DLC Dems - Driving Bush's Getaway Car

[arendt]

I refuse to "get over" the serial betrayal of the electoral mandate by the DLC wing of the Democratic Party. I have had it with them making secret, fast-track trade deals with Bush. I have had it with their reluctance to simply indict Alberto Gonzalez, who is already convicted on the basis of the sworn testimony of James Comey. And, the absolute last straw was the vote to fund the Iraq War with no conditions. These are not minor things. The last two items are high crimes, and the refusal to act on them is an indication of more than mere political cowardice. It is an indication of an inside job. The location of "inside" being the Democratic Party; and the perpetrators of the inside job being the DLC.

Let me offer an analogy that might penetrate even the TV-addled brains of the average American.

The Bush Gang has already committed its crimes. It has robbed the American middle class blind and sentenced its children to a greatly diminished future. It has murdered the Constitution in cold blood - clause by clause, article by article, gleefully, with malice aforethought. To cover its domestic crimes, it has started a gunfight with the Al Quaida gang across town to keep the cops busy and the public distracted and pinned down. Now, this gang of political desperadoes are making a run for the border - they want to run out the clock on the Bush Administration without anyone being impeached; without the Constitution being restored; without the Iraq War being stopped. That is a successful heist.

And, the DLC are behaving like a bunch of hinky cops, on the take from the perpetrators. The DLC are "cops" who are busy giving police cars flat tires, jamming the police radio, and generally "slow walking" an investigation about felons who are in the process of fleeing the jurisdiction.

By the Iraq funding cave-in, the DLC has narrowed the window for meaningful political action to the three months between the September revisit of funding and the December onset of primary season (during which nothing will be done). Thanks a lot, DLC. You just drove Bush half way to the border.

To continue the most apt "fleeing criminal" analogy, the DLC can be charged exactly as a getaway driver would be: accessory after the fact. How many police shows have you seen where they throw the book at the driver? Why is anyone surprised that the honest cops in the corrupt Democratic party are livid at these dirty, bent dishonors to the force.

As usual, our corporations have "belt and suspendered" their takeover of our government. Clearly, Bush has outlived his usefulness, so the plutocrats are setting up the DLC as their next puppet government. If the Bush Gang makes it to the border and the DLC are the power behind the throne in a new Democratic administration, it is game over for the Constitution. Bush's behavior will become horrible precedents for more anti-democracy behavior.

So, just as we vainly prayed for a Joe Valachi to spill the beans on the Bush mob, we should now be praying for some DLC insider to be sickened by the sell out of the American public to the same old bunch of corporate aristocats by people who are nominally Democrats. Where is Serpico when you need him?

arendt

[Flabbergasted]

1. The first response is vital.

That is a great rant.

[Gregorian]

2. Totally recommended.

Critical thinking. We've been divided. Focus on how to heal the division.

[Edweird]

87. We have divided ourselves. "my party right or wrong" vs. "something is wrong"

And something IS wrong.

[AbsolutNickUSN]

103. How to "heal the division"

Respect the concept that in a nation of many different beliefs there are going to be those that don't always "fall in line" If the Democratic Party is the Party of diversity, unity, and inclusivity then perhaps the best way to "heal" the division is greater tolerance of more "conservative" leaning Democrats, Seems the truly Democratic thing to do.

[arendt]

104. Someone who enables Bush is not a "conservative leaning Dem" he is a traitor

Please define "conservative". Make the definition suitable for deciding who supports Bush's
assault on the Constitution, the middle class, and the military.

As I started this whole thread with:

DLC dems cut a secret trade deal with Bush to screw the middle class. Is that "conservative"?

DLC dems supported Iraq funding with no strings to further damage the military. Is that "conservative"?

DLC dems have supported all the Patriot Acts and Military Commisions Acts that destroy our Constitutiion. Is that "conservative"?

This division is beyond healing. The DLC gives no quarter, just like Bush. So they must be met in kind or they
will simply steal our party.

arendt

[AbsolutNickUSN]

108. I myself am uncomfortable with the overuse of the word "traitor"

It's hard for me to define "conservative" outside the manner in which popular culture has defined it i.e. pro life, anti gun control, pro OIF, etc


Generally speaking I regard "conservative" Democrats more along the line of centrists

What's left of the party after the DLC is destroyed, eliminated, whatever? Again I"ve always understood the Democratic party to be the party of inclusivity. How does it live up to this attribute if it cuts off the blue dogs like the DLC in the name of party politics? Does that not betray the principles upon which the Democratic party espouses?


I support Iraq funding "with no strings" not out of loyalty to the President, but loyalty to the mission in Iraq and those responsible for it's execution on the ground in Iraq, having been one of them for a nine month period. The military would have been more damaged with the "strings" My Senators Barb Mikulski consistently voted for funding since the beginning of OIF despite voting against authorization. Militarily speaking the strings (timetables) wouldn't have helped.

I'm active duty military, as such I am prevented from disrespecting President Bush as a matter of military protocol. I've not been thrilled with many of his policies but realistically the only way the Democratic majority is going to get anything accomplished is some measure of compromise and cooperation.

[arendt]

111. I long resisted using the word "traitor", but now that the Constitution is shredded...

I feel it is the only word left to describe the people we elected in 2006 to impeach these
bastards and stop this war. They are half way to letting Bush get away with the most
egregious set of crimes ever committed against the Constitution.

After two exchanges, I have the feeling that you are cocooned in a cloud of rhetoric
that I will never penetrate. But, I will try one more time:

----

Nice to hear that the only way to "be loyal to the mission" is to send more kids over to
get killed. I just do not understand that mindset.

I have listened to six years of constantly shifting reasons for this debacle. First, we were
lied to (WMDs, supporting terrorists - your boogeyman Al Qaida) and pressured to start
the war. Now the troops are being used as hostages to keep the war going, which you
whole-heartedly support.

Pray tell, other than enriching the mercenaries and the oil companies, what is this so-called
mission we are being loyal to? Ask the grunts on the ground. They don't know either. They
asked Holy Joe Lieberman, charter member of the DLC and outright traitor to the Democratic
Party, "so when do we get to go home?".

"be loyal to the mission" is meaningless babble, just like "war on terror". Again, this in
no way denigrates the sacrifice of the people who went there. In fact, they deserve better
than these thought-stoppiing slogans. They deserve the truth. Why were they sent there?
Why have they been given sub-standard armor? Why has the VA been cut? Why are their
tours being extended and extended and extended again?

Why do you not want to talk about those issues in this shitty war?

Since you brought up the subject of your service, and since your handle includes USN, may
I ask exactly where your active service was performed? e.g., on the ground in Iraq.

arendt

[AbsolutNickUSN]

113. You raise SOME good points......

"They deserve the truth. Why were they sent there?
Why have they been given sub-standard armor? Why has the VA been cut? Why are their
tours being extended and extended and extended again?"

You'll get little argument from me that these are questions that should be answered satisfactorily. I just don't see how stopping the war equates an answer.

I support the over all mission there I volunteered for ground duty in OIF "Operation Iraqi Freedom" I believed that Saddam should have been brought to justice, I believe that part of the solution in Iraq is a military solution. The solution that has been sold by the administration? To say I've questioned it would be an understatement. Now given my feeling on the matter is support of this "shitty war" hoping for a victorious resolution for a secured peace and believing that peace can be secured in part by military action, treason to the Democratic party?


I ask when do I get to go back over there as much as when do we go home. Screw the catchy slogans I'm thinking beyond that. Not all of the guys over there are as concerned with going home as is made to believe. Some are I have known some. Some are burnt out from their extensions. Others relish the opportunity to be a part of it in the hopes of making a difference. Some are even registered Democrats. Is it un Democratic to support military efforts in Iraq?

[arendt]

116. APOLOGIES. I missed this reply. It is confusing, we are at two opposite ends of 100 posts

Let me look at this.

I temporarily hold off on my most recent (prior to this) response.

arendt

[arendt]

117. It is un-democratic and un-Democratic

You ask "is it un-Democratic to support military efforts in Iraq?"

I would say, after six years of this fiasco, after the 2006 elections, with polls showing
that more than 60% of Americans think we should never have gone there and we should
get out ASAP, that is certainly un-democratic (small d) for a politician to continue to
support this pointless and unsuccessful wastage of our soldiers' lives and limbs and of
our military strength in general. The surge has produced only increased casualties and
increased chaos. This war is costing a fortune. There are other ways to fight Islamic militants.
Like maybe we could pressure the Saudis to stop funding fundamentalist madrassas all over
Pakistan.

My point is that there are other rational ways to prosecute this conflict. The current
presence in the middle of a civil war when practically no one on our side even speaks
the language is surreally absurd. Million dollar vehicles are being blown up by homemade
explosives. Blackwater mercenaries are ambushed by guys in Iraqi Army uniforms.
It is simply a stupid, stupid place to be.

Bush's war is the equivalent of G. Gordon Liddy putting a cigarette lighter to his hand.
When asked "What's the trick?", he said "There is no trick, you just have to take the pain."
This war is a pointless exercise in machoism. Only it is the American people who take
the casualties and the American taxpayer who pays the corrupt contractors.

The GOP refuses to address any of this. And so do the DLC. The majority of Dem voters
want the war to be over. So, I submit it is un-Democratic to support continuing as before
in Iraq.

----

I salute your willingness to volunteer and fight. However, at some point, you must ask
if the fighting is worth the game. Are you aware that gang members are joining the Army
to learn how to use weapons? And the desperate recruiters are waiving rules to let them
in? We are wrecking our military to continue an unwinnable fight.

Is that really what you want to support.

arendt

[arendt]

105. Duplicate, sorry.

[stimbox]

3. DLC, the enemy within.

Time for a purge.

[Cleita]

4. I don't consider the DLC democrats but another brand of

business friendly conservatives. It may get to the point where to keep democracy going we might all have to start working to get Green Party candidates into office like in cities, counties and on up to get back to our base. The Democrats will then be just another conservative party, but at least we will have a liberal one in place. Before anyone flames me it's just a train of thought here and I'm not seriously suggesting this anytime soon unless it get's so bad we have to.

[truedelphi]

27. I'm with you all the way on this.

The DLC operates in the local environment as well.

Whenever there is an environment where the stakes are high enough, then they oversee the process.

Feinstein has a lock on a lot of the political goings on inside the SF Bay area. Yet she hardly represents the average Democrat - exceopt for the abortion issue and her "appearances" of being pro-environment -she is hardly a Demcorat. But if you wanna run locally - you have to be in her good graces.

[truth2power]

60. I applaud and agree with your point that

we may have to start working to get Green Party candidates elected, but that's never going to happen (at least at the National level) unless Instant Runoff Voting is in place to break the hold of the two party system on our electoral process.

How that's ever going to happen I don't know, because the corporations, who are the real power in this country, will spend a google zillion dollars to convince the sheep that instant runoff voting will bring Socialism :scared: or failing that, some variety of terminal toenail fungus to any and all who even think about supporting it.

Which, BTW, brings up another point. Time to revisit Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad and the nonsense that gave corporations personhood. Cue another corporate propaganda campaign!

[Cleita]

79. Yes, before party politics we need to get instant runoff voting.

This might not be as hard as you think since voting laws are regional not national. So if citizens in each region demand instant runoff voting in their area it could start other regions to demanding it. Something to think about.

[truth2power]

82. I started researching this awhile back, and it seems

there are groups all around the country trying to get some traction on this. There are websites to get more info. I'm snowed-under with a project today, so don't have time to look, but will try to do so later.

In any case, I'm still convinced that if the possibility of Instant Runoff ever gets to be a threat to the corporate thugs (candidates not beholden to corporate money and all) they'll weigh-in.

Three things that are more important, even, than contacting our congress-critters. Cut them out of the loop and focus on (in any order):

1. Revisiting corporate personhood
2. Public funding of elections (get the money out of the system)
3. Instant runoff voting

Secondary to Cheney/Bush charged with treason and packed off to the Hague, our best chance to reclaim our Democracy, IMHO.

[Cleita]

88. That's a big order although I do agree with you. n/t

[truth2power]

100. Agreed. Not in my lifetime, I'm afraid! n/t

[alittlelark]

5. The DLC = pro-choice corporatists.

[Mojambo]

6. Quite accurate. n/t

[Dr.Phool]

7. Read this Buzzflash editorial.

Paging Sergeant Joe Friday, Paging Sergeant Friday. Please Report to the Democrats on Capitol Hill. They Need You Badly.
Submitted by BuzzFlash on Sat, 06/02/2007 - 6:21am. Editorials

A BUZZFLASH EDITORIAL

The Democrats on Capitol Hill sure do need Sergeant Joe Friday to help them out.

You see, the D.C. Dems, especially now that that they are "investigating" the Bush Administration, keep tripping over dead bodies – and doing their damn best to convince themselves that they just stumbled over a rug, not a corpse.

It’s amazing how many contortions the Dems go through in order to avoid actually holding the Bush Administration accountable for high crimes and misdemeanors.

Just look at the multiple legal, ethical, and perjury violations of America’s Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales. He’s like one of the dead bodies that the Dems keep coming across – and then they claim that they won’t rush to judgement about whether or not the cadaver with multiple bullet wounds in its back was a victim of foul play. When the Democrats uncover a Bush Administration crime through an investigation, their response is to call for another investigation "to get to the bottom of this."

(snip)much more

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorials/138

[arendt]

11. Yep. It looks like, in the scripted farce that is politics today, the Dems are supposed to...

act the role of inept wimps, the Washington Generals; while the GOP get to act the role of hot shots, the Harlem Globetrotters.

I am really sick of this script. If America doesn't have some unscripted moments soon, the Constitution will be a brand name for some corporate candybar or SUV.

arendt

[Moochy]

14. Constitution Candy

And Here are the constitution candy you were askin about :+

http://cgi.ebay.com/CONSTITUTION-LOLLIES-CHOCOLATE-CANDY-MOLD-MOLDS_W0QQitemZ170022462981QQihZ007QQcategoryZ13926QQcmdZViewItem

[orleans]

17. ha!

"When the Democrats uncover a Bush Administration crime through an investigation, their response is to call for another investigation "to get to the bottom of this.""

no shit! (your link)

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Our Actions Have Told Them To Do This

There is ZERO political penalty to be paid for enabling the crazy-Right - just look at Edwards and Mrs. Clinton who shilled for the war. Most Democrats voted against the thing, but two of the three top candidates voted for it - hell, one was a CO-SPONSOR, and, judging from DU, that hasn't hurt him one iota. (Clinton and Edwards both were supporters of permanent 'free' trade with China - that hasn't hurt them either - NOBODY seems to give a rat's ass on that one).

On the other hand, there's a potential to be harmed by going to war with the Right.

[Raster]

9. Cowards, collaborators and accomplices.

:kick:

[CGowen]

10. your Serpico is more like Scarface

[cosmicdot]

12. knr

[LibertyorDeath]

13. "the plutocrats are setting up the DLC as their next puppet government."

puppet government

Until enough Americans say enough of this shit

that's precisely what they're going to get

Puppet governments payed for by corporate America

Great post arendt

Rec!!

[illinoisprogressive]

15. we need to never vote for DLC candidates. They are traitors.

And they will destroy this party and it's identity if they can and then pull us to the center right. This little club needs to be shut down for good and the only way we can is to not vote for DLC candidates. We need to send a message that it's over for them. They are puke.
We need to get a list of who is now in the DLC

[rhett o rick]

23. Agree, we need to get commitments on which side democrats are on.

They are either for democracy or against it. Put Sen. Bill Nelson's name on the non-democracy side. He voted to continue torture.

[Vidar]

16. K&R.

[orleans]

18. if you haven't heard this "bit" at the top of this clip, you should

it was on randi's show thursday (5/24/07)

http://www.wilem.com/rrs/rrs_20070524_002.mp3

[arendt]

20. Wussocrats - and that hapless, effeminate dweeb...LOL...thanks...n/t

[Totally Committed]

37. WUSSOCRATS! ----------- I love it!

Thank you for making me laugh, when all these creeps make me want to do is cry.

TC

[maggiegault]

19. Amen. Recommended.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. History will judge the Democratic Party harshly for giving up so

easily on reining in the Bush administration.

NO administration ever deserved mass impeachment so completely, and no administration ever faced such a compromised, lily-livered opposition.

[az chela]

24. So the big question is how do you tell them apart???

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

25. For progressive leadership look to the "Black Caucus" --

Though even they have gotten contaminated with Carrie Meek's son having voted for the bankruptcy bill.

But, my experience is, this is where you find truth and progressive ideas.

Conyers, certainly delivers, except when he is held back by Pelosi.

As far as response, we can take a clue from the founders -- and the false flag operation of "Indians" dumping tea.

We have a corporate-economy. There's are ways to make our feelings heard.

We can begin with the car.

[loudsue]

54. That's the line my thinking has been taking. We need to shut down

government support of corporations over the rights of THE PEOPLE. There needs to be a MAJOR push-back by the people (us) who are being screwed by corporate policies.

In the '60s, we called them "the establishment" -- which was an appropriate name for them, because they had so thoroughly established themselves as part of our government, and the policies our government was pushing on U.S. citizens and the world.

We need a big, nasty push-back.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Me.]

26. With Malice Aforethought

You are so right about getaway drivers. Now the question we must ask ourselves is which candidate/s are most closely aligned with the DLC, and that person/s shouldn't be given a chance in hell of getting in.

[Maraya1969]

28. No more money for them until they start impeachment proceedings

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1029212

[Zodiak]

29. HEre is my list of Senators and their scores.

Harkin (Iowa) 82.75862069
Boxer (California) 82.75862069
Feingold (Wisconsin) 82.75862069
Kennedy (Massacheusetts) 77.5862069
Corzine (New Jersey) now Gov. 76.66666667
Lautenberg (New Jersey) 75.86206897
Durbin (Illinois) 75.86206897
Akaka (Hawaii) 75.86206897
Sarbanes (Maryland) 72.4137931
Kerry (Massacheusetts) DLC 70.68965517
Leahy (Vermont) 70.68965517
Levin (Michigan) 68.96551724
Mikulski (Maryland) 68.96551724
Reed (Rhode Island) 68.96551724
Biden (Deleware) 67.24137931
Dodd (Connecticut) 65.51724138
Wyden (Oregon) 65.51724138
Dayton (Minnesota) 65.51724138
Obama (Illinois) 63.79310345
Bayh (Indiana) DLC 60.34482759
Murray (Washington) 60.34482759
Schumer (New York) DLC 58.62068966
Inouye (Hawaii) DLC 56.89655172
Bingaman (New Mexico) 56.89655172
Dorgan (North Dakota) DLC 55.17241379
Reid (Nevada) 55.17241379
Byrd (West Virginia) 55.17241379
Clinton (New York) DLC 53.44827586
Menendez (New Jersey) DLC 50
Cantwell (Washington) DLC 48.27586207
Stabenow (Michigan) DLC 46.55172414
Kohl (Wisconsin) DLC 44.82758621
Feinstein (California) DLC 44.82758621
Leiberman (Connecticut) DLC 44.82758621
Rockefeller (West Virginia) 41.37931034
Conrad (North Dakota) DLC 41.37931034
Baucus (Montana) DLC 39.65517241
Carper (Deleware) DLC 34.48275862
Johnson (South Dakota) DLC 31.03448276
Lincoln (Arkansas) DLC 31.03448276
Salazar (Colorado) DLC 24.13793103
Pryor (Arkansas) DLC 22.4137931
Nelson (Florida) DLC 20.68965517
Landrieu (Louisianna) DLC 17.24137931
Nelson (Nebraska) DLC 3.448275862

Here is a list of all of our Senators from the last Congress and their progressive voting records from the last Congress. Notice who votes the lowest? You guessed it.....the DLC.

By the way, Kerry has a lot of problems with the DLC even though he is/was a member I should remove his name from the DLC list, but for the sake of consistency, I have not on this list.

[Yukari Yakumo]

30. Something strike to me as "interesting"

Look at where the bottom Senators are from, seems many of them are from "Red States". You have to wonder if they're voting what their constituency wants vice the party.

BTW... Why do you have LIEberman still on that list?

[greendog]

32. Are Red State voters insisting...

...that their jobs be outsourced to the third world?

[Zodiak]

34. Ahh...thanks for responding to that post.

I couldn; read it, but apparently the tired "red state" argument that DLC Democrats favor was levelled. Here is a map of Bush's approval before it took the last two dives (since the Nov. election). Which of these "red states" are they representing, because it looks to me that many states in the South do like the Dimson MoFo any more.



So who is the DLC representing? Obviously not their constituents, even in "red states".

The "red states" no longer provide the DLC Democrats any cover. They are moles.

[sellitman]

31. You can remove Joe LIEberman from the list.

He ain't even a Dem.

He is an Independant under the "Joe LIEberman Party".

[Zodiak]

33. this is from the 109th Congress

When I do the 110th, I will make that switch

[Yukari Yakumo]

86. In which case...

A more accurate chart to use would be the 2004 elections, not 2006 polls.



O - Non-DLCer
Q - Non-DLCer, but low rated
Y - DLCer, but high rated
X - DLCer

My assertion seems more true with a few exceptions.

[cui bono]

97. Lieberman... party of 1. n/t

[loudsue]

57. Thank you for producing that list. It should be called the "TO DO" list.

What we need to do is get rid of the DLCers, and replace them with REAL Democrats. Regardless how "purple" their constituencies might be, we need to get to work. How 'bout the House of Representatives? They need to be cleaned out, as well.

:kick:

[Zodiak]

81. Well, if you can find someone who is willing to do it

The Senate was hard enough with tracking only 100 Senators (much less 435), and then there are difference from DUers to DUers as to what is defined as "liberal".

Everyone should get their own barometer....if you want to see what mine was for the 109th, look at my journal. I did this 4 times over the last Congress.

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. DLC Dems should really find themselves another party.

They're getting to be as schmoley as the Libertarian Party.

[Totally Committed]

36. They seem to be pretty effective at hi-jacking this one...

It may be us who need to find another Party before this is over.

They are insidious, persistent, have all the corporate $$$ behind them, and they are determined to make this Party THEIR Party. They wanna OWN it.

If another DLC candidate makes it to the nomination for POTUS, I am gone, whether or not she/he wins. They will have staged their coup successfully, and I want no part of their agenda.

TC

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. Don't leave.

DLC represent the rich people in the Democratic Party. YOU and people in my situation represent the majority.

We just need to show the middle class to lower class Democratic voter that they're voting against their interest when they go with DLC. Sort of the same problem that blue collar Republicans have when they vote in a silver spoon, spoiled brat like Bush.

[Totally Committed]

41. I agree with you 100%, but...

after decades of working for this Party, donating to this Party, voting for this Party, to see this DLC takeover is disheartening. I'm done. It's like trying to swim against the current for years. At first the current makes you stronger, but as the years pass, all it does is make you tired.

One of my daughters said this to me recently, and she's right: "America has the government the government wants it to have. The corporations want this government. The churches want this government. What makes you think anyone will listen to the base over all those concerns? You're still tilting at windmills, Mum." No one cares what you or I or the poor or the homeless want and/or need... not even the Democratic Party. I used to think they did, but they don't. When they caved last week, my suspicions were substantiated.

And, so it remains to be seen if the DLC will prevail AGAIN to get one of it's DINO candidates nominated by convincing those who don't pay attention until the last minute that their candidate is a winner. Those people will want to get on thebandwagon and vote for the winner. What they don't realize is with a Republican and a DLC candidate running, a Republican will win no matter who they vote for.

I'm getting too old and too tired to try and make these people wise the hell up and get a clue. Let's see eho gets nominated, and then we'll talk.

TC

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. The blogs, the blogs, the blogs! That's what's different.

Slowly but surely, awareness is beginning to spread across this country. And what true Dems need to do, is not start a new party, but show the Dems who are just opening their eyes, that DLCers are the problem, NOT the Democratic party. You've got to get them to associate DLC with the equivalence of a liquid fart in a public library. PUT the blame for everything that goes wrong, on the DLC. This is NOT just a fight for the party, it's a fight for this country.

[Totally Committed]

44. I already do that. I promise you, I do........

No one hates the DLC more than I do. And, I am vocal about it. I write e-mails, blog entries... I talk it up to people I know and sometimes, to strangers if the opportunity presents itself.

I'll hang in here as long as I can, I promise.

TC

[The Backlash Cometh]

45. Good for you. You're one of the good ones.

It's easy for me to play armchair quarterback. I just want you to know that your efforts are appreciated.

By the way, I have a dream. I have a dream that DLCers like Hillary Clinton will someday personally connect with the needs of the DNC base, and on that that day, there will be magic.

[Totally Committed]

46. Thank you, Backlash. That is such a sweet post.

I appreciate it.

And, while I'm at it... right back atcha, my friend. From your mouth to the ears the Universe: Let there be magic.

TC

[TankLV]

61. It's like the honerable generals leaving the Pentagon.

The good guys leave in protest, and what's left is only the corrupt bush* asskissers and WAR CRIMINALS...

If all the good people leave an organization, then that organization will be peopled with only the criminals and there will be no one left to change it for the better...

[arendt]

68. Feels good, but results are bad. You want only Bush generals running the military? n/t

[Lerkfish]

39. *applause*

thank you.

[Tellurian]

40. Senators don't have the power to Impeach...It's the House of Representatives...

The House of Representatives has to vote to Impeach!!!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemDem07]

47. DLC=Democrat Loathing Centrists

K+R

[arendt]

48. To all: thanks for the validation. It is very empowering to know that DU is wise to...

these corporate puppets.

Now, given these folks are pretending to be Democrats, we ought to be able to find or
convince some member of their staffs to blow the whistle on the whole rotten operation.
Its not like we are completely shut out, like with the GOP/fundie secret police operation.

Anybody here work for or know someone who works for one of these DINOs? Its time we
started playing the game their way. Ditto for faux populist columnists who give these people
false cover as being real Democrats.

What kind of leverage can we get on these people?

arendt

[DKRC]

49. K&R!

Well said arendt!

:applause:

[arendt]

50. Tactically, I think its better to fight them from inside the party (at least before the nomination)

They don't own the party. Progressive forces have a base in the Congress and at the DNC.
We shouldn't abandon those positions of access, visibility, and (however compromised) power
until they have been overrun.

I know that the primaries are being rolled up and stacked so that only a deep pockets (corporate)
candidate can get the publicity needed for what is , de facto, a national primary. But, why walk
away from power.

Back to the original analogy: Its like us and the DLC are wrestling for the steering wheel of the chase car.
Its my party as much as it is theirs. I think we should fight for it.

arendt

[LWolf]

51. The time for compromise is long past.

I believe this is a transitional period for the Democratic Party. The party either confronts and eradicates the corruption of party values introduced by the DLC, or the party becomes the DLC and thus irrelevant. At that point, any progressives, liberals, and independent thinkers left will abandon the wrecked party for better shores.

[arendt]

53. So who is doing the confronting (of the DLC, not Bush)

DLC apparatchiks, like that loudmouth slimeball James Carville, have been
trashing progressive Dems for years.

Where is the OPEN, no apologies necessary, attack on the DLC from NAME Democratic
officeholders or pundits?

I am all for good guys like Feingold and Kucinich who confront Bush and use positive
language to rally Democrats.

But we need good guys of the Eliot Ness variety ("they put one of our guys in the hospital,
we put two of their guys in the morgue") to tell the truth about the DLC and their
corporate financiers. If Pelosi is a progressive, she needs to say "I was rolled by Steny
Hoyer and Rahm Emmanuel" on the trade bill, on the Iraq War vote. If the VICTIM won't
confront the criminal, how are we ever going to prosecute the criminal?

Can you give me a list of well-known Dems who confront the DLC? You can start with Ned
Lamont - and then you can look at how well he was supported.

arendt

[LWolf]

70. That's the core of the problem.

A majority of voters are not supporting the people who actually WILL, and DO, stand for issues and confront opposition.

Instead, they are supporting and electing apologists who WON'T confront the DLC, let alone the Republicans.

We'll get some talk criticizing the other side of the aisle, but few real challenges. We get no confrontation with the DLC, because they won't confront someone who wears the label of "Democrat," no matter how false that label is.

I believe I've heard Kucinich direct some criticism toward colleagues recently. I was positively surprised. It's not scathing, but it seemed pretty strong from someone who has been such a staunch Democrat:

http://kucinich.us/node/4327
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17769.htm

[leftchick]

52. Know Your DLC Dems! List Here....

Including Bill and Hil.....


http://www.nndb.com/group/269/000093987/

New Democrat Movement


The right wing current of the Democratic party, characterized by its neoliberal economic policies, support of Israel, desire to increase defense spending, and links to heavy donors and fundraisers.

Believes that "left-wing" positions are not politically viable. Describes itself as "moderate and pro-growth". Probably responsible for erosion of the Democratic Party's historical labor and minority base due to support of treaties like NAFTA, lack of support for affirmative action and poverty programs, and their siphoning away of campaign funds from minority groups.

At the national level, the movement was founded by the Democratic Leadership Council (501c4 educational non-profit, founded 1984) and includes the House New Democrat Coalition (founded 1997), the Senate New Democrat Coalition (founded 2000), the New Democrat Network PAC (founded 1996), the misnamed Progressive Policy Institute (501c4 think tank, "Bill Clinton's idea mill", founded 1989), and the umbrella funding group The Third Way Foundation (501c3 non-profit, founded 1996).

Since coming to power within the Democratic Party with Bill Clinton's presidency, the New Democrats/DLC have worked towards "essentially the same purpose as the Christian Coalition... to pull a broad political party dramatically to the right" according to John Nichols of The Progressive.

DLC operatives actively worked to sabotage Howard Dean's candidacy for the US Presidency in 2004, claiming that the "far-left" Democrat was wrong to attack George W. Bush's tax cuts and national security policies.

[arendt]

56. Thanks, but I think NNDB is going to eat my life. Very interesting site...

reminds me of a sanitized version of a site that was around in the early days of the net -
had a database of who was connected to whom in the spook world and the ruling class.

Can't remember the name of the site, and I've gone through too many browsers to have
its URL in my address book anymore.

Anyway, thanks for the link.

arendt

[leftchick]

77. you are welcome

Today is actually the first time I had seen it. Very interesting indeed. Thank you for this excellent thread! :)

[Gregorian]

55. Let's make Americans aware. Front page ads.

I recommended this thread because it strikes upon an important issue of party division. But I seriously doubt many Americans are even aware of the DLC.

Let's start bringing it to their attention. Radio. Newspaper. Isn't this the first step in making a change to bring our Democratic party back to it's whole self?

[arendt]

59. First build a sustainable organization, then take out the ads...

one shot ads don't work. Ads that don't offer people a place/group to take action don't go anywhere.

Yes, we need to make Americans aware.

But first we need organizations that exculde the DLC from its membership and funding; organizations
that are up-front about being in the Democratic Party AND of the opinion that the DLC are traitors to
that party.

My opinion is we need to set up an anti-DLC umbrella organization. Roll it out on the net. Set up
local chapters. Just to get people some "target practice", these organizations should start writting
LTTEs against the DLC. I bet that most reactionary local papers will be glad to publish something
that bashes a DINO.

Only after you have this organization in place, the organization to funnel and organize the responders
to the ad, do you place the ad. And you place it more than once.

Just my opinion

arendt

[Gregorian]

71. That's a lot to think about.

Once the DLC exists, it's impossible to eliminate. If the republicans are pumping money into it, then only educating the public of what it has done can be the way of deflating them. But then many people might still be inclined to vote in that direction.

I like to think in simple terms. But people are not simple. This requires strategy that is way over my head. We're trying to wake people up. It's like moving to the left is similar to fighting the force of gravity. The natural tendency is to fall down.

I suppose the first thing I would need to do is educate myself.

Maybe Congress could pass legislation stating that a party could only have one official party committee.

I dislike this kind of game playing. But I dislike republican control even more.

[arendt]

73. Wrong frame. Here's the right one: if the DLC exists, the Democratic Wing can exist too

You are not fighting gravity, you are fighting money and slime.

Ordinary people have an instinctive dislike of money and political whores.
If (big if) you can keep the money and the slime out of your faction, real
people who believe in real democracy will join you.

So, the first thing about this organization is ABSOLUTELY NO BIG MONEY
contributors.

arendt

[loudsue]

67. That is essential. We need to start our own PAC and raise $$ and put out ads.

It's time we blew the whistle on these creeps, and started educating the public on what we're up against.

:kick::kick::kick:

[arendt]

69. Call it "The Democratic Wing", logo is a donkey with wings, like the Tristar Pics logo. n/t

[loudsue]

91. Brilliant!! I'll bet Dr. Dean would appreciate that, too.

He's the one that started using the term "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party". And he's already helped us organize on a grassroots level more than anyone EVER has.

:applause: Good idea!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[arendt]

92. I dragged out Bullfinch's Mythology to check on Pegasus...

interesting stuff.

Mrs. Arendt points out that Freud claimed that Greek mythology had all you needed to
know about psychology embedded in its myths.

Apparently, "Pegasus sprang from the blood of the defeated Gorgon (Medussa)" and
was always associated with good fortune.

Even better, Belopheron, riding on Pegasus, defeated

....THE CHIMERA...with the head of a lion, the body of a goat, and the tail of a snake.

If that doesn't sum up the DLC: out front, all courage; but they really feed on any junk
that makes a meal, and when you really get to know them, they are snakes.

No time to research further, now.

arendt

[bread_and_roses]

58. On target. Another "R" (n/t)

[bbgrunt]

62. like someone else pointed out recently here--it is just a game of

good cop/bad cop and either way you go you get butt f*****ed--in the end.

[arendt]

64. ummm - that 'someone' was me, in "The Party Formerly Known as Democratic" n/t

[bbgrunt]

74. much appreciated turn of phrase--thanks. Sorry for my sloppy memory of names.

[plgoldsmith]

63. So I guess we can now all agree that Howard Dean's 50-state strategy

did NOT return a progressive majority. I wonder how different it would have been if ALL the Dem votes had been counted. How many more progressive voices would there be in Congress right now if Karl Rove didn't have his big fat thumb on the electoral scale? One of the worst features of the DLC grip on congressional leadership is their lack of interest in real electoral reform.

[sampsonblk]

65. On Howard Dean

His 50-state strategy didn't give us a liberal majority, but it sure did help a lot. And its a lot smarter in the long term than the Rahm alternative.

[arendt]

66. Unfortunately, the DNC has no control over the ?DCRC?

Your observation about a lack of progressive majority is true, but don't blame Howard Dean.

Basically, the DLC, in classic authoritarian style, set up (or hijacked, not sure which)
their own candidate selection organization. Rahm Emmanuel controlled this organization, and
made sure that "progressives need not apply".

I haven't had time to figure out what is going on at the DNC, who have been conspicuous
in their silence on the whole Iraq funding debacle.

This whole "fake front organization" thing that is run by all the corporate politicos is really
getting on my nerves. You can't trust the label on anyone or any organization. You always
have to dig to find out where their funding comes from, and who is really in charge.

arendt

[arendt]

76. Its the DCCC (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee)...

and I suspect its a good place to look for DLCers to target.

arendt

[Pierzin]

72. What would the Founders Say??? Where is the Outrage?

Amen to you arendt!!!
Well said post! I agree with Al Gore. We need a citizenry which is well-informed, we need a media which is not beholden to corporate interests, and we need politicians and leaders who will not be beholden to big money.
It sounds naive, yes, but honest government must take the right stands against this hijacking of our republic.
What would the founders say of our republic today? They would scream from the rafters first, I beleive, that Everyone responsible for this lie of a war should be removed from office and imprisoned. That no one(or almost no one) in the DLC is stepping up for this assault on our armed forces, is just beyond beleif. Kudos to John Murtha and Kucinich, and the handful of others who are speaking out.
Don't even get started on the assult against our economy, and our budget.
Remember in 92, the budget deficit was all over the news. Now since the media is focused on teh war and hype about national security, that has been swept under the rug. We need to focus on the USA, and get out of Iraq.
Bushs strategy of going to war in Iraq "over there so we dont have to fight them over here", well how will he explain the recent foiled plot to blow up JFK Airport then? If the USA did not act as an Imperial Power do you think maybe there would be less hostitily against the US?
What is it going to take to get Americans out in the streets en mass, as they have in other countries we have seen in recent years. This war is going on and on and on with no end in sight, and the DLC has just endorsed the bloodletting for more.
It is wrong!!! It was based on a lie!!! Bush and Cheney and the whole cabal are war mongering ghouls and lying money grubbing bastards who will stop at nothing nto seize the most power and rob the treasury for their friends. They did it from the beginning of this junta taking power.
We need to get off our duffs and do everything we can to urge Impeachment and imprisonment of all of these criminals. And further we need to work to get the warmongering leaders in congress out of office.

[arendt]

75. I agree with all you said, but getting their claws out isn't simple...

the DLC is just another corporate assault on democracy. The corporations have freed
themselves from taxation, so they have unprecedented amounts of money to buy
a piece of, or all of, any organization that gets in their way. They bought the press,
they are the military industrial complex, and they own one and a half of the two major
political parties. They invented their own religion - whackjob Dominionist fundamentalism -
and cynically use it to deflect all attacks on their position.

We, the citizens, keep getting off our duffs, and the media and the DLC and the fundamentalist
death-wish crazies keep knocking us back down.

I think we should follow the classic imperialist model, attack your weakest enemy first.
It is clear that the DLC is an enemy of citizen-based (as opposed to corporate-based)
government. Now Bush is an even bigger enemy, as are the organized fundies. But, Bush
and the fundies are insane. You have to crush them to make them stop.

But, the DLC are just a cynical bunch of corporate whores. They even pretend to be reasonable.
I submit that the DLC are our weakest opponent. We should go after them right now. We
should crucify them for pandering to Bush and adopting his secrecy over the trade bill.
We should put them on record as opposing any change in the status quo in Iraq. We
should make them admit that Iraq Government Benchmark #1 is to write a law that lets
our OIL companies rip off their profits.

And, even if we get rid of the DLC, we then have to win an election during which the whole
"You lost Iraq" meme will be played at full volume. It will take real guts for a nominnee to
stand up to the lies the media and sell-outs like Liebereman will throw at them.

So, yes, I'm outraged. And, I am not at all certain that we can pull this one out. If Hillary
gets in, we will have something like 36 years of the country being run by two families
whose "pater familiases" are joined at the hip. That's not a democracy in my book.

arendt

[cascadiance]

89. You are SO right! That's why in 2008, the Democratic Primary IS the election!

We absolutely NEED a non-DLC set of candidates nominated!

GORE/FEINGOLD!!!

[OHdem10]

80. Amen !! Amen!!Amen""

You have it correct and more.

[leftofthedial]

78. each of the two previous repuke "administrations"

has gotten away with progressively more egregious crimes, the theft of more and more money from the public treasury and more and more blatant treason. This generation of the repuke gang, emboldened by those utter failures of justice and the rule of law, is far, far worse than any previous. I can't even imagine how awful the next wave of repuke criminals will be.

The DLC ARE repukes. Fifth-column traitors and criminals.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

85. yes you begin to wonder if they are really Republicans in disguise

[loudsue]

101. Nothing to wonder about. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck,

It IS a duck. The DLCers ARE republicans. And, like Joe LIEberman, not all of them are the old-time republican kind, but neocons instead.

:kick::kick::kick:

[truth2power]

83. Recommended. Just to let you know, Arendt..

I think this is an outstanding post! DLC driving Bush's getaway car, indeed!!! :applause:

[arendt]

84. Thanks. However, I can never predict which metaphor will resonate. Lots of my posts...

go nowhere. I know I can be pretty pedantic.

I hope to hear this one bounce around the net.

arendt

[bonito]

90. Bookmarking for knowledge base awesome post!

:thumbsup:

[flyarm]

93. DLC=Democrats Love Corporations ..is what i call them!! eom

[Tellurian]

94. So, are you DNC or Third Party?

heaven knows?

[arendt]

95. See Post #50

I will work inside the party as long as I can stomach it. If the DLC has a right to
fight for their opinion, I have a right to fight for mine. But I will not give one dime
to those traitors or any of their hand-picked apparatchiks.

arendt

[Tellurian]

98. In reality you are giving your political capital to the RWingers lurking on this board..correct?

If you deem it appropriate to bash the strongest Dems no matter their affiliation, you are dividing the party and advertising their division leaving them vulnerable to Republican talking points..

You do realize once the Dem nominee has been chosen, you won't be allowed that pleasure, correct?

How is this a good thing?

[arendt]

99. You assume that the strongest candidates are true Dems, not DINOs.

You do understand that until the dem nominee has been chosen, I have a right to an opinion, don't you.

I am so sick of being told to "fall into line" by the DLC and their catspaws.

I love the logic here. I am dividing the party, but the sellouts who cut a SECRET deal with Bush are not
dividing the party.

You have got to be kidding.

arendt

[cui bono]

96. And they're using RW talking points to defend their votes

which is criticizing any Dems who "voted against the troops". Those bastards.

[tavalon]

102. I totally agree

[AbsolutNickUSN]

106. Wait just a sec

#1 Al Qaida started the gunfight. It should be the priority of every Democrat, every American to end it and their reign of terror. They're a brutal cruel enemy that must be dealt with. Granted how they've been dealt with by the party that was in power from the beginning of this conflict has had far too many lack luster moments and far too unnecessary side tracks but none the less "victory/peace" should be our focus.


#2 Shall we be Dividers not Uniters? The American people seem to prefer greater cooperation to the hard line of partisan politics. To get anything done and in line with the preference of what I would say constitutes the vast majority of the American populace, compromise and cooperation are the only realistic means to prevent a 2 year stalemate of wills that in the end will hardly benefit anyone.

[arendt]

107. Its not about Al Qaida. And don't hand me Bush's BS about "being a uniter"

Its about the fact that the DLC has consistently sided against the middle class,
against the sensible options for fighting Islamic militants (the phrasse War on
terrorism is meaningless fear mongering - not that there are no Islamic militants,
just that "you can't declare war on a tactic").

Have you not been reading the papers? Every day some new general, active duty
or retired, says we will NOT have a military victory. Peace? Iraq will smolder for
another ten years, even if the U.S. left today. We have totally destroyed their
society. The infrastructure was blown up in 1990 and again in 2003. Over the
last four years, anyone in Iraq with a higher education has either been murdered,
intimidated, or fled the country.

The goal of Bush is to start a war with Iran and "lock the next president into 'our
destiny'". Our goal should be victory/peace - what are you smoking?

You must be new here, because these points are incredibly naive as to what
has been going on in America for the last twenty years. Any regular long-timer
at DU has no respect for an "Al Qaida is the boogeyman" argument. And you
will not get much of an audience for cooperation at this point. We have been
lied to and screwed over by Bush and by our own party. There isn't much trust
left.

The DLC are just the next version of the "take no prisoners" GOP. They weasel their
way into power with immense piles of corporate dollars and plenty of friendly media.
Then they screw over the prinicples of the party they have hijacked.

The fundies did that to the GOP , and the DLC did it to the Democrats.

Now its time to take control of our party back.

arendt

[AbsolutNickUSN]

110. Who's party?

I didn't imply Bush was a Uniter. I reaffirmed my preference for Unity over division. You talk about taking the party back? What's left after you take it back? Taking out the DLC does the Democratic party have any kind of majority in Congress? Nope.


Sorry from throwin in the whole cliché "Al Qaida is the boogey man I have a hard time forgetting 9/11, Nick Berg, Daniel Pearl, the recent murder of Pfc. Anzack and their countless other victims. And there are plenty other Democrats true blue Democrats the feel the same.

[arendt]

112. The working man's Democratic Party, you know, with unions and stuff

What's left after we get rid of the DLC is the only party in the U.S. that wants to fight
for the ordinary middle class guy, instead of the corporations. We get a party that will
oppose off-shoring and union busting and bans on government negotiating drug prices.
If there really were such a party, it might attract Republicans who vote for Bloomberg and
Schwarzenegger. It might attract country club Republicans who are sick of the fundamentalist
lunatics running their party.

You see only loss in telling the truth. I see possibility.

And Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl? Oh, please!

These guys are "spooked up"(intelligence connection). Pearl was doing some work for the CIA
and Nick Berg was another guy whose story is just too suspicious to believe (he came to set up
a phone network just when there was this land rush to cash in on the U.S. monopoly on contracts.
And phone networks are a strategic communications technology that the spooks monitor all the time.
But, no, he's just an honest businessman who believes in Democracy.) Give me a break.

And these two questionable characters from four years ago stick in your mind, while the
hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis don't? Do you understand that this is exactly the
caricature that the rest of the world has about Americans? They would say "When did you
decide that one American life is worth more than one hundred thousand Arab lives?"

Your rhetoric is hermetically sealed. This is becoming tedious.

arendt

[AbsolutNickUSN]

114. Lets go for full blown tedious

I fail to see how these fascinating conspiracy theories regarding Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl justified their murders or make said murders the SLIGHTEST bit less outrageous. Is it Un Democratic to be outraged by the murders of 2 ordinary middle class guys?

I don't see how


I would hope the party be for the ordinary middle class guy as greats like Franklin Delano Roosevelt envisioned and I fail to see how the DLC has betrayed them.


I would also like to add the the great Roosevelt had the audacity to scare America with "Nazi" and Japanese" bogeymen. If anyone is to postulate the notion that strong opposition to hostile entities to US security is un Democratic I beg to differ..........

Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton

My Senator the magnificent Barb Mikulski (who has the world's greatest crab cake recipe) had the audacity to suggest a hard line against the Al Qaida bogeyman. (Not DLC btw)

[arendt]

115. It is highly debatable that they were "ordinary middle class guys".

All of your arguments are based on premises that come straight from GOP/DLC
talking points. That is why this whole discussion is tedious. We had this discusssion
four years ago at DU. You are late to the party.

----

Let's leave aside the whole spook argument, even though there is a lot of evidence
for it. Nick Berg is no hero.

He was a pushy American businessman in the middle of an occupied country in the
middle of a war. He did business with some shady characters, and he wound up
dead. This requires outrage on my part exactly why?

Nick Berg publicly styled himself to be a risk-taking entreprenuer. He thought this distinctly
Anglo-Saxon conceit was some kind of invincible armor. Maybe you ought to blame all the
BS that Bush spouted about bringing democracy (read robber baron capitalism) to the Middle
East. But, no, like everything about this war, the people who have been right from day one
are always excluded from having any credibility. I am supposed to feel sorry for a deluded,
pushy guy trying to make a fast buck in a dangerous place? Not a chance.

----

You fail to see how the DLC betrayed FDRs support of the working class by their SECRET
trade deal with Bush? You are unbelivable. The DLC sold out workers rights and the environment
in this deal which no one knows any details about yet. The secrecy alone is contrary to
any domestic initiative FDR undertook.

What more does it take to betray FDR?

----

Al Qaida is no more than 5,000 people. They are not advanced industrial civilizations with
state of the art armies bigger than those of the democracies. Al Qaida should have been a
law enforcement problem. Bush has turned them into something bigger. But they are still
not the equivalent threat to the Axis. You have been listening to too much propaganda and
looking at too few factual studies.

----

As far as I'm concerned this discussion is over. You haven't made a single point that moves
me from my stance that the DLC are the GOP in disguise. You haven't convinced me that
Iraq is anything but a horrible mistake with no upside that we should get our troops out of
ASAP. And, you have not told me exactly where you were in Iraq.

You shift from topic to topic, only referring to the previous topic as a hook to introduce new
red herrings. I have seen this behavior before. I have responded to you three times. This
is going nowhere. Goodbye.

arendt

[KoKo]

109. You meant "Getaway Black SUV" because that's what THEY DRIVE these days....

but..yeah...what you say. I'm hoping for another SEX SCANDAL or SPILL THE BEANS...but American Public during the Bush REGIMES (notice I say "plural") are getting kind of immune to "shock and awe."

We Americans now expect the WORSE in CRIME AND CORRUPTION from our Government and that's the MOST DANGEROUS THING ..I've seen in America in my long years as a voter. :-(

[Pastiche423]

118. What a treat it was to see your name as the OP

after I read the title!

What still amazes me, is that so many people are totally ignorant (willfully ignorant?) to the agenda of the DLC. Hell, many people I speak w/in rl don't even know about the DLC at all.

In the 2004 primaries, I was so disgusted that, once again, the DLC had appointed our nom, that after thirty two years of being a registered Dem, I re-registered as an Independent.

In the general, I was so sickened by the choice, that it took me two weeks to fill out the presidential vote on my Paper ballot. Sadly and out of fear, I voted for the DLCers.

That will not happen again.

P.S. I still have your "Its the War, Stupid!" essay from 2003 on my HD!

[arendt]

119. You are most gracious. Thanks.

Not only are many willfully ignorant, the ones who know about them are usually for them.
Witness my debate with AbsolutNickUSN in this very thread.

He seems to believe that the Democratic Party is "the DLC way or the highway".

Thanks for the praise.

Cpuld you send the essay? I can't find it myself.

Thanks,

arendt

[Pastiche423]

120. You are most welcome

Please check your PMs. I couldn't figure out how to send a text file, so I cut and pasted your essay into the PM.