IMMIGRATION: The Times They Are A-Changin'

[polichick]

Here's an anonymous bit I got in an email:



2,000 years ago, Moses said,

"Pick up your shovel,... pack your ass,... mount your camel ...and I shall lead you to the Promised Land."


200-plus years ago, George Washington said,

"Get off your ass,... use your shovel,... clear the land, ...grow plants for camels ...and it will be the Promised Land."


Last year, the Congress of the United States said

"Si, Amigos, throw away your shovel,... sit on your ass, ...light your Camels, ...we're giving you the Promised Land."



What do you think???

1. What do I think?

I think illegal immigration is the modern form of slavery. It's not a matter of these people doing jobs Americans won't do. But rather Americans are doing the jobs the illegals can't do.

[polichick]

3. imo the system is wrong on so many levels...

I agree that it does seem like slavery in some ways.

It also greatly taxes community services, which residents have to pay for. (Hospitals, schools, etc.)

Quality of life has been reduced due to overcrowding in many places. (Traffic, loss of open space, etc.) I think we have enough "huddled masses" thank you very much, and should export economic aid, technology, etc. rather than import people. I also think we need zero population growth until we get our infrastructure in order ~ we should give tax breaks to Americans who have two or fewer kids, not breaks for each child.

Threatens national security ~ in reality we have no "homeland security."

It's a freebie for big business and rich folks.

Etc., etc., etc....

[LBJDemocrat]

8. It essentially is a transfer of wealth

We have to pay more for community services, and our wages diminish. Wall Street pockets what we lose because they get an abundant supply of slaves. At the same time, Mexico can rest assured that it'll be easier to rig elections since they'll have fewer discontented people around.

[polichick]

9. I agree...

Once again it's the middle class that gets screwed!

[unlawflcombatnt]

14. 0 Population Growth

I completely agree with you about 0 Population growth. Furthermore, the constant influx of workers increases the American labor supply, and reduces American wages as a result. The only benefactors are those employers who get lower-priced labor. The employers that illegally hire reap the most benefits. But all employers also benefit due to the increase in total supply of labor.

[polichick]

18. Zero Pop Growth seems to be a hard sell in the US

It's absurd that we still get tax credits for each child, no matter how many. The Native American practice of looking ahead several generations just isn't attractive to a country that can't see beyond the next fiscal quarter. Sigh...

[Robson]

2. We need to educate our own

I do know that the USA needs to upgrade and educate its workforce to stay competitive in the globalization scam that big business and the capitalist elite have perpetrated on the nation as gospel cast in stone.

Adding 100 million uneducated unskilled persons to our existing workforce is only escalating the problem, not solving it. We no longer need "just bodies" as was the case in the 1800s and early 1900s, we need a nation with the wealth to educate all its citizens first and foremost. We don't need cheap labor for business.

[polichick]

4. Definitely...

The US has lost its lead when it comes to cutting edge research and tech. advances ~ glad to hear some of the candidates addressing this.

[LBJDemocrat]

7. BULLSHIT

There are plenty of educated Americans who already are unemployed or underemployed. The issue is not and has NEVER been educational level. The issue is that Americans are used to getting paid well. That's why engineers and bankers are being imported from China and India.

[Robson]

11. Based upon current trends, USA will soon be on a level playing field with 3rd world countries

The benefits of education are becoming more debatable, but I can assure you that what the USA does not need are tens of millions of unskilled laborers from Mexico or anywhere.

We need to worry about our own and not Mexico or not China. If it was up to me we would only offer a net balanced trade to China, India and elsewhere. If they don't buy commensurate amounts from us we don't buy from them. We'd be far better off as a nation being mostly self sufficient with manufacturing done here than depending upon cost efficiencies offered by cheap labor.

The USA is in decline relative to the rest of the world. Our dollar has seen a 50% decline since Bush too office. Most of us couldn't afford to sell our house in the USA and take the proceeds and buy something similar elsewhere in the world. We're becoming a third world nation with a small and very rich elitist subgroup (on both right and left) that controls the wealth and power in our country.

Lou Dobbs is one of the few in the media that even talks about it. I'm frustrated by those who criticize him because they are more concerned with their little pet issues, than what is happening to our country.

[polichick]

19. All of what you say is true imo

And Lou Dobbs has been relentless in trying to help people get it. We definitely are giving away the Promised Land ~ to illegals, to China, even to folks who want to buy our roadways! How crazy is it when states start selling their major highways to other countries??

[unlawflcombatnt]

15. Amen

"There are plenty of educated Americans who already are unemployed or underemployed."

Lack of education is not why Americans are losing jobs. Americans are losing jobs because similarly-educated foreign workers will work for less, and our politicians are encouraging those foreign workers to come to the United States, while encouraging Corporate America to send jobs to cheap-labor foreign countries.

This is not a problem that can be fixed by more "education."
Unless our workers are going to be "educated" on how to survive on 3rd-world wages.

[EstimatedProphet]

5. What do I think?

I think you should write back the asshole that emailed that crap to you and call him a racist bigot, tell him to peel the big confederate flag off the back of his '52 pickup, put down the shotgun and the jug of white lightning and go clean the shitstains out of his white robe. And then tell him never email you again. And send it to everyone in the email chain.

[polichick]

6. Lol

Don't hold back!

(I never could resist stirring the shit a little. :smoke:)

[polichick]

10. Just for the record...

The person sending the email wasn't agreeing, just passing along something they'd come across ~ like I did here. Your post was humorous, but it sure did make me think of the term "knee jerk liberal."

[EstimatedProphet]

12. Well, whoever wrote it is a racist jackass

It doesn't matter who. It's very clearly pointing at Mexicans as lazy moochers. I could care less whether it's "knee-jerk" or not to say so.

[polichick]

13. I don't like that lazy insinuation either...

...but I think the point about language is important. As far as language goes, this latest flood of immigrants are certainly catered to in a way that earlier groups weren't. imo, immigrants should learn English ~ same way I'd learn Italian if moving to Italy or Spanish if moving to Mexico. I think we're making a mistake with that. And I do think we are giving away the promised land when we ask middle-class Americans to pick up the bill for illegals and their families. Plus, we're subsidizing big business.

[EstimatedProphet]

16. The point about language is bullshit

Do you know why cartoon strips were invented? They were invented because all the immigrants at the turn of the last century spoke something other than English. Cartoon strips gave the immigrants something they could understand - pictures instead of English. None of our traditional big waves of immigrants came to this country speaking English, except the ones already speaking it.

If you are so afraid of what immigrants are going to do to our country, why not be concerned with what our government is doing to their countries to cause them to want to come here illegally? Immigrants add to the economy too, so claiming that they are such a huge drain on the middle class is not true. What is the real drain on the middle class is the businesses that pay people $5 a day to work in slave conditions. You just bring up subsidizing big business as a throwaway point, where big business greed is singlehandedly destroying the middle class and doing far more damage to the middle class than the illegals you hate so much.

Plus, you come to DU and post racist crap, then gripe when I point out that it's racist crap. The situation is a lot more complex than the simplistic jingoistic freeper email you trot out and expect to get applause in posting.

[polichick]

17. Your knee-jerk reactions seem to impair your reading ability.

I didn't say that earlier waves of immigrants came here speaking English, just that the US didn't change its language practices for them. Instead, immigrants learned to speak English ~ not too much to expect. As I said, I would learn to speak Spanish if I moved to Mexico ~ also, not too much to expect.

Big business greed is the reason we haven't closed the borders as part of "homeland security" ~ and perhaps you've never lived in a border area where you are expected to pick up the tab for hospitalization, schools etc. for illegals, but those folks subsidize big business continuously.

Changing our immigration laws is not about hate, it's about putting the people of the US first instead of sticking them with bills that aren't theirs.

I believe we should be exporting technology and other aid ~ not importing people for slave labor or anything else. I'm for zero population growth in the US (that means all of us), at least until we get our infrastructure and resources under control.

All this you could have gleaned from my posts if you weren't so bent out of shape about a piece that was only meant to start a conversation and didn't necessarily express my views, as I already said. Knee-jerk liberals do much to hurt the progressive cause because they're so easy for Reps to right off.