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Bob Geiger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:01 PM
Original message
Four Senators With Balls
Edited on Thu May-24-07 01:17 PM by Bob Geiger
If I asked you to quickly name what four United States Senators are sticking to their guns and will vote against the ludicrous "compromise" Iraq supplemental bill -- you know, the one where George W. Bush gets everything he wants -- what would be your first few guesses?

If you said Russ Feingold (D-WI), Chris Dodd (D-CT) and John Kerry (D-MA) you would, of course, be right. And if you think about who was one of the fastest to sign on with the Feingold-Reid legislation to withdraw our troops from Iraq in less than a year, you probably would have also guessed Independent Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

While Joe Biden (D-DE) oddly chooses to mouth Republican talking points and says that he will vote for giving Bush a new blank check with which to continue his ongoing occupation of Iraq -- "as long as we have troops on the frontlines, we must give them the equipment and protection they need," says Biden -- we have at least four (so far) with the guts to do the right thing when the vote is taken on Thursday or Friday.

"I cannot support a bill that contains nothing more than toothless benchmarks and that allows the President to continue what may be the greatest foreign policy blunder in our nation’s history," said Feingold yesterday. "There has been a lot of tough talk from members of Congress about wanting to end this war, but it looks like the desire for political comfort won out over real action. Congress should have stood strong, acknowledged the will of the American people, and insisted on a bill requiring a real change of course in Iraq.”

And in a post at Daily Kos on Tuesday, Feingold reinforced how he would vote on the non-compromise, saying "To answer those of you who asked if I would support a supplemental without binding language to end the war, the answer is no. I think this conference report is an affront to the will of the American people and does nothing to help change course in Iraq."

Chris Dodd, who is a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008, continues to display the guts and leadership he's been showing on the war throughout the new Congress.

"I cannot and will not simply give this President another blank check," said Dodd in a statement Wednesday. "Half-measures and equivocations are not going to change our course in Iraq. If we are serious about ending the war, Congress must stand up to this President's failed policy now - with clarity and conviction."

Senator John Kerry also remains steadfast in his belief that Congress needs to stand firm against a White House hell bent on the same stay-the-course policy and that clearly has no regard for the lives of American troops or the ongoing difficulties faced by military families.

"We support the troops by getting the policy right and this bill allows the President to keep getting the policy wrong. We need a deadline to force Iraqis to stand up for Iraq and bring our heroes home, not watered down benchmarks and blank check waivers for this President," said Kerry. "We support the troops by funding the right mission, not with a White House that opposes a pay raise for our brave men and women in uniform. The original Senate legislation offered a roadmap to change course in Iraq. This new version enables the Administration and Iraqi politicians to deliver more of the same."

And Sanders joins with his Democratic colleagues -- with whom he aligns himself in the Senate -- saying today that he will stand with Feingold, Dodd and Kerry in voting against this legislation.

"My view is that the Congress has got to be as strong as it possibly can be, to say that we've got to bring our troops home as soon as possible," said Sanders. "We cannot continue to fund endlessly month after month, year after year a war which is costing us so much in lives in money and lack of respect around the world."

Meanwhile, John Edwards joins Dodd as only the second of the presidential candidates willing to go toe-to-toe with Bush on ending the war and responsibly redeploying U.S. forces out of the Iraqi civil war.

Here's Edwards:
"The so-called compromise under discussion in Congress that would give the president another blank check to continue his failed war is a serious mistake. Full funding is full funding, no matter what you call it. Every member of Congress who wants to support our troops and end the war should oppose this proposal. If you're in Congress, and you believe this war is wrong, I urge you to use every power you have to stop it if it's brought up for a vote. Block the blank check.

"And I urge all Americans who want this war to end to tell your representatives in Congress that you will support them if they stand up to the president. Tell them you understand that when the president vetoes a bill that funds the troop and ends the war, he is the only person in America stopping support for the troops. It is time for this war to end. As I have said repeatedly, Congress should send the president the same bill he vetoed again and again until he realizes he has no choice but to start bringing our troops home. Anything less is everything he needs to prolong the war."
So there's your Wednesday-evening count of people with the balls to risk being told they don’t support the troops by those using the perverted logic that Senators trying to keep military lives from being needlessly lost are the ones who are wrong.

At least these four Senators and John Edwards can go into the 2007 Memorial Day weekend knowing they're trying to keep the death toll from increasing still more for the 2008 observance.

How many of their Congressional colleagues and fellow presidential candidates will be able to say the same?

Update (05/24): Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) will also vote against the bogus compromise.
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Heath Hatcher Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well how it looks in the House
That atleast a third of our caucus including the Speaker is voting this bill down. I have absolutely no idea how the Repukes are voting, I think a few of them will vote for this then also a few won't because this techinally dosen't give bush his "Blank check" on the war due to the benchmarks.
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peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Benchmarks mean nothing
They are 'optional'. Bush can ignore them, so he does have a totally Blank Check to do as he damn well pleases.
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Heath Hatcher Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Tell that to the far right Repukes
Who think that even with optional benchmarks the Generals hands "will be tied" and the war will be "micromanged" get what i'm saying. I'm not worrying a better deal is coming in the next few months.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. It's worse than a blank check
It's a blank check with political cover for Repukes who support it.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. One third?
And this is supposed to be encouraging? You have battered voter syndrome
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Heath Hatcher Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. Well what do you want me to say
It gets bad when a good bit of YOUR OWN PARTY is not supporting this bill, that what will tell you that this is a bad bill.

Battered voter syndrome what the hell does that mean, a smart remark?
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. My good senator is Tom Harkin and he has been out in front
on much of this. I surely expect Mr. Harkin to continue his leadership.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Likewise, I figure my Senator Boxer
will vote NO as well. Why change now?
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Heath Hatcher Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. And Mitchtv I'm guessing your other Senator will be voting the opposite on this
I don't even want to bring up her name she's so disgusting.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I suppose
embarassing
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Heath Hatcher Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes indeed it's very emberassing
You know what Mitchtv, it's pretty sad when you look at your senators and one of them is a true patriot that will fight until the day she dies and the other is a dumb corporate shill(the same goes with her hubby)it's pretty sad when you think of it.

Sorryto bash your state and everything it's so fed up with Dianna Feinstein and I don't even live in California (My uncle live there though)
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. To be fair , sometimes she suprises
that pro choice vote can come in handy, but yeah she is a dud
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. She voted for Feingold-Reid
Admittedly, I almost swallowed by tongue when I saw that, but DINOanne is not a guaranteed YES on this.
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Heath Hatcher Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. No that's good that she's pro-choice
But with the Democrats in power is that really going to matter, since the Dems don't make issues on social issues(guns, gays and abortions) or family values abortion won't really come into play.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. How can Biden say that the government has given the troops
what they need when families are still BEGGING for money from townsfolk to buy their loved ones body armor? Biden's excuse is a joke.
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justinrr1 Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
39. I believe that comment
was regarding the Mine Resistant vehicles that Biden is fighting to get to the troops quicker. he sent out an email yesterday on this and it had a very similar phrase to the one quoted above.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. male body parts are not required for courage
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. ...
:kick:


dp
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Thanks for saying it.
I didn't see your post before adding my own, but then it warrants repeating, doesn't it? Normally it doesn't bother me TOO much, but I also think I've reached a saturation point. I've had enough.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. saturation is the key word
constant exposure to this horror and the feeling of helplessness that comes with it can lead to numbness. Sometimes I get angry with myself for not being more upset, then I realize that it's a protection mechanism. if i got as upset as i should be, i'd be insane.

we need a good psychotherapist ... any DU'ers available for group counselling?

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. I don't get numb, I stay angry
I'm tired of outdated, tired, sexist shit and I'll point it out every time I see it.....I don't need counseling, people using such "expressions" do
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Apparently they're not even sufficient for courage, looking at Reid, et al
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. Damn straight! Barbara Boxer was the ONLY Senator, of ANY gender,
who actually stood up with the Congressional Black Caucus in challenging the 2004 presidential election vote. All the men sat in their little chairs and cowered, as did all the other women. She alone stood up. She made me proud. I hope she stands up again. Too bad there aren't more out there like her.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. She was the only one with the OVARIES to do it.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. No, she was the one with the COURAGE to do it.
*banging my head against the wall here*

A person's COURAGE does not relate to their FERTILITY or the size of their SEXUAL ORGANS, dammit. If a woman has a hysterectomy, you think they will no longer have courage? You realize how stupid that is?

The reason people dance around with that "ovaries = courage" bullshit is because they are trying to translate male supremacy into a gender neutral term. But guess what? You can't do that. Male supremacy isn't gender neutral.
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pcboss49 Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. In Indiana my one democrat senator must have been neutered
somewhere along the line. Sen Bayh will vote for the bill as will the steadfast shrub-attached Sen Lugar. Living in a red state, I just can't win....
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. I am hoping Wyden votes against. He did vote against the IWR and the Patriot Act.
Maybe -- just maybe -- Gordon Smith, my other Senator from Oregon, will vote against it, too.

For right now, it feels like our Dem "leadership" took a garbage can filled with every nasty thing imaginable and dumped it all over our living room floors.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. It's a lose-lose for Gordo
If he votes for it, he loses all the moderates. If he votes against it, he loses his base. I look to him to vote for it, despite his "brave" stance against the war on the Senate floor. What a load of hot air that was. He must think we're all fools.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. The troops have lost plenty.
Maybe he loses his base, and maybe not. With 70% of Americans against the war, with Oregon turning a deeper shade of blue, and with his history of working closely with Wyden, Gordon may surprise us. I certainly hope so. I'll be calling his office first, then Wyden.

I'll tell Gordy's office that this is one constituent who wants him to put his money where his mouth is and do what's right for the troops.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. You couldn't say "courage" or "spine"? -- it had to be body parts
both vernacularly expressed and exclusively MALE??

And while I'm sure this is seen as nitpicking, it comes on a day of a LOT of sexism in the Rosie/Hasselbeck threads and besides all that, I'm farkin' sick of being confronted with that terminology all the damn time. Women have plenty of courage too, it's not exclusively a male trait and shouldn't be portrayed as such.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. you know it, Morgana
it is especially distressing to see it on a DEMOCRATIC board and don't even get me STARTED on the WOMEN I hear saying it :puke:
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
36. I'm with you.
I viewed it as a day of a LOT of sexism in the Monica threads - I missed the other.

Don't use language that reinforces male supremacy. How hard is that?
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. You always say it better -- and more succinctly as well, lwfern
and I'm farkin' sick of that too. :evilgrin: Just kidding. Farkin' happy to have you around TO say it shorter and better. :thumbsup:
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. I was going to say the same thing. Thank you! n/t
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Conscious Confucius Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. God damnit, Why wasn't Kerry like this before?
Damn him for voting for the war. I would like to think the way he acts now is representative of the true John Kerry, not the shell of a man he was for the past 5 years.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Because he was planning on running for President. nt
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Kerry has been leading the fight for at least the last 2 years
Kerry has said that his vote was wrong and that he should not have trusted Bush to do as he said and go to war as a last resort. He also said that if Bush didn't keep his promise, he would speak out - which he did BEFORE the invasion. After the invasion, he called for regime change here (via election) because of it.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. He promised troops out in 2005
He's always been opposed to this war. Sorry so many "supporters" chose to perpetuate that stupid Grand Canyon myth instead of his actual plan to end the war.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
42. Kerry has opposed the INVASION since before it started. He said the IWR was working
and that Bush had no need to invade as the weapon inspections and diplomatic measures of the IWR were proving military force was not needed. Except that is not the storyline that corporate media wanted. They played IWR as if it gave the order to invade instead of focusing on the fact that Bush LIED and VIOLATED the IWR when he made his decision supposedly AFTER weapon inspections.

And Kerry has been submitting Iraq withdrawal plans since 2005 - where have YOU been?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
44. This Kerry has been here all along.
You either weren't looking, or somehow weren't seeing. Of course the whole point of existence of the M$M is to keep folk like us from seeing.
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. Are four the only ones who will stand up? I guess we will see
tomorrow which Senators can be trusted with our future.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. The corporate lobbyists and beltway consultants run this country TOO DAMN MUCH!!
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R.nt
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
31. "Four Senators with Balls"

Damn!

That's only EIGHT balls between the whole lot of them.

........
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Bwahaha
I rec'd this thread out of pride for the four brave aforementioned pairs of, erm, balls, but I really do wish we could eliminate this gender-specific reference to courage. I realize the four brave Senators in the OP are indeed men but I know we'll be seeing some brave women join their number soon.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
40. Why marginalize Kucinich?
He's a presidential candidate too.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. Kucinich is in The House of Reps, and will be leading the charge there.
There will be more than four Reps standing up when this hits the House, but there will probably be enough Democratic MoneyPigs to join with the Republicans to get this passed. :(

I saw a TV clip yesterday of Sen Clinton REFUSING to talk about this bill, and she was mad as a wet cat. THIS will cost her votes in the Primary. She obviously had not had time to check with her advisors, run a focus group, check the polls, let someone else do it first to test the waters, put her finger in the air, get her orders from AIPAC, and have her Madison Avenue spinmasters write up something for her to say.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. This is what I meant:
From the OP: "Meanwhile, John Edwards joins Dodd as only the second of the presidential candidates willing to go toe-to-toe with Bush on ending the war and responsibly redeploying U.S. forces out of the Iraqi civil war."

I do realize Kucinich isn't a Senator. But he is a presidential candidate, he polls competitively with Dodd, and it's so discouraging when even Bob Geiger doesn't acknowledge this.

I sure would like to see that TV clip of Sen. Clinton. Thanks for telling us about it.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
41. I will remember these four and make sure I contribute to them.
Others will also be considered if they vote No on this Republican bill disguised as a Dem/bipartisan compromise bill.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
43. What would happen if every Dem Senator voted against funding?

We would have:

Nay: 48 (D) + 1 (I) = 49
Yea: 49 (R) + 1 (I) = 50
N/V: 1 (D) Tim Johnson out sick


Were Johnson not sick, all the Dems plus Bernie Sanders (I) still only gives us a tie with Cheney ($) the tie-breaker.


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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. At least they would be taking a stand and sending a clear message.
Also, Lieberman would never vote nay. He loves the Iraq war too much.

We could possibly have a couple cross-overs from the Repubs, but even so, I don't think the "leadership" of Reid is serving us well at all. He should be replaced.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Be glad leadership is not determined on Iraqi Occupation alone.

If the Occupation of Iraq was the ONLY issue used to determine Senate "leadership", then 49 Democrats and 1 Independant (Sanders) would vote for Democratic control, 49 Republicans and 1 Independant (Lieberman) would vote for Republican control, and the Republican Vice-President would cast the tie-breaker in favor of the Republicans.

Actually, I think a Senator from an overwhelmingly Republican state, or from a swing state, is a bad choice. A Senator from a "safe" state could really take the lead on progressive issues. While a swing/GOP-stater puts himself at risk by doing so. Look what happened to Tom Daschle.


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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I think you are correct in your assessment of Reid being from a conservative state.
However, we would still have to deal with those senators from swing states who lack the courage to vote according to the people's voice. (Look at the most recent polls; Americans are overwhelmingly disgusted with the war, and a strong enough majority are wanting timetables.)

Then there's Lieberman, the fetid albatross around our neck. I keep a bottle of champagne ready for the day when we can kick him down the stairs and out the door.

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