Why couldn't Hillary tab Bill Clinton as her running mate?

[Alhena]

I know, the first impression is to laugh at this idea, but why? Hillary's stated role for Bill in her administration is to serve as an adviser when she needs it and otherwise to serve as a sort of roving ambassador of goodwill. That sounds like a very good description of the vice president's job anyway.

And there is a LOT of Bill Clinton nostalgia out there, and a Clinton-Clinton ticket would be very powerful for that reason. Of course, Bill would not agree to this kind of arrangement with anyone else, but I feel confident he would do so for Hillary.

As an Obama supporter, I'd just as soon see Barack stay in the Senate or become Secretary of State if he doesn't win the nomination- he needs a REAL job that can use his great talents. My enthusiasm for a Clinton candidary (which I will support if she's the nominee regardless) will go up a good deal if I see Bill Clinton on the ticket with her.

[TransitJohn]

1. Because BigDog isn't allowed to be president again. eom

[Alhena]

7. Is that accurate? Here's the 22nd amendment text

Amendment XXII
Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

- end quote -

I don't see that as prohibiting Clinton from running for VICE president. Of course, this issue would have to be clear since Hillary wouldn't want to have to worry about some lawsuit. But it looks pretty clear to me.

[Warpy]

13. Read on

and check the part of the constitution where eligibility for Vice President is discussed.

The VP MUST be eligible to serve as President in his own right.

[Alhena]

22. Constitutional law experts say Bill could be VP ... link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/19/AR2006101901572_pf.html

"In preventing individuals from being elected to the presidency more than twice, the amendment does not preclude a former president from again assuming the presidency by means other than election, including succession from the vice presidency," they wrote. "If this view is correct, then Clinton is not 'constitutionally ineligible to the office of president,' and is not barred by the 12th Amendment from being elected vice president."

Others share that opinion. Three former White House lawyers consulted by The Washington Post (two who served President Bush and one who served Clinton) agreed that the amendment would not bar Clinton from the vice presidency. A federal judge, who noted that he has "no views on the matter," said the plain language of the amendment would seem to allow Clinton to "become president through succession."

[rinsd]

27. That should read some constitutional law experts,

From the same article

Still, that view is not universal. Judge Richard A. Posner of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit said by e-mail that "read literally, the 22nd Amendment does not apply" and therefore Clinton could be vice president. "But one could argue that since the vice president is elected . . . should he take office he would be in effect elected president. Electing a vice president means electing a vice president and contingently electing him as president. That interpretation, though a little bold, would honor the intention behind the 22nd Amendment."

Bruce Ackerman, a constitutional scholar at Yale Law School, also pointed to original intent in addressing the issue in his book this year, "Before the Next Attack: Preserving Civil Liberties in the Age of Terrorism." The amendment, he wrote, "represents a considered judgment by the American People, after Franklin Roosevelt's lengthy stay in the White House, which deserves continuing respect" and "should not be eroded" by a narrow interpretation allowing someone to manipulate his way to a third term.

Eugene Volokh, a law professor at the University of California at Los Angeles who was a clerk for Sandra Day O'Connor when she was on the Supreme Court, focused on the broader meaning of the language in the amendment in reaching the same conclusion. "My tentative answer is that 'eligible' roughly means 'elected,' " he wrote on his Web site, the Volokh Conspiracy, this summer, meaning that if Clinton cannot be elected president, he is no longer eligible at all.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

34. Volokh is a "results oriented" idiot . . .

. . . if that's his rationale. The phrase "constitutionally ineligible" in the 12th Amendment was adopted in 1804, nearly 150 years before the 22nd Amendment was adopted. So, obviously, when first adopted, the phrase "constitutionally ineligible" did NOT encompass a person who was precluded from being elected President again after having been elected twice. Rather, the phrase included only those criteria specified in Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be ELIGIBLE TO the Office of the President; neither shall any Person be ELIGIBLE TO that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Prior to the adoption of the 12th Amendment, the Vice-President was the person who finished second in the voting (i.e., by the Electoral College) for President. Given this, it was initially unnecessary for the Constitution to specify that the Vice-President had to meet the "eligibility" requirements for the office of the President. Only with the changes worked to the election process by the 12th Amendment was it necessary to include such language.

[jcrew2001]

50. So someone finally agrees with me that Bill shouldn't be eligible in any capacity

If he is VP - it Will be challenged and brought to the Supreme Court - All of these "experts" won't matter - it will be up to the Conservative Supreme Court to "decide" if Bill is eligible for VP - and they will decide that he is not, just like they decided Bush would be president.

[jobycom]

15. Ah, not so fast, that's debatable.

Amendment XXII (term limit):
Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

Amendment XII: ...But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

He's not forbidden from "being" president, just from being "elected" president. Clinton still meets all the requirements to be president, just not to be elected.

It's a fine point, and I doubt either Clinton would want Bill as VP, but the legal point is debatable, unless there is some legal nuance I don't know about. (And that's possible).

[jcrew2001]

51. It will be challenged and brought to the supreme court if Bill tries this

regardless what experts think - the SC can decide whatever they want; and they will decide against Bill because they are GOPers.

[Freddie Stubbs]

2. Because he constitutionally ineligible to serve as VP

[thereismore]

3. Because he cannot serve as Prez again, even if she gets incapacitated. nt

[Captain Hilts]

4. Prez and Veep have the same legal requirements/qualifications.

So, no "Pa" and "Ma" Ferguson kind of stunts.

[napi21]

5. I hate to complain, but this question gets answered DAILY on DU.

What do we have to do to get everyone to KNOW THE CONSTITUTION????

[BOSSHOG]

11. I'm reading the 22nd Amendment

in my handy dandy book form copy provided by Barnes and Noble and I can't see how that would preclude him from being anyone's running mate. I don't think it would be a good idea. No sense in tying a Big Dog Down, but its just another tough worded amendment.

[Alhena]

12. Show me the language of the 22nd amendment which so provides

I wasn't aware this had been discussed before- my bad- but regardless, I quoted the 22nd amendment above and it doesn't seem as clear as you state.

Granted, if this is a close issue - which it arguably is - then Hillary won't bother.

[jobycom]

20. What we have to do is simple. We have to answer the question every time it is asked.

People are born everyday. People come to DU for the first time every day. Reagan destroyed the public education system. There are many reasons for not knowing. We should be one of the solutions to the ignorance of the world.

[BOSSHOG]

36. God Bless the patience and wisdom of JOBycom

[jobycom]

45. yeah, right.

You should hear me trying to put together IKEA furniture. Patience and wisdom must include a lot of four letter words, shouted loudly! :rofl:

It's much easier to display Patience and Wisdom when you have an edit function!

[BOSSHOG]

47. I am also quite averse to "some assembly required"

[question everything]

38. Thank you. And based on the different

interpretation by scholars as posted above, many of us still look to DU for information and not to be mocked. Even those of us that have been on DU for many years now.

[alkaline9]

6. He's not eligible to be president for more than 2 more years...

...10 years total... I'm not sure if that precludes him from a 4 year VP position?

[Tom Joad]

8. No, the first imprression is to scream "No, don't do that to us" at the idea.

8 years of Clinton is bad enough.

[Bucky]

9. Because it would be a politically dumb move.

I don't compliment Mrs Clinton often, but I will say she doesn't do dumb things.
.

[rinsd]

10. Because Clinton is not eligible for the job because of the 22nd amendment.

[geek tragedy]

14. Actually, he's not eligible to be ELECTED

president again.

It doesn't say he can't serve.

[napi21]

17. Yes. So isn't a VP candidate's name on YOUR BALLOT?

Sorry folks, but we elect a President AND a Vice President! Those who fight this are really trying to parse words a bit too much!

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

23. In what respect is it "parsing"?

The 22nd Amendment would preclude Bill Clinton from being elected President again; of that, there is no doubt. The question is whether The 22nd Amendment's prohibition on B. Clinton's being elected President again renders him "constitutionally ineligible TO the office of President" within the meaning of the 12th Amendment. The answer to THAT question is much less clear.

[jobycom]

24. There are dog catchers on some ballots, too.

If he is running for dogcatcher, or Representative, or VP, he's not being elected "president" again, so it's debatable whether the 22nd applies.

[geek tragedy]

48. It only says he can't be elected president.

Nowhere does it say he can't be elected Vice-President.

[BOSSHOG]

21. I guess I'm a little slow

but could you please explain that to me. I got the second amendment in front of me and I don't see anything precluding him from being anyone's running mate.

[jobycom]

26. Twelfth Amendment

Says the the VP has to be eligible to be president. But it doesn't say he has to be eligible to be elected president. The 22nd means Bill is not eligible to be elected, but it doesn't exactly say he's not eligible to be president. It's an interesting debate. Meaningless right now, too, since Hillary would be a fool to make Bill her running mate. You use your running mate to strengthen your ticket, but she's already married to him, and that already attaches him to her ticket. She can use the VP slot to shore up some other demographic.

Just my thoughts on the thing. Not that I'd mind seeing Bill as VP.

[BOSSHOG]

28. Isn't our constitution a hodge podge wet dream for English Professors?

I do not think Big Dog should be put on a leash and we don't need the precedent of a President filing for divorce from a Vice President cause he's fucking half the cabinet (the female half.)

He could be the unpaid ambassador at large, spreading love and charm globally.

[jobycom]

33. Given the time span it covers

the evolution of language is as difficult as the awkward legal language. The Second Amendment is my favorite. "Keep and bear arms." That's vague enough for gun nuts to say "We have the right to own guns" and anti-gun nuts to say "There's nothing about guns or ownership in the darned thing!" Not to mention the word "regulated," which now has the implication of legal regulation, and which then might have had (another debated point) more of the connotation of "strong, well-formed."

Basically, it's like the Bible or any other religious text. The Constitution can mean anything you really want it to mean, and it can often mean exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to mean.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. Because it would be an insane, politically disastrous idea.

[Alhena]

18. I found an WaPo article on this very issue ... link

It seems to be a gray area of the law. But most experts say he could do it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/19/AR2006101901572.html

VP Bill? Depends on Meaning of 'Elected'

By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 20, 2006; A19



The prospective presidential candidacy of Hillary Rodham Clinton has given rise to plenty of speculation about the notion of Bill Clinton as the nation's first gentleman. But what about another role? How about, say, vice president?

...

"In preventing individuals from being elected to the presidency more than twice, the amendment does not preclude a former president from again assuming the presidency by means other than election, including succession from the vice presidency," they wrote. "If this view is correct, then Clinton is not 'constitutionally ineligible to the office of president,' and is not barred by the 12th Amendment from being elected vice president."

Others share that opinion. Three former White House lawyers consulted by The Washington Post (two who served President Bush and one who served Clinton) agreed that the amendment would not bar Clinton from the vice presidency. A federal judge, who noted that he has "no views on the matter," said the plain language of the amendment would seem to allow Clinton to "become president through succession."

[Forkboy]

19. 400 replies...coming right up!

[William769]

25. Did the other thread make it to 400?

[Forkboy]

30. Actually I think it went well over that.

Scary,isn't it?

[William769]

32. Yes.

[rinsd]

29. Naaaahhh this one is a consitutional question dealing with Bill as VP

The other thread was someone stating that 1st spouse has been added to the line of succession being told they were wrong only to repeat the same statement over and over again.

[Forkboy]

39. Ok...then put me down for just 200 replies then.

;)

[rinsd]

46. Well it is a more serious discusion!

:hi:

[madrchsod]

31. i`d have to move if that happened

but it won`t. that would be the kiss of death for anyone to consider big dog

[question everything]

35. I have recently read that since JFK appointed his brother

to be a cabinet member, an anti-nepotism law passed. Thus, Clinton cannot even be her secretary of state, as many often suggest.

[BOSSHOG]

40. An argument can be made that

a husband and wife are not related. I intend to question everything.

[SeattleVet]

37. Don't the Pres & VP have to be from different states?

Isn't that why Darth Cheney changed his residency back to Wyoming from Texas so he could be on the ticket with DimSon?

[jgraz]

41. Yes, and there's still a legal question about Cheney

It's pretty easy to see he's a Texas resident. Of course, why should a little thing like the Constitution get in his way?

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

43. No, the President and Vice President do not have to be from different states.

Rather, per the 12th Amendment, the Constitution precludes an Elector from a given state from casting his or her vote for President for a person from that same state and also casting his or her vote for Vice President for a person also from that same state. That is, the 12th Amendment provides that the "Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves."

This means that, had Bush and Cheney both been deemed to have inhabitants of Texas in 2000, the Electors from Texas could not have voted both for Bush for President and for Cheney for Vice President.

[SeattleVet]

49. So this would involve the candidates having enough of a

landslide that one or the other could do without the electoral votes from NY state?

[Radical Activist]

42. People would assume Bill was the *real* President.

That will be a hard enough impression to combat without Bill holding an official position. It would be nice if the first woman President could make it on her own accomplishments rather than her husbands celebrity.

[jcrew2001]

52. Everyone still wants Bill to serve a 3rd term

Hillary's just a way to get around the 22nd amendment.

[itcfish]

44. A VP

Cannot have anything that would impede him from running for the presidency and Bill Clinton cannot run for President again. Therefore he cannot run for VP either.

[ddeclue]

53. 22nd Amendment in conjunction with 25th precludes it.

He can't discharge his duties as Vice President because his primary purpose is to succeed the President in the event of death or disability and he can't do that without violating the 22nd Amendment.

Doug D.

[jcrew2001]

54. If Bill tries this - it will be brought to the Supreme Court no matter what

and they will decide that he is inelible, not just because of the 22nd amendment, but because they are GOPers. The supreme court will clarify the 22nd and bar Bill from the VP spot - and IMO should bar him from First Spouse.