jcrew2001.

My great wish is that Wes Clark will run for President. My great wish is that he will beat Hillary across the board. He's more qualified to lead the country and he has a background that shows the caliber of human being he is which deserves respect and, yes, admiration.

That said, the hard cold reality which is the sadness in my O.P. is that Hillary and Bill have all the cards and I think that a lot of people are setting themselves up for heartache because of it.

I don't have any "inside" to the Clark Campaign or to his thinking. None. But I see what every Clarkie, who is honest, sees: he continues to stay out of the race making it, at this point, nearly impossible to enter and be credible. Don't shoot me because I'm the guy who says it. Don't shoot the piano player, jcrew2001. I'm with you.

Your post demonstrates to me clearly that Wes Clark owes his supporters some indication of his intentions. I'm glad you posted what you did and if you are angry with me, that's OK, too. But, I think I'm on your side.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[CarolNYC]

60. You keep typing words as if you think that if you type enough of them

I won't notice that you don't answer my question....but you still don't answer....and I've got to wonder why the heck you are so obsessed with Clark. But I guess I won't get an answer out of you on that one. I tried.

No doubt you'll keep following Clark threads around, obsessing over him, though.

[jcrew2001]

63. I rarely start threads about Clark so your assessment

is inaccurate. I'm not nearly as obssessed with Clark as you are.

Does that make any sense?

I am responding to posts that Clarkies have made and giving my opinions. I provide my opinions on every candidate here, but only when I offend you and criticize Clark, then I'm 'obsessed'?

[CarolNYC]

67. There you go...trying to deflect again...

I never said you started Clark threads...you just chase 'em around like a little puppy....

[jcrew2001]

71. I respond to lots of threads

there just is more Clark threads than others. If there were no more Clark threads, then that would make me happier. but if you want to continue this obsession, then so be it.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jcrew2001]

66. Kerry who? everyone here is obsessed with Clark

IMO.

and if you crticize Clark in any way, the claws come out.

[jcrew2001]

58. Only Clark can decide if he wants to run!!!!

Are you that insane to think that Clark wants my opinion or your opinion on whether he wants to run for president?

If Clark had guts, he can make the decision on his own. He doesn't need my help or DU's help.

I actually think he should run. But I think its self-defeating to bash the other Democrats who are in the race currently.

[CarolNYC]

62. So now you try to deflect the questions

by calling me insane. Oooo...kay.

[jcrew2001]

65. Why would Clark care if I am criticizing his inability to decide

on runnig for the presidency?

[CarolNYC]

70. And another attempt at deflection....

Who said Clark would care what you think about him running?

Hey, enjoy yourself. I'm sure you'll be finding new and better Clark threads and posts to chase after soon enough....I gotta go.

Have a great night! :hi:

[jcrew2001]

72. Here are my responses then

Why are you so obsessed with Clark?
- I am not obsessed with Clark, I am responding to posts that Clarkies post. My criticism is not welcomed by Clarkies.

Why do you spend so much time and energy trying to convince people that he won't or shouldn't run?
-He should run if he wants, but I don't believe its my place or your place to decide whether he should run.

And why does it freak you out so much that there are people who hope he does?
-It doesn't bother me if he runs. I'm concerned that Clarkies post ridiculous claims about the 2004 election being lost due to lack of media exposure, etc. etc.

[jcrew2001]

68. My general consesus is that Clark should decide

whether he wants to run.

Is that difficult to understand? I don't think its appropriate to "Force" someone to run until he makes the decision on his own.

Lets deal with the candidates who are in the race already.

Is that okay?

[Texas_Kat]

97. Bill didn't 'fire' Clark exactly, but he didn't stand up for him either

So it's no wonder you seem to get conflicting stories.

Cohen and Shelton engineered the 'early retirement'/Washington/Inside-the-beltway removal of Clark. Then they leaked it to the press -- almost immediately.

The story below (fron 1999) is archived here and there are several contemporaneous articles all linked here in one place:
http://www.texasforclark.com/departure3.htm

Posted at 07:06 a.m. PDT; Wednesday, August 4, 1999
Clark's Exit Was Leaked Deliberately, Official Says
by Dana Priest
The Washington Post

WASHINGTON - One mystery solved. Why was Gen. Wesley Clark's early removal from his post as NATO's top commander leaked within an hour after Clark himself was informed of Defense Secretary William Cohen's decision last week?

Answer: Because Cohen's staff wanted to prevent Clark, who had led the NATO military campaign against Yugoslavia and was known to like his job, from working behind the scenes to undo the decision, according to a senior Pentagon official.

"They decided to prevent it," said the official. Included in the cabal that engineered the plot was Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon, the official said.

"I don't really have anything to add," Bacon said Monday.

Cohen, who clashed with Clark during the war over Clark's desires to plan for a ground invasion, made the decision to remove Clark early and without consulting him beforehand, because he wanted to find a way to keep Gen. Joseph Ralston, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Ralston, set to retire next year, said the NATO post was the only job he wanted.

Clinton could have reversed the decision, but did not. It was already in the press. Some Clarkies don't feel that BClinton did right by Clark. Some are more sanguine and are angry with Republican Defense Secretary William S. Cohen and Gen. H. Hugh Shelton, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for engineering it all. (The same Shelton that turned up to criticize Clark during the 04 primaries on Edwards' behalf).

I'd describe the Clintons and WKC as "friendly" but not necessarily "friends". I suppose it may depend on your definition of 'friend'. Clark says nice things about almost everyone who's a Democrat -- uh well, not Joe Lieberman... :)

His disagreements with HClinton on foreign policy are both deep and wide. HC would have to have a much more 'compliant' VP -- one that wouldn't overshadow her. I expect Evan Bayh has already been penciled in for that job.

[blm]

108. Right. When have Clintons backed up Dems other than Lieberman in a battle?

They didn't back up Cleland when he was being targeted in 2002, and they didn't back up the 2004 nominee when he was attacking Bush on Tora Bora, the decision to go to war and Rumsfeld's firing. They never even surfaced to help counter the swifts, though Kerry stepped up in 92 to defend the RW attacks on Bill for draft-dodging.

[elfin]

19. No one - she is a control freak and IF nominated will have to

choose SOMEONE which will not sit well with her - and will pick a powerless nonentity in a borderline (Red/Blue) state.

[thoughtcrime1984]

20. mccain

[mtnsnake]

21. I agree the Goddess of Peace makes few mistakes but I think Obama has a chance

Anyway, I voted for Wesley Clark as her VP if she gets the nod, which she probably will.

[PresidentObama]

22. Don't count your boy Obama out just yet, mtnsnake. Sheesh, have faith.

And don't you dare count Edwards out!!

[mtnsnake]

34. Obama can do it, but it's not going to be easy

He's going to have to find a way to start making news instead of watching Hillary on it all the time, not that I don't like watching her or anything. Obama needs to do or say something big...catch their attention.

[Tellurian]

38. Thats easy..

He can throw his support to Hillary! :rofl:

[mtnsnake]

39. Hey, careful now, chum

If Obama gets the nod, I was gonna push for him to ask Hillary to be his VP running mate, but now I'm gonna have to reconsider and push for him to ask Clark. :evilgrin:

Maybe we should do a poll to see who Clark would rather run with, Hillary or Obama. :evilgrin:

[Tellurian]

48. Well, only if you find out..

who are the "other" mystery 7 votes are for...

:toast:

[Cascadian]

94. Hillary should just stay a Senator until her term is up.

And then let a real Democrat from New York beat her in the primaries and she can go back to being a lawyer.


John

[mtnsnake]

103. A real Democrat?

Across the board, she is the epitome of a real Democrat. Too bad for you she doesn't pander just to your special needs. That's because she tries to look out for the best interests of the Party as a whole, not just the selected special interests that might make YOU happy, but all of our interests.

There's a reason the right wing is so afraid of her. It's because she's a real Democrat, not a posting board Democrat.

[David Zephyr]

28. She will pick Wes Clark as VP. I think it's already done.

"The Democratic Party only has two stars: Hillary and Wes Clark." --- Bill Clinton.

[jcrew2001]

61. i think it might be Bayh

because Clark has said he's not interested in VP and he's not a legislator.

I think Bayh can win Indiana and Ohio.

I think Clark is a wildcard because he has no solid voter support anywhere but we'll see.

[Texas_Kat]

95. Definitely Bayh

Clark is much too likely to criticize her hard-line foreign policy stances.

Hillary isn't experienced enough in international policy to feel comfortable with a VP who is more knowledgeable than she. (Hosting White House dinners for foreign dignataries doesn't count as foreign policy experience). Bayh would be much more compliant. Madeline Albright will be SoS.

Keep in mind Clark means what he says. In that he's not a typical politician. Notice the language. He isn't saying "I'm still deciding" or "I haven't made a decision". He always says "I haven't said I won't (run)."

If he were still deciding, he'd say so. Just like during the 04 election when questioned about becoming Kerry's VP. He always answered "I'm not interested in that". Every time he was asked. Though many didn't want to believe it, he always literally told us what he intended. He didn't want the VP slot in 04 and said so -- up front and consistently.

So, the upshot.... listen to what he says.... assume he's telling you the truth.

[FrenchieCat]

23. come now!

You wrote....."Has Wesley Clark already seen the writing on the wall? Is Wesley now just a stalking horse who will let down his supporters and throw his endorsement to Hillary? I'm afraid that this is the case. What have the Clintons promised him? Did he accept?"

:wtf:

That's a lot of supposing, doncha think? :wow:

Maybe Wes Clark's handicap is that he can't get any free publicity. He would have to probably "streak" naked wearing only his 4 stars in order to get any notice! Hell, he barely got any "free" press last time after October.....when he ran...so I could see how the media covering only 3 Dem "frontrunners" might become problematic to any candidacy he might be considering. Maybe that's why he ain't gonna run. With the fucked up media that we have in this country....Like why bother? If I were him, I would not run. At this point, The American public should only continue to get what it deserves, IMO. I sure "hope" that whomever wins the presidency, if a Dem, will do something about media rules....cause as of today, the shit stinks!

[David Zephyr]

29. Every word you wrote...I agree with. Every word.

The cards are so stacked and the establishment is so entrenched, FrenchieCat, that activists continually have their hearts broken.

Here's the upside for you: "The Democratic Party only has two stars: Hillary and Wes Clark." --- Bill Clinton.

[ruggerson]

31. Mark Warner or Brian Schweitzer

if she gets it, she needs a male governor. Either from the South or the Midwest.

[Rydz777]

40. Voted for Clark

Bush plans to(and will probably succeed in)running the Iraq war right through the end of his term and then dumping it into the lap of his (Democratic) successor. Clark would be a big asset in finally winding it up.

[Clarkie1]

41. Well, I guess that makes a nice fairy-tale. nt

[Elidor]

42. Joe Lieberman

Why stop at half measures? If a thing is worth doing badly, it's worth doing REALLY, REALLY badly.

[David Zephyr]

45. Ha! Well, you have a good point that I can not argue against.

Maybe Hillary should have been "strolling" in Baghdad with John McCain, too. It is as much her war as it is his.

[IndianaGreen]

53. Hillary/Joe is the winning ticket!

Perhaps they can get Ariel Sharon to come out of his coma to campaign for them!

[Cascadian]

93. Maybe they could get Sharon out of his coma and make him..

Secretary of State!


John

[David Zephyr]

136. You are a wicked woman, IG.

Wicked! ;)

[Carolina]

74. LOL, how true

eom

[ToeBot]

110. "Yeah, that's the ticket" n/t

[thereismore]

44. Another idiotic push poll. nt

[Ethelk2044]

46. She will not win

There are too many people who are not willing to vote for her. She will not win

[Tellurian]

75. She WILL Win, Ethelk..she is the most qualified!

she's a tough negotiator and won't put up with any Republican nonsense.

[Cascadian]

92. Qualified to be Republican Lite

She'll probably go along with the Repukes in regards to going to war again and more free trade freebies for the rich multinationals though. Oh and don't forget outlawing flag burning too!


John

[Tellurian]

111. And you will go on networking here to gather more protesters for the DNC Convention

Anarchy lurks everywhere and it spells disaster for the Democratic Party.

[Jai4WKC08]

132. How is she qualified?

Please. Tell me what the hell you're talking about, because I sure can't see it.

She's a senator. The Senate does not provide any experience in executive functions. That's why they almost never win presidential elections.

In addition to that, she barely has more than a single term in the Senate. So she hasn't served in any Senate leadership positions. What exactly has she accomplished in the Senate? What bills have her name on them?

Other than that, she was a state first lady for 10 years or so, and a presidential first lady for 8. What do you think there is in that job that qualifies one for the presidency? Redecorating the Lincoln bedroom, or picking out new china? Seriously, how big a staff did she have?

Now, I'll grant you Hillary Clinton was probably granted more authority than most first ladies. But damned if I can't remember that she accomplished anything significant with it.

So yeah, Clinton might be "more qualified" than Obama or Edwards, but that sure isn't saying anything much.

[KoKo]

49. It might not matter....Her Hubby is her VP...

It's the "RESTORATION" that isn't Gore...it's the one that Restores the "Bush Lights."

So...I vote for Bill Richardson. A good fit? :shrug:

[David Zephyr]

130. You might be right.

The Clintons are comfortable with Bill. He would be a good VP.

By the way, I owe you an apology. I crawled all over you several months ago for having the audacity to claim that Hillary and Bill had the nomination in the bag. I now see it the same way, and as you know, I am truly disheartened by it, but...

Many of the reactions here are similar in tone to mine back then.

The ONLY thing that can unravel Hillary now is Al Gore. And that isn't going to happen.

[Clarkie1]

51. Who was it that famously said "it's over" when Dean was so far ahead in 04?

Some big political operative...anyone remember that?

It's ain't over 'till it's over. Saying it's over now is very foolish.

[David Zephyr]

131. The establishment hated Dean and crucified him. The establishment likes Hillary.

Clarkie1, I wish it weren't so. But...

[Clarkie1]

137. I didn't like Dean, and I'm not the establishment. This is a fairy tail you are spinning.

I do think Dean is doing a wonderful job as Chairman...but I worked against him in the primaries.

[Morgana LaFey]

52. Flawless campaign?

You must be a fan. It hasn't been flawless in MY book.

[newburgh]

54. LIEberman! If he doesn't switch by then. The pukes would have to think 2x.

[salin]

101. ugh - just can't imagine him having an even more public podium

from which to whine and moralize. Though getting him out of the Senate with a shot at a better Dem stepping in is a great thought. Maybe he could get some cabinet seat where he could be over ridden by the Pres? Not sure which cabinet post that would be... where could he do the least damage?

[mitchtv]

59. I chose Richardson

funny David , for a Clark supporter, you seem so.... reasonable

[David Zephyr]

139. Hello mitchtv

Bill Richardson is a good man.

Let's get together again next time I'm in the desert. I ejoyed meeting you.

[mtnsnake]

77. Maybe she'll court John McCain for VP like Kerry did & then settle for a Democrat

if McCain turns her down, too. lol

[snowbear]

78. Hillary Schmillary

Oh give us a f'n break, will ya David.

Your thread does absolutely nothing but make Tellurian all giddy inside.

....."she's going to be the nominee of the Democratic Party. It's over."

If that's how you feel, I guess you'll be bagging it here and we'll see you again after the election in '08 huh?

AWESOME ~~

Have a great summer!

As for the rest of us.

Those who closely pay attention to political debates (which we haven't had even ONE of), we'll likely be having DU "debate night gatherings" here. As we always do, we'll discuss which candidates knocked it outta the park, and which candidates if any put their foot in their mouth.

Mostly though, we'll talk about how well each of the candidates addressed the issues.

Since you're dead-set certain and are locked into YOUR candidate, hey - take the summer off!!!!

Drop back in after the election.

We'll have the grill set up by then, and one of our renowned DU Chefs will make sure we cook your crow just the way you like it!


David Dines @ DU

[gulliver]

79. Bill Clinton

Just kidding.

No really.

[ButterflyBlood]

84. How about Lieberman, her male counterpart?

Who also happened to be performing better in early 2003 in the polls than she is now. Take note of that and think.

[fujiyama]

89. Who cares...

Seriously? Which states will she win that Kerry or Gore lost?

That's the only thing I keep thinking...and I can't think of any.

She'll drag down all the senate and house seats as well. And in the end, we'll be worse off than we are now. Basically we will undo any gains made in the last election.

I'd hope I'm wrong though.

[Imagevision]

96. She may as well pick Bill, legally he can be the VP.

[w4rma]

100. He can't be VP. He would be in line for the Presidency. (nt)

[Apollo11]

104. What planet are you living on?

"Hillary Clinton said today that public appearances with her and Bill would be rare.
The only thing more rare? Private appearances with her and Bill."
-- Jay Leno, March 28, 2007

[LittleClarkie]

99. I. love. her. She. is. much. better. than. Cats.

I. want. to. vote. for. her. again. and. again.

[robcon]

102. I think if she chooses Obama, we'll have 16 years of Democrats.

Obama would be a great follow-up to Clinton, and he's young enough to wait the eight years.

[sampsonblk]

105. Wes Clark

Put him on a national platform like that and you really got yourself something. That guy speaks a language that people understand, with a clarity far beyond what the usual politicians can deliver. Like Bill Clinton, every time I hear Wesley Clark speak, I just want to sit down and take notes.

[JNelson6563]

106. If she wins the nom

I hope she picks someone people actually *like* for VP.

Julie

[wisteria]

109. Flawless? Not in my opinion. n/t

[mvd]

113. A reminder for all

Refrain from extreme group attacks, please.

mvd
DU Moderator

[Radical Activist]

116. What a joke this post is.

First that you're arrogant enough that you think you know who will win is a joke. And second, that you think anyone will believe it just because you say so.

Hillary has done nothing but have name recognition and raise money. Other than that, her campaign is mediocre. She isn't leading the polls in the primary states. Most Democratic primary voters believe she is an unprincipled opportunist who will change her positions weekly to get elected. Ultimately, that is why she won't win.

[saltpoint]

118. Like it or not, all presidential candidates are human.

Veep possibilities can come from the field of presidential candidates who do not secure the nomination, or from other possibilities in the Democratic constellation.

A given candidate may win the nomination. If she or he doesn't, a veep nod may ensue.

"Flawless" !?

We're all just human.

[El Fuego]

120. A flawless campaign, just like Howard Dean's.

[Timmy5835]

123. Considering the campaign hasn't really started.....

....and a lot can happen in a year. A logical person would not even make such a statement.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

124. Wesley Clark

or maybe it will be Obama

[hippiechick]

138. Flawless huh ?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: