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Will Obama endorse Bush's end of Social Security via "partial privatization individual Accounts"

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:18 PM
Original message
Will Obama endorse Bush's end of Social Security via "partial privatization individual Accounts"
Edited on Thu May-10-07 09:27 PM by papau
Will Obama endorse Bush's end of Social Security via "partial privatization individual Accounts" as his advisers suggest?


Obama's detailed positions on issues are in general not yet known, but are promised over the next few months. For now all we can do is look at the advisers he has chosen in each policy area. And for that we have interesting review of the positions taken in the past by those Obama has chosen to advise him and to structure the details of the positions he will endorse over the coming months http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=&sid=a7Zdp3HDltW4&refer=home ("Obama's Economic Brain Trust Breaks With `Status Quo' " by Rich Miller and Matthew Benjamin). While a candidates’ position paper is preferred of course, this has to be a better prognosticator than the Nation magazine's used of Hillary's pollster Mark Penn's client list to perhaps reveal her supposed pro-corporate positions - as if a pollster determines a policy position as opposed to determining how a policy position is most effectively packaged.

Obama has described himself as a small step change person, and the New Yorker Magazine's 11 page article http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar made clear that he is a small step conservative, and Osama’s advisers on policy have policy positions which obviously do indicate the direction of his thinking. But again, it is the candidate that makes the final decision - and for all we know he made in choosing some of these folks in his brain trust because he simply wants to hear the other side to, or alternatives to, the progressive point of view.

In any case I thought the positions of the advisors interesting enough to pull their policy positions out of the article above (the policy advisors are three economist academics named Austan Goolsbee, 37, a University of Chicago professor and columnist for The New York Times, Jeffrey Liebman, 39, a pension and poverty expert at Harvard University, and David Cutler, 41, a Harvard health economist, and two lawyers, Daniel K. Tarullo and Michael Froman).

Energy Plan - a $7B over 10 years energy plan where hybrid car production is encouraged by the incentive of a subsidy for employee health insurance for those that produce hybrid cars and alternate fuel cars, with a push for pushing corn alcohol who's oil saving is questioned, and coal to gas, whose clean environmental effect is questioned, has GM saying they prefer a nation solution to the health care problem, and others saying it is an unneeded bailout of large corporations that does not solve health, car mileage improvement, or jobs, yet costs a great deal. Whether it is a progressive, liberal plan is for those on the left to decide. But at least here Obama has a bit of detail - unlike the other areas below.

Trade Agreements - Obama's advisor Austan Goolsbee is going against union pressure to advocate continued Free Trade with none of the minimum wage, human rights, etc. provisions the left talks about but with a job retraining program to cushion the impact on those workers who lose out from globalization. However, also developing policy here is lawyer Daniel K. Tarullo who "escapes easy labeling" - perhaps implying Gollsbee’s “Free” trade position may be modified when Obama decides on his Trade position.

Globalization, trade and economic development - Obama's advisor here is another lawyer who worked for Citibank and is now a member of the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations, Michael Froman. I like Forman's past efforts to push micro- lending and securitization to finance vaccine programs and promote job creation in poor countries, but will these be the policies Obama actually adopts?

Health Plan - beyond the car bailout subsidy for health coverage of employees, Obama policy advisor David Cutler is trying to avoid discussing single payer or Bush's do it yourself health savings accounts, and wants to instead push a new idea that doctors and hospitals would get paid for results - presumably if you died, you would have the satisfaction of knowing they got fewer dollars for your care, unless they can show you were a goner before they got to you. "Patients would be encouraged to take better care of themselves through preventive care and comparison shopping for medical cost savings" - but that sounds like out of pocket expenses you are to minimize by those wise lifestyle choices. Aaron of Brookings questions the government’s ability to quantify the value to society of the treatment you receive so as to modify medical incomes. Will Obama's eventual position reflect the thoughts of the advisors he has chosen in this area - we will have to wait and see.

On Social Security - Obama actually has a proponent of a cut back in Social Security, with a replacement of income cut via individual account advisor in Jeffrey Liebman - who calls this "partial privatization". Is Obama as open to private accounts as his advisor who recommended in the past, along with an aid to McCain, a mix of benefit cuts, tax increases and mandatory personal accounts to shore up the system? Will Obama reject the "no payroll tax wage cap progressive liberal position" as "too big a step to take"? Indeed, will Obama, who promised to preserve what he's called the "essential character" of our old age retirement system, listen to the advisor he has chosen to help with policy in this area?

Indeed it will be interesting to see Obama's eventual policy positions on these issues - and others - and the reaction on the left to those positions. JFK won the hearts of the left with conservative positions present in great speeches with a vision and a great speaking style. In 2008 we may have a repeat of that phenomena - or we may not.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. That kid has to GET AWAY from some of his advisors..
Isn't "privatization" what made B*sh's plan less popular the more he talked about it?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. True - but Obama sells "bi-partisan" and new thinking/new way and small steps - it will be
interesting to see where he comes down on these issues - or if he even comes down to a detailed policy on these issues rather than just leave us with a broad vision that we can fill with our own ideas.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
42. I want nothing to do with bipartisanship..
Edited on Fri May-11-07 08:08 AM by Tellurian
Republicans have proven time and time again they can't be trusted. They and their president have ruined out country and set it back progress wise 20 yrs. Republicans have no viable candidate for 08', they are encircling Obama like vultures on roadkill. He's embracing their help to beat Hillary in the Primary. So, what happens when these mobsters expect payback? Does he think if he's president he can handle himself with these piranhas? Not a chance. They'll tell him we own you and your family, body and soul!

Nah, I want no part of Republicans involved in a Democrats campaign. And if Obama was a TRUE Democrat, he wouldn't either!
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #42
56. Hey, you and Grover Norquist , on the same page!
He's against bipartisanship as well.
Part of the problem or part of the solution?
Your choice.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Opposite pages.. Is Norquist supporting Obama, yet?
Edited on Fri May-11-07 10:44 AM by Tellurian
I thought he'd be on his team by now. All the president's men are flocking to Obama..

Keep us informed! ya,hear!
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama, listen to Michelle. Then, listen to your heart.
Edited on Thu May-10-07 09:23 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
My suggestion, FWIW. MKJ
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. He DOES and he's OFF my list! (n/t)
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Obama is off my list now too
I just donated to Edwards. He needs $$$ to print and he needs it now.

Between this and his Iran remarks during the debate, I am sorry to say, no way Obama, no way.

:kick:
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Edwards will respond to the Iran question in a similar way if he is directly asked
Edited on Thu May-10-07 10:20 PM by ripple
There went your candidates. Off to Kucinich with you!
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. think what you like
to me, Obama is quickly becoming another Howard Dean. Lots of gloss and show for awhile there; the predicted winner in '04 if I remember right ...

Obama isn't going anywhere IMO. Sorry about that.

:kick:
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Of course he's not going anywhere
He's here to stay and win the nomination. :)
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. :-) - True - I like the fact Edwards actually is out there with positions already - but no one is
"my" candidate at this point.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
71. I never really liked Obama
He's a boring speaker (you can't debate the opposition when you stammer continually), and I don't like his positions on a variety of issues...not the least of which is the way his wife conducts her own business. (Sorry, it's nearly 3am and I'm too tired to search for and post links.)

No candidate is perfect, but Edwards is the best we have at this point.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. And of course, you have a reference to Obama's position. because the OP certainly does not.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. True - and advisers do not control anything any more than pollsters - but the folks he
has chosen to help develop positions do have established positions of their own - and that I thought was of interest.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. yep.
Edited on Thu May-10-07 10:19 PM by GreenArrow
He'll be as "gone as the wild goose in winter".
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. SS Privatization has been the downfall of Republican Party
Rahm Emmanuel and Howard Dean promised no privatization.

Our Last Candidates won promising NO Privatization of SS.


Obama had better come out with his position.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. He sure as hell better not! End of message.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Candidates often have to decide
Am I wiht Wall Street or Mainstreet??

This is a cruel realty candidates find out the hard way.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. What do you expect....
The guy gives one good speech and suddenly he is the rising star of he democratic party...

A new voice, Charisma, the future, hope...

Let's remember who he beat to make it into the Senate, Crazy Alan Keyes, that's who...

He didn't have to really offer any positions just stand up there and say I have hope, blah blah blah and by the way, I'm not Alan Keyes...

A new voice, Charisma, the future, hope...

So now he gets all this money and attention thrown at him and he decides to pick advisor's who are safe, have been vetted by the people making promises we will never know about...

I have never been all that keen on a guy who comes from nowhere and is embraced with such gusto with little or no scrutiny paid to his positions and what he stands for...

A new voice, Charisma, the future, hope...

And perhaps the most pertanant question of all, why is he waiting until after he is campaigning and raising money to develop positions on critical issues...

A new voice, Charisma, the future, hope...

I need more than that...

I demand more than that from the next democratic nominee for president...
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. oh please. anyone with a brain knows he does not support privatizing. this is crap.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Of course it is........
Insunuated crap at that....cause it is nothing Obama says.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
39. The post makes clear Obama has not stated a position - only his advisers have done so - and the
Edited on Fri May-11-07 07:46 AM by papau
post is a discussion of the positions taken in the past by the advisers he has chosen.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Considering how far before the election, I'll be damned if I judge
the policy of any candidate without reading the specific policy papers first. That's how the patriot Act and the IWR were passed; no one actually bothered to read the actual bill and intel information, and "gathered" what the information was saying based on headlines and soundbytes.


What I read in the New Yorker article is interesting however....

There are three things that Democratic political candidates tend to do when talking with constituents: they display an impressive grasp of the minutiae of their constituents’ problems, particularly money problems; they rouse indignation by explaining how those problems are caused by powerful groups getting rich on the backs of ordinary people; and they present well-worked-out policy proposals that, if passed, would solve the problems and put the powerful groups in their place.

Obama seldom does any of these things. He tends to underplay his knowledge, acting less informed than he is. He rarely accuses, preferring to talk about problems in the passive voice, as things that are amiss with us rather than as wrongs that have been perpetrated by them. And the solutions he offers generally sound small and local rather than deep-reaching and systemic.
<>
He doesn’t have the handicap that a lot of smart people have, which is that they come across as ‘You’re not smart enough to talk to me,’ ” George Haywood, a private investor and a friend of Obama’s, says. “Adlai Stevenson, another Illinois guy, had that—he came across as an egghead and it was off-putting to people. Barack is the opposite.” Probably one of the reasons for this is that Obama seems not to attach much value to cleverness as such. Even in law school, perhaps the place more than any other where sheer cleverness is prized and love of argument for its own sake is fundamental to the culture, he was not much interested in academic jousting.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar?currentPage=2


I've got nothing but time to make an informed jugment, thank you...and so Till then!

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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. All anyone has to do is look on his senate and 08 site as see this is a load of innuendo
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. This one of those types of threads that
some Edwards supporters cry about all of the time when it is a thread about their guy.

Funny how that works, hey? :shrug:
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I love the way they operate. whine and yet, are always rolling in slime
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
40. ? the New Yorker article referred to in th e start of the thread praises Obama and shows a
personality that is great, in my opinion. To refer to it is hardly a sliming.

As to Edwards - I do like the way he has actually put out a lot of detailed positions, but I really am not in anyones camp as yet (full disclosure - the wife likes Hillary - but again she is not in anyones camp as yet).

When the detailed policy comes out - if it comes out - I'll sit down and compare positions - in all areas but especially single payer national health - and come to a conclusion as to who I support.

Meanwhile there is only DU and discussion of whatever catches the eye.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think it's pretty hilarious that the guy has raised millions of dollars already
And yet here we are GUESSING at his policy positions?

Maybe it's just me, but I like to know what I'm paying for before I hand over my dough.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. So, Paupau, who do you support??? let me guess....
edwards
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
45. Good Guess - I do like folks out front with positions - I'm tired of writing Hillary demanding she
state her positions on issues (Obama is not the only one not yet public as to his detailed positions).

But I want single payer national health - and Edwards is not there - albeit he has it as an option in one circumstance in his plan.

Meanwhile all is speculation - which really all that this thread is about - speculation - putting forth the advisers known positions because they "might" be an indicator of the eventual Obama position - or not.

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IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
65. Well he HAS been running for what, 5 years? n/t
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. True - Obama is an unknown except as to war - and that move may reflect more the small step
conservative approach than an anri-war point of view. Indeed he says in the 2002 speech that he is not against all wars. But no matter as he gets a lot of points for not trusting Bush and the claim of intel that proved Bush's case.

Meanwhile we have tea leaves to look at as we parse generalities and platitudes and look at advisers and their prior positions on issues - and wonder if they are there for their expertize on the issue, or for their opinion being in sync with Obama's on that issue (and at this point this complaint is true for all - including DU's dreaded Hillary).

Meanwhile wonks like myself are left to speculate and speculate - not much fun :-(
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. Edwards supporters are mad because he is mired in 3rd
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
72. Apparently you haven't been reading the latest DU threads
When running against a REPUBLICAN candidate, Edwards does better than Hillary Clinton, and Obama is third.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. TRAITOR! WHORE! TRAITOR! WHORE!
I have GOT to get a macro for this.

--p!
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. lol
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. Can you give us Obama's position, rather than speculations?
Or do I have to think that Edwards and Clinton agree with all their advisors?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
44. http://www.barackobama.com/ has no stated position on Social Security - there was
a list of one paragraph "I believes" with links to 3 paragraph extensions by topic on separate web pages but that seems to have been removed.

Detail on issues is just not there.

And I agree - advisers positions do not equal the candidates positions - but they are interesting and it is interesting that he chose these particular advisers.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. He does and he'll lose any remote possibility he might have had to get my primary support
Talk about selling out the middle class.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Obama doesn't support privatization
read the OP again. It's all whisper and speculation that contradicts Obama's position on SS.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. Talk about your six(teen) degrees of separation n/t
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. This thread blows
I mean, the OP is a bunch of speculation, and then you have a bunch of Edwards people trashing on Obama.

Good job, papau. Excellent way to smear Obama.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Just came from another thread and Paupau is a clintonista. figures.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I know that...
They all fear Obama...
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #29
41. LOL - "clintonista" - how about "Edwardian"? - or whatever - the advisers caught my eye - and the
fact that they have known positions on issues.

In the absence of Obama detailed positions - said to be coming over the next few months I grant you, there is little else to go on beyond for policy wonks like myself other than where the advisers positions are unless one goes with generalities like "preserving the essence of Social Security".

Obama really does remind me of JFK - and JFK had little in the way of actual positions that was as far left as I was/am at the time - but he was much farther left than LBJ. And JFK's great communication skill seems to have shown up in Obama.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. When they can't defend; they attack..
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. You have to look at JFK and LBJ versus their time
they were progressive. Part of the problem is defining what left is.

On social issues, the landscape has changed enormously - JFK and LBJ intiated/passed the civil rights act, which is landmark legislation. Now, the leading edge issue is gay marriage. That was not even discussed in the 1960s.

On economic issues, you have the entire great society agenda. This built on FDR's work and is far more extensive than anything done by any one else. You have medicare and food stamps as new ideas. The Kerner report came out of that era and it spoke of the two Americas in 1968.

On foreign policy, Vietnam is of course the elephant in the room, but there was also the Peace Corps. The peace corps showed a willingness to interact at a very grassroots level to work to make the changes that people in underpriviledged countries wanted. There was a respect for the culture and opinions of those countries. There was also the alliance for progress where JFK sought to engage South America on a friendly peer basis. (Kerry's 2004 comments on our relationship with South America alluded to this.) We were near the beginning of the cold war, which led to a more militaristic tone than would otherwise have been the case.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Obama is no JFK or RFK..
so whats to compare?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. I was young back then and my taste ran to SDS - until I realized it was all talk & no
real results (SDS organized in Boston in the Spring of 63 with a flyer handout to all the college dorms in the area and a massive turnout - about a dozen plus a dozen onlookers plus the two flyer handouters over a two hour period - in the Boston Common on a warm, nice, spring day).

JFK was small step - much like Obama. It was LBJ that pushed on social/economic issues. But it was JFK that made the turn from small steps on race to supporting MLK. And I had seen the massive evil economic and social discrimination against blacks and had the end of that discrimination as my first priority - so Jack was the "left" that I supported - besides he didn't talk with a Texas twang - it was a Boston twang and I was used to that!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
33. Where is this thread copy stolen from?
Surely you didn't write it...and you didn't give the original author credit...

Whuzzzzuppp?

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. As noted in the original post much - not all - some was original with me - of the fact finding is
the credited source - the first link.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
34. Obama DOES NOT SUPPORT Bush's Social Security privatization plan!
Hey, nice try trying to trash Obama with a Carvillesque mosquito drive-by...but, of course, it's wrong...

Here's some info to enlighten you:

"A secure retirement is part of the basic respect owed to workers, Obama says.

"What we have to make real today is the idea that in this country, we value the labor of every American. That we're willing to respect that labor and reward it with a few basic guarantees—wages that can raise a family, health care if we get sick, a retirement that's dignified, working conditions that are safe.” (AFSCME National Convention Speech, 8/7/06)

He says he opposes privatizing Social Security:

Barack Obama: Opposes privatization. Favors "an equitable mix of benefit and tax changes" to extend the solvency of the program. Is open to lifting the amount of income that is taxed for Social Security. Backs a bipartisan effort to address the issue. (The State, 4/22/07)

Obama voted for a resolution amendment saying Congress should reject any Social Security plan requiring deep benefit cuts or a massive increase in debt. (S. Con. Res. 18, 3/15/05)"

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/issues_retirement.cfm
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I'll post this on a separate thread
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 02:39 AM
Original message
I will not support..................
I will not support any candidate that proposes to privatize Social Security. Either partially or not. There are several steps that can be taken to insure the solvency of Social Security.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 02:39 AM
Original message
I will not support..................
I will not support any candidate that proposes to privatize Social Security. Either partially or not. There are several steps that can be taken to insure the solvency of Social Security.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I will not support..................
I will not support any candidate that proposes to privatize Social Security. Either partially or not. There are several steps that can be taken to insure the solvency of Social Security.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #36
47. Obama wants to restructure and reform Social Security..so what does that mean?
For my own self. I don't want anyone to TOUCH Social Security..

I take Obamas minuscule statement as a 'shot over the bow'!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. And I'll go the safe route with Hillary's proposals since 1999... LEAVE SS ALONE!
"The President’s proposal for private accounts would substitute Social Security’s long-standing promise of guaranteed, lifetime, inflation-protected benefits for benefits that would be tied to the fluctuations of the stock market. I oppose his idea to divert money from the Social Security program to establish private accounts. There are several key reasons why replacing Social Security with a privatized system would be harmful for Americans. First, privatization leaves retirees vulnerable to stock market fluctuations or poor individual investment decisions. Second, the current Social Security system is progressive and assists women and families by indexing benefits to those who earn less. Women especially would be disadvantaged by a privatized system because they would have lower annual account deposits and would likely lose the advantage of spousal benefits. Third, fully one-third of payroll taxes are used to cover disabled workers and survivors. It is uncertain how the federal government could afford to pay these benefits if a percentage of the payroll tax is diverted into individual accounts. Finally, the projected cost of changing to a privatized system while continuing to pay current benefits is estimated to be several trillion dollars in just the first decade, an unfunded liability that we can not afford."

http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/seniors/


and also this endorsement by Seniors:


Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record.

Clinton scores 100% by the ARA on senior issues


"The mission of the Alliance for Retired Americans is to ensure social and economic justice and full civil rights for all citizens so that they may enjoy lives of dignity, personal and family fulfillment and security. The Alliance believes that all older and retired persons have a responsibility to strive to create a society that incorporates these goals and rights and that retirement provides them with opportunities to pursue new and expanded activities with their unions, civic organizations and their communities."


The following ratings are based on the votes the organization considered most important; the numbers reflect the percentage of time the representative voted the organization's preferred position.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
59. Except he supports social security restructuring and reforms..
but has never divulged any specifics!

If he going to tinker with Social Security, I don't want him in the White House! :grr:
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
46. Your first link produces no results....
The second one says nothing about Social Security.

So--what's the source of the thread title?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. The link has changed over time - the current one is below - goggle the article title if the link
Edited on Fri May-11-07 06:18 PM by papau
changes again. The New Yorker link is now http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar

As to Liebman being the advisor to Obama on Social Security

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=&sid=a7Zdp3HDltW4&refer=home


As to the Liebman being in favor of benefits now planned as part of Social Security being replaced by private accounts:

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ksgnews/KSGInsight/liebman.htm#int

Second, we agreed to add enough new revenue to maintain currently promised retirement income levels, but we devoted all of the new revenue to personal retirement accounts equal to 3 percent of payroll for every worker.

Third, we agreed that half of the revenue for the accounts would come from new worker contributions of 1.5 percent of payroll and half would come from diverting resources from the Social Security Trust Funds.

Fourth, we agreed to have personal retirement accounts in the plan, but the accounts were heavily regulated. So, in particular, they would be mandatory and when you get to retirement, you would be required to take out all your money in the form of an annuity a payment that lasts as long as you live. This ensures that people cannot squander all of their savings in the first few years of retirement.

Q: Why are personal retirement accounts such an important element to the Social Security system as we move forward?

Liebman: The benefit of having personal retirement accounts in the plan is that if we’re going to spread the burden across generations and start putting some extra revenue into the system now, we need to have a way to save that money so that it doesn’t get diverted to other purposes, as the current Social Security surplus often does. If you bring in new revenue but put all of the net new revenue into personal retirement accounts, then you have a way to spread the burden across even current workers in terms of making extra contributions today, but to do so in a way that you can really be sure is going to be contributing to people’s retirement incomes in the future.

============================================================

The above is BULLSHIT since the same "it doesn’t get diverted to other purposes" is available via the same method - investment in non-government stocks and bonds and real estate - by the simple procedure change of allowing the Social Security Trust funds to invest in non-government stocks and bonds and real estate instead of the current requirement that the trust invest in gov bonds because they are "safe".
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
51. Stop Spreading Lies
He does not support this.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Thats the point! He's a mystery.. No one knows what he supports.
except he's mentioned in his voting record he suggests Reforming and Restructuring Social Security.
Hillary does NOT support any of those options..
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. The caption under his NYer pic says it all!
"Obama campaigning in Iowa City. He has staked his candidacy on union-on bringing together two halves of America that are profoundly divided, and by associating himself with Lincoln-and he knows what both of those things mean.


Lincoln never told a LIE or embellished his stature and his origins for the benefit of readership.. Obama has been cited many times already for untrue embellishments in his autobiography.
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. and Hillary Supporters are spreading lies
to try to turn people against Obama. If it keeps up I will not vote for her in the General Election. It is one thing if it is a fact. However, this is not a fact and If I have to I will vote the other way.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
67. some introspection is in order
Edited on Fri May-11-07 07:49 PM by AtomicKitten
After posting this gem http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3260794 it seems rather disingenuous for you to admonish people for spreading lies. Particularly RW smears.

Don't lump supporters of candidates together to make it easier for you to kick them to the curb. There are some of us here that want the truth, are not into partisan politics during election time, and are fully behind a blue tsunami in 2008. We can do better than this here.

This Obama disinformation has been thoroughly debunked here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3260012&mesg_id=3260012

Go Dems.
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IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
53. Osama?
2nd main paragraph:

Obama has described himself as a small step change person, and the New Yorker Magazine's 11 page article http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_... made clear that he is a small step conservative, and Osama’s advisers on policy have policy positions which obviously do indicate the direction of his thinking. But again, it is the candidate that makes the final decision - and for all we know he made in choosing some of these folks in his brain trust because he simply wants to hear the other side to, or alternatives to, the progressive point of view.
--------------

I've seen all I need to see, the whole Osama/Obama slip-up could have been caught, the B and S aren't anywhere near each other.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Thanks for noticing that
What a cheap shot.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. The New Yorker Article is a love note to Obama. Sorry about the bad spelling-which changes nada.
Edited on Fri May-11-07 06:29 PM by papau
n/t
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IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Bad spelling?
Is the B and the S that close together on the keyboard? The only B-S mess up I see here is a BS Osama reference.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. A love note? Sheesh...sounds like you are a scorned lover...
I read the article. It's great. I also have run into people that were not sure about Obama as a candidate who now really like him.

Is it a love note? No. It's a portrait of a decent human being who also just so happens to be running for President.


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primative1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. Good Find ...
I wonder how common that is becoming; no way that was an accident.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
70. no, he won't
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
73. oops!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Obama clearly and unambiguously said he was against private accounts
on Stephanopolis's This Week.

Why are you kicking a week old thread - that is now completely discredited? You would be the first to scream if someone did this on a negative Hillary thread.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
75. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
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