Top Nazis got less time than a non-violent drug dealer in the U.S.

[ProudDad]

Just now on Mike Malloy's show (hosted by Jeff Farias -- a rather good upright bass player): Sasha Abramsky, author of American Furies: Crime Punishment and Vengeance in the Age of Imprisonment is on. He's a very interesting guy.

He made the point that the top Nazis got less time for war crimes than a 3 time non-violent drug "dealer" in the U.S. would get. Of course in our fucked up state of California, a 3 time drug offender would get 25 to life.

How fucked up is that?

There was some asshole Dem Congressman from Maryland on Ed Shultz this morning who was fucked up enough to say that he considered a drug dealing offense a "violent crime".

The phony "war on drugs" is the violent crime. I consider the phony "war of drugs" a crime on the order of the Holocaust!!!

Terminating the phony "war on drugs" should a be top priority along with terminating the phony "war on terror"!

[ixion]

1. well said

:applause:

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Ben Franklin Says...

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
- From his final address at the Constitutional Convention (underline added by me)

[Traveling_Home]

3. Did he say which top Nazi s- just historically curious

I know that almost all the top Nazi leadership committed suicide - even Goering - just before we were to hang him. Even the doofuss that flew from Gernmany to Scotland in the middle of the war was put away for ever (funny story there). We hung lots of their generals and political leaders after Nuremburg and lesser known tribunals - Indian Judges often differing in the decisions - another interesting story.

We also absconded with lots of scientists (Von Braun, etc).

Anyway did he name any names of top Nazis he had in mind.

;-)

[ProudDad]

6. Moved

[NoPasaran]

4. Top Nazis?

You mean the ones who were hanged?

[William769]

5. I thought the top Nazis were hung or shot.

:shrug:

[Karenina]

14. The 2nd tier nazis

were imported into Allen Dulles' OSS (the CIA predecessor), given new identities, citizenship and put to the "work" at hand. See: Operation Paperclip.

[ProudDad]

7. Aw, crap. I knew this would happen

Yes, a few of the top nazis were hung and one, goering, hung himself.

Of the ones who were sentenced to prison terms, the maximum was life -- same as a 3 time convicted drug dealer in California.

The longest sentence completed was Albert Speer's -- he did his whole 20 years before being released in 1966. This was much less than most 3 time drug dealers.

Rudolf Hess, who tried to broker a peace with Britain served the most of his life sentence. "At 93, he was one of the oldest prisoners in Germany, if not the world. By all accounts he was found in a "summer house" in a garden located in a secure area of the prison with an electrical cord wrapped around his neck. His death was ruled a suicide by self-asphyxiation, hanged accomplished by tying the cord to a window latch in the summer house. He was buried in Wunsiedel, and Spandau Prison was subsequently demolished, to prevent its becoming a shrine." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess


The MAIN point is that a low level drug dealer routinely gets more time in prison in the U.S. than a Nazi war criminal...

[madrchsod]

9. this would have been a far better example

the Japanese unit 731... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

other than the ones the russians captured none of these guys spent anytime in jail- we gave them amnesty for the information they gathered from unspeakable crimes against a human being.

[hughee99]

10. IIRC, Goering poisoned himself (Potassium Cyanide)

Of the top Nazi's that I recall, 1 got 10 years (Donitz), 1 got 15 years and two got 20 years. The rest either got life, or hung.

[rockymountaindem]

8. The war on drugs = the Holocaust?

Let's not get carried away here.

[ProudDad]

11. Not getting carried away

I said a crime on the order of the holocaust. I meant that. In terms of the number of people harmed by that phony war on drugs, more are effected by the phony war on drugs.

My opinion and I'm entitled to it.

The phony "war on drugs" is also a form of genocide.

[Socal31]

12. ???

Well its my first post! I'm hoping I'm right for this board. I'm consider myself progressive, but I'm going to take a different stance than 75% of the posts I read on here, I am sure of that.

Anyway, to call the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror" greater than, or equal to, the holocaust, is exactly why we cant get a dem elected. This makes most people laugh. Comparing the want of a country to get rid of harmful substance (if you want to debate whether drugs are harmful, I might die laughing), with the systematic elimination of a race, is ludicrous.

I hope we can stop using such hyperbole. How will we even win ONE of the red states if we spew this type of nonsense?

Anyway, Ive been reading posts on here for 4-5 years, but just now registered. Glad to be aboard!

[midnight]

13. . I will let you know................

that there are many levels of the war on drugs. It started with the street drugs, and is now moving into the prescription drugs. And let me tell you that when more people are coming home from work and picking up their prescription drugs they can and are being picked up by police who can charge you with owi. Does not matter that you have not ingested the prescription. They will take your blood and do a "work up on you". Police have access to your medical everything via patriot act. Believe me, you and most people will not be laughing.

[ieoeja]

15. What a weird spin you put on this.

He's not talking about "want of a country to get rid of harmful substance." He is comparing, "life sentence in jail for non-violent crimes" with "death sentence for religious beliefs".

I agree with you that this comparison is unacceptable. The latter is on a different plain.

Hyperbole aside, the original poster is correct that a life sentence (or ten years or twenty years) for a non-violent crime is evil, tyranical and should not be tolerated in a decent society. Sad to say it is. Doubly so knowing that many of these people are not even guilty of the crime for which they have been convicted. My own brother only managed to escape a twenty year jail sentence when one of his accusers tried killing the prosecutor pissing off the prosecutor enough to prosecute them instead of letting them pick someone to incarcerate in their place.

In case you're wondering how that works, the police and prosecutors probably believe these guys were turning evidence against a real crime lord. In reality, the crime lord they made my brother to be would probably have had them and/or their families executed. It was safer for them to pick my brother, a law abiding neighbor, than to give the police a real criminal. But the police and the vast majority of this country are fucking stupid enough to believe the accusers in these situations. Which is why we have hundreds of thousands of innocent men serving decades long sentences in jail right this moment.

But, by all means, let us continue the war on drugs as we must get rid of the harmful substances at any cost. Just keep whistling past those prison walls.