Kerry Adviser Told Him..."He'd Never Be President if he Didn't vot for Iraq WAR!"!

[KoKo]

Election Central Memorial Day Roundup
By Eric Kleefeld | bio

Shrum: Kerry Adviser Told Him He'd "Never Be President" If He Didn't Vote For Iraq War
In his upcoming political tell-all book, Bob Shrum alleges that John Kerry called him to ask for his political advice on the eve of the October 11, 2002, vote to authorize the Iraq invasion. Kerry was privately skeptical of the WMD claims and distrusting of the Bush Administration, Shrum writes, but Kerry adviser Jim Jordan told Kerry: "Go ahead and vote against it if you want, but you'll never be president of the United States." Shrum's implication is that despite his private doubts about the wisdom of the war, Kerry voted for it in response to political advice. Nonetheless, it is Jordan who emerges from the account looking the worst. Current Kerry aides say that his vote for the war was based on conviction.

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/may/28/election_central_memorial_day_roundup

[BeyondGeography]

1. I'm sure he wasn't the only one who either got this advice

or ended up thinking along that same line. Goes to show you where conventional wisdom can get you.

[ProSense]

2. Posted here too

link

[flyarm]

3. SHRUM IS REMI NDING ME OF DICK MORRIS!! WHO CARES WHAT HE SAYS?? EOM

[KoKo]

5. Agree... Shrum is Scum...but the RW Media Whore Pundits are pushing Shrum's book and this

is over at Josh Marshall's site.

Those same Media Whores are now working on SELECTION '08. I guess that's why we need to listen to this stuf. It's getting old and stale the way they manipulate our Dem Candidates...but then...haven't they had TIME ENOUGH to LEARN that they Pay Millions to these SHRUMS and END UP LOSTING? :shrug:

[flyarm]

4. SHRUM IS REMI NDING ME OF DICK MORRIS!! WHO CARES WHAT HE SAYS?? EOM

[Tom Joad]

17. Dick Morris helped get Clinton to the White House. And helped get

Jessie Helms reelected. I hold all three with equal dishonor.

[Tom Joad]

6. Kerry, of course, was an idiot for taking this advice. Surprised this man

can ski down slopes without hitting a tree. But maybe he doesn't ask for political advice before doing that.

[wisteria]

9. How can we really know if Shrum is telling us the truth? I for one think

Senator Kerry may have asked for the opinions of many people, but in the end made up his own mind as to the best course to take. Senator Kerry is a leader not a follower.

[Tom Joad]

15. The bottom line is that Kerry voted for the ill-fated resolution. I don't care who he asked

it was one of the worst votes in the US senate since the gulf of tonkin resolution, which was a pack of lies sold by LBJ and his criminal cohorts...
And Kerry should have been smart enough to learn from the tonkin resolution.


And of course they do nothing but pretend to oppose the war now.

[karynnj]

12. You are the one I would worry about on the slopes

First of all this is Jordan, who Kerry fired, supposedly telling Shrum something. Shrum has already said many things that just do not feel right. Then there is the assumption that that influenced Kerry's decision. All the people working with Kerry have consistently disputed this.

First of all, Kerry himself has at least as much political accumen as Jordan. Second of all, Kerry very likely already had made his decision before the day before. Also, how do you explain Kerry speaking against the war before it started. (If he voted for the IWR for political reasons wouldn't that be unlikely. However, if he voted to give Bush the power, in hopes he would go to the UN and do what he said would do possibly avoiding a war, speaking out at the point it was clear that Bush wasn't makes complete sense. How many of the people you suspect voted politically spoke out before the war?

[Cha]

7. THis tells me one thing..

"Fuck advisers, go with your conscience"!

[wisteria]

8. Senator Kerry did what he thought was best for this country in 2002,

he has since apologized for his vote (I for one never though he needed to do so), and has continued to do all he can to end this war and bring peace here at home and to the Middle East.
Shrum things way to highly of himself and is trying to sell books based on his own lies and mediocrity.

[elocs]

10. Kerry would have been better off seeking the advice of the senior senator from Massachusetts,

Ted Kennedy. What did Ted know that John didn't and why was he not fooled? Or was it simply that Kennedy was not going to run for president? Presidential candidates should take their fingers out of the wind and start voting and campaigning with passion for what they know is right and what they truly believe in. In the vote to fund the war, didn't Clinton and Obama wait until the end to cast their votes? Were they waiting to see which direction the vote was going? I am undecided, so I do not have an ax to grind, but I will remember things like that and take them into consideration.

[karynnj]

13. Kerry likely had a much stronger view of the potential terrorism there

He is also the more likely to trust people. I'm sure Kerry did speak to Kennedy and to many other people and the decision was ultimately his - and most probably made for exactly the reasons given in his speech.

If it was political, he would not have spoken out in January 2003 - before the war.

[Tom Joad]

16. fingers out of the wind? that and take their head out of their

donor's ass.

[ProSense]

18. Nonsense!

This signing statement is Bush overriding the resolution to launch his illegal war.

[karynnj]

11. Shrum has already said the same thing

about him telling Edwards that. Neither are particularly believable. Especially in Kerry's case - he likely did talk to many people, but he then made up his mind and did so trying to make the right decision for the country. My guess is that if you wanted to maximize your chances of being President, you would vote against the war. Why? If the war were going well or moderately well, Bush would be unbeatable. If the war were already doing very poorly - then you would likely win the Democratic nomination. (Remember< Kerry would still haev all the foreign policy and anti-terrorism credentials.

In Kerry's case he has spoken very consistently about why he voted as he did. It was not just about WMD that Bush lied about, he lied about what he would do with the authority. Senator Kerry consistently spoke about going to the UN and Congress. Bush had said that a yes vote was not a vote for war, but a vote so that he would have the leverage needed at the UN. (Having gotten Bush to change course and agree to go to the UN and Congress - Kerry may have thought he would be more able to push Bush from war, if he publicly trusted him.

Also, Kerry publicly spoke out against the war before it started when it was clear that Bush did not intend to honor his committment to exhaust the diplomacy and to go to war only as a last resort. This would make no sense if his vote was political - this was before the war started. He also called for regime change here at a point the war had about 70% approval. It makes perfect sense if he voted for the reasons he said he did. It also is why he and only 10 other signed the letter to get the Phase 2 investigation done on whether Bush manipulated the data.

The timing on this makes no sense as Kerry didn't make his decision and write that speech the night before. There were many accounts from insiders who spoke saying the decision was as Kerry said it was - he couldn't rule out that there were WMD, Saddam was bad enough to use them and he wanted pressure to get the intensive inspection needed - which he feared Saddam would not agree to.

There was a 2004 interview, where Teresa refered to the IWR delaying the war 5 months, but that they had hoped going to the UN would have averted the war. This was compatible with what Kerry was saying but was not same - which makes it more believable.

[Lord Helmet]

14. When does Kerry take the rap for what Kerry does?

I don't see how some of you can continue to make excuses for him.

Shrum or not. Shooting the messenger doesn't solve (or name) the problem.

[ProSense]

19. "Shrum or not"?

Why should he take ownership of a rumor being pushed by Shrum?

[Lord Helmet]

20. just sayin' he's responsible for his own vote

He probably asked all kinds of people for advice. What matters is what he decided to do and for that he alone is responsible.

I think you get 2 wrapped up in what irrelevant douche-bags like Shrum that are just trying to sell a book have to say.

[ProSense]

21. Problem is people like Shrum are only irrelevant

until their lies get repeated over and over in the media. It happens all the time.

[Lord Helmet]

22. That made me laught out loud because the Democrats only wish

they were as efficient at spreading propaganda like the Republicans do.

Shrum's book will come out, he'll do a couple shows, and then he slink back into obscurity. He's a hack and a not very good one at that.

[ProSense]

23. Thing is, how many

RW propaganda talking points start out as lies by people like Shrum?

[Lord Helmet]

24. it won't be relevent to this election

that's the beauty of it, Kerry isn't running, so just look at it as something unpleasant that will pass and be forgotten. It's not like it is earthshattering and has anything to do with the upcoming election. It won't matter in about 5 minutes.

[ProSense]

25. It has everything to do with

keeping the facts straight and pushing to hold Bush accountable on a war he lied to start. Everything isn't about elections. Iraq shouldn't be, and that's why there is a huge furor over Congress' recent vote.

[Lord Helmet]

26. well you have your work cut out for you

because the BS is flying and will just pick up the pace as the election draws closer. imo on a scale of 1-to-10 on my outrage meter, I can only spare about a 3 for this for the reasons I've already stated. Too much other shit going on out there.

But to each his own. Good luck.

[ProSense]

27. The really big

shit going on is the ongoing illegal war and death toll. I'd say it tops everything. JMO.

[karynnj]

29. Kerry has taken the responsibility for everything he did

far more than anyone.

1) I have never heard him blame anyone for the campaign. He emphasizes that there were very very many things done that were right. In any loss, everyone looks at any flaws. The fact is, he ran a very impressive nomination race, winning far more easily than anyone i remember for an open seat. He also very nearly won - and would have likely won without voter suppression by lack of voting machines in Ohio.

This was in spite of;
- a biased media that didn't even cover pre-designated major speeches and which reduced to 3 hours (from 9) the network coverage of the convention. More despicably, they played with the SBVT in spite of the fact that all the officail records and the people actually there backed Kerry. Contrast that the entire NG story wen away because there were some documants that could not be authenticated.

- A government that cynically used terror warnings to stem any Kerry momentum. (Consider the mental damage this did and the cos to cities to be at the higher alert level)

2004 was a tough year to run. Kerry emerged with grace, dignity and much respect for his knowledge and intellegence, when the media and Republicans, were joined by some of the other Democrats started a second wave of character assination.

2) IWR - Kerry has spoken on this many many times. he has never blamed anyone else. Kerry did speak to many many people while making his decision. He then made up his own mind - and wrote a speech backing it. Every action he took was consistent with the actions he took. Had it been a political vote wouldn't speaking out before the war and after the invasion not fit with that political motive?

[loyalsister]

28. I think Some current candidates may have gotten similar advice.

Particularly John Edwards.
Just about everyone who was angling for higher office voted for it.
I think it's possible that they were banking on a repeat of the gulf war.

They may have trusted that Bush would listen to Powell and involve Bush I advisors and pull off a quick popular war in a time when the U.S. was craving to kick someone's ass.

Then they could claim credit for having been a part of it when running for office. The Democratic party would have been "rehabilitated." No more of that weak on national security stuff.

[Kahuna]

30. Of course. Duh. Kerry, Clinton and Edwards too.

:shrug: