I cannot believe the number of people on DU demanding that Kerry drop out.

[boxster]

This is ludicrous. Some sleezeball in a fedora breaks a 'story' that is little but election-year political garbage, and DUers stampede to the story like hyenas to a dead wildebeest and declare that Kerry is unquestionably worse than Bush and should drop out immediately.

Sour grapes, anyone?

Hmm, seems to me that there is exactly zero evidence of anything. The intern's parents said there was no affair, Kerry has categorically denied it, there is no independent confirmation of anything, yet many, MANY DUers are ready to throw him to the wolves. All under the guise of "what's good for the party", of course.

If we're going to bail on our candidates at the slightest whiff of controversy, we might as well skip the election, because NONE of our candidates are going to hold up to the standard of perfection, and NONE of our candidates are going to be immune from RW attacks.

If we're going to latch on to every RW smear of our candidates, then - pardon the cliché - they've already won.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. Her parents said there was no affair

that about covers it. It's all about who hates Kerry the most now.

[Cheswick2.0]

3. when you were 24 did you tell your parents about your sex life?

I certainly didn't. Of course I was married at that age and had a child so I think they assumed I was having sex.
If the affair did happen I can't imagine this girl telling her parents she was sleeping with someone elses husband.

[Cheswick2.0]

2. I haven't seen anyone demand he drop out

but if the rumor is true he probably should do so. Getting rid of bush is the only important thing right?

[oasis]

9. Can't risk losing the cristian conservative vote.

[Blue_Roses]

30. WAKE UP CALL

we already have...for the most part, that is the extreme fundies. They are upset about the gay marriage thing and will support Bush on this.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. it's not that simple

I doubt that only christian conservatives will be turned off by this. Some people who don't care will not vote for him simply because they don't want to be dragged through 4 years of screaming right wing nuts saying all democrats are liberal and all liberals are immoral.

[eissa]

40. But that IS what will happen

no matter who our candidate is; the rw has a formula that works and they are going to stick with it. Personally, I refuse to fall for their crap.

[Atlant]

16. I haven't demanded it but I have suggested it's the only reasonable...

I haven't demanded Kerry drop out but I have suggested it's the only
reasonable course of action open to him.

At this point, Kerry's coming clean won't help; he's checkmated.

If he admits to an affair and comes clean, he'll trigger the "Oh no,
another Clinton wannabee who'll bring us scandal after scandal"
reaction and Democrats will run screaming from his candidacy. They
understand now just how ineffective and emasculated a Democratic
President would be under constant pressure from the Republican
Smear Machine.

If he denies the affair, the Vast Republican Smear Machine will simply
keep bringing THIS ONE up again and again, aiming towards a grand climax
somewhere around Monday, Novermber 1st, 2004.

Kerry is toast, either now or on Election Day (and the Democrats still
get to choose which of those two options they'd prefer).

Atlant

[Cheswick2.0]

35. didn't you hear that Kerry has it all sewn up with 20 percent of the

primary vote haveing taken place? Falll in line, we can't do any better.

Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability Electability

[northzax]

38. You are correct

Electability is the single most important thing. So by all means, let's take the only man who has peoven the ability to win more than one election and kick him to the curb. As I see it, once we get rid of him, we have three choices: a man who has only won the state he was born in, two men who haven't won anything, and Al Sharpton. Am I missing anything?

[retyred]

70. yeah, I've heard that

and yeah it is all about electability and yeah we already are doing better than we were two months ago!



retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Kahuna]

37. Grand. If our guys all quit because of wingnut lies...

who will be left to run?

[Atlant]

42. It may have come via a wingnut, but are you sure it's a lie? (NT)

[boxster]

54. Ok, fine. Kerry drops out. What's to keep the RW from pulling the same

crap with the other candidates? We're so willing to accept what they say as fact and acknowledge that our candidates are scum. Hey, if it works, stick with it.

Based on your logic, should anyone who is falsely accused by the right-wing drop out? I guess they can just pick them off one-by-one then.

Count on having no one left standing for the Democrats come November.

[Faygo Kid]

4. This is nothing - just wait till the mud really flies

If people here are going to call for the nominee to step down every time the Republican mud machine goes into action, we will be left with no nominee whatsoever. By the way, sexual misconduct will be alleged against every Dem. We could have run Mother Theresa in her prime, and the GOP would post something on Drudge accusing her of sexual misconduct.

[boxster]

6. I agree entirely.

If it works with Kerry, it will work with every other candidate. If we don't stop it now, we certainly won't be able to stop it later.

[adadem]

5. We Kerry supporters

have "been there" before with calls for Kerry to drop out...for quite a long while, a matter of fact.

Many here were calling for Kerry to drop out long before a single vote "By the People" had even been cast.

Sour grapes describes it exactly.

[molly]

22. I am not worried about this at all - Kerry is above

acting like a spoiled brat child and yelling and screaming about his innocense.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Champion Jack]

13. I'm going for the latter, My solution is to use the "Ignore" function

Liberally.

[Maddy McCall]

29. I found that to be a beautiful solution, too

Has made my DUing much much much more bearable and has greatly reduced any chance that I'll get a warning.

[Zech Marquis]

43. how do I use the Ignore function?

It sounds like I need to employ it myself :evilgrin: I'm sick and tired of these rumormongering"supporters" hyping up botox,a fake intern scandal, and now calling Clark endorsing Kerry a sellout.

[boxster]

61. Click the little sleeping guy icon to the right of the username.

Enjoy!

[Atlant]

17. Or maybe we're just trying to save the Democratic Party from making...

Or maybe we're just trying to save the Democratic Party from making
a terrible mistake by nominating Kerry.

Atlant

[BidMarx]

8. Kerry isn't worse than Bush cause of this...Hes less "electable"

He knew that and kept it secret from us. Now we know that and need to take appropriate action because the real goal is beating Bush, not losing cause of some scandal. We flock to it because we know the gneral public will, and perception is 95% of this war. It will resonate, and hence, it makes him "unelectable". Period.


He, knowing this, needs to drop out unselfishly and help us focus on Bush with a candidate that has a shot at winning.

[MoonRiver]

11. The point is that Pukes will be doing it to whichever Dem candidate wins!

Why is this concept so difficult for some to grasp?? :shrug: Are we going to start pre-emptively conceding whatever lie and spin Pukes put out there on righwing rags because "somebody" "somewhere" might think there's "something" to it?? If so this is political strategy run amok! :crazy:

[oasis]

12. If the story can be proven, which it can't, Kerry loses the fundies

who were not going to vote for him anyway.

[boxster]

62. Yep.

What a loss! :eyes:

[Atlant]

20. A whole lot of people told us this!

> because the real goal is beating Bush,

A whole lot of people told us this, at least back when it was Dean
that was the one the media was currently touting as "unelectable".

Atlant

[flakey_foont]

10. It' Deja Vu All Over Again

,,,,,there really does not seem to be much of a story, but the buzz words "intern' and 'affair' and the next step is the association in the consciousness of the average voter with the anti-Christ 'Clinton' as if nobody expected that! ..it stinks! it's slimy and dirty, but it mobilizes the Conservatives - CLINTON! CLINTON! CLINTON

'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

[nickinSTL]

15. He knew?

"Kerry isn't worse than Bush cause of this...Hes less "electable"
He knew that and kept it secret from us"

Why are you people assuming the rumors are true? Because DRUDGE says so? Where's the evidence?

If it is true, Kerry may be sunk. But, if it's not, and Kerry is forced to drop out, Edwards, or Dean, or whoever is up next will face the same type of allegations.

[bpilgrim]

14. is it true clark started this rumor?

thats what the right is alluding to :shrug:

peace

[funky_bug]

24. It is true that Drudge SAID that Clark alluded to an "intern" issue

Matt the Sludge said, "sources" say Clark said Kerry would implode over an intern issue.

These "sources" are unnamed.

Got it?

[mikehiggins]

26. No, it is not true (the spurious claim that Clark started this)

The story of Kerry's supposed assignations has been floating around forever, along with the prostate story (actually, if both are true he has to be some hell of a man).

No reporter (a dozen were supposedly privy to an "off-the-record" briefing by Clark) has come forward to back up any of Drudge's claims.

This entire story most likely originated in the same White House office where the Wilson/Plame/Novak story began.

Believe either part of it at your risk.

[Stuckinthebush]

18. No kidding -

How interesting that all the GOP operatives have to do is say, "AFFAIR!", and we melt like butter.

They want to play hard ball? Well, OK...let's go after all of the GOP twits who have had affairs and are on their 3rd marriages. Hell, we can even go after Poppy - he had an affair for years. George, Jr. threatened to beat anybody up if they asked about it, but nevertheless, Poppy seems to have screwed around on old Barb.

The problem is that the GOP eats this crap up when a Dem is involved, and ignores it when a Repub is involved. Let's open up everybody's dirty laundry bag and watch the issue die in lustful glory.

Not to mention that this whole Kerry affair thing seems to be an unsubstantiated rummer by Drudge and the GOP.

I think that some of the DUers are grabbing on to this as vindication of their support for a certain candidate.

[CWebster]

19. stampede is what happens

Say, weren't you one of the ones demanding that Dean drop out? You know, cause he was made "unelectible" by his "anger"...

[molly]

23. The President controls nuclear arms

[CWebster]

25. ah, yes talking about smears

The networks apologize to Dean for portraying his pep-rally performance deceptively and flooding the airwaves, like a public stoning, and instead prop up a smirking imbecile and you have the unapologetic gall to suggest to me that straight-talking Dean is unstable?

if I said what I really though about that comment I would be banned.

[northzax]

39. oh come on now

you think there's a button on the desk in the white house that the President can push at any time to shoot off some nukes at something? it's not that easy, you know.

[boxster]

48. Nope, never once suggested he drop out. Still haven't.

I felt it made him a weaker candidate (though, I didn't think he was the best candidate in the race to begin with), but I didn't suggest he drop out over it.

Why should he? He was the front-runner, he had a ton of cash, he was getting endorsements.

I've defended Howard Dean (and his supporters) on many an occasion.

Edit: in fact, I can't recall one occasion where I've suggested that any of our candidates (and not just Dean) drop out.

[funky_bug]

21. Way to go, fellow Wes Dem

You said it all!

[Nashyra]

32. Supporters for other campaigns calling for Kerry to

drop out you don't do anything for your candidate, you actually hurt him. I was confused as to who to throw my support to and unfortunately I would not consider a particular candidate because the thought of working with some of his supporters was unacceptable, my thought was that his supporters was a reflection of the candidate. I thought about the Dean campaign so I am a bit disappointed to see some of these post. Do your candidate a favor and back off.

[phillybri]

27. We're a bunch of cannibals...

It's been sickening the way people have jumped on this bullshit story.

I like to believe we're all smarter than this...

[edzontar]

28. I wish Kerry would drop out, but not because of this

But because I don't like his policies or his campaign style.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Padraig18]

34. I haven't seen anyone demanding that he drop out.

Do you have a link to where someone said he should?

[boxster]

69. I believe that calling out other DUers is against the rules.

I've seen numerous claims today alone. Go review some of the Kerry/intern threads from earlier today, and I'm certain you'll find some.

[mountebank]

36. When you put all your eggs in the "electability" basket....

Prepare to have it dumped by the likes of Matt Drudge.

Lesson #1. Vote on issues.

[physaf]

46. Great idea! Vote on the issues!

Clarity instead of hype is great to see here.

[boxster]

53. Ok, so let's say it worked on Kerry. What's to stop the RW from

smearing our other candidates with similar BS stories? And, don't believe that they won't. We've given them no reason not to.

[BL_Zebub]

41. Kerry should indeed drop out.

He's funded by FAUX News and advised by PNAC. That's reason enough. What he does with his penis is no concern of mine.

[West Coast Democrat]

44. I couldn't believe there were Dean supporters saying they

would run him as a third party candidate. But there are some foolish-behaving people around here.

[On the Road]

45. I Think the Rush to Judgment is Astounding, Too

It's still too early to tell. This could be anything from a Clinton mulatto love child story to a Donna Rice to a Gennifer Flowers.

The fact that Clark quote has not been substantiated makes the whole thing a little more suspicious.

[JVS]

47. Sour grapes is something else, this is Schadenfreude

Sour grapes is when you deny the quality of something you know you would like. An example would be saying "So what that Gore endorsed Dean, I'm happy my candidate isn't associated with that loser" when really the person saying this would be really happy if Gore had endorsed their candidate.

This situation is very different. If I may speak for Dean supporters for a moment: We are not jealous of the media trying to smear Kerry. We are legitimately glad that this smear was not directed at Dean.

[boxster]

49. Good answer.

I can see why that would be the case. Dean has certainly suffered enough BS media smears without something like this being tacked on.

[stickdog]

50. One word.

ELECTABILITY

[boxster]

52. If it works on Kerry, what's to keep the RW from smearing all of our

candidates in similar ways? Nothing. In fact, if Kerry drops out, I guarantee we'll see more of the same.

Then, none of them are electable.

[stickdog]

56. Kerry SUPPOSEDLY had one thing going for him: ELECTABILITY.

Dean has healthcare, balanced budgets and Iraq.

Kerry has SAFETY and ELECTABILITY.

[eileen_d]

58. Electability isn't why Kerry's winning

Electability is what Kerry is PROVING, every time he wins a primary or caucus.

[boxster]

60. The only people who think Kerry is getting votes only because

of electability are his opponents and their supporters.

Safety? If you mean national security, fine. That's certainly one of the things he has going for him.

National security, incidentally, is very obviously going to be the ONLY thing Bush runs on. We better have someone who can counter that.

Is that Dean?

[genius]

51. I'm about ready to quit over the attacks on the Democrats here.

I'm not even voting for Kerry but this looks like what I would expect from the Republican Underground.

[stickdog]

57. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!

Thanks!

[AlinPA]

55. I am feeling ill reading the posts here.

I am a Democrat who wants to beat Bush*. Listen closely: Anybody But Bush*. If we want that piece of garbage Rove running this country for another 4 years, then keep bashing each other. Damn.

[Rich Hunt]

59. I don't want anyone to 'drop out'...

...because of attacks from the right.

I simply want to encourage debate - I think it strengthens the fight against Bush.

But drop out because of tabloid bs? Not me.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boxster]

66. Excellent post. And, I agree.

I must admit that I have often wondered if some of the most (overly) ardent supporters of certain candidates are supporters at all.

It never made much sense to me why people would argue baseless claims and what seem like talking points to death and alienate several other posters while doing so.

Maybe people just don't realize that they're doing their candidates no favors. Or maybe they do realize that ranting and personal attacks are, in fact, harming the candidates they claim to support.

[shivaji]

64. heck no....things are just starting to get interesting.

[Ripley]

65. Why don't you show the same feelings about Dean?

He was smeared by the TV media 633 times...saying he was exhibiting "bizarre behavior" and "crazy" and "unsuitable for President" etc.

A lot of Kerry/Clark folks gang-banged Dean on that one.

My how the tables turn.

Personally, I don't think anyone should say any Dem should drop out, even Sharpton. They all have a right to continue the process.

Just curious why it's okay to latch onto the media onslaught on one guy, but not another?

[boxster]

68. I have defended Dean and his supporters on many an occasion.

In fact, I have defended probably every candidate in the race at one time or another, with the possible exception of Al Sharpton and Carol Mosely-Braun, primarily because they're not often attacked.

That being said, I don't show the same feelings for Dean, because I don't have the same feelings for Dean. I was a Clark supporter who is currently undecided, but leaning Kerry (my primary is three months away, so it's pretty much irrelevant anyway).

Dean calling my preferred candidate a Republican on several occasions didn't sit well with me. Should it have?

[RedDawnRising]

67. I think Kerry and Edwards should drop out

A race between Dean and Dennis would be super.