I've decided to vote for Libby Dole and the GOP nominee for President

[auburngrad82]

the Dems caved on Iraq! They don't have the votes to end the war so I might as well vote for the party that will make sure it never ends.

:sarcasm:

Jesus Christ, people. We don't have the votes in Congress. There is no realistic way to end the war until after the 2008 elections. And that's IF we can keep control of Congress and win the Presidency.

If you want it now I have bad news. It just ain't gonna happen.

[William769]

1. I agree.

With the numbers we have right now all we really can do is antagonize & agitate, and all they have to do is come to DU to see how it's done.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. K&R. Throwing a hissy fit isn't going to change simple facts.

1) We do not have the power to override a veto in the Senate OR the House.
2) We do not have the power to override a filibuster in the Senate.
3) The American public DOES NOT SUPPORT de-funding the war.
4) Bush has made it clear the war will continue, with or without the funding.

[Jersey Devil]

6. Huh? We don't need the votes to override any veto

Congress passes a spending bill, it is vetoed. The result is there is no money. There is no need to override the veto. We win. Case closed.

Bush can veto from now until the cows come home and he still will have no money.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

7. And what are you going to do about the 60% of the country that doesn't approve?

[Jersey Devil]

10. What 60%?

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/24/nyt-poll-opposition... /

NYT poll: Opposition to war at all-time high.

“Americans now view the war in Iraq more negatively than at any time since the war began, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll. Six in 10 Americans surveyed say the United States should have stayed out of Iraq, and more than three in four say that things are going badly there — including nearly half who say things are going very badly, the poll found.”

A large majority of the public — 76 percent, including a majority of Republicans — say that the additional American troops sent to Iraq this year by Mr. Bush have either had no impact or are making things worse there. Twenty percent think the troop increase is improving the situation in Iraq.

A majority of Americans continue to support a timetable for withdrawal. Sixty-three percent say the United States should set a date for withdrawing troops from Iraq sometime in 2008.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. This 60%

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/08/schneider.iraq.poll/index.html

Democratic leaders have said they won't cut off support for the troops, and the majority of the public agrees they should not, according to the CNN poll. Sixty percent of those polled oppose a measure that would provide no additional funds for the troops and require them to withdraw by next March.

[auburngrad82]

12. There's a difference between opposing the war and wanting to fund the troops

You are generalizing. Yes, most people want a timeline. But at the same time, a clear majority of people feel that we need to fund the troops, that we cannot just cut off the funding and leave the men and women in Iraq ill-eqipped. Two different items.

The fact is that we cannot muster the votes necessary to get a timeline passed. That's the fact. We also can't get the votes to impeach the Chimp. That's a fact. So what do you do? If you do nothing then the majority of people will see it as leaving the troops hanging out to dry. So you have to fund the war for now and get a Dem elected President. That's realistically the only way out.

[auburngrad82]

9. Then we become a useless do-nothing entity and the voters return to the GOP

because the GOP WILL use the do-nothing strategy against us. If you truly want out then you will bite your tongue and hold your nose and get the GOP out of the White House in 2008.

There is no other option. We don't have the political power to impeach or to pull out of Iraq at this time. In 2008 we probably will. Popular opinion is on our side.

[tridim]

3. Maybe, but they should still remain tough instead of capitulating..

That's all I'm expecting. If they keep bending over they're going to lose in 08.

[unpossibles]

4. thank you. I don't think that a deadlock where nothing happens

would be a good idea either. We all know Bush never admits error or backs down on any position, which in my mind is the true mark of a simpleton, not the mark of being strong or brave. When you are fighting someone who is too stupid to ever give in, you regroup and reform your strategy. What happened when the Rethugs's deadlocked and shut down Congress? Did that go over well, other than with their 'NEVAR SAY DIE!!1" base? of course not.




And to any potential trolls: yes, there are some issues I refuse to back down on, but I am still able to admit error and to listen to opponents' arguments.

[ellenfl]

5. who's libby dole?

if you mean bob dole's wife, liddy, what does she have to do with anything? i'm confused.

btw, the dems could not have passed that bill, anyway. let's see who votes for it and move on. the rw and so-called left wing pundits are beating up on the dems. no need for us to. let's step back and see what happens next.

ellen fl

[auburngrad82]

8. I agree

You're right, it's Liddy. I mentioned her because I'm from North Carolina and she's our Senator. I would never ever vote for her fpr Senator nor would I vote for whoever the GOP chooses to throw out there for the President. I was being sarcastic.

I'm a little tired of reading all the "Dems caved" and "'ll never vote for so and so" and "the Dems needs to grow some balls" posts. The fact is, as you said, the dems could not have passed that bill. But if you point that out then people start telling you how you are drinking the Koolaid and giving Bush what he wants.

From day one I have been against the Iraq war. I was telling people if they thought we were going to get out of there with the minimal casualties we had in the first war they were dreaming. And I have been pointing out similarities between the Iraq fiasco and the Vietnam war for years as well. I want out. But it ain't gonna happen until we gain the presidency and hopefully a larger majority in Congress.