Pretend Hillary didn't say "we are safer"

[ProSense]

''I believe we are safer than we were.''

Pretend she's correct because she's the frontrunner.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. WTF? Did she really say that?

[IndianaGreen]

15. To the question about Bush's GWOT and PATRIOT making us safer than we were before

Hillary's actual reply was:

"I believe we are safer than we were. We are not yet safe enough."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. Feh. The consensus seems to be that we are less safe now

because of Bush's idiotic foreign policy consisting mainly of poking sticks in wasps' nests. Does anyone seriously think that the same maroons who gave us the NOLA debacle are actually keeping us safer?

Sorry, Hillary. I don't buy it.

[ddeclue]

72. What's your point..that's almost word for word BushCo talking points!

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. woah, dude

that was unnecessary.

[Captain Hilts]

4. Flag on the play. Penalty. And if she's a "dumb bitch," what's your sexist comment about GWB?

[Erika]

7. Some would choose to attack Hillary

rather than W. It makes one wonder their motives.

Hillary did a great job.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bucky]

18. "has her by the tit"? There should be a flag on that play, Poco.

The phrase "has her by the tit" is blatant misogyny. I don't like her war positions, but I don't think our critiques of her require violent rape imagery to sell the point.

[Erika]

6. As a senator, she knows the increased security now in play

She needed to respond to how W has tripled threats.

[Jim Sagle]

8. Let's pretend she's an actual Democrat.

:rofl:

[Erika]

10. She is an actual democrat

I loved her Barry Goldwater quote.

[Jim Sagle]

12. Whatever you say, ace.

[Erika]

16. Good

Hillary is one heck of a woman!

[Jim Sagle]

31. But still not much of a Democrat.

[Erika]

35. So you say

Some like to down women, some like to down Dems. Some like to do both. Seldom are they democrats.

[Jim Sagle]

53. I didn't down her as a woman. And since she's not an actual Democrat, I didn't down her as one.

[emilyg]

55. Yes she is. Thank you.

[mckeown1128]

60. yeah she is a democrat and...

while we are at it so is Joe LIEberman:sarcasm:

[The Magistrate]

62. Actually, Sir, Lieberman Is Not A Democrat

But you knew that, of course....

[TheWatcher]

63. Best joke I have heard all day!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[The Magistrate]

24. Not Only An Actual, But A Leading Democrat, Mr. Sagle

She seems to have done pretty well for herself tonight.

[Jim Sagle]

27. For herself, yeah. For anybody else, not so much.

Same as it ever was.

[StudentProgressive]

29. If you've taken a Poli Sci class you'd know elections in this country

are about Money. It has nothing to do with the validity of one's ideas. That's not even what insider campaign literature is about. So let's not pretend.

[The Magistrate]

36. Do You Think One Would Help Me. Sir?

It is growing so hard for me to match the knowledge and wit on display in this place....

Perhaps there will be a solution to my problem offered on the cover of this book of matches....

[StudentProgressive]

9. I like how she also pretended she didn't approve of attacking Iraq

I seem to remember her coming to the floor and making kind statements as the war against Iraq began.

[Erika]

11. Uh?

W owns the war. See how well he is punishing our troops at www.icasualties.org This is W's war.

[welshTerrier2]

17. it may be "w's" war ...

but a whole lot of Democrats have helped him pay for it ...

and which party brought the Iraq War Resolution to the Senate floor in the first place? hmmmmmmmm ... that sure seems like a foolish thing to have done ...

[Erika]

19. So you saying to vote GOP?

I think you have the wrong forum.

[welshTerrier2]

21. i sure won't be voting for anyone funding bush's war

that would seem to include the GOP ...

i will, however, be voting for a number of progressive Democrats ...

[TheWatcher]

64. And The currently elected Democrats have fought so valiantly to stop him

:eyes:

[welshTerrier2]

13. what she said in that floor speech was that ...

she was voting for the resolution because she "trusted the President" ... what more would anyone need to know about her?

[Erika]

14. She didn't think that a U.S. Pres would sell out his country

She found out that W would.

[welshTerrier2]

20. who'd a thunk it ...

bush turned out to be dishonest ... no way anyone could have suspected that, I suppose ...

[Erika]

22. See www.icasualties.org

The public threw out the GOP in the last elections. Rubber stamping destroyed our country.

[welshTerrier2]

25. aren't you asking me to rubber stamp all Democrats?

it seems that way ...

i plan to vote FOR progressive Democrats. i exclude from that category anyone who just voted to spend more money creating more casualties without putting any restrictions on bush at all.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Erika]

30. B.S. The majority of the world backed W after 9/11, Get it?

No one thought he'd turn like he did.

[welshTerrier2]

38. this may come as a shock to you but ... ummmm ...

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 ... get it ???

we are, after all, talking now about Hillary's IWR vote ... did the "majority of the world" support bush's invasion of Iraq?

[RaleighNCDUer]

57. I thought he'd turn out EXACTLY as he did.

Does that make me so much smarter than Hillary and the rest of the entire world?

Anybody who was paying attention KNEW what * is capable of. No one should have been fooled. So either, they were foold and are stupid, or they were not fooled and are lying.

Which Hillary do YOU want - the stupid or the lying?

[JTFrog]

73. If the majority of the world Backed Bush

where were they in support of the war? Where were their troops? PUHLEEZE

[karynnj]

33. Why didn';t she and Bill speak out in early 2003 when it was clear Bush had

lied in what he said he would do? They had the 2 biggest voices in the Democratic party.

[Erika]

47. Why don't you ask the GOP

Is this the hate dems night? I hope the moderators are following.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. Ask the GOP why the DLC would not condemn the president?

You know, that's not a bad idea at that.

[karynnj]

68. I think it a valid legitimate question

Bill Clinton before the 2006 election said that all Democrats (except Leiberman) voted to get the inspectors in and gave Bush the authority to use as a last resort as he promised. This was essentially Kerry's reason in 2004 and was questioned then. In his case, he did speak out publicly before the war, which made it believable to me that this was true. Since, then he has said the vote was wrong, that he should not have given Bush this trust.

If the media did not accept that reason for the vote from someone whose behavior when the war came near was in line with it, why do you think they will buy it for a very prominent person who was silent? Strength is NOT refusing to say that you were wrong when you were. Sometimes it shows more strength to admit a mistake. Here, giving their approval in advance based on promises of what Bush would do was a mistake - even with the best of intentions. Given his history, that admission, even to himself, had to be harder for John Kerry than anyone else, even if that vote did not make war more likely or mean he was pro-war.

It does not mean that we would have gone to war had she been President. I know Kerry wouldn't have, and I will be looking at Clinton's statements to assess whether I think she would have.

[bread_and_roses]

70. In the elegant language of the internet, there is only one response to that....

BwaaahhhhaaaaaaaaHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :rofl:

[StudentProgressive]

26. Why didn't she go on the floor and say STOP BOMBING INNOCENT PEOPLE

Too triangulatory for that.

[Erika]

32. Why didn't the GOP?

It was their president?

[TheWatcher]

65. Why don't you answer the question?

[welshTerrier2]

34. she also voted against a ban on cluster bomb use in civilian areas

how's that for protecting "innocent people" ?????

anyone need to see a link on that? i'd be happy to provide one.

btw, the ban was proposed by Senator Feinstein. don't you just hate those left-wing Democrats?

[Erika]

37. Evidently you don't know what you are talking about

She did nothing of the kind. You like slapping her down in make belief?

[welshTerrier2]

44. i assume that means you would like to see the proof ... glad to oblige ...

here ... i'll give you a link to the actual vote on the amendment and I'll give you another link to my post about it ...

feel free to challenge anything i've said about Hillary's hideous vote. I'd be more than happy to discuss it in as much detail as you like. for the record, you just stated that I was making things up. You have no knowledge to support that. Here are the facts ... read 'em and weep:

here's a link to the Senate vote on the amendment: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00232

here's a link to my post on the subject: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3292861

I assume since you believed I was making up such terrible things about Senator Clinton's vote that you actually believe her vote was indeed terrible now that you know the truth.

[Erika]

46. If you hate Hillary so much, why are you here?

Just answer that question. You want a list of other forums who would welcome you?

[welshTerrier2]

50. you said i was making things up.

i provided you with information you clearly didn't have. how do you feel about Senator Clinton's vote AGAINST banning cluster bombs in civilian areas?

I strongly disapprove of her vote. I think it's horrible. I didn't say anything about "hating" her. I don't respect her for many reasons. I just gave you one.

I am here because I want to see progressive Democrats take back my party from war hawks and corporate sellouts.

So, now what about that Hillary vote on those cluster bombs? How's that sit with you?

[Erika]

51. I don't deal with Hillary haters

They generally also hate the party. But I love Dennis. You don't see him bad mouthing Hillary. Get the message?

[welshTerrier2]

52. or facts, apparently ...

well, see ya, i guess ...

if you'd like to bury your head in the sand on Democratically-sponsored humanitarian legislation like banning cluster bombs in civilian areas, i guess that goes a long way toward explaining your support for Hillary.

[Erika]

56. Your hatred clouds your objectivity

Do you want a list of forums where your hatred of Dem candidates would be welcome? I think you already are comfortable there.

[welshTerrier2]

59. you seem eager to list other forums ... that's your choice

got any that support candidates like Kucinich, Gravel and perhaps Gore ... i'd be interested to see one with fewer supporters of the non-progressive, corporate wing of the Party ...

[mckeown1128]

61. wow!!!

You're rejecting fact reinforced criticisms of Hillary by saying (la la la you are just a hillary hater) ... I think I have seen people use that fallacy in logic before..hmmm... sounds like what faux news does when anyone questions shrub they just call the critics bush haters and ignore the facts....why don't you admit that hillary was wrong in her vote???

[Forkboy]

75. It's fucking pathetic,isn't it?

[TheWatcher]

66. Your blind cheerleading faith clouds yours

[karynnj]

69. WT2 is a solid liberal Democrat

who always makes a good case for what he/she believes. Even in disagreement, her/his arguments are based on facts and a consistent, well explained set of values.

This is primary season. We should be looking at the candidates objectively. Knowing that Hillary voted against Senator Fienstein's cluster bomb amendment is worth knowing. She wasn't the only one - Dodd and Biden did too. Obama voted for it. I really don't have a candidate but I lean to Obama and Dodd. This is a vote that troubles me on Dodd. I don't expect to find a candidate where I agree with every vote, that wasn't true even with Kerry - who I would vote for in an instant if were running.

There would be no primary discussion at all if someone couldn't politely point out Hillary's votes and positions.

[Forkboy]

74. They choose to ignore the uncomfortable stuff.

But Erika thought she looked GREAT last night! That's the important thing.

[ProSense]

39. Maybe this is why there is no accountability

Clinton, a potential presidential candidate in 2008, said that despite their "many disagreements about many, many issues," she has always had a good personal relationship with the president.

"He's been very willing to talk. He's been affable. He's been good company," said Clinton, D-N.Y.

The junior senator from New York, who is up for re-election this year, said she is still thankful for Bush's personal commitment to helping rebuild lower Manhattan after Sept. 11, 2001.

She recalled how the president, in the grim days that followed the terror attacks, pledged in a private meeting with New York lawmakers to help rebuild the shattered city.

"It was a very personal, very emotional discussion and when we asked him for the help that New York needed he immediately said yes," said Clinton.

At that meeting, Bush pledged more than $20 billion in aid and tax incentives. Some New York Democrats have since charged the Bush administration has fallen billions of dollars short of that goal because some of the programs were underused, but Clinton said the president kept his promise.

"He always kept it on track," she said. "He made sure we got the resources that we needed and I'm very grateful to him for that. ... I am very appreciative in the time when the people I represented needed his help, he was there for us."

more

[Erika]

42. She appreciated his help in 9/11

That's before he chose to abuse his power by attacking the innocent coutry of Iraq and killing our kids without cause.

[TeamJordan23]

40. Did Hillary Look Younger tonight?

Or was that just me.

[Erika]

43. She's a classy lady

I saw Chelsea in her tonight.

[IndianaGreen]

48. There are better things than BOTOX out there that you can use to shave years away

I am glad she ditched those draperies she wears as clothes and for once, wore a decent outfit that imparted an air of gravitas.

[MidwestTransplant]

54. I noticed that too. She looked quite attractive.

[sampsonblk]

41. What she said was weak, but she still wins by a mile

At one point during the debate, you could almost get the feeling that some of them were trying out for a job with her or something. Like they were all working extra hard to stay on her good side - even when she was wrong.

Very telling, imho.

[Erika]

45. Yep. She exuded power and knowledge

She was great.

[nealmhughes]

49. We're safer because she voted against banning those cluster bombs that DiFi and Leahy wanted to be

restricted!

Why, what if an imaginary US client state -- je m'ajuste -- ally had to have an invasion -- I slip again! Darn! -- "anti-terrorist action" and there were no cluster bombs for the Lebanese kids -- um, I meant to type something else, my fingers seem to be on autopilot by my evil personality Oktobriana tonight -- enemies were to pick them up and play with?

[Boo Boo]

67. It was an asinine statement, divorced from reality. /nt

[JTFrog]

71. She lost any chance she had with me last night.

She takes hawkish all the way to warmonger.