Carville is still attacking Howard Dean to college audiences.

[madfloridian]

He makes me sick. The bloggers have debunked all his stuff. Over and over. He keeps repeating it. Dean's job is to build the party structure and to get ready for the election in 08. That is the bottom line.

I see no good end to this. I hear Schumer had a tantrum at the senate retreat which of course is private because we peons don't get to know what they are planning. Some person from the DNC was explaining their efforts in the midwest and apparently did not give Schumer enough credit though it appeared to be an oversight and not deliberate. Schumer supposedly yelled at him.

I do not have a good feeling about all this. They have the media to spout what they want. It makes me sick and it makes me angry.

Here is Carville spouting off to college kids, and of course Howard Dean was not there to defend himself. He has often done this.

http://maroon.uchicago.edu/online_edition/news/2007/06/01/ragin%E2%80%99-cajun-entertains-challenges-at-progressive-gala/

Carville also criticized Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean, saying that Dean did not help Democratic candidates enough during the 2006 congressional races. According to Carville, on election day, the DNC had $6 million left in unused credit and $4 million left in the bank. He said all of that money should have been spent on campaigns

That is not fair at all. Rahm spent 3 million on Duckworth's campaign and wanted Dean to give more. He didn't. There are several others I have posted about, too damn tired to find it now...but Hotline, Kos, and other blogs proved that only 4 races could have benefitted from more TV ads which is what he wanted the money for.

I am angry. They do this over and over. Then they vote to give Bush a blank check, and they do a sneaky trade deal in secret.

I don't like this at all. It does not bode well for the direction of our party if they keep up these sneak attacks. Saying this to college students, which Carville has done before is really out of line.

[illinoisprogressive]

1. Carvelle admitted he was put up to try to stage a coup on Dean

carvelle did say he was doing it for the Clintons. They wanted Dean out before hillary started her run. the dnc is the party structure and she wanted a DLC stooge to run the DNC to help in her run and establish the inevitable thing.
When the bloggers bit back and fought against them and for Dean, they backed away.
I suppose they never put it aside and are now trying to first turn the people against Dean.
What they don't realize is that we know Dean is the hero of our party and saved it from sure death.
Some of my dislike of hillary is traced to this stunt as i have very high regard for Dean.

[madfloridian]

2. He implicated both Rahm and the Clintons in the attacks....

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/838

"Flush with victory after the election, Rahm’s allies, led by Carville, try to mount a coup at the DNC by publicly attacking Dean and suggesting he be replaced by Harold Ford, a Tennessee moderate who just lost a Senate race. “You can’t go into 2008 having a party chairman that is completely disconnected from the congressional leadership and the campaign committees,” Carville tells me, further pounding the wedge that divides the Deaniacs and the Clintonites. When I ask if Rahm agrees, Carville says, “It’s not any secret that Rahm has expressed disdain for Dean and not very secret that Rahm and I are close. It doesn’t take a lot of dot-connecting here.”

What about the Clintons, who, given Hillary’s presidential ambitions, have more cause for concern about who runs the DNC in 2008? “Let’s just say nobody has called me telling me this is a bad idea. Sometimes silence is eloquence.” Not only did Carville’s coup fail but it arguably strengthened Dean, who, speaking before his state-party allies, mocked the attempt as a desperate attack from the “old Democratic Party.” Cutting his losses, Rahm quickly leaked word to the press that he and Dean had negotiated a truce."

[Totally Committed]

15. This entire Clintons/Rham/Carville cadre attacking Dean this way

is an indication that Dean represents, to them, the biggest step away from the old politics of the past. To say the least, these attacks don't sit well with me, because I believe that Dean's 50-state strategy WAS a step away from the old politics of the past that proved successful.

For that whole crowd, it put a bullseye on Dean's back. They want to do things the way they aways have: Secret deals and unholy alliances made in smoke-filled rooms with all kinds of cash exchanging hands, and who cares who's sold out... as long as they are taken care of.

I dislike them all intensely. They, and their way of doing things have to go.

TC

[ellisonz]

49. Excellent Post!

:applause: :applause:

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. Silence is eloquence?

No it isn't. Remember the Silent Majority? What a spin that was. Silence is not equivalent to acquiescence. It may be a sign of fear, a sign of uncertainty, a sign of despair, a sign of defeat.

Silence can mean just about anything.

[bettyellen]

19. so Hillary is afraid of Carville? depressed or confused about strategy? or my fave, defeated?

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. I'm just tired of people using "silence" as a sign that what they're doing is okay.

I see it all the time and I'm responding to that comment in general, than specifically.

No wonder our country is so confrontational. Everybody expects you to beat them over the head if you disagree with them. Our property laws are written a lot like that.

[bettyellen]

23. isn't hillary the most powewerful pol carville is aligned with? you think he would displease her

and taint her rep and she wouldn't distance herself from this? pols do more behind the scenes than normal human beings. real estate aside, i'm afraid this is the case here. the other options of hil being frightened or lacking strategy make no sense whatsoever and also make her look bad.
she is the DLCs chosen one and along with the great benefits, she's going to have to live with the stench of that, the dean coup plot included.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Oh, I'm certain that Hillary gave Carville the green light.

And I'm also certain that Carville's comment of "silence" being equivalent to acquiescence is also correct IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. I just wanted to challenge it as a blanket excuse for everyting.

[Cleita]

4. I'm not for the Clintons for the very reason you state.

Bill did some to reverse the damage of the Reagan/Bush years, but he backed off because he was being attacked by the right. Now it seems that Hillary is sitting in the lap of the right. I wonder if all the buddy, buddy thing between Bill and Herbert Walker Bush doesn't have a lot to do with this politcally.

[tblue37]

17. That's how I feel, too.

If Hillary is nominated, I will of course vote against whoever the Republican candidate is, but that is the only way she will get my vote. All she cares about is her own power and being the first woman president.

I would love to see Gore/Clark, Clark/Obama, or Clark/Edwards as our ticket.

[Lone_Wolf]

25. The DLC is the antithesis to a party based on democratic principles. ..

I just don't see how an Elitist organization like the DLC, that believes in top-down decision making, fits any of the definitions of democracy:

1. the political orientation of those who favor government by the people or by their elected representatives
2. a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them
3. majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group

[bobthedrummer]

59. No DLC for me.

:thumbsdown:

[madfloridian]

3. Hey, James, get an egg.

and smash it on your face on MTP tomorrow just like you did several years ago on that show. That was so damn cute and cuddly. Golly gee.

[illinoisprogressive]

5. i was stunned when he first did his attack on Dean and now i'm just furious over it.

[madfloridian]

7. They don't want the power base shifted out of DC.

They don't want change. Dean represents change, and they want to do things in the "smoke-filled" rooms mode.

Moving the Piggybank..a DNC power shift outside DC

I am very angry. I don't think this is good.

[tsuki]

11. I call it Deliverance on the Beltway. No outsiders allowed. nt

[janx]

16. The Denver Post article is a good one.

Thanks for posting this, MF. :hi:

[madfloridian]

29. Yes, it was a good article.

:hi:

[polichick]

31. imo this is the most interesting thing about the Dems now

The battle for the soul of the party!

[ellisonz]

6. He's a vampire.

:mad:

[madfloridian]

8. Rahm should have taken the quarter million he used to get Cegelis out of the race...

and applied it to the Duckworth race near the end. He made poor judgement in several races and wants to blame Dean for it.

Cegelis had a base on the ground, with more money coming. He dried it up by getting Duckworth in. Be a man, Rahm, don't send Carville to do your dirty work.

[eridani]

10. If Rahm hadn't utterly wasted near a million trying to get Cegelis out of the race--

--Duckworth could have run in one of the neighboring districts and we might actually have gotten one or both of them in.

[Justitia]

9. All that crap he's spewing has been thoroughly debunked. He's insanely jealous of Dean.

He cannot stand that he is not in the national Dem spotlight anymore, and that someone is more popular w/the rank & file than him.
Carville is a washed up, throwback LOSER.

At least that ass Rahm had some sense to put the word out that he & Dean had reached a truce.
He must have felt some heat after his last petty sniping at Dean, I think he got a little blowback from that (Schumer too, but apparently he's still yapping about "credit").

The only consolation is that this particular audience (college students) is pretty internet savvy and most likely have already ferreted out the truth themselves. They also probably remember Gov Dean from '04 and can make their own judgments over the rantings of Lizard Head.

Hell, college students probably have only a dim idea of who Lizard Head is anyway, and that's because he's sleeping with the enemy, Cruella DeVille.
Carville hasn't been relevant for over a decade.

STFU you pathetic loser, Carville.

[JNelson6563]

12. Assholes

So damn insulated in their bubble they don't have a clue about all the progress the party has made thanks to Dean. Progress in spite of their efforts to stop it.

Of course this gang will happily exploit all that progress if their chosen one gets the nom. and will probably be shocked when they are enthusiastically embraced.

Julie

[Clark2008]

14. It's not the sort of "progress" they want.

They want progress of corporate Dems and not progressive Dems.

I really don't know what they're complaining about though - half of the people running for president, HRC, Edwards, Biden and Richardson, are or were DLC (read: corporate Dems) so they still have a 50/50 shot.

I think they're afraid the progressive wing may influence votes against these people.

[corkhead]

13. Carville is to Dems what Dennis Miller is to comedy

has beens

[doggyboy]

21. I just don't get it

If the DLC is as powerful as some here think it is, and the DLC opposes Dean, then why is Dean still heading the DNC?

It seems the DLC isn't all that powerful

[ellisonz]

51. Oooohh...a logical fallacy i.e. the DLC has only lost power because of Bush and then Dean.

Impressive. :sarcasm:

[doggyboy]

80. So now the DLC has lost power?

.

[blm]

22. I don't trust that entire wing of the party - they certainly make no bones about gunning for

our side of the party, but, apparently, they hold sway. Easier to do when you run with the corporatist media crowd.

It's not EASY supporting the anti-corruption, open government wing of the Democratic Party when most of the powerstructure is set up AGAINST us and our leaders.

[jcrew2001]

26. What does Carville mean by "Go Ugly Early" in the bar scene

as quoted in Schrum's new book about how to meet women in bars. I don't get it, hahaha.

Does it mean don't wait until last call, and don't go for the hottest girl because you'll get turned down.

[madfloridian]

27. I missed that quote, fortunately. Yuck

He just stays ugly sort of .....ok, that was not nice. :evilgrin:



Carville smashes egg on face.

[jcrew2001]

28. Russert quoted it on MTP today with Carville, Shrum and Matlan

Its funny watching Matlan's face every time Carville speaks.

But, she's not that ugly.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

30. Carville and his Right-Wing "New Democrats" should get lost

Let Dean take over and purge us of Carville, Rahm Emanuel, Harold Ford, and their ilk.

[StudentProgressive]

36. Here Here

the local young democrats here is full of new democrats apologists.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

38. Where is that?

And more importantly, why is that?

[ellisonz]

53. Welcome to DU!

Lotta Hillary style Dem's? Not Right Wing Christian but still firm in their lust for money?

:toast:

[ellisonz]

54. Welcome to DU!

We are the future.

:toast:

[wyldwolf]

111. I think the far-left "Johnny Come Lately" dems should get lost...

...they who have never won shit.

[madfloridian]

32. Carville said Gore and Dean were too right about the war, and it hurt them

Yes, he did say that in an interview with Rollng Stone which I wrote about here.

Carville says Gore and Dean were right too often...especially about the war.

"Even Gore's prescience on the war may not be the towering advantage that many are predicting. "One is always penalized for being right about too many things," Carville says. "Prophets are shot in this town."

....""Using Al Gore as an example, Carville said being a smart candidate is not enough.

“It’s actually possible to be wise, right and strong,” he said.

"But Carville added that no one in Washington likes anyone who is right too often. Howard Dean’s accurate assessment about the failure of the war in Iraq helped kick him out of the running for president despite his passion, Carville said."

This is the guy who gets big bucks as a consultant. :think:

Putting a trash can on his head on CNN


Cracking an egg on his head on MTP

[Vincardog]

33. I thought it was the Corporate Controlled Media that helped kick him out of the running for presiden...

[Donna Zen]

34. Translating Carville

Why being right about the war was bad? Because the DLC voted for the damn thing....especially Sen. Clinton. That's a "no no."

As for the rest of the trash. Well, the DLC Dems. aren't necessarily concerned with strengthening the national party. Why should they be when 1) we start demanding programs that benefit us 3) we want to elect representatives that might refuse to join their club, and 2) they can count on our votes---DNC votes---no matter what they do.

Our electoral college is set up to favor a two party system, but it is my belief that we now have a three party system. One of those three parties has attached itself to the Democrats. The DLC is an exclusive club and we are their voting base and peon worker bees. I'm not being radical about this...listen to Gore. The system is broken.

I just peeked into a thread trashing someone who admitted to being a Green. Good grief. The Greens fit under the Big Tent much more easily than the DLC. Hell, the DLC doesn't want to be under the tent with the rabble. They just wait until an election rolls around, and although they've sold out your jobs, screwed health care reform, and sided with the credit card companies, they just tell you that if you don't vote for them, the republicans will git ya.

Well, I doubt that they will permit another Dr. Dean to rise to a seat of power. Enjoy the next two years cause that will be all she wrote.

At the top, not at the city council level, politics is a billion dollar business. Just like the board rooms at Walmart, they don't want you coming in.

[madfloridian]

35. I believe the DLC is already a 3rd party unto itself....as for us...

they are pretty sure we have nowhere else to go. I think Carville sent the message when he said Harold Ford should replace Dean....and then as if by magic, Ford became chair of the DLC.

They have their own convention each year called the National Conversation...in Nashville this year in July. They present the issues, the party follows them.

They are already the third party, and the rest of us can go along or not.

Dean had dreams of low donor funding at the DNC of 1 million giving 20 dollars monthly. That is a lot of monthly money, and it could change a party.

Instead most have given only to 08 candidates, who as Ford says will use the DLC as the policy shop.

I feel very discouraged this week.

[polichick]

37. I think DLC folks view themselves as the true Dems...

And grassroots members on the left as renegades to be placated for their votes, much as the religious right has been placated by Reps.

Sometimes I think Dean was given his job to distract him from the real revolution he had begun.

[Donna Zen]

39. The Democratic Party is old

The DLC is a response to the corporate need to insure that there will always be a Plan A and a Plan B. I'm not even radical about this, I just believe in balance. How can the middle class be represented in Washington under this scheme? And "yes," I really do believe that the DLC is that bad.

How can we ever fix health care when the people we send to Washington end up taking gobs of money from them? How can we fix anything with no voice? That is why I think we need a party....I want mine back.

[Morgana LaFey]

40. How does someone do that -- criticize Howard Dean or any other

major Dem IN PUBLIC (and withouot warrant) -- without feeling so much guilt that you can't stand yourself? How can you do something like that and not feel like a whiney-ass slob? I don't get it.

But then I'm not Carville. OR Matalin.

[madfloridian]

41. And in front of a college audience, and that person not there to defend himself.

It is tasteless and it is not classy. But then no one ever said Carville had class.

[doggyboy]

42. DUers do it all the time

Suddenly criticism is a bad thing

[madfloridian]

43. I am sorry but that is in no way the same thing.

Carville is standing in front of a group of college kids, getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, openly supporting Hillary. There is just so much wrong with that.

Unfortunately all Democrats have been taught that he is funny and cute, and won an election in the early 90s.

They take what he says very seriously, sadly.

As I said, it does not bode well for our party.

People adore him, love his bald head. Words he says stick, even if they are not true and have been proven so.

DUers are posting on a blog anonymously.

[doggyboy]

44. What is wrong with standing in front of college kids

and openly supporting Clinton? You complain about people knocking dems in public, but you have no problem knocking Clinton in a public forum read by thousands.

[madfloridian]

45. Supporting is one thing. Attacking the chairman of the party is another.

Please find one post where I attacked Clinton?

I post things that Bill Clinton said about supporting the Iraq war, and he did, you know.

I don't attack him. I post things he said during the last campaign.

You know what? Why am I arguing with someone who thinks what Carville did is just fine?

Good question, madfloridian. Why bother.

[doggyboy]

46. You think it's wrong to criticize the chairman of the party?

That surprises me. I've seen you criticize McAuliffe on many occasions

And I was speaking of both Clintons, who you have critized in this thread.

Why am I arguing with someone who thinks what Carville did is just fine?

I never said it was fine. I merely pointed out your hypocrisy by asking what you thought was wrong with his criticism. You attack the party leader, and criticize others for attacking the party leader, while denying that you've attacked the party leader and making up stuff about what I think is fine.

I don't like it when dems attack each other, but I'm not selective about it the way you are

[madfloridian]

47. I am not speaking to a group of college students.

"I attack the party's leader"....(who is that)

I think and have said that if the Clintons are in on this with Carville....they should stop it.

I have often said and meant it that Bill Clinton could have stopped this war in a second. All those lives would have been spared. But he supported it.

I don't attack, I state facts.

Carville is misleading a group of college kids because he is not telling the truth. It was debunked by many bloggers and Hotline as well.

I am very amazed you can not seem to see the difference in DU and standing at a podium at a university.

In case you are wondering, I do not consider the Clintons to still be the leaders of the party. You made an assumption.

[doggyboy]

48. You attacked McAuliffe

I have often said and meant it that Bill Clinton could have stopped this war in a second. All those lives would have been spared. But he supported it.

I don't attack, I state facts.

Yeah, right. Clinton could have stopped this war. That's an opinion, not a fact.

You are ridiculous. You say one thing and do another and claim your opinions are facts. No wonder you have no credibility here. You start thread after thread that either attacks a democrat or whines about how a democrat is attacking another democrat

[madfloridian]

50. When and where did I attack McAuliffe?

Please post it.

Bill Clinton said he often:

""I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

I have a lot of other stuff but it's late.

Yes, I firmly believe that Bill Clinton and Hillary had vast influence and could have spoken out that it was not a necessary war. That we did not have to invade at all.

But he did not. She voted for it, and the rest is history.

I have not been called ridiculous before, but I hold the record for other names. I don't mind it at all.

Many of our Democrats voted for the war while we still had the congress. Why? Because they got the advice from Clinton advisors and Bill approved the invasion.

[doggyboy]

52. In the archives

Your distaste for all things DLC is well known. Pretend it's not.

Yes, I firmly believe that Bill Clinton and Hillary had vast influence and could have spoken out that it was not a necessary war. That we did not have to invade at all.

But he did not. She voted for it, and the rest is history.

Now tell me again how you don't attack dems? I guess they have "vast influence" but are not party leaders. Other democrats listen to them because they're nobodies.

Many of our Democrats voted for the war while we still had the congress. Why? Because they got the advice from Clinton advisors and Bill approved the invasion.

Yes, Bill has all that influence but is not a party leader so you can attack him.

[madfloridian]

57. Correct. I do not care for what the DLC has done to our party.

It was the Iraq War that woke a lot of us up.

Are you aware that when the election was over Carville went on CNN and said Dean should be replaced? Then he did it again. And he did it again off TV. Then he said Rahm and the Clintons agreed.

You are right, but in every post I have written about the DLC I use their own words.

Bill Clinton owed it to the anti war people NOT to defend Bush against us. I think he knew better, thus there is more blood on his hands than on some who voted for it because he approved. He was the president after all.

Sorry you disapprove of me, but it just does not touch me anymore. I learned you can't make a difference if you are afraid someone will call you names.

Please find where I attacked McAuliffe. I don't remember having much of an opinion on him.

[doggyboy]

60. RIght

so now tell me again about how you don't attack party leaders.

[madfloridian]

63. I don't.

I simply use their own words that I feel are wrong.

It's amazing how many can not tell the difference between attacks and critique.

SO...tell me. how do you feel about Bill Clinton's support for the war?

[doggyboy]

65. So they're wrong, but that's not an criticism. Uh-huh

and you don't attack party leaders, but you do attack Schumer in your OP

[madfloridian]

68. Attack? No, that is not true at all. I told of an incident.

It was an incident which shows that the party congressional leaders look down on Dean and the DNC as incapable. In turn that means they think we are not capable either....the grassroots.

Schumer was very angry, and I hear unfairly so to a DNC staffer.

Do you think everything is criticism? I don't.

I think a paid consultant who is supporting the Clintons should not stand in a college class and attack Dean for what he knows has been debunked.

Good night, talk to yourself now.

[doggyboy]

72. "I hear Schumer had a tantrum "

No, that's not an attack. It's a fact, right?

Do you think everything is criticism? I don't.

Accusing an adult of having a tantrum was a compliment?

Who do you think you're fooling?

[ellisonz]

76. I'd believe it based on the zeal he has for media exposure.

What a schmuck.

[Zodiak]

99. They apparently cannot tell the difference between a complaint

and a "whine", either. Or "majority" and "fringe", or whatever litle common verbal frames I see that are completely disingenuous and more akin to the words of Newt Gingrich.

Personally, I think that word (whine) should be banned from referring to other DUers, but that would deprive DLC-defending DUers of one of their favorite words to describe progressives.

[ellisonz]

56. Terry McAuliffe is scum.

His lust for money is second only to his hatred of real Democrats.

:evilgrin: :crazy: :eyes:

[doggyboy]

61. You're entitled to that opinion

but it's hypocritical to attack a dem you don't like, and then complain when a dem you do like gets attacked.

[ellisonz]

66. What is this? A pity party?

I'm not complaining and I don't think madfloridian is either. We're just sick and tired of the DLC bullcrap.

[doggyboy]

70. I didn't say that YOU were complaining hypocritically

but you did jump into a discussion of mf's hypocrisy in criticizing dems for criticizing dems. I thought your comment was related to that.

[madfloridian]

73. No, I have no hypocrisy. I am in a forum. Carville was paid big money...

to speak, and he attacked the chairman. I do not believe you can not see the difference. Unless you just don't want to see it.

I am used to this, feel free.

[ellisonz]

74. Madfloridian said *nothing* hypocritcal. This is about facts, not opinion.

The fact is that around here Carville, McAuliffe, Schumer and soon to be Hillary are for all practical purposes "enemies of DU." They represent the worst of the Democratic party, and no I'm not going to do your research for you.

You're damn right I jumped in because you are over the line throwing the charge of hypocrisy around.

[doggyboy]

77. So then you are just as hypocritical as mf

and you're willing to ignore facts.

Hillary is the front runner, and if and when she is nominated, you will be kicked off of DU because the enemies of the democratic nominee are the real enemies of DU.

[ellisonz]

78. LOL.

Hillary is the "front runner" only in the eyes of the MSM (mainstream media.) I used the phrase in quotations for a reason. Keep it up and see how much time you find yourself getting stuck in pointless debates, trust me, we've already had these wars.

:thumbsdown:

[doggyboy]

79. I agree with that

it is pointless

[ellisonz]

81. I'm simply saying that from at least 2003 to c. 2005...

the matter of the DLC was hotly debated...majority opinion here is decisively against the DLC.

Welcome to DU!

:silly:

[doggyboy]

82. Yes, I remember

.

[Zodiak]

105. That's true

when I got into politics and blogging and whatnot in 2001, I had no idea what the DLC was.

Boy have I gotten a lesson!! I have watched for five years while these moles made the party look divided, used the same verbal frames Bush did (giving his disgusting rhetoric the look of bipartisanship), and sabotaged every chance the Democrats had for resisting this unbelievable lurch to right-wing authoritarinism and economic misery this nation has become. I took score, even, because I do not inherently trust the words of people in the internet who have an agenda.

And my conclusions from scoring are that the bloggers who are decidedly anti-DLC are absolutely correct in their assessment that this organization is a lead anchor to the voice of the People in the People's own party. They undermine traditional Democratic vaues and narrow the debate in this country while amplifying the voices of the right and shutting out the contributions of citizens to the political process.

They are more Bush's allies than allies to the traditional Democratic party.

Who joined the gand of 14? Who voted for cloture to get us Justice Alito? Who signed onto the bankruptcy bill? Who signed CAFTA into law? Who voted for the Iraq war? Who referred to Americans against the Iraq war as "fringe"? Who continued to tacitly support Leiberman when Lamont got the nomination? What organization did that turncoat Leiberman come from anyways?

Time and time again, the DLC is involved in every single loss for the average American person and the people of the world that are affected by American policy for the last 5 years. Oh they didn't initiate it...they are too cowardly to be seen as that radical, but they voted for it when it came across their desks or enabled it to get to the desks in the first place when otherwise preventative measures could be taken. Then they point to Bush and say if we don't vote for them, then Bush will stay in power....even though the bastards GAVE him that power in the first place.

On the blogs, their supporters have always counselled trust in our leaders and constant forgiveness. Cautioning us against ideological purism. Denigrating us as naive, but always providing excuses to do nothing and keep things exacty the way they are in the party. Meanwhile, the party gets nothing at all done because of the very people they defend.

Oh, and the DLC loves to raise up a form of Democratic McCarthyism......third parties....or even worse....Ralph Nader!!

It is endless and has been around in far more places than DU. Fortunately, progressives are no longer listening to this group. They seemed so smart and knowledgeable in the early years, but we caught on.

I put them on ignore, now, and will never vote for a DLCer. If given a choice between a run-down Pinto that is likely to kill and a Yugo with a busted transmission that goes nowhere, I prefer to ride a bike.

[The Magistrate]

85. Nonesense, Mr. Ellisonz: They Are Not 'Enemies Of D.U.', For 'Practical' Or Any Other Purposes

They are figures on the political scene some members of this forum do not like, and whom some members of the forum do.

Sen. Schumer is the senior Democratic Senator from New York, and is an effective and popular political figure, who most Democrats appreciate greatly.

Mr. MacAuliffe did not perform to well as a strategist when head of the National Committee, but he was, and remains, an excellent fund-raiser.

Mr. Carville is pretty much in retirement as a political actor, and the degree to which some focus on him still both amazes and amuses me.

[ellisonz]

88. Fair enough.

Sen. Schumer will do anything for an interview.

Mr. MacAulliffe wrote a book entitled "What a Party!: My Life Among Democrats: Presidents, Candidates, Donors, Activists, Alligators and Other Wild Animals," how respectful.

Mr. Carville continually gets exclusive television access, for example see this mornings MTP. Plus, he literally sleeps with the enemy.

I put it in quotations for a reason, to indicate that they are not just reviled by some here but by many. I'm not trying to break any rules but I find the harrying of madfloridian disgusting.

[The Magistrate]

93. You Broke No Rule, Sir

The comment simply seemed worth replying to.

Obviously, any comment that seems to brak rules against personal attacks, etc., should be alerted on. We cannot be everywhere and see everything.

[madfloridian]

97. Magistrate....People take him very seriously.

I am amazed that you think that it is ok for him to have this mission toward the chairman at a time when the rest of us are being urged to stay on board, work with the party...don't give up.

I am amazed that you are amazed that I think Carville is hurting a lot of Democrats by doing this.

Someone above just about accused me of being a troll, and get this...they said it was like the "trolls" that got banned here years ago who posted about the DLC.

So guess I better fall in line.

[doggyboy]

100. Now you are making false claims

I didn't say you were a troll. I said that there were trolls who agreed with your position on the DLC.

[madfloridian]

103. I posted your words, they speak for you.

.

[doggyboy]

106. You are making false claims

You made a false accusation in order to cover up how Dean has done nothing to stop the corporate takeover of our party. Dean is fully supportive of the DLC which is why he doesn't say anything about the DLC. Another loser. Couldn't win the nomination because of his lousy campaign, and he can't change the party from within; Not even as party chairman

[madfloridian]

108. Niever mind, magistrate.

When those posts were deleted, I got the message.

[ellisonz]

69. There's a difference between an internet message board and a public figure.

Carville is still living off of his 1992 reputation and frankly it is pathetic. PATHETIC. You must be a Hillary voter.:evilgrin:

[doggyboy]

86. Yes, it's far more noble to make anonymous attacks on the internet

[provis99]

55. Carville making his opinions known is alright by me, but...

I just disagree with him. In my opinion, the anonymous posters of DU are more right than his overpaid, overcelebrated self. And I don't like the DLC. That is all.

[madfloridian]

58. Well, then if he can, I can. Fair is fair.

He sent a message to the grassroots right after the election.

[doggyboy]

62. A very reasonable position

and also consistent

[madfloridian]

64. Hey, not fair, I am consistent.

I consistently criticize the DLC using their own words.

I do it because I don't want to happen to my party what happened to the GOP. They remained silent and went along to get along.

Their party was hijacked, and they may not get it back.

Ours is in the process, but it is not too late to get it back.

[doggyboy]

67. Yes, you criticize a dem for attacking a dem

while you attack dems.

And now you criticize entire Democratic Party. And Dean goes along with this "hijacking", but we can't criticize Dean

[Name removed]

71. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

75. You don't get it. Dean is trying to hijack it back from them.

So to speak.

:rofl:

Continue this is getting interesting.

[doggyboy]

83. So why is he silent about the hijacking by the DLC?

Silence = consent

Now that Dean is party chairman, he's going along with whatever is being done. I don't hear him complaining

[ellisonz]

90. Incoherent.

[doggyboy]

92. That's why Dean isn't talking about the hijacking?

Dean is incoherent?

I don't think so. Dean can be very eloquent

[ellisonz]

96. Oh god.

"Now that Dean is party chairman, he's going along with whatever is being done. I don't hear him complaining"

Is incoherent and illogical.

[doggyboy]

101. Is Dean scared to talk about the dangers of the DLC?

Why is Dean silent about the grave danger the DLC presents to the Democratic Party?

[madfloridian]

98. I was partly joking.

Don't worry the party is in good hands....for corporations.

Any change is a dream, really, and will take years...and more wars and more free trade without regulation.

But madfloridian writes the words spoken by the DLC and its members, and the words of Bill Clinton supporting this insane war.

Amd you imply I am a troll.

[doggyboy]

102. The party is in the hands of corporations?

So why won't Dean say anything about this? Is he afraid, or is he just too weak to do anything about it? Or maybe, he supports the corporate takeover of our party

[AtomicKitten]

84. oh, this old chestnut again

:boring:

[doggyboy]

87. I guess you didn't get the memo

Carville (and Schumer, and Clinton, and Clinton, and McAuliffe, etc) are "enemies of DU"

[AtomicKitten]

89. it's regurgitation of bile

I don't know why anyone bothers repeatedly creating a new thread when this same old grind can be excavated verbatim from the archives, thus cutting out the middle man.

[ellisonz]

91. The posted article is from June 1st 2007.

I used the afformentioned cliche to point out the DLC is not very popular around here anymore.

DFA RULZ

[doggyboy]

94. It's still old news

[ellisonz]

95. Not really.

He's still beating the damn war drum.

[doggyboy]

104. And Dean supports the Dems who support the war

as DNC chairman, he has no choice. He has to support the party. He could speak out, but then he would lose his job.

[madfloridian]

107. The deleted subthread sends me a message

I will back off and leave the thread to you.

That part where you said ellisonz and I were like trolls who were banned years ago for not liking the DC...all gone. The post where you called out blm who is not even posting in this thread...all gone.

I get messages very quickly.

The thread is all yours. I know when I am on shaky ground.

[doggyboy]

109. All you have to do is follow the rules

and stop accusing me. No reason to abandon your own thread.

And I won't alert on this newest post of yours for once again accusing me of saying something I never said, as a courtesy, but I hope it's not a sign that you are unable to stop making false accusations. How about we discuss Dean? After all, he is a subject of this thread, right?

And just to be clear. The trolls weren't booted for disliking the DLC. They were booted because they publically admitted they were trolls. Remember seventhson? He was a troll. He admitted it.

[ellisonz]

113. Via con dios!

:puffpiece:

:thumbsdown:

[wyldwolf]

110. BREAKING: Carville Disses MadFloridian's Hero, Poisons Young College Minds

[ellisonz]

112. BREAKING! CARVILLE SLEEPS WITH GOP ENEMY.

:puke:

Oh, and it's not just madfloridian's hero, it's the chairman of the party...and hey, look who's back in Congress. The sad truth is that the DLC and Carville are still living off their 1992 reputation, and that was hardly impressive given the enormous third party vote.

Sour grapes? Methinks so.

:thumbsdown:

[wyldwolf]

114. sure. MadFloridian reminds us of that weekly, as well.

[ellisonz]

115. You're welcome.

[AZBlue]

116. I'm not sticking up for either guy, but I do want to know why more money wasn't spent?

Does anyone have a link or answer? This is an honest question - not flame-bait.

[AtomicKitten]

117. people get caught up in the cult of personality crap

To me they're players on a chess board. Politics is a spectator sport.

I too believe it's balls-out at election time, but I accept the notion that that is an opinion and others have different opinions, and that in the words of Stuart Smallie is okay.

Hi AZBlue! :)

[AZBlue]

121. Hi AK! I couldn't agree more with your summation.

:hi: Particularly the chess board analogy - it's truly all a game.


But, going (way) off-topic, maybe more politicians should listen to Stuart! "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggone it, people like me!"

Or just listen to Cult of Personality by Living Colour!
"You gave me fortune
You gave me fame
You me power in your gods name
Im every person you need to be
Im the cult of personality"

On second thought....too many politicians are listening to that already. Let's stick with Stuart.



(wow...I really need some sleep, huh?
can you say loopy?? )

[madfloridian]

118. Here is one from Hotline.

There are others. Dean did take out a line of credit, but he did not give it to Rahm without wanting some say in how it was spent. The DNC chair is not supposed to question. He did. The main argument was over Duckworth, whom Rahm had put in over Cegelis who already had a base and organization. He spent at least a quarter million trying to get the grassroots candidate out of the race and Duckworth in. He spent 3 million on her campaign. Dean said no because Rahm wanted TV ads. He said he give for GOTV.

Read the hotline post thoroughly. It explains a lot.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/11/the_carville_cl.html

[madfloridian]

119. And another from Hotline.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/11/carvilles_still.html

[AZBlue]

120. Thank you!

Very helpful!!!

[mitchum]

122. Any chance of the Carville/ Matalin marriage ending in a murder/suicide?

it would be...uh...uh...uh...uh...uh...tragic

[fishwax]

123. I'm so old, I remember when carville was still relevant

It's a little bit sad to see him nowadays ...

[LaPera]

124. Fucking Carville wants the DNC job...so then the DLC & the DNC can lock it up for Hillary!!!

Fuck the DLC and fuck James Carville (and Emanuel)!

All my support is behind Howard Dean!!

:kick: