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I have decided to INCLUDE Hillary as one of my choices for the Dem Primary!

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:47 PM
Original message
I have decided to INCLUDE Hillary as one of my choices for the Dem Primary!
Edited on Mon May-21-07 07:52 PM by FrenchieCat
I simply find that of all of the IWR "yeah" voters running (which is like almost all of them), she wasn't on the intel committee; she wrote no OP encouraging us to go to war, and she didn't co-sponsor the IWR bill. She's admitted that she made a mistake (since that's seems to earn brownie points round here even though she's not walking around on one knee--although sorries do little for me personally.....) trusting Bush with her war vote. I give her the same amount of leeway I gave John Kerry in 2004. Since my choices are limited, and will be reviewing her record closely now (something I have not yet done thoroughly).


Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 7:55 p.m. EST
Hillary Clinton: Iraq War Vote a Mistake
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/29/195654.shtml
"If Congress had been asked , based on what we know now, we never would have agreed," Clinton said, in an email sent to her supporters on Tuesday.

While saying she took full responsibility for her error, Clinton repeatedly insisted that she had been misled by "false" intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction presented by the Bush administration.


"Asked to cite mistakes they had made, Clinton mentioned “believing the president when he said he would go to the United Nations and put inspectors into Iraq to determine whether they had WMD.” She called that vote “a sincere vote based on the information available to me,” adding, “If I knew then what I now know, I would not have voted that way.”
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070427/news_1n27debate.html

I am actually encouraged that she does not have a campaign "Bumper Sticker" plan for getting out of Iraq because I believe that it affirms that she understand the real complexities of such an endeavor (I am awaiting for the IRAQ ONLY DEBATE that Biden wants to have to hear the candidate specifically, in detail, enounciate further on what each would do once President--cause Bush ain't ending this war, period)and that it ain't no game based on words alone!

In addition, I approve of at least 51% of what her husband did while in office, feels that he represents experience as opposed to learning on the job, and believe that as a team, they may be able to actually repair some things instead of giving a lot of campaign lip service. In other words, they have a record to look at, and even though it ain't "all that" to some, it's better than inserted sorries besides just about every action taken while in elected office.

I'll acknowledge that I am lowering my expectation with this decision. I certainly don't think that she's perfect in many ways; cause she's not. But I do believe that she can kick some Republican Ass cause she's been there done that, and that her concern for health care is genuine, and that she will put a whole lot of thought in plan that she proposes....(a whole lot!).

Hubby Bill might be smiling in their faces a lot, but he can take the knife out and twist it up and down and around when required, of that I have no doubt.

Even if there's a terror scare orchestrated by the opposition, it won't give voters such pause with Hillary on the ticket more than anything cause of Bill(and to me, that's important),cause I'd hate to witness Victory being snatched from us just cause we couldn't think that far and come up with the appropriate response strategy. She would have an answer that reassures better than some of the other candidates. As we all know, our runaway press will do what is required when it is required; that you can count on!

Also, she has a proven track record of being part of a Clinton administration who I will have to say did have the reputation of surrounding themselves with capable experts on various subject matters.

So, I am now down to Obama, Hillary, Kucinich and Richardson although my pompoms are in the other room. If Gore or Clark decides to throw hats in the race, I'll race into that room, cause that's where my pompoms are located!

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. I would be thrilled if either Gore or Clark runs in 2008.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yep.......
But I don't know if that will happen, so I have to start doing my research. Again, she's one of a group, so guess this isn't a "I love Hillary" post.

But since I saw a Hillary ruled out from someone who say the her IWR vote was important......I decided to think about that.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I have less enthusiasm for the rest.
However, I do agree with your assessment re: the complicity of cosponsoring the IWR and rallying for war as opposed to just voting for the IWR. In the realm of suck, the former sucks more than the latter.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yep....at this point, I'm doing comparitive shopping n/t
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Gore/Clark '08!
Now, THAT is a dream ticket!
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. HRC had access to great intelligence on Iraq via Bill Clinton
Yes, she was not on the intelligence committee but she is married to someone who was president for 8 years. She arguably had access to better insight as to the Iraq situation than anyone else through President Clinton.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Can you "show" me the intelligence Clinton was looking at?
and what about the co-sponsorship....why didn't she do that? :shrug:

Seemed like popular thing to do at the time.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. 8 years of presidential briefings on Iraq for Bill Clinton don't provide special insight?
Edited on Mon May-21-07 08:02 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
As far as showing the intelligence at DU, we haven't seen what the intelligence committee was given either...
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. So.... Laura Bush is an Iraq expert now?
Interesting "logic" there.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. That is the "logic" HRC supporters use to tout their candidates' experience
If they are going to use it to sell her we cannot suddenly ignore it when it shows her in a bad light. Without her tenures as First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years and 8 years as First Lady if the United States she has as much experience as Edwards does and doesn't have a towering experience advantage over Obama. Do her stints as First Lady qualify her for the presidency? According to her supporters, yes. One thing is for sure, being married to a former president had to give her some special insight into Iraq. If she did not consult Bill Clinton about this vital issue what does that say about claims that a HRC victory will give Bill an important role in the WH? More importantly, what does it say about claims (which no one really disputes) about the close relationship Bill and HRC had on political matters during his career?
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Your choice is up to you. My reasons for not supporting Hillary has zip to do with IWR
My not supporting her is many and varied. However, you should to decide on your own who you want to support.
My list will not effect anything one way or another. I actually do not expect my anti hillary postings to move anyone. I do it to vent my feelings only.
Same with posting pro Obama stuff. I do it to express why I support him.
I meant to ask about your name Frenchie cat. Why did you chose that.
On other blogs I have vwcat. Couldn't change it here so, kept the old one. But, I am french and have cats and have a vw bug.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Roger!
My name? Cause I'm French and have green Cat eyes and C-A-T are the first 3 letters of my name.

:hi:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. "I actually do not expect my anti hillary postings to move anyone."
Than perhaps you're wasting your energy with those, and should focus on positive messages about the candidate and issues you support?
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Better you than me!
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Good for you for being fair
For certain, I respect your thinking, as you know very well.

I'm sticking with my plan. No IWR YES voters for me in this primary. I can't bring myself to do it.

By September, I expect to have a candidate one way or another. Meanwhile I'm observing the field.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. "I do believe that she can kick some Republican Ass" - That's one reason she's on my list.
I do believe that she can kick some Republican Ass


Something that Kerry, and especially Edwards, failed miserably at.
I want a tough candidate who can beat, literally beat, the Republican.
Right now that's Hillary Clinton.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. A profoundly important reason........among many, IMHO. eom
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Agreed that it is one of my main concern......
Edited on Mon May-21-07 09:43 PM by FrenchieCat
Cause when those Republicans are revved and have the media right there with them, they are a merciless bunch. I'll admit that has hard as they have tried to knock both Bill and Hillary blocks off, that woman don't take no mess (except for maybe from Bill....and I'm even wondering about that, these days!) and knows how to pick herself up, dust herself off, and hit back.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Obama/Clinton is an excellent ticket
I can even think about Clinton/Obama, but only because Obama would be on the ticket.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I agree with everything you've said Frenchie!
If Clark or Gore don't run....I'm giving Hillary a good look and I like what I see except for that damn vote. I also like the fact that Bill Clinton is behind her whispering sweet advice in her ear. Having the most popular man in the world back in the White House would be a major, much needed asset to America in getting some prestige and our lost moral authority back again...although it will take many many years to repair the damage bush* has done. Bill is a smart man and I'm sure he has learned from his mistakes. The thoughts of having smart people back in the WH make me giddy. The thoughts of rubbing another 8 years of Bill and Hill in the faces of all those vast right wingers would give me great pleasure.:bounce:
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Tweety spent about 30 minutes of his show last nite trying to tear
down the Clintons. Wanting to know how many nights they sleep together. :eyes:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Except when they decide to NOT hit back - the trashed WH lie and Bush2's first 6yrs.
come to mind.

Name the top 50 Dem lawmakers in DC or Democrats in general who STUCK THEIR NECKS OUT and worked hardest to PUBLICALLY oppose BushInc the last 6 years and see if you put Hillary on that list.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. but if Kerry had just fought back, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. If Clinton hadn't gotten a blowjob, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. That explains why Hill wouldn't be on a top 50 list for Dems who opposed BushInc?
OK.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. but if Kerry had just fought back, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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JetCityLiberal Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Spamming the boards with this same line
is against the rules.

And stupid but hey knock yourself out. Please, knock yourself out.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. sounds like... blm!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Deleted message
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. What evidence is there that she can do this?
Where was this great ability in 1994 when we needed it in the aftermath of the health care plan debacle?

She has run for office twice and against no serious opposition.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Where was the fight back on "trashed White House" attack? Or "Clinton let Bin Laden go"
lies that went uncountered for years?
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. And where were her great fighting back skills during her health care fiasco?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. If you can go back to 1994 with this kind of clarity,
why don't you look at Edwards' actions in 2002 during the Iraq Fiasco and ask yourself the same question. That's way more recent, and at least she was attempting something honorable! :eyes:
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good for you! The more the better.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'm glad you feel this way about Clinton.
I reached pretty much the same conclusion awhile ago. I'd say that I'm still leaning towards Obama in the primaries, but I don't feel the same animosity towards Hillary that so many others feel.

Her yes vote for the IWR is much less offensive to me because she wasn't on the Senate Intelligence Committee, although it's still something that I won't overlook. I like that she's a fighter who won't back down from attacks, and of course there's Bill :-)





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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. That's fair. HRC is
Edited on Mon May-21-07 11:48 PM by Pithy Cherub
not on my list of possibilities due to her IWR vote. That vote is a deal breaker for me and she said if we wanted to hear an apology find another candidate. Done. Of those listed, Richardson was an Iraq war supporter as well, even though he did not have a vote. (The Wen Ho Lee mess bugs me too.) The other disqualifier for me is heavy DLC participation. So, that leaves me personally with hopes for Clark or Gore but will have to get on the Obama bandwagon should the other two big guns not get in. Waiting general, sir. :patriot:


Happy Researching! :hug:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
26. LMAO!
I was perplexed, at first, until I read through your scribe. I love satire.

:7
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well, whoop-de-
do. I'm sure Hillary is thrilled.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. She has to be........
There is no reason to think otherwise! :eyes:
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. Shocked. Shocked, I tell you. [/notshocked]
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