Who Won Last Night's Debate: FINAL CALL!!!

[Bullet1987]

Since I'm not a donor I can't post a poll (which is stupid).

Even though I support Obama and he hit some good notes yesterday...I have to say Biden and Edwards won yesterday (despite what the media says). Both were strong, Biden was very passionate and serious about Sudan and other issues. And Edwards came out swinging and showed he really wanted it and also hit some high notes.

[BeyondGeography]

1. Mr. 4 and 1/2 years late on the war?

I don't think so.

[venable]

5. yes, that guy who your man thanked for his honesty

yes, the man who showed real strenght and character and told Obama that his health care plan does not provide universal coverage so please quit saying it does, and who told HRC that there were, in fact, real differences between the candidates on Iraq.

John Edwards won the debate.

[BeyondGeography]

13. Edwards has some strengths, but leadership against the war he authorized

isn't one of them.

I thought he rebounded nicely after the smackdown. He's a formidable campaigner, but he has this little problem called his record.

[venable]

28. is he against the war?

is he the most articulate and passionate anti-war candidate, along with Dennis?

Simple question.

[BeyondGeography]

31. He's arguably the least effective antiwar candidate because of his once unconditional support

for this debacle. Doesn't matter what he says now; he is fatally compromised on the issue, as Obama demonstrated last night. And that was in a friendly, Democratic environment. If, by some miracle, he gets the nomination, the Republicans will make mince meat of him in the general. For it before he was against it; do we really need to see that movie again?

Here's more:

<Edwards has cast himself, along with Dennis Kucinich, as the anti-war candidate. Last night, he called on Democrats in the Senate to keep sending President Bush bills on Iraq that he would have to veto--what Frank Rich has called a "legislative Groundhog Day." He also criticized Obama and Clinton for being insufficiently adamant in opposing funding. "Well, I think there's a difference between leading and following," he declared in characterizing their votes against war spending.

<But Edwards is a poor fit for an anti-war candidate. Biden dealt unceremoniously with his calls to end funding with some simple math: "We have 50 votes in the United States Senate," Biden said. "We have less of a majority in the House than at any time other than the last eight years. Ladies and gentlemen, you're going to end this war when you elect a Democratic president. You need 67 votes to end this war." And, as Obama noted, Edwards voted for the original war resolution. "The fact is, is that I opposed this war from the start," Obama said. "So you're about four and a half years late on leadership on this issue."

<Edwards, of course, has said his vote on the war was "wrong," but he wasn't simply wrong about the war. He behaved irresponsibly. Edwards's failure to read the National Intelligence Estimate prior to the vote was more egregious than Clinton's. Edwards was a member of the Intelligence Committee and was AWOL when the committee's leading Democrats were voicing skepticism about the war's justification. In June 2003, when it had become clear that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, I asked Edwards's staff whether he would be interested in discussing what Spencer Ackerman and I were discovering about the administration's attempt to deceive the public and Congress. I was told that Edwards didn't want to touch the issue, and he didn't. Instead, as the insurgency in Iraq began to rage and Americans began to suspect they had been bamboozled about the war, he continued to talk about the "two Americas." >

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w070604&s=judis060407

[venable]

33. many disagree

but I respect that that's your opinion, and the opinion of the writer for The New Republic.

[ddeclue]

32. That would Mrs. 4-1/2 years late on the war - Hillary...

Edwards recanted very early on - not 4-1/2 years late as Obama asserted. He was apologizing at least as far back as 2005 because I saw him do this publicly in person in Florida - so Obama is wrong on this point. Edwards is very much against the war.


Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[BeyondGeography]

39. That's correct, but Edwards is the one who picked the fight

not Hillary. Obama did exaggerate, but Edwards really doesn't want to get into a conversation about when was the exact date when he did a 180-degree turn on the war, does he?

[flpoljunkie]

2. CNN's Bill Schneider said Obama and Edwards won the debate last night. At noon he said Hillary's

performance would allow her to kept front runner status.

Earlier on CNN, Terry Jeffries, ubiquitous Republican pundit, agreed Hillary won--altho, of course, he hastened to add that he does not agree with her ideologically. Have we heard one Repubican pundit who did not think Hillary won?

I doubt it.

[flpoljunkie]

17. Obama won, of course! #2 Edwards, #3 Hillary.

[AzDar]

3. Al Gore!

[LSparkle]

4. BINGO! I was left wanting him to jump into the race even more ...

Although, in his absence, I think Edwards gained some ground last night.

[Dawgs]

8. Is anyone else tired of this response?

Gore didn't show up as a candidate, so it's real easy to say he won. He didn't answer any questions last night, so you can't say he won.

I can't say the Atlanta Braves won last night in a game between the Yanks and the Red Sox because it doesn't make any sense - even if the Yankees and Red Sox looked terrible. It's just stupid.

[AzDar]

20. Look, Goofball..it was a joke (or WAS it?)....

:eyes:

[quinnox]

6. Hillary Clinton

won the debate, with Obama second. She was forceful and smart in her answers. Obama was better in the first half than the second. He stumbled a bit on a couple questions. Edwards was third, but came off too much like he was spoiling for a fight, kind of desperate. Although he seemed to have the best policy proposals and ideas. Richardson was the loser.

[Forkboy]

7. My bias says Kucinich...,my objectiveness says Hillary or Obama.

[AtomicKitten]

16. Kucinich did well .... until he started talking about karma.

That really hits a sour note in any political discussion, not that it's not true but rather because it invokes the new age aura that has a tendency to cause some people to not take Kucinich seriously.

[Forkboy]

22. As someone who doesn't believe in karma I can see that....BUT...

..it's more of a shame those people have the tendency to not look beyond that.

[AtomicKitten]

26. Intelligence is mocked by too much of the electorate

... who apparently prefer their candidates dumb and capable of issuing only slogan type soundbytes.

But the general election in the U.S. is what it is - an absurd exercise on the level of a junior high school popularity contest. We need to either go with flow and adapt - or sink, and I refuse to surrender to yet another GOP coup d'etat.

I truly care more about the make-up of the Supreme Court than I do about which Democrat in particular wins the White House.

[jenmarie]

30. That's a good answer!

:applause:

[Forkboy]

34. Hillary is excellent in debates.She is smooth,quick,and pretty much unshakable.

I thought Obama was much more confident this time around,and only really made the one minor mistake on the VA question.I don't necessarily agree with what they said,but I try to look at more than just the words I agree with.

[primative1]

9. Winner?

I doubt one can say anyone is a winner when the corporations have already doled out the millions (or is it billions these days) in prize money that will lure votes into the appropriate candidates columns.
Strictly on aesthetics though, if debating about issues and grading the answers to the questions actually mattered, than I would FOR THE SECOND TIME say that Biden looks like a really serious dude to be considered .... But I know how the party works so ......

[unlawflcombatnt]

29. Corporate Support

I agree with your sentiment about Corporations doling out millions to support their favorite Corporate plutocrat.

I liked Kucinich, and I appreciate his bringing up the canceling of NAFTA & the WTO. He's the only one who even attempted to talk about jobs, wages, or outsourcing. And I doubt Kucinich got much in the way of big money or Corporate support.

[JDPriestly]

10. I'm waiting.

We have a number of great candidates. I am even beginning to warm up to Hillary -- and I never thought I would. Her make-up was softer and she seemed more confident, less harsh in the clips I saw of this debate. (Like lots of other Americans, I don't have cable so I have to rely on bits and pieces on the internet.)

We need to win. I don't think our country will survive another four years of Republican presidency. Therefore, I would like to see who shakes out on the Republican side and select the Democrat best suited to fend off the Republicans' choice.

I would imagine that Hillary could beat Fred Thompson any day. On the other hand, Obama might be the best match against McCain. And Edwards' compassion and sincerity would look really great to voters compared to Giuliani's self-righteous cruelty. Dodd and Biden might be the best matches for other candidates.

Also, at this point, we don't know what skeletons are in the various candidates' closets or just how the public or the candidates will react to the Republicans' personal attacks on the various candidates. It is much to soon to pick an overall winner. And who won a specific debate will soon be forgotten.

I'm very excited about Democratic prospects for 2008. The Republican field is horrible. We can choose the candidate that has the best chance of defeating whomever will be up for the Republicans.

[JoePhilly]

37. My dream outcome ...

Edwards/Obama as the ticket ... Hillary as Senate Majority Leader, Nancy leading the house. That group would find a way to get much done. Put Richardson in the Cabinet, sec of state.

[demnan]

11. I also thought Chris Dodd sounded good.

But Hillary wasn't bad either.

[SaveElmer]

12. 1. Hillary, 2. Biden, 3. Obama...nt

[Kingstree]

14. Obama 1st , Edwards Second, Biden 3rd

[Judge_Mental]

15. I agree with you.

[polichick]

18. I'd give it to Clinton for being most presidential...

But Obama and Edwards both did very well ~ Obama in his thoughtful measured way and Edwards going after the competition; Biden made some interesting and important remarks; Dodd was typically statesmanlike and intelligent; Kucinich and Gravel refreshingly spoke the truth; and Richardson talked about being Governor too much (although I really like him as a person).

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. The people shorting Wolf Blitzer stock.

[Forkboy]

23. Best laugh I've had all day.

Actually the only one...but it was a good one.

Thanks!

[AtomicKitten]

21. we all won - it was a great debate

n/t

[monmouth]

24. Biden, absolutely. I learned from him...n/t

[jakem]

25. No one...

Who even watched it who has not already decided on their candidate?

CNN? 7pm? C'mon...

[MasonJar]

27. I do not think that the millionaires are influencing that many voters.

Number one I doubt many people in the USA left their favorite reruns to watch last night. They will become engaged later. It is awfully early as Gore has frequently said. I love Gore, but even if I did not, I would agree with him that it is too early to be decided. Number two it is still light out and neighborhoods are full of people out with their animals and children and yardwork. I personally was out to dinner with my daughters, so none of us saw the debates...and we are all liberal dems.

[LWolf]

35. I thought many had strong moments.

Hillary had one: the "hypothetical" response.

Gravel had one: the "raiding social security" point.

Biden had one: the campaign funding issue.

Obama had one: I'm sure he did. I'll at least give him credit for making poor answers and poor policy sound good.

Dodd? I don't remember anything particularly strong, but, then again, he wasn't given the same time as some.

Edwards? Several strong points, many adopted from people already on the stage. His best was the point about leadership and not standing quiet. His worst was the lie about being "first" with a health care plan.

Richardson? Several strong points. He was the only one to talk about education at all. I don't agree with him on some issues, but I thought he presented his points openly and fairly.

Kucinich: Best on health care, Iraq, labor issues, and the only one in the place with the courage to refuse to hypothetically bomb innocents for a chance to hypothetically "get" OBL.

[JoePhilly]

36. The top 3 stayed the top 3 ...

Edwards, Hillary, and Obama each had strong moments.

Hillary seemed to step up and speak for the group a few times, which gave her a nice leadership bump.

It was close over all, I'll give Hillary the win on a few extra "Presidential" points.

[OHdem10]

38. Edwards and Biden won, IMO