Andrew Sullivan on the Dem. Debate

[illinoisprogressive]

i love the last part where he describes a possible GE matchup. priceless.


She did well, it seems to me. There were times when her robo-lecture act began to wear down my ear-drums, but, in general, Senator Clinton bestrode the debate as an authoritative figure. In fact, I've never witnessed a U.S. political debate in which a woman clearly dominated as she did tonight. She was hawkish, and I was frankly surprised to hear her state baldly that "we are safer than we were," referring to the Bush administration's counter-terrorism policies. (Truth be told, I don't really know the answer to that question, but I suspect we are much less safe than we were, say, two years ago. Fueling Jihad with an incompetent, half-assed occupation of a Muslim country is the worst of all worlds for national security.) She also deftly began to criticize the Iraqis for the chaos that the Bush occupation spawned. Well: up to a point. We had a six-month window of opportunity to leverage the removal of Saddam to reboot Iraq but we blew it. And that scarred little girl whose photograph I posted earlier today is not to blame for anything.

Yes, there were the usual knee-jerk responses. Of course, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was a mistake, Senator. It doubled the rate of gay discharges from the military. It has denied us critical skills in a dangerous war. But Clinton cannot concede anything critical about someone she called at one point "my dear husband." Yes, I gagged on that one. What a total phony. But an effective, shameless one.

Obama? Not out-classed at all by Clinton. But he has to find a way to break through her armature. He didn't tonight. He gathered steam toward the end, I thought, and was very effective on the middle class squeeze. It was also good to hear a Democrat speak of fiscal rectitude as a "progressive" value. Yeah, why should big government liberals actually want to waste all the money they're going to spend on us for our own good? An obvious point, but one not made often enough. Obama has the ability to pitch liberalism to conservatives and independents. That's a skill the Demo

Still: she wins this one. It kills me to admit it. But there you are. And as it sinks in, a dreadful specter emerges. Think June 2008. Think Romney vs Clinton. Plastic vs Perma-Freeze. It could happen.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

[Tejanocrat]

1. The Repu punditocracy is salivating to run against HRC

[patrice]

4. We could lose the presidency AND some Senate seats. nm

[DU9598]

7. Or more likely

win the presidency and pick up senate seats.

Pessimism is so pervasive amongst some ... but I remember the same blather prior to the 06 elections.

[pocoloco]

10. "Trust me , Kerry will win in a landslide"

[patrice]

14. "Just believ" is the blather that got us into this mess.

You're reinforcing my sense that there isn't a great deal of difference between HC and GW.

Way to go! It's a good idea to insult people to get them to support your candidate.

[Erika]

2. Hillary was great.

Can hardly wait until the GOP debates posing which entitlements should be cut for the needy in our country so W's imperialsm can continue.

[patrice]

8. She WAS good, but it isn't about that.

It's about Redeployment rather than Return. It's about Residual forces and permanent bases. It's about "nothing being off of the table." It's about being willing to bomb innocent people to get a guy that "we" are mad at, because he is mad at us, because of GOVERNMENT policies in foreign lands.

There are too many Reps and Dems who are giving up on the parties. You're asking us to just forget about some stuff that has resulted in the deaths of a whole bunch of people, Americans and Iraqis. We're just supposed to forget about it and trust HC to get it right the next time around.

[bigdarryl]

3. be very SUSPICIOUS of a republican saying Clinton winning debates

there job is to run her against Rudy or Thompson. and i got to say i don't feel good about another actor Running against a democrat in 08.

[Bucky]

9. Thank you, Big D

They still want her nominated. She might be more a candidate than they give her credit for. But count on this: they are ready to swift-boat her. I don't know how and I don't know with what; but in my gut I know they already have the ammo loaded to tear her to peices next year.

They probably have something on all the bigs: Richardson the Groper, Edwards the Shyster, Obama the you-know-what. Nothing is uglier than the PR campaign of a cornered and down-by-six-points Republican candidate. These debates tell us nothing of how the Republicans will attack next year.

[illinoisprogressive]

5. he is a conservative but, he seems to do alot of soul searching. he gives

credit to alot of dems and doesn't trash them. he trashed the gop.
i think he is more a moderate. And he is often quoted on liberal blogs as legit.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. I like Andrew Sullivan

I don't agree with him on everything, but honestly, I don't agree with any human being except myself on anything.

[tsuki]

18. You're lucky. I sometimes don't agree with me. nt

[Name removed]

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[Jim Sagle]

12. The one that RNC stooge Sully DIDN'T mention is the one who did the best.

Edwards.

[venable]

17. Edwards by a good margin

on Iran, on the Global War.., on Health Care, on the reality that there are differences between the candidates, on every single issue he was able to address, he stood above the others.

He showed strength, confidence, intelligence.

[beachmom]

20. Not really. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

13. I don't give a damn what this guy thinks. nt

[patrice]

15. Style over substance. nm

[Gloria]

16. Think Gloria is so turned off by the prospect of Plastic vs. Perma-Freeze

that she sits out for the first time ever.

All that crap about being safer, chastising the Iraqis for the chaos.....I couldn't vote for Bush, I can't bear voting for it in a "Democratic" package....

[Totally Committed]

21. I hear you.

I feel remarkably the same way.

TC

[xchrom]

19. i don't care what a republick party tapeworm has to say about

democratic debates.

sullivan sucks bile for a living -- and i'm going to listen to him? -- i don't think so.