One thing this war budget decision points up for us...

[Ken Burch]

Part of the dynamic that drove this was the large number of Dem incumbents who are still obsessed with the idea that they HAVE to periodically disrespect the activists and make a fetish out of "distancing" themselves from them.

Can we ever get our incumbents and candidates to get past this particular obsession?

If activists actually WERE partially to blame for some past defeats, haven't we been punished ENOUGH for that yet?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. It is the activist, the net roots

vs the DC insiders, truly this is what this fight is all about

the Netroots have been gaining and this scares them shitless

[The Magistrate]

2. That Is Not What It Is About, Mr. Burch

It is about two very simple political facts, one immediate and one longer term.

Right now, a large number of people do not support continuing the war. An equally large number of people do not want funding for it cut off immediately. So long as this condition obtains, funding will not be withdrawn by any affirmative act.

The large number of people who do not want the war to continue mostly do not want it broken off in a manner that requires them to acknowledge the country has suffered a defeat. This means that whoever manages the disengagement, which is inevitable over the next couple of years, will have to manage it very carefully, so as not to be vulnerable down the road to accusations of having "lost the war", that will inevitably be pressed by the enemy.

The fact is that there is still a good dal of work to be done changing popular perceptions and views in this matter. This not something done with a snap of the fingers: it is going to take a real campaign, and good a deal of time. It is not nearly over yet.

[acmavm]

3. If anyone can come up with a way to make it appear that we didn't

'lose' this war (whatever the hell war it is we're fighting), then he/she will be some seriously bigtime Flim-Flam Mo Fo. Because for all intents and purposes, we lost it the day we dropped the first bomb on an innocent populace in some kind of greedy delusion that we could take over the Middle East and form it into a submissive bunch of puppet countries who are beholden to us for 'liberating' them from various despots and dictators.

Excuse my incoherence but I've been up for about 24 hours straight with only 8 hours sleep from Friday morning to Monday right about 2:30 a.m.

But I'm sure you get my drift.

[Ken Burch]

4. I agree that it ISN'T over yet.

At the same time, we have to recognize that this is an issue upon which no center ground exists, an issue where triangulation IS...NOT...POSSIBLE.

I hope our leaders stand their ground three months from now.

In the short run, they've given Oxycontin Boy and O'Liely the chance to beat us up big time on their shows.

It would have been better not to back down.

I hope to hell Reid knows what he's doing.