Dems: the "war" is over, this is an "OCCUPATION"

[EVDebs]

War Powers Resolution
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/warpower.htm

Hmmm. 'clearly indicated' (truthful) 'situations' and 'circumstances'

"SEC. 3. The President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and after every such introduction shall consult regularly with the Congress until United States Armed Forces are no longer engaged in hostilities or have been removed from such situations."

Patently, this is NOT the case with Iraq ! All based upon LIES, ergo...And besides, now the 'war' is over and we need to redefine the mission or get out since the mission has morphed into an OCCUPATION.

The current situation DEMANDS that Democrats stop using the word 'war' regarding the Iraqi occupation. If you don't you just continue playing the Republican's game.

[Quakerfriend]

1. YES, and somebody needs to start talking about the HUGE,

PERMANENT bases that have bee erected all over Iraq.

[pampango]

4. "Permanent" bases were erected in the Philippines after

WWII and are no longer there, because world geopolitics changed. The Philippines government finally told them to leave and they did. Similar bases are still in Germany and Japan only because their governments do not want them to leave.

[pampango]

2. You might even be able to win over some Republicans with the

theme that we won the "war" (defeated the Iraqi army), but should not continue an unpopular occupation. If occupation of Germany or Japan had become as violent, we could have still claimed to have "won the war" and still rid ourselves of the occupation.

[EVDebs]

9. Bush's base of evangelicals will respond to Luke 9:5 argument

We should just 'shake the dust from our sandals' so to speak !

KJV: "And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

Let's just say Iraqis haven't received us well and leave it at that, eh ?

Bush's valid argument btw, that the Arab world needs modernization, see

Arab Human Development Reports
http://rbas.undp.org/ahdr2002.shtml

by the UN have always said that these improvements must come from self-determination, not from an imposition by outsiders (a.k.a. 'crusaders' as Arabs will always say).

Besides, Arabs can read. What Went Wrong ? by Bernard Lewis is a good place to start, and Bush/GOPers/neocons will agree on the points made there.

[sampsonblk]

3. Amen, K & R

We are kicking our own arses on this point. Your point is what makes all the difference in the world.

[UnyieldingHierophant]

5. Mission Accomplished!*

[ClassWarrior]

21. .

[Metta]

6. Yes, indeed. Very good.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :donut: :donut: :)

[havocmom]

7. Can we get some more Rs for this logical tactic?

Tell the thugs and wingers we already won the war. Saddam is gone.

But you cannot win an occupation unless you:
1) have the support of the occupied - clearly we don't
2) are willing to do complete genocide - which is not a taste most Americans have nor an action the rest of the world would tolerate

The WAR is over. Bring home the victorious troops and stop writing blank checks to cheney's corporate masters!

[EVDebs]

10. Permanent Bases vs. Bush's June 2005 "Stand down"

The OBVIOUS lie re 'standing down' and the Permanent Bases,

If the U.S. is ultimately leaving Iraq, why is the military building 'permanent' bases?
http://www.fcnl.org/iraq/bases.htm

'As Iraqis Stand Up, We Will Stand Down,' Bush Tells Nation
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=16277

BTW, this is what got the Quakers spied upon by the NSA, folks. If you can't tell the truth to Bush & Co. then maybe some of his minions in Congress (up for eventual election, and their besmirched 'legacy' to boot) will LISTEN.

Let those with ears hear...

[hippiechick]

8. It never WAS a 'war' ...

... it was an invasion - without the (Constitutionally required) - Congressional declaration of war - of a sovreign nation.

Dimson invaded, overthrew the stable (but really shitty) Iraqi gov't, and paved the way for a civil war. We're reaping what the Cabal has sown. It just sucks that our troops have to deal with it first hand. :(

[EVDebs]

12. Please push this post and you comments into the K/R and 'greatest page'

in order to get the largest viewing audience of DUers. I agree about this 'invasion' but the war powers resolution of '73 REQUIRES 'clear' (read truthful) 'situations' and 'circumstances'.

If Congress doesn't act on the PATENTLY illegal nature of this Oct 2002 IWR, then we must begin DEMANDING that Congress start discussing it !!!!

[enough already]

11. If the war is over, there's no need to fund it, right? n/t

[havocmom]

13. We need more Rs

this is a good one folks

[EVDebs]

15. Please hit the greatest page button and thanks for your support ! nt

[ClassWarrior]

14. Thanks George Lakoff! I've been hearing this excellent meme...

...more and more lately. Specifically from Sen. Webb and Randi Rhodes.

NGU.

[EVDebs]

16. Gracias , ClassWarrior !

How conservatives use language to their advantage
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

NGU = Never Give Up !

[paparush]

17. "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.


Securing and reconstructing = O C C U P A T I O N !!!!!!!!

[Gregorian]

18. I'm recommending this. And doing so with my new avatar.

To the Hague!

It's not premature to get angry about this. We have our proof. Let's get on with it.

[bonito]

19. On target! k&r n/t

[frogcycle]

20. agree wholeheartedly

i've been saying that for quite some time. the war ended four years ago. the occupation is illegal and it is by definition impossible to "win"

bush's latest tortured effort to define "success" was ludicrous in the extreme. It can't be done, even by people with more than five functioning brain cells and the ability to compose complete sentences.

he might as well be throwing 3.9 American kids per day into an active volcano - and maiming another 10-12 as well.

we MUST change the rhetoric. they do it all the time. it is an OCCUPATION. an ILLEGAL OCCUPATION. every dem should start using that term consistently "George Bush's illegal occupation". Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid should say that at least three times per hour except when sleeping.