I used to think that Clinton's affair with Monica didn't matter.

[dkf]

Now that I am seriously thinking about getting married and having kids I have completely reversed my decision.

Bill Clinton did this country great harm. If he makes it ok for Presidents to be cheaters it would be a terrible terrible thing.

I wish Sen. Kerry had said that he has been sexually faithful to his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry for the entire duration of their marriage. I wish he had said he never ever cheated on her. I wish he had said that it is important for a man to be faithful to his wife and that he holds his wedding vows very dear. And I wish he meant every one of these words.

These are the words I expect from my husband and this is the way I expect to live my life. How can I expect less from my President?

Call me naive, but from what I have seen, John Edwards, Howard Dean and Wesley Clark can make these claims (even Joe Lieberman!!). They should be President, not someone who is dancing around this issue.

[einniv]

1. If you have some proof that Kerry cheated on his wife I would

like to hear it.
Otherwise , I don't understand what you are getting hysterical about.

[Padraig18]

3. I'd like to hear a plain, non-nuanced denial from Sen. Kerry.

I haven't yet, and adultery IS an issue with the electorate, like it or not.

[einniv]

14. Yes the electorate cares

if there is some proof of it. Which there isn't.
Stop aiding the GOP/Drudge in their rumor mongering campaign.


On a seprate note (not directed at you per se) Sheesh. People whine about "sheeple" here so much and then just baaa baaaa baaa at anything and everything. I bet even Drudge underesitmated how easy it would be to spread , and how much the "too sharp for the sheeple" inter-dems would help him.
Too funny.

[Padraig18]

18. I'm not aiding the GOP.

I resent the implication. If there is nothing to it, then let Sen. Kerry issue a non-nuanced denial, e.g., 'It's a goddamned LIE!'.

I haven't heard that yet. Have you?

[einniv]

22. I haven't heard any official denial of the fact that Mr. Kerry

is a former 'Bonesman' and his real purpose in seeking the presidency is to be a fall back plan for Bush in case he gets the boot.
You know bonesmen helping bonesmen. See he is in on the whole thing.
And I have yet to hear him deny it strongly!! It must be true!!!

PS BTW, have you stopped beating your wife/husband/significant other?

[Padraig18]

25. Straw man.

It's not a leading question, in the first place.

[library_max]

56. One of LBJ's favorite stories

was about a popular Texas sheriff running for reelection. His opponents had been trying unsuccessfully to think of a good campaign issue to use against him. Finally one man suggested spreading 'a rumor that he fucks pigs.' Another protested, 'You know he doesn't do that.' 'I know,' said the first man, 'I just want to make the son of a bitch deny it.'"

[Cheswick2.0]

31. I don't think the poster seemed hysterical

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

2. I wish you and your spouse the best --

-- but I think your assertion that Clinton damaged this country is bullshit.

[Skittles]

4. YES

what WAS damaging to the country was the relentless 70 million dollar Clinton witch hunt. Imagine what ELSE they could have been investigating - like INTELLIGENCE and NATIONAL SECURITY.

[Ninga]

7. Clinton damaged this country by allowing

his bad judgement about a private matter become fodder for the GOP.

All was lost because Clinton was not able to advance his agenda, and that is what hurt the country.

[bowens43]

bullshit.

It was the republican smear machine that harmed this nation. Bush Sr was involved in an affair the entire time he was in office , it didn't make the papers, not because it wasn't known but because it was irrelevant. The same can said for many leaders from many nations. Believe it or not, powerful , wealthy men often have affairs. It has always been this way and always will be this way.

[virtualobserver]

15. without monica......

Gore wins by 7 million, not 700,000 votes.

[bowens43]

23. evidence?

No? Didn't think so. Gore lost because he chose to distance himself from Clinton and because he was a piss poor campaigner.

[virtualobserver]

45. do you want "evidence" from the alternate universe....

where Clinton showed restraint.

Clinton was irresponsible and we all paid the price.

Gore should not have had to deal with that. Clinton misled him as well.

[saltpoint]

26. Pure speculation. Here's some more speculation:

Gore LOST votes by selecting Lieberman, an insufferable moralist.

[charlie]

27. And he chose the enervating Smokeless Joe

because?...

[saltpoint]

39. --because he wanted to milk the moralist vote.

It didn't work.

[charlie]

53. And he felt the need to court their vote

because of Clinton.

Right out of the box, Clinton was hounded and harassed like no president before or since -- Whitewater, Travel Office, Craig Livingstone, FBI files, Troopergate, Vince Foster, Paula Jones. Knowing full well that the jihad Republicans would gut him if they could, he had that silly dalliance with Lewinsky. He opted for blowjobs well aware of the dangers to himself, his party, and the country.

I could give a rat's ass whether he or anyone has midnight orgies in the Oval Office, but I don't get to decide if those activities piss off enough of the electorate to damage the fortunes of the Democratic party. I'm pretty much an absolutist when it comes to defense of free speech, but I'd whack Clinton over the head if he thought it'd be fun to wear a "Republicans Suck" T-shirt to state functions. When Clinton fired cruise missiles into the Sudan, his credibility was so damaged the air was rife with snickerings of "wag the dog." He diminished his own effectiveness and left Gore nervous about fully embracing the legacy he was part of. It was a goddamn shame. And avoidable.

[mojo2004]

17. It may not have damaged the country....

but it certainly did cripple his Presidency. The last years in office was nothing but Monica-gate.

[saltpoint]

41. Clinton's Health Care defeat came long --

-- before the Lewinsky story broke. So did the uproar over his gays-in-the-military. He didn't get THAT much done prior to the Lewinsky affair.

[polpilot]

37. Having a morally bankrupt head of any country is NOT bullshit. It's

embarrassing. Sexual predation is hardly bullshit either.

Dean '04

[saltpoint]

48. The assertion that Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky --

-- damaged the country is bullshit. It may have damaged his marriage, but the rest of us got up the next morning and fulfilled our citizenry duties about the same as we did the day before.

Sexual predation is not relevant here. Your charge is legally incorrect. Monica Lewinsky was a consenting, legal adult and she was as complicit in the affair as the president. Takes 2 to tango.

"Morally bankrupt" is strong talk against anyone, president or peasant. If you can say that to Mr. Clinton's face, go ahead. He might very well punch your lights out, though.

[ShimokitaJer]

5. I have to disagree

Clinton may have damaged his marriage and his relationship to his wife, child, and friends. What damaged the country was the witchhunt that made it into a national issue. I blame Starr and the Republican smear machine for the entire debacle. Clinton being a bad husband did not make him a bad leader.

[polpilot]

42. Not 'bad husband' but 'bad example' for the world, for the U.S., and an

embarrassment to the citizens. His entire relationship with Monica was disingenuous and lecherous. Wouldn't matter if he were the president or the janitor his behavior was predatory.

[saltpoint]

52. Nope. Clinton was not predatory.

Monica Lewinsky was exactly half of that affair. There are very liberated women who do not use traditional wiles and there are groupie women who will blow anything longer than it is wide.

Monica Lewinsky was a legal adult and if she didn't want to blow a powerful man she could have joined a bowling league.

[meegbear]

6. A new GOP meme!

I'll be looking for the TV ads in the fall

[progressivebydesign]

8. I have to agree with you...

As a married woman, I detested what Clinton did. I think he tarnished Al Gore and the Democrats through his poor judgement. Yes, the republicans and Richard Scaife Mellond dragged him through the mud, but he was down there in the mud to begin with.

Having said that.. I still think Clinton did an amazing job as President and world leader. It's unfortunate that men in power cannot be intelligent enough to realize that young girls will always throw themselves at men in power, it's not because the men are suddenly more attractive or funny or charming, they're just more powerful. Why men would throw away everything for sex is beyond me. Some self-control and respect for marriage vows are a damn good quality to have in a candidate.

[TheDebbieDee]

29. I'm amazed at what Clinton could have accomplished.........

if he had not been saddled with MonicaGate for the last 2 years of the second term.

As it was, I agree with you most heartily - President Clinton got a lot done in his 8 years, considering he was hampered with a Repug majority congress.

[JI7]

9. Presidents have been cheaters long before Clinton

and kerry doesn't have to talk about his sex life concerning him and his wife to the public. and i haven't seen any of the other candidates say they have never cheated on their wife.

[progressivebydesign]

13. I think America could handle an "affair"..

.. but the relationship with a barely out of her teens girl just makes them queasy. The age thing in some of these relationships is what makes it harder to take. Voters have daughters.

[Lindacooks]

10. You're wrong

and I've been married to the same man for 23 years, so I know more about marriage than you do.

President Clinton's infidelity was his business, Hilary Clinton's business, PERIOD. The damage that was done was the witchhunt the right went on, spending ungodly sums of money on a private matter. Which really shouldn't surprise anybody, because Repukes think that every private matter is their business.

Repukes absolutely blew some of the best times this country will ever have, 'fiddling while Rome burned', wasting money and time on this nonissue when we could have been curing diseases, strengthening the infrastructure of the country, and working on controlling terrorism with that $70,000,000. Republicans did this country 'great harm'.

[Tinoire]

54. I used to believe that but no longer do

I used to believe that but no longer do

It IS our business after what we went through and I will NOT go through it again.

The fact of life is that it does matter a great deal to

1. a great deal of people who value marital fidelity and
2. people who do not like the hyposcrisy on the marriage issue while denying others their right to marry.

Please see this thread. It helped me see something differently about this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=323750

[SoFlaJets]

11. Follow your own heart

and don't judge what others have done-like the republicans do.Newt was banging them 2 At a time so was Henry Hyde the same people who stood up with such indignation against Clinton.I want my politicians to be good politicians and I don't care what they do in their personal lives if it doesn't directly impact me.Hey GWB is the biggest liar I have ever seen bigger than Nixon and Clinton combined."What I said Tim..."Bush Sunday on MTP

[MoonRiver]

12. There's no proof to the rumor, and it's between Kerry and his wife.

Clinton did the country NO harm with his Monica Lewinsky dalliance. The maniacal Pukes who used it to distract a sitting president from the business of governing our country are the guilty ones. Maybe some Dems need to think about switching to the party of hypocritical puritanism, aka the Republican Party.

[virtualobserver]

19. clinton did damage the country...

He said on national tv that he didn't have "sexual relations" with her.

What he should have said is that his private life was none of their business.

[bowens43]

24. The blame lies with the republican inquisitors.

No harm was done to the country. In fact most of the world was laughing at the repugs for making such a big deal out of an affair.

[virtualobserver]

36. clinton's parsing of words damaged his credibility

just as Bush's lies have damaged his.

I have no interest in defending lies.

I just hope that Kerry is telling the truth.

[TheDebbieDee]

16. "Call me naive,"..........

Okay, you're naive :0)

[bowens43]

20. Clinton did NOT do this country great harm.

What happened should have been between him, Monica and Hillary. It wasn't my business , it wasn't your business and it wasn't the medias business. The Republican party did the country a great harm by plastering a mans personal life all over every paper and television.
What part of 'no' don't you understand. You think Clark should lend credence to this smear by getting down on his knees and groveling?

[JackRiddler]

21. "dancing around this issue"

WHAT ISSUE?

WHO CARES WHO HAS SEX WITH KERRY?!

Why should anyone have to dance around it? It's NOBODY'S business!

What is the relevance of sexual affairs to the actual office and decisions of the Presidency?

Would you rather have a progressive philanderer or a faithful fascist?

The hilarity is that creative and vital people generally are exactly the ones likely to land in this soup.

Unbelievable!

Grow up!

[sybylla]

28. Disagree

That's like saying O.J. Simpson has make it look okay for athletes to kill their wives. Do you think we are all sheeple?

For the pukes, personal responsibility means exposing everyone's foibles publically. They want the equivallent of everyone standing up in church and confessing their sins to the congregation before they flagellate and ask for forgiveness - which they will never give because they believe once you have commited a sin you should be forever punished. Their definition of personal reponsibility is sick.

Clinton was responsible to his family only for his actions in having affairs as long as his affairs didn't compromise his ability to do his job. If Hilary and Chelsea had found a way to cope with it all, then more power to them. The same is true, in my book, for all politicians and their families, left or right. Personally, I have a problem with extra marital affairs and the people who perpetrate them. But a politician's personal life, with few exceptions, isn't my business. I'm far more concerned with how he or she acts in his professional life. That's what I pay them to do. If they can act professionally, ethically, and with thoughtful consideration in the job I pay them to do, great.

And I've been married for nearly 22 years.

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[nomaco-10]

32. Anyone that saw the terrible pain in ...

Hillary's eyes and poor Chelsea leaving school to stand between them when they boarded the plane for Martha's Vineyard had to know how devastating this kind of betrayal is to a family. It was sad and to have to live it so publicly must have been horrific.
If it is true about Kerry, I think the POTUS should be the least of his worries. I would get myself and my wife out of the scrutiny of the public eye and work it out or get a divorce. I don't know anything about Tereasa Kerry, but if I had more money than god and a healthy dose of self esteem, I'd be gone in a heartbeat IF the story (stories) are true.

[lancdem]

33. Cheating on one's spouse is bad, I agree

But you are aware Clinton was not the first president to be unfaithful to his wife. He didn't invent it, or make it acceptable. In fact, he never said it was OK. However, the most harm done to this country was by Ken Starr and the Repubs who spent a fortune pursuing a president's private life for political reasons. I have no idea what Kerry did. But just because he didn't make a blanket statement about being faithful to his wife doesn't mean he hasn't been.

[1monster]

34. Some of our best Presidents have cheated on their wives...

Would you scratch them all from our history on that basis alone?

(Of course, some of our worst Presidents have cheated on their wives too... Competency in government doesn't seem to be a factor in this area.)

[amazona]

47. as far as I know ALL have cheated on their wives

The only possible exception is Nixon and who knows maybe something will come out in that area one day. It started with George Washington.

If people want to have such high standards that no one is ever good enough, I don't know what to tell them because they are certainly not going to be very effective in making any changes in the real world.

[library_max]

35. You've got to be kidding me.

Clinton made it okay for Presidents to be cheaters? How about Thomas Jefferson, Harding, FDR, JFK? And those are only the most famous and well-documented cases. More info available here http://us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/towncry/sex.html

[nomaco-10]

40. They didn't have the internet, 24/7 cable news.....

in fact they didn't even have TV til JFK on your list, but those who knew him said if he had lived and ran for another term they were sure it would have come out.
It's a whole different ballgame in politics now. The public will scoff at some things and other things are still a big deal. When you start mentioning marital infidelity it strikes a nerve for every cheated on, traded in for a younger model, ex wife and jilted lover in the country and I can assure you that's alot of people, many of whom are registered voters.

[amazona]

38. this is very unrealistic

* has also cheated on Laura. I realize that he is incapable now. Do you think it is a good thing for a world leader to be so damaged by drugs or alcohol that he is impotent?

All men (and most if not all women) who are given the opportunity and who are in well enough health to enjoy normal amounts of sexual hormones will "cheat" at some point, if you must call it that. If you know better than God and Nature, and you feel that our bodies should have been designed another way, that's fine, but it's very unrealistic and you will continually be disappointed because you are not going to find a mentally HEALTHY leader who meets your standards.

I don't want an impotent, disturbed man in a position of leadership. I expect my President to be a man of normal function whose mind will not be disturbed by his lack of ability to perform in the bedroom. If that means that sometimes my President enjoys a dalliance with a woman not his wife, good for him. Of course I expect him to respect his wife and to conceal these dalliances where he can. It would be cruel to flaunt such behavior in your partner's face. It's a tough balancing act, being real about the fact that we are animals and not hurting the people we love.

But the answer is sure as hell NOT to put an impotent alcohol-damaged sociopath in a position of power.

When you eliminate men who have had contacts with women not their wives from the pool of candidates, you have just eliminated all healthy normal heterosexual males. Is that really what you intend? You would rather an impotent madman (who once cheated on his wife as well, don't forget -- but, oh, that's OK because he's a Republican and they're allowed to do drugs and orgies) be in charge than a man with a normal brain and body?

I don't get it sometimes. It really makes me see Bartcop's point when he writes things like, "Why am in a party where people try to shoot themselves in the foot?"

I'm quite confident that every candidate for President, Republican, Democrat, or other, has cheated on his partner. I'm confident that every Senator, every CEO, every middle-aged person in a position of power has done it. It just comes with the territory. Only complete and total nothings NEVER get hit on and NEVER slip -- and, hell, even they do. We need to be adults. Howard Dean in particular spends quite a bit of time having a separate life from his wife. It is unrealistic to assume that he's never had an affair. Why are you setting yourself up for a disappointment on an issue this trivial?

[Padraig18]

44. "I'm quite confident that every candidate for President, Republican...."

I'm noty confident of that fact at all. In fact, I am confident that they have NOT.

[nomaco-10]

46. I expect nothing short of ...

monogamy and loyalty from a spouse. I don't care to carry a beat to that drummer that says, so what no big deal, everybody's doing it. I feel sad for people who go thru life with such low expectations for themseles and the people they love.

[amazona]

50. well i fell sorry for kids who get hurt by these expectations

I see couples split up all the time because of these unrealistic expectations, and it's the kids who get hurt. We try to live by our ideals but if we are going to get totally bent out of shape by normal human biology I would suggest it is better to avoid marriage and reproduction.

Why is it the Europeans can be so much more mature about this than Americans?

It's a lovely ideal to go through one's life faithful only to one person...on second thought, it isn't that lovely, actually. It's rather depressing. But to each his own.

[corporatewhore]

43. The only person this should matter to is Theresea!if you want to go after

him go after him on the issues like
NAFTA/WTO/GATT
PATRIOT ACT
IWR......

[pezcore64]

49. well

i dont like it politicians or anyone in the lime light being 'cheaters'. Definitely sends the wrong msg to the youth of this country, who are already in deperate times if you ask me. They already regard sex as a toy and things like sex scandles with politicians only re-enforce their behavoir. I hate how people just play and toy with sex and love like its nothing. ACK! Sheesh people, have a lil respect for yourself!
So while I dont think its really our business what they do n their private life, i guess think they should hold themselves to higher standards i suppose.

[amazona]

51. hmm well sex is a toy

Isn't it? 99.9 percent of sex is for pleasure, not for procreation, or we'd be even more knee-deep in overpopulation than we already are.

If young people today actually do enjoy sex and get pleasure out of it, then they're light years ahead of what so many people had to go through even as recently as the 1950s and 1960s. Read some memoirs from the 1960s sometime -- which we think of as a fairly sexual open time -- and you'll be shocked at the huge numbers of women who weren't getting orgasms or satisfaction. No one was better off when sex was a misery instead of a joy. And, guess what, powerful men had just as many affairs, if not more of them.

Invading other countries and stealing their oil is immoral.

Why can't we focus on what's real?

[gottaB]

55. Is this your expected wedding vow?

"I do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

[Mountainman]

57. There have always been cheating presidents

The thing about Clinton, the press did not treat him like they treated Roosevelt and Kennedy and all the others before them.

[littlejoe]

58. To the American people his affair didn't matter. His lying did.

[NashVegas]

59. The Affair Was Not the Problem

The problem was in denying it.

If Clinton had fessed up from the beginning, the only place the Lewinsky affair would ever have gone was the tabloids. Maybe a week's worth of speculation on the cable news, and then gone. GONE.