More info on Edwards' financial disclosure

[mnhtnbb]

Edwards, a former North Carolina senator, reported earning $479,512 as a senior adviser to Fortress Investment Group LLC last year.

<snip>

While campaigning in Iowa on Tuesday, Edwards defended his work for the hedge fund.

"If you look at what I've done since the last election, it is true that I did consulting work for a hedge fund part time," Edwards told The Associated Press. "It's also true that I started a poverty center at the University of North Carolina, that I led a minimum wage initiative in six states -- all successful -- that I started a college-for-everyone program for poor communities in Eastern North Carolina, that I helped organize thousands of workers into unions, that I did humanitarian work in Africa."

<snip>

Edwards earned $333,334 in royalties from his book on boyhood homes that was published by HarperCollins. He donated the money to charity. And he earned $40,000 from his position as director of UNC's Center on Poverty Work and Opportunity. The salary was provided by private funds, according to university officials.

He also earned $415,000 in speaking fees, mainly to universities. He typically charged $32,000 to $40,000 per speech.

<snip>

The Edwards campaign said the candidate's assets were calculated as worth $29.5 million.



http://www.newsobserver.com/print/thursday/city_state/story/574988.html

[William769]

1. Good for him!

He's earned it.

[Virginia Dare]

2. He actually works for a living..

unlike some other "elected" officials we know.

[Egnever]

13. please

I wouldnt call that work. Try slinging a shovel for a few days and come back and tell me how hard he works.

[Virginia Dare]

19. There are no presidential candidates slinging shovels..

and there never will be (excepting of course our current "president" whose hobby is clearing brush). I certainly wasn't suggesting that he toils away with sweated brows..:eyes:

[venable]

28. If you don't think Edwards works hard, you're not paying close enough attention

He was all over the country, completely out of the media eye, for two years marching in union and minimum wage causes.

Zero publicity, and he never faltered, never stopped.

I've slung shovels and so has Edwards. The fact that he can do more marching and speaking is a good thing for him and for the country.

[Clark2008]

39. He works? Where?

Jetting around the country to dismiss his entire voting record as a senator?

Please.

[wyldwolf]

3. Fortress Investment Group - offshore accounts.

[Catchawave]

4. Is that illegal ?

There's more to Fortress than your zing :D Though Rove just called to thank you.

[wyldwolf]

8. no, but Edwards wanted them to be

""Offshore loopholes for companies avoiding taxes ought to be closed.” When the vice president was CEO of Halliburton, they took advantage of every offshore loophole available. They had multiple offshore companies that were avoiding taxes. Those are the kind of things that ought to be closed. They ought to be closed. They ought to be closed for anybody. They ought to be closed whether they're personal, and they ought to be closed whether they apply to a corporation.”"

And Rove can thank TPM:

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/may/17/video_edwards_decrying_off_shore_tax_havens_in_2004

[KingofNewOrleans]

12. So, what's the issue?

Edwards wants a legal loophole closed because it's provides a means for companies and rich individuals to defer (or avoid) paying taxes. Closing loopholes is part of the government's job. Regulators and the government have to be constantly plugging loopholes because as soon as you close one, the market looks for another. Government and regulators haven't been doing the job and Edwards wants them to do the job if he's President.

[IA_Seth]

30. Am I missing something?

Maybe I'm not looking at it correctly, but the way I see it is that on the one hand Edwards is saying tha this type of company shouldn't be allowed to provide loopholes to avoid paying taxes...and yet Edwards worked for the company that provides a loophole to avoid paying taxes.

If that ain't hypocrisy, what the hell is? I have to be missing something. Tell me I am missing something.

[KingofNewOrleans]

33. He's saying it's a legal loophole that should

be closed. What don't you understand. If you think companies, especially those competing for investor dollars, should put themselves at a fiscal disadvantage vis-a-vis their competitors, out of the goodness of their hearts, then you're living in la-la land.

Let's make income taxes voluntary too while you're at it.

[IA_Seth]

34. Uh...

"earning $479,512 as a senior adviser to Fortress Investment Group LLC last year"

He earned money while advising a company that provided a service he said shouldn't be allowed.

Thats not hypocrisy? Look, yeah it was legal, but I guess I'd prefer that my leaders not act against their beliefs because its an easy way to save some dough. IF he truly believed what he said about wanting the loopholes closed, he probably shouldnt have worked for them.

I could probably get a title-loan business up and going, charging over 60% interest on the loans, and I could do so legally and make some money...but I'll be damned before I do it. Why? Because it is against my beliefs.

[KingofNewOrleans]

35. It certainly would have cut down his options

for working in the hedge fund industry. Probably cut his options to zero. Fortress only eliminated the loophole because it went public, the first hedge fund to do so (an interesting experiment btw)

Taking legal tax loopholes is not the same thing as loansharking, which should be illegal too. In your example you are preying on the weaker members of society. With tax law your impact is on the government, which should not be viewed as a weak member of society.

I personally utilize all tax deductions available to me whether I think they are bad policy or not (and I think a good argument can be made that making home loan interest tax deductable is bad policy and contributes to the the current problems with subprime lending). And I still pay what taxes are owed despite the fact I hate so much of my tax dollars going to the military. I hate it enough that I work for a government that will be more responsible with how it uses our money and will actually have a fairer tax system by closing such loopholes that benefit the rich only.


Honestly, if you were rich, would you pay more taxes to George W. Bush than you legally had too?


Really this criticism of Edwards is much like criticism of Al Gore using energy. (And I'd be willing to bet that Al Gore's financial empire makes Edward's hedge fund involvement look like Candy Land).

Also, and bottom line, Edwards wants the loophole closed, the Republicans don't.

[IA_Seth]

36. We can agree to disagree then.

I dont see this as Edwards doing what he had to do... I see this as Edwards working for an industry that in essence provided the type of tax loopholes that he doesn't believe should be legal.

My example is not 'loansharking', unfortunately the title loan business is alive and kickin, and the interest rates are probably a lot higher on average than what I quoted. Its legal, so why not do it, right? I mean, I could make a lot of money and who doesnt like that?

Well I wouldn't, because to me it is against what I believe, and my actions and my beliefs are usually in sync.

[karynnj]

37. I agree with Seth

He was on record in 2004 with this being wrong. He did not have to work for a hedge fund at all - so the argument that all hedge fnds do it is bogus.

He is personally benefitting from something he thinks is wrong - though it is of course perfectly legal. If he thinks it wrong, he shouldn't do it.

[Andrew_Lindsey]

38. I agree with both of you.

There is no argument here that this is illegal, and I don't believe any of us are saying that.

But Edwards is profiting from something he thinks is wrong, something he believes should be stopped, and THAT, to me anyway, is another lapse in judgment.

[mnhtnbb]

9. From the article:

The Edwards campaign has noted that Fortress had ended its practice of letting its managing partners defer their U.S. income taxes by reinvesting profits in the offshore funds.

Let's not forget that Chelsea Clinton is a full-time employee of
"Avenue Capital, a $12 billion New York-based hedge fund run by Marc Lasry, a longtime Clinton donor."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18654658/

[Cameron27]

10. Fortress ended their practice

of providing off-shore tax shelters for their very wealthy clients around the time Edwards left the company.

"Bedingfield (Edwards spokeswoman) said Fortress recently ended its practice of letting managing partners defer their U.S. income taxes by reinvesting profits in the offshore funds. The firm made that change when it went public late last year around the time Edwards ended his consulting arrangement."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/22/AR2007042201339.html

If Chelsea Clinton decides to run for president, I'll take her hedge fund connection into consideration too.

[Cameron27]

5. Here's more info:

In addition, Edwards sold millions of dollars worth of such blue-chip stocks as General Electric, Intel, Apple Computer, Microsoft, Citigroup and Schlumberger Ltd., and transferred his gains to various Fortress funds.

snip: Edwards campaign spokesman Eric Schultz disclosed that John and Elizabeth Edwards had $29 million in investment assets, not counting their home.

They earned $5.9 million from their investments, and an additional $1.27 million mostly from Fortress and from Edwards' speeches, primarily at universities. Edwards' speaking fees ranged from $12,000 for an appearance at Gonzaga University School of Law to $44,000 for appearing at UC Davis.



http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-wealth17may17,0,3514903.story?coll=la-home-center

[Dhalgren]

6. I have no problem with Edward's finances. If I have a problem with

any candidate it will be regarding ideas, positions, ideology, honesty, and commitment to the Constitution - not how much money they earn or how big their house is or how much they spend on clothes, haircuts, or bath products. In a nation where the wealthy are eating us alive, we will never have a politician run for President who isn't wealthy in his/her own right or is funded by large groups of the wealthy. It is currently a non-issue.

[Clark2008]

41. OK - and that's a good belief to have.

So, do you distrust Edwards then because he supported:

* The IWR (and co-sponsored it)
* The PATRIOT Act (and helped write it)
* No Child Left Behind
* Allowing banks to enter the predatory lending fold (against poor people - oh, he sponsored this one, too)

Personally, I can see the hypocricy in his actions, but I can understand your point. What I can't understand is how come Edwards gets such a pass on his record as a senator when he fell on the side of the Republican on nearly every major issue. And now? He tries to say "oops" and "sorry" and dismiss his own voting record?

That's what bothers me.

[Andrew_Lindsey]

7. Part-time?

I wish my part-time gig paid as much (my 2nd job).

Too bad I live in the "other" America.

[Egnever]

11. heh

that made me giggle.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

14. Should progressives take a vow of poverty?

Unfortunately, presidential politics is limited to rich people as these financial disclosures show. Edwards does live in the other America. So do the rest of the candidates.

[Egnever]

15. No they shouldnt.

However they need to be very carefull when making poverty their headline issue as well as a two americas theme. Its a very tight rope to walk and one I think he will have trouble with throughout his campaign.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

16. FDR and LBJ were very wealthy too

They seemed to do a few things for the poor. ;)

[Cameron27]

17. There's a hell of a lot more

scrutiny today than there were in the days of FDR and LBJ. I doubt that FDR could get elected today with his health problems posted all over the internetz.

[Andrew_Lindsey]

32. And Edwards is no FDR or LBJ. n/t

[1932]

49. Actually, I think he is.

Obviously FDR and LBJ weren't FDR and LBJ BEFORE they became president.

But, anyway, I think there are many many indicators that JRE could exceed FDR and LBJ if he becomes president and 50 years from now short-sighted DU'ers will be saying some future bright prospect is "no JRE".

[IA_Seth]

31. No vows necessary..

Just don't shit on my lawn and tell me your fertilizing.

Edwards can talk til he's blue in the face about how he understands poverty, but he can't, he simply can't know what it is like to struggle to feed your family, to worry about how you are going to fix your car, pay your rent, and buy formula for your newborn.

I am not asking for a vow of poverty, but to characterize this job as 'part time' when he made more money than most people make in years...well that kind of rubs people like me the wrong way.

I know I am not alone. Discount my feelings all you want, but I know I am not alone.

[smalll]

18. Well, I need to apologize -

I started a thread over the weekend, after noticing a report stating that some candidates, including Edwards, we're NOT going to release full financial information in which I speculated that Edwards was NOT going to tell us how much he made at the hedge fund. He has told us, so I was wrong. Sorry Edwards, and sorry DU!

[elizm]

21. Edwards is still not releasing his tax returns....

He only filed the FEC report which gives only general estimates of net worth. Edwards released his tax returns in 2004 but not this year. Obama is the only candidate who has, even though it has been a 35 year tradition of candidates doing so. Doesn't it make you wonder??

[mnhtnbb]

23. You can't tell net worth from tax returns.

In 2004 Edwards held office as a NC Senator. Now, he's running as a private citizen.

[elizm]

25. He is a Presidential Candidate....Private Citizen has nothing to do with it...

"It's very unusual," said Mary Boyle of the good government group Common Cause. "For the past almost 35 years, it has been tradition most certainly in the White House as well as almost every presidential candidate to disclose their tax returns -- and for some reason we're not seeing it this year."

All the other campaigns pointed ABC News to the forms they're filling out for the Federal Election Commission and, for some of them, the U.S. Senate , which are due today. But these documents provide only general estimates of net worth.

"They are quite vague," Boyle said. "It's not a really detailed financial picture that you get."

http://news.aol.com/elections/president/story/_a/front-runners-refuse-release-of-tax/20070515145909990002?ncid=NWS00010000000001Updated:2007-05-16

[jcrew2001]

20. The president should have a strong Economic Knowledge and growth industries

to help lead America and stabilize the economy and help stimulate wealth in the lower class.

[Buck Rabbit]

22. Agreed and a 10% discount on asset management services for the

poor. Some of the "lower class" do a really poor job of portfolio management.

I tell my poor friends that if they aren't going to properly study the markets they should just put their short term investment funds in a hedge fund or else just buy a few shares of Berkshire Hathaway and ride Warren Buffet's coat tails.

[mnhtnbb]

24. Gosh, your 'poor' friends must be well off . Berkshire Hathaway

closed at $108,600. today--for one share.

Did you forget the sarcasm smiley?

[jcrew2001]

27. Its important to have an IRA if you can afford it

and buy and home and build equity - again making sure that you can cover the monthly payments.

The most important IMO is subsidizing college tuition for everyone.

[mnhtnbb]

26. And another article

"The disclosure forms do not provide a precise accounting of the candidates' assets and investment income, requiring only that filers list those amounts in ranges. However, the Edwards campaign supplemented its reports with more detail, including the value of the couple's total assets."

http://news.aol.com/elections/president/story/_a/giuliani-and-edwards-report-earnings/20070516194709990001?cid=435

What are you looking for in tax returns that isn't disclosed?

Elizabeth's income from book sales?

Deductions for old clothes? (That got Bill Clinton into hot water years ago)

Sales of investment holdings? Income from specific investments?

Information about tax shelters, such as trusts?

The campaign has released net worth numbers--which you won't find
on a tax return. A tax return won't tell you what investments are currently
held.

Personally, it doesn't bother me that Edwards isn't releasing his tax return.

Bush/Cheney have been releasing their tax returns since 2000. What good has that done?

[RockLacrosse20]

29. C'mon what'd u expect?

C'mon guys, i think by this point, we've learned the Golden Rule of life: "The person with the gold makes the rules", and this applies to society on the large, as those who have any considerable social and political power in this capitalistic world minus the Pope have vast amounts of money, and John Edwards is no expection. This does not make Edwards ineligible to help the poor, but what sounds like downright BS is his justification of his hedge fund work, which he did "to help learn the differences between the rich and the poor". OK then why take your 500k for what, a CONSULTING JOB aka DOING NOTHING!!!! I've always thought this guy was a sleaze, as he wholeheartedly, during campaign '04 justified his vote for the War in Iraq, and then after he and Kerry lost, no thanks to him helping get 5 points within Bush in his homestate, makes the sharpest reversal. I think his work as a lawyer was brilliant, and he should stick to that.

[jcrew2001]

42. Investment Banking didn't hurt Jon Corzine and I think its a valid job

and its important for Policy makers to understand how the market affects the economy and how to grow the economy and jobs. I admire Edwards for taking the time to educate himself with real world experience on issues that he didn't have much exposure with previously.

As for the Iraq War vote, sure it was a mistake; and he didn't have the foresight to see that Iraq Success would be impossible and that the removal of Saddam would insight Disaster. But he is from a RED State and they overwhelmingly supported Bush's Iraq War - so his centrist vote was justified in that way.

Senators for Mass, NY, California and Illinois can be as Liberal as they want with out ramifications or the threat of losing re-election, however, the rest of the country tries to appease the centrist voters.

[Andrew_Lindsey]

44. You admire this??

You admire someone who was paid nearly 500k while learning how to use tax loopholes? You admire someone who says one thing and then does another?

Very odd criteria of admiration.

[jcrew2001]

45. I would rather know the rules and the loopholes than be naive about

the economic issues facing corporations, employees, and the poor and middle class. You act like its wrong to be educated and intelligent and make your money work for you. Maybe this makes Edwards look like a Republican, unfortunately the Conservative Americans care A LOT ABOUT Their money, and will do everything to protect our hard-earned money. Maybe you think Edwards needs to switch to the Republican party, it seems like he'll be better received there considering no one is happy with Rudy McRomney.

I really think that Edwards is the only Democrat who can win the General Election. If Clark was running, he would have a good chance also to win Red states. Remember, if all the RED STATES Stay the SAME, it will be another GOP President.

[Andrew_Lindsey]

46. We are talking about judgment.

Edwards showed poor judgment, again, by working for, and accepting a salary from, a business that promoted loopholes that Edwards was fundamentally against.

He could have been educated without working for them.

I didn't say anything about Edwards being a Republican, I did say that he is showing poor judgment and that it becoming a pattern for him.

Edwards needs to win the nomination before anyone starts worrying about which states he can or can't flip. At the rate he is going, I don't see that happening.

[jcrew2001]

47. Real World Job experience beats classroom experience

The guys on wall street and every fortune 500 company use everything to their advantage. Its called Capitalism. There will always be companies and individuals using everything to get around lowering costs and paying less taxes. Unfortunately, thats the American way.

Sure, Edwards has some faults - but the faults of Hillary and Obama are far worse in my opinion. Plus, I would prefer a Democrat in the White House rather than Rudy G.

But the way things are going, I expect Rudy to be the next president.

[LostinVA]

52. If you have to post anti-DEm stuff all over DU, at least use punctuation, okay?

Thanks.

:hi:

[Norquist Nemesis]

40. Ok. Now let's talk about Rudy! n/t

[Artful Dodger]

43. About the poverty center at the University of North Carolina.......

how much in consulting fees?


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_22/c4036012.htm#ZZZ8IK3VS1F

[JohnLocke]

48. "If anyone has acted as a corporate shill, it’s Eamon Javers"

http://www.democracy-project.com/archives/002332.html
http://mediamatters.org/items/200506030009

[Cameron27]

50. I know who Eamon Javers is,

but is any of this incorrect?

John Edwards' Convenient Nonprofit

"During periods when they're out of office, many politicians arrange jobs for loyal former aides. After his unsuccessful 2004 Vice-Presidential bid, John Edwards came up with a creative approach: He started a nonprofit dedicated to fighting poverty. Rather than recruiting outside poverty experts, the Center for Promise & Opportunity became a perch for several once and future Edwards staff members.

The line between an ordinary nonprofit and a group formed to test the political waters can be blurry. But legally there's a big difference. Ordinary nonprofits aren't subject to rules on disclosing donors and limiting contributions; exploratory political groups are. No one has challenged the status of the Edwards center, and experts in the field say it may technically pass muster as an ordinary nonprofit. But at a minimum, it appears to have helped Edwards prepare for the 2008 Presidential race.

Edwards, a former Democratic senator from North Carolina, launched the center in 2005 at the Washington (D.C.) address of his PAC. The nonprofit raised $1.3 million in 2005, the only year for which data are available, and spent some of it on a national speaking tour for Edwards. It also spent $259,000 on consultants. The campaign declines to disclose the donors or consultants. The center is now defunct, and some of its key leaders are now aiding the Edwards campaign.

Edwards' team defends the center. "Obviously, some of the people who had worked for Senator Edwards in government and on his campaign continued to work with him in this effort," says spokesman Eric Schultz. "John Edwards and everyone involved is proud of the organization's work." That work included running a foundation that awarded $300,000 in college aid to 86 North Carolina students in 2006. The Edwards campaign put BusinessWeek in touch with recipient Tony Tyson, 18, who finished his freshman year at North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University. Tyson calls the scholarship "a golden opportunity." When he returns to campus this fall, he adds, he'll volunteer for Edwards' campaign."


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_22/c4036012.htm#ZZZ8IK3VS1F

[FrenchieCat]

51. Interesting..... n/t