Question: if they extend the funding again in the fall how will you feel?

[madfloridian]

I fully expect the Democrats to keep on funding the war with little oversight. The trade bill shenanigans really made me think about stuff like that.

I am still very upset with them. I talked to 4 congress people today, I talked to all three groups..the DNC, DCCC and DSCC. At one group I got through to someone who was very frustrated and upset with the "inundation" they were getting. It was someone with good knowledge of how the leaders of the party are thinking.

We talked. I assumed the frustration was the same as mine. It wasn't. It was that they were upset because they did not understand why we did not think it was ok to give Bush free rein with the war for four more months. I almost did not know how to respond. I said can he attack Iran now without going back to Congress? They said probably but did not know.

From nearly every place I got the same thing...we don't have the votes so what could we do? I would say weren't there other restrictions that could have been put in the bill. The answer was usually vague.

I realized there is no common ground for holding a discussion at all. The overall feeling I got was why in the world is everyone so upset?

I think they will do the same kind of thing in the fall when the four months is up. Several here are defending it now, and I have not been really adamant...but after today my upset grew.

So to those who think this is fine, what say you? Will it be ok in the fall to give Bush what he wants? I hope if others have called that they got more communicative responses. I got the feeling that we are more of a nuisance to them than a group they need. I hate that feeling.

[Robbien]

1. DC Dems are going to keep catering to the lobbyists who need

the funding bill renewed.

I expect the misunderstanding you kept running into is not the funding bill so much. DC Dems and their office people don't understand why the little people are calling them. They feel that they direct the party. They firmly believe the direction is top down, not bottom up.

[madfloridian]

2. They don't understand our upset.

In one office, an aide was pretty open and said she shared the feelings. But that was about it.

[mike_c]

3. I already feel utterly betrayed, so how much worse will I feel...

...if dems repeat that betrayal in the fall? I don't know-- it's like Churchhill said, at some point all you can do is make the rubble bounce. Further betrayal just makes the rubble of my regard for the democratic party bounce.

[madfloridian]

4. I wonder how many who approve now and lecture us...

will have reservations then.

[Solon]

5. If we "don't have the votes" now, we won't have them in the fall, or anytime, before 2008...

I mean I know that I voted for the lesser of two evils in 2006, I just didn't know how close the evilness is between the two parties.

[elocs]

6. I'll wait until then,

although I don't think we will have to wait until that moment before we know which way the wind is blowing. I am expecting and hoping for a much better result next time.

[MasterDarkNinja]

7. Of course the war will be funded again, the question is with what restrictions

Well of course they're going to renew the war funding later, the question is what new restrictions will or won't be on the new funding bill. The fact of the matter is they're politicians looking out for their own self interests, and right now ironically it's not in the democrats best interest to do something like let the war funding run out and force us out of Iraq yet. To do something like that would kill one of their biggest assets in the 2008 presidential race, and might cost them the election considering how big a factor Iraq was in sweeping the repukes out of power in 06.

The sad reality is continuing to fund the war in Iraq in the current politicial climate will mostly benefit just one party, the democrats, because they're seen as the antiwar party that will end the war in Iraq once they get the power to (as in enough votes in congress, or a new president in the whitehouse).

[Egnever]

8. I dare them!

I triple dog dare them.

I almost hope they do it! It could quite possibly lead to a total reform of our democracy. it could be the straw that breaks the camels back and allows a third part a toe hold. It could actually rouse the sheeple enough to throw them all out and start from scratch.

It would of course be a tragedy for our troops and the poor Iraqi people. But it could spur some amazingly positive changes to the way our democracy is currently malfunctioning.

[LittleClarkie]

9. I'm glad that there are those like Feingold and Kerry who understand

why people are upset and are still out there fighting the good fight.

Has Gov. Dean said anything?

[madfloridian]

10. Thank you so much...

for the little dig...DU never changes. Clarkies never change, Kerry supporters with Clarkie names never change.

Actually I think you know he hasn't. We stopped our monthly payments for now and told the DNC why.

Thanks so much for getting in the dig. It really turned this post into what it wasn't. They threatened him with Harold Ford. Next month after that Ford was chairman of the DLC...waiting his turn at the DNC? Who knows. Reid and Pelosi told him not to speak on issues, to take his cues from them.

He and all of us have choices to make, don't we. The Democrats are not going to end the war, ever. We all know it, we all pretend we don't.

Howard Dean needs to speak out. I have said so here, I have posted about it. Ironically enough, I was told by many that Howard Dean was doing his job.

But you got your little dig in. Didn't you?

And the war will continue because they know we have no options but to support them while they keep us in Iraq.

Sad, but true.

[LittleClarkie]

21. It wasn't a dig. I was asking.

Has he?

I would know if Kerry said anything. I reckon you're the one to ask re: Dean.

That was it. You are the go to person re: Dean. So I went to ya.

[madfloridian]

23. Has he? I answered you clearly.

and completely.

[LittleClarkie]

24. No, you suggested falsely that I made a dig that I did not make

And the only reason you see the same old thing is that's the only thing you look for. If you're going to look for the same in others, you'll generally find it, whether it's there or not.

I might suggest you take a question at face value once in a while.

And I've been somewhat absent for a month or two. So don't assume I've seen things and know things. I probably don't.

It was not a dig, godamnit.

[madfloridian]

25. Well, now we have our permanent war with permission of our Dems.

Four more months should insure we stay forever because there will so much to fix...since we broke it.

I am usually the one jumped on here for standing staunchly with the Democratic Party.

I find it amazing here today.

[welshTerrier2]

11. great post ...

you've done an excellent job highlighting the fact that there are two issues here; not just one.

the Democratic Party is badly out of touch with its constituents. we are not just "a group that they need". there has been an enormous reaction to what the Democrats did on the Iraq funding bill. ENORMOUS. they know they have to fix it.

but the underlying issue goes way beyond Iraq. the underlying issue is that they were badly unprepared for the reaction they got.

what does it tell you about the state of our party and the state of our democracy when those in power have no clue about how their constituents feel on the most critical issue of the day? you said it perfectly, "there is no common ground for holding a discussion at all." It's not because we might disagree on policy; it's because those we elected are almost invisible to us. they need to start holding regular public forums in their districts. they need to value the democratic process. they need to bring the voice of the people back into the halls of government.

the dark cloud hanging over the party is as much their failure to understand those who elected them as it is that they chose to continue funding a war and occupation that cannot possibly produce even an iota of progress. these are very dark days indeed ...

sure, I'll k&r this thread ...

[jmp]

12. The surge will be extended ...

The surge will be extended and funded for another 6 months. You can bet the farm on it.

[ValiantBlue]

19. Unfortunately you may be right becuase

they may be banking on using the Iraq War as a tool to help Democrats gain the Presidency. But this could backfire and they end up losing the Presidency. We shall see when September rolls around but I am not convinced a few months will sway those Republicans on the fence.

[doggyboy]

13. I'd feel that

people need to redouble their efforts and persuade more people to take action to end this war.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. I will count votes, and not blame the Democrats.

I will count the number of votes it would take to override a veto, and the number of votes the Democrats have, and I will therefor refrain from blaming the Democrats for not achieving the mathematically impossible.

[NoPasaran]

15. I'll feel

"Just 14 months until we elect a President who will end George Bush's War"

and

"Just sixteen until she takes office"

[madfloridian]

16. And who will that be?

And are you sure? Most are missing my point that all the calls I made showed they simply did not understand why any of us would be upset.

They seem to know and be using the fact that we really have no other choice.

Giving Bush 4 months and 100 billion was not ok. They seem to think it was.

I don't.

[NoPasaran]

17. I expect she will be

The one who said "If the war is still going on when I become President, I will end it."

But I feel that ANY of our candidates would bring Bush's War to a speedy conclusion (not necessarily the same as evacuating the country on Jan. 21). And all the Repubs except Ron Paul seem to favor staying there forever. Those are the choices as I see them.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

18. You're right

100%

[ToeBot]

20. The US wont be out of Iraq until there is a Democrat in the WH willing to suffer...

whatever consequences the pullout will entail; as well as suffer whatever political fallout the Republicans can invent. It's not going to be pretty and the opposition will do their damnedest to make it as horrific as possible. I'm not sure which of the Democrats on the campaign trail will have the fortitude (or even the desire) to do what is necessary. One way or another the Democrats are destined to own this mess, believe it.

[madfloridian]

22. I have been called a Good German for supporting the party.

I am questioning the secret trade deal lately and the lack of restrictions in the funding bill....

And it is amazing.

Now watch the forum is exploding in "I stand with the Democrats" posts.

So questioning is out, standing with the party through thick and thin will get one called Good German.

The calls yesterday showed me they are totally out of touch with where we are, and it does not bother them.

They know we don't have any other choices, and they are using that now. And Bush will use that power to harm others just as he always has.

[madfloridian]

26. Miltary already talking about needing a longer time past September.

Remember this statement bringing up Vietnam from December 2005....

Stay a little longer, just another year

"I've seen this before in my life. This is the same situation we had in Vietnam. Everybody then kept saying, 'just another year, just stay the course, we'll have a victory.' Well, we didn't have a victory, and this policy cost the lives of an additional 25,000 troops because we were too stubborn to recognize what was happening."

Well, now this.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N31220099.htm

The September report is widely viewed as a watershed for the unpopular U.S.-led war, with Democrats and some Republicans saying they could back a troop withdrawal absent evidence of progress.

"Right now if you asked me, I would tell you I'll probably need a little bit more time to do a true assessment," Odierno said at a Pentagon news briefing where he appeared via video link from Iraq.

"I will provide my assessment to Gen. Petraeus who will then take that forward," he said. "If I think I might need a little more time, I will give an assessment saying that I'd like to have more time."

"That will be part of the assessment that I make," Odierno added.

He declined to say how much extra time he might need: "We still have ... 90 to 100 days until Labor Day." The U.S. Labor Day holiday is Sept. 3."

They will keep moving the time they need.

We can not keep playing this game.