Would someone please explain to me how people can believe

[EFerrari]

that Hillary Clinton will work for universal health care when she helped open the NYSE even as the air at Ground Zero was toxic?

People are DYING right now because our first responders worked there with no or little protection. Schools were opened. People were let back into their homes.

Can someone explain that to me?



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.usatoday.com/money/markets/2001-09-18-wall-street.htm&h=180&w=180&sz=24&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=ewySWifcgYlMAM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3DNYSE%2BClinton%2B2001%2Bimage%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den

[Taverner]

1. She, like many, was told it was OK

To be honest, I don't fault Bush on that one either. I fault Rudy - he knew the reports and chose to tell the Federal Govt a lie.

[EFerrari]

5. No. The word came down from the WH. The EPA issued a report

Todd-Whitman signed off on it. So did Rudy and so uncuriously did Senator Clinton. (I get not pleasure out of pointing this out. :( )

[rinsd]

21. "so uncuriously did Senator Clinton." You got some proof?

Here's Hillary going after Whitman and the Bush admin on ground zero air quality.

http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/news/statements/details.cfm?id=235569

[EFerrari]

28. Months later. n/t

[rinsd]

32. You just said she signed off on the EPA report issued the week afetr

Or was that simply not true?

[EFerrari]

34. She didn't start denouncing the EPA until Dec -- according to your link.

Nice try.

[rinsd]

36. IOW, you were not being truthful earlier when you said she signed off on it (nt)

[EFerrari]

45. She was there. Was she there against her own will?

:rofl:

[rinsd]

48. How is her banging the gavel (a ceremonial position) = signing off on it?

I suppose Kucinich's appearance at the Fox News debates will be a whole hearty endorsement of FoxNew's journalist integrity by your logic.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

51. Why was she there? Why wasn't she looking into the conditions

at the Pile if she's so health minded?

You tell me.

[rinsd]

54. Now you're blaming Clinton for not overseeing sample taking?

[EFerrari]

78. No, I'm not doing that.

You know, her daughter was in NYC that day. Do you understand that?

[rinsd]

80. So now she risked her daughter's life or are you going to admit she did not know the air was toxic?

[EFerrari]

88. Oh, please. Tell you what. Why don't we pretend that

Clinton had no fucking clue that lower Manhattan was a death trap when she appeared at the NYSE?

Let's pretend she just later got all huffy about health concerns even though she'd been scared to death about her only child on 9/11?

I can do that. I also believe in the tooth fairy.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

107. And you seem to have no problem with fictionalizing my views

to accomodate yours. :)

[rsdsharp]

2. The head of the EPA -- the former Governor of New Jersey

explicitly said that the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. Yes, it turned out to be a lie, but no one knew it at the time. Was Hillary supposed to be able to divine what's safe, and what's not? Not having done so precludes her from working for universal health care? Good God why? what does one thing have to do with another?

[EFerrari]

6. So, how naive do you have to be to accept such a report?

Hmmm?

[jilln]

7. I think many people knew it at the time.

Inside the government and out. And many should have suspected it.

Ms. Clinton may have known it too, but chose to put on a show to reassure people that the country was going to be OK.

[EFerrari]

29. Or, to reassure Wall Street. Likely, both. n/t

[onenote]

3. would someone please explain this non-sequitur to me?

Yes, Hillary Clinton (along with Chuck Schmer, among others) attended the reopening of the NYSE on September 17, 2001. How exactly does that suggest she won't work for universal health care?

[EFerrari]

8. Because you know and I know this person is very intelligent.

And you know and I know that she had a good idea of what had happened in lower Manhattan.

Please, onenote. We disagree often but we don't lie to each other, afaik.

[Phredicles]

56. Still doesn't answer onenote's question.

Cripes, the only Democratic candidate I like less than HClinton is Biden. And even so, this is the second time today I saw a thread with such a ridiculously unfair premise towards her that I felt I had to say something.

There's no need to resort to such absurd grasping for straws here.

But this is why I suppost full public financing of electoral campaign with the corrolary that said campaigns can't start until a few months before the election: As it is, we're appently looking at an eternal electoral season = eternal silly season.

[EFerrari]

115. Grasping for straws? I hope not. It just occurred to me today

that Senator Clinton was urging the populace back into Ground Zero when she had no credible assurance that it was safe.

How is that grasping for straws?

And I agree with you that public financing would go a long way to solve our problems.

[Phredicles]

116. It's grasping for straws because it has nothing to do with universal

health coverage.

If you think she made a bad call on the NYSE reopening, I can understand that. But that still has zero relevance to health care coverage.

[EFerrari]

117. There are thousands of people whose health has been impacted

because they were assured they could safely come back. That should be obvious.

[Phredicles]

118. It's not obvious what that has to do with their health COVERAGE.

Face it, this was a flawed analogy. No reason to keep riding it to the bitter end.

[shenmue]

18. I was wondering that too

:crazy:

[AtomicKitten]

4. my car wouldn't start this A.M. -- efffin Hillary!

n/t

[EFerrari]

10. What crap. There was ash everywhere. Fires were still burning.

People worth their salt knew this was a major ecological problem.

Please.

Ooh, but look! The Stock Exchange opened! Cool!

[AtomicKitten]

15. crap? crap is conveniently dumping crap on someone gratuitously

The SF Chronicle has a great section that outlines the city"s problems, who is responsible (where the buck stops), and how many days it has been since they were appraised of the problem without fixing it.

That sounds like a precise system of blaming. This system at DU of excavating "issues" to dump on the doorstep of someone we don"t like, not so much.

[EFerrari]

17. I posted a picture of her standing there when we know the air

was toxic.

And we also know that people are dying because they are being shaken off for their health benefits from breathing asbestos and glass and god knows what.

Clinton agreed to that. She wasn't careful, to say the least.

And you are shooting the messenger?

[AtomicKitten]

22. You mean where we NOW know, right?

I would say Rudy deserves the lion"s share of the blame, but you go right ahead and pillory HRC for it.

I expect to read nothing less at DU.

[EFerrari]

25. What we NOW know? Plenty of us knew the EPA was full of it.

I did. And I don't pretend to be as astute as Senator Clinton.

[rinsd]

41. "Plenty of us knew the EPA was full of it."

Prove it. There should be plenty of articles out there if there were so many of you out there.

[EFerrari]

44. Google is your friend. n/t

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

52. Okay, I'll go fish. And I'll overlook your tone because

maybe you really believe in this person.

[AtomicKitten]

57. what I believe is what I've come to know as the techniques of bashing at DU

The unreasonable blaming, the bitterness, the less than subtle and not particularly clever way of trying to manipulate opinion against someone one doesn't like.

Thank god there are some people here at DU that actually mull stuff over and have come to recognize a hit job when they see one. They're really quite easy to spot because inevitably they are bereft of fact and reason and instead resemble an ax to grind.

I'm not even voting for HRC in the primary. That's the really sad part. I have no vested interest in this particular candidate.

And it is criminal what DU is doing to one of our strongest contenders.

[EFerrari]

71. DU is criminal because I pointed out that Clinton helped open

the NYSE in spite of her supposed advocacy for universal health care.

I think not.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

76. Well, no. I pointed out that Clinton had no problem inviting people

back into a toxic site when she takes credit for advocating for health care.

If you think that's "criminal", maybe you should consult a criminal attorney.

lol

[AtomicKitten]

129. your OP is a ridiculous non sequitur

I realize bashing Hillary Clinton is the mission statement for some here at DU, but having lived through the recent primary wars here in California that gave Schwarzenegger another term in office, I'm of the mindset that thinks gratuitously bloodying up the candidates in the primary isn't a very good idea.

If you're going to bash, for god sake's make an effort to be in the ballpark of reasonable and factual. This stuff is so very Faux News.

[durrrty libby]

135. Yes indeed it is sad. What is funny, is they think they are clever, when in fact

they are as transparent as a jelly-fish

[AtomicKitten]

139. amen

and amen

[EFerrari]

55. Two seconds, first link. Oh, and thanks for the personal attack

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/07/nyc.air/index.html

[EFerrari]

58. . . .

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=51498

[EFerrari]

59. . . . .

http://www.dailykos.net/archives/004128.html

[EFerrari]

62. . . .

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/environment.html

[EFerrari]

67. . . .

http://www.disasternews.net/news/article.php?articleid=3031

[AtomicKitten]

63. no mention of Clinton

[AtomicKitten]

64. no mention of Clinton

[rinsd]

68. And not a single link saying disagreement earlier than Oct. 2001

So much for "plenty of people" disbelieving the EPA report when it was issued.

[EFerrari]

69. Right. Exactly. Where was she?

I won't irritate you by posting any more of these.

But, where was she? :shrug:

[rinsd]

75. On Sept 10th 2003? I'm not sure where she was.

But I do know she held the 1st hearings on ground zero workers and has been their strongest advocate in Congress.

That she made an issue of ground zero workers at Bush's SOTU.

I also know that according to you banging a ceremonial gavel trumps all that.

[EFerrari]

77. Well, then you assume a good deal. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

66. no mention of Clinton

[AtomicKitten]

60. nice extrapolation

the only mention of HRC from your link:

Also, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-New York, introduced legislation Thursday that would give new federal health benefits to first responders, recovery workers and residents of lower Manhattan who have developed 9/11-related illnesses.

The 9/11 Comprehensive Health Benefit Act would extend Medicare benefits to people suffering from medical or mental health problems associated with exposure to toxic chemicals at Ground Zero.

A companion bill will be introduced in the Senate by Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York.

[rinsd]

61. Oct 6th 2001 memo that came out in 2006.

I thought this was supposed to prove people knew the EPA report was wrong when Hillary went to the NYSE.

[AtomicKitten]

72. don't confuse a personal attack for being annoyed

at the insidious crap available on DU for public consumption

this isn't about you

[rinsd]

50. Your observation, you provide the links (nt)

[rinsd]

24. "Clinton agreed to that. She wasn't careful, to say the least"

By what? appearing at the NYSE? That's your proof?

[EFerrari]

27. Did you not see the jpg I posted of her at the NYSE?

Do a search on what people thought of opening the NYSE that week. Don't believe me. I'm just an English teacher. But if this English teacher knew that people working the pile and working in that area were going to be fucked, go see what real experts knew and said at the time.

Geezus.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

40. It's not my theory but observation. And comfort yourself by attacking

me, it makes no difference.

Hillary Clinton was fine with reopening the stock exchange when that whole area should have been quarantined.

Deal with it. That's not the way a leader behaves.

[rinsd]

46. IOW, no proof. Just BS from someone who been shown to not be truthful (nt)

[EFerrari]

47. Circular argument. lol

[AtomicKitten]

53. non sequitur

n/t

[EFerrari]

91. Not at all. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

128. your OP is a textbook non sequitur

non se·qui·tur (nn skw-tr, -tr)
n:
1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.
2. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.

[onenote]

65. so does that mean she knowingly put her own health at risk?

I'm still not following. She didn't decide that the stock market should reopen. Had she announced that she wasn't going to show up because its too dangerous (but Schumer and Pataki and Guiuliani and a host of traders and other employees of the exchange were there), how would that have played?

What should she have done? ANnounced that all the first responders searching the WTC site should go home until its "safe"?

[EFerrari]

73. Well, who if not a state senator should advocate for caution

under those conditions?

Santa?

/oops

[onenote]

79. The NYSE and the WTC are around 3/4 miles apart

ONe of the articles you rely on makes the point that by Sept 16, the levels of toxic material at a location 4/10ths of a mile from Ground Zero were far below those at Ground Zero. The NYSE was nearly twice as far away, which would suggest that by Sept. 17, the levels were even lower there.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/environment.html

[EFerrari]

81. Oh, for pete's sake Do the same search.

I don't pretend to know all there is to know about the conditions in lower Manhattan during those weeks. But apparently, many people were worried about it and apparently, the cheerleaders that wanted to get the NYSE open decided there was a higher priority.

Senator Clinton was one of those cheerleaders who put the stock exchange over the human life that would be effected by that decision and by her participation.

[rinsd]

84. "I don't pretend to know all there is to know"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3304347&mesg_id=3304400

"Plenty of us knew the EPA was full of it. I did"

[rinsd]

82. That should be the death kneel but it won't be (nt)

[onenote]

86. apparently not

I'm supposed to "search" for something. Not sure what. I thought I had when I cited to the research showing much lower levels of toxic material at a location closer to Ground Zero than the NYSE.

Oh well, off to the baseball game.

[EFerrari]

93. Tell that to the first responders who are dying, onenote.

Have a good time.

[rinsd]

96. And you tell them how you're attacking their biggest advocate in Congress.

I'm sure my cousin would be enthralled that his health woes are the responsibilty of Hillary Clinton vs Bush's EPA and Rudy's OEM because she banged the gavel at the NYSE.

[EFerrari]

99. What color of kool aid do you favor? n/t

[nick303]

148. ..

the projection is so thick you could cut it with a knife

[MistressOverdone]

9. Maybe this would inspire her

to work even harder at universal health coverage!

[EFerrari]

12. Yes, because so many more people would be so utterly helpless

without it. If they didn't die, that is.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rinsd]

14. Info Wars?

Here's Hillary;s record on this

http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/issues/911/

[katsy]

26. I take it back.

Thank you.

[EFerrari]

31. But she was there, cheerleading the re opening of the NYSE

anyway.

That link is backfill. Please.

[rinsd]

13. Can you explain to me why you ignore Hillary's record dealing with this?

http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/issues/911/

[EFerrari]

23. So, she helped open a toxic site but her work since should

exonerate her?

:crazy:

[rinsd]

30. She helped open? It was Hillary's decision to reopen the NYSE?

So her work exposing the fraud of the EPA report and working to help rescuers suffered from this means nothing because she banged the gavel at the NYSE?

That's your point?

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

33. Your hyperbole doesn't minimize her complicity. Sorry.

[rinsd]

38. Was it Hillary's decison to reopen the NYSE or is that another thing that is not true?

[EFerrari]

42. Complicity. What kind of leader would be complicit in that scenario?

[rinsd]

70. So what should she have done?

Not shown up the NYSE opening citing health concerns?

Shutting down ongoing rescue efforts?

[EFerrari]

83. Isn't that what we would call leadership?

[rinsd]

87. Calling off the search for people and not showing up in a ceremonial capacity is leadership?

[EFerrari]

90. I didn't say that. I said it was irresponsible for her to help reopen

the stock exchange in that toxic stew.

Reword it or mischaracterize it any way you want.

I'm sorry. She did that.

[ElizabethDC]

92. She did something you deem irresponsible

and that makes you jump to the conclusion that she won't fight for universal health care (despite the fact that she's done it before)? Quite a leap. This thread is hilarious.

[EFerrari]

95. No, I didn't say that. I said why would you believe she'd fight

for health care when she had no problem compromising the health a(the life) of people she encouraged to return to lower Manhattan when it was toxic?

You find that hilarious? I hope the people who are dying from lung disease are as amused as you are.

[ElizabethDC]

106. She's fought for health care before and she'll do it again

as others have cited, she's done a lot of work on the health issues related to 9/11. Your train of thought has made some interesting (and tenuous) links.

Don't even pretend that I don't take lung diseases seriously. My father has lung cancer, and that's not a joke, even if I think your line of argument is.

[EFerrari]

110. She'll do that over the bodies of hundreds if not thousands

of people.

And I'll just ignore your personal attack because it does matter -- this difference between what people say and what they do.

[ElizabethDC]

111. That Hillary, she's a mass-murderess!

It's one of the reasons she's my candidate. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

112. Who did you lose? Anyone?

Who will you lose? Anyone?

[ElizabethDC]

113. What the hell are you talking about?

I knew I shouldn't have even bothered to wade into this thread - this is just ridiculous.

[EFerrari]

114. I agree. n/t

[rinsd]

98. Except she did not help reopen the NYSE. She banged a ceremonial gavel.

"mischaracterize it any way you want."

I think you have that one quite covered.

[EFerrari]

100. Because cermony, especially carried all over the media

has no meaning or effect.

Check.

Mission Accomplished.

[rinsd]

102. So was the NYSE not going to reopen if Clinton did not show?

[EFerrari]

103. That doesn't speak to her complicity, does it?

[rinsd]

104. No, it speaks to your obvious dishonesty

Which has been nailed quite a few times in this thread.

[EFerrari]

105. My dishonesty? Forgive me for noticing your sacred cows.

lol

[shenmue]

16. I'm sorry, how would not opening the NYSE have helped?

The whole city wanted to get back to work. People would have had to stay inside for a year for it not to have affected anyone.

There is no way she could have anticipated a major disaster like that.

I'm sure she doesn't really want people to have health care, just because she took part in a meaningless symbolic gesture that opens the NYSE's business day.

[EFerrari]

19. Um, not inviting people back into a toxic crime scene

until it was safe would have been a good thing. :eyes:

[onenote]

121. And where is the proof that the NYSE was "toxic"?

One of your own posts cites to a study that shows that by Sept. 16 the level of airborn material at a location 4/10ths of a mile from Ground Zero was already far far lower than it was at Ground Zero and dropping quickly. Given that the NYSE is 3/4s of a mile from Ground Zero, it would seem logical that the levels were basically de minimis at that location on Sept. 17 when the NYSE re-opened. If you have evidence to the contrary about the level of toxic material at the NYSE on Sept. 17, please share.

[AtomicKitten]

137. she don't need no stinkin' proof

n/t

[onenote]

144. LOL!

This thread is getting to be almost as much fun as the goofy thread the other day that insisted that Hillary couldn't be president because it would violate the 22nd Amendment. I'm not even a Hillary supporter (I'm undecided at this point), but these thread are as silly as anything I've seen anywhere on the Internet.

[AtomicKitten]

147. Hey, it beats working, right?

And I'm self-employed.

Hey, wait a minute ...

[CoffeeCat]

20. I don't understand how any Democrat...

...can consider Hillary Clinton, anything other than a corrupt, corporatist,
shill--who is about as progressive as a ping-pong ball.

Who knows when it happened, but we've lost our two-party system. There's
a group of power grabbers (Dems and Reps) who want the corrupt and perverse
status quo to remain. Hillary is one of those Dems.

They volley abortion, gay rights and other polarizing issues back and forth--
in an attempt to fool the public into thinking that we have two political parties in
America.

We don't. We're screwed.

We live in a country owned by the corporations and controlled by the warmongers--in
both parties.

I am sickened by Hillary. She has said very little, as BushCo has decimated the Constitution,
made torture a national pastime, invaded our privacy with illegal wiretaps and turned
our democracy into a crude dictatorship. She refused to denounce her Iraq war vote and
I hear next to nothing on her plan to get us out of Iraq.

She's an abomination, in my opinion and she's not what the Dems need at this critical
juncture in our nation's history.

[AtomicKitten]

140. So, can Hillary count on your vote?

:rofl:

[CoffeeCat]

145. Absolutely, Hillary can count on my vote...

...my vote to send her to Norway!

I should stop sugar coating things, shouldn't I? I should just say
what I really feel and stop being so shy. ;)

[AtomicKitten]

146. * seriously *

You should empower yourself by validating your inner feelings and thoughts because, gosh darn it, it matters.

Because you are good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like you! Don't hold back in the future.

Embrace your inner you.

[Bitwit1234]

37. So now

it is blame Hillary for every thing instead of blaming Bill....if the republicans don't jump on the band wagon the democrats slam her. tsk tsk tsk.. Wonder why people don't blame Obama for the large fires that they had in the warehouse in Chicago. Or maybe he should have been responsible for not dredging out the Chicago rive so they wouldn't have floods...tsk tsk tsk

[AtomicKitten]

39. ya know, come to think of it,

I really didn't care for the movie "Chicago."

Effin Obama!

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

43. No. It's not blaming Senator Clinton for everything.

That's silly overstatement.

It's noticing that she was complicit in the reopening of the stock exchange when it was unsafe to simply be there.

[McCamy Taylor]

85. Bill is God. Hillary is only His wife.

Seriously, do you expect her to know everything in the world? She is not super-mom. It was the EPA's job to check for environmental hazards not the senators' job.

Next, you will blame her for the crucifixion.

[EFerrari]

89. No, not the cruxifixcion but I would expect her to have good info

about the state of lower Manhattan before she showed up there to ring bells.

But, that's just me.

[Zenlitened]

94. "Can someone explain that to me? "

Apparently not! :eyes:

[EFerrari]

97. Apparently not. n/t

[jmp]

108. ...

Because she was working to achieve exactly that back when Obama and Edwards were still in diapers? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

109. No. Because she encouraged people to go back to lower Manhattan

when she had no credible assurance it was safe and she claims to be for universal health care.

[NYCGirl]

120. So did Robert De Niro. String him up! NT

[MonkeyFunk]

119. Just when I think

I've seen the silliest, non-sequitur attacks on Clinton, something like this comes along. Thanks for the giggle.

[wyldwolf]

123. they have been rather desperate, silly, and juvenile lately

[GreenTea]

122. They watch TV...

[Poll_Blind]

124. You got that right. n/t

PB

[mopinko]

125. there was an environmental group doing their own studies

at the time. iirc, they made public statements, and openly petitioned sen. clinton.

[NoodleBoy]

126. wait, I'm confused, was she mayor of New York City at the time?

[On the Road]

127. I'm Actually Kind of Astonished

that Clinton is being blamed for the air quality in NYC.

I didn't really track this immediately after Sep 11. Who were the people claiming the air was toxic and what did they present as evidence?

[AtomicKitten]

131. Astonished, really? --- It's quintessential DU.

A ridiculous non sequitur with 9 recommendations.

Oy vey.

[EFerrari]

132. Simply because YOU can't find a connection between someone

who puts corporate interests over human life and health AND a presidential candidate who purports to advocate for universal health care doesn't make my question -- it was a question -- a non sequitur.

That's your failure to make logical connections, not mine.

Your replies have attacked the questioner rather than address the question. I hope that's satisfying for you but attacking people who ask questions isn't the best argument for HRC's leadership.

A real advocate of hers would know that, of course.

/grammar

[AtomicKitten]

133. your accusation is absurd -- your conclusion unbelievably convoluted

Yeah, I have a problem with your line of attack, a textbook non sequitur, but continuing to defend it as being anywhere in the ballpark of valid and legitimate is amusing and so very DU.

You're going to have to dig deeper and try a little bit harder if you want to pretend to initiate a substantive debate without being called on the premise.

Good luck on the bashing.

[EFerrari]

134. Um, the OP makes no accusation and my question is

as straightforward as possible. That you have to distort it into some kind of rabid attack is your privilege but has nothing to do with my OP.

Try again.

[AtomicKitten]

136. try again? yeah, you definitely should consider going back to the drawing board

but instead you hover over this bit of silliness with hawkish interest ...

so very DU

And I'm done helping you bump this crap up. :boring: :hi:

[EFerrari]

141. Again, a non response to my question. Just more bs.

I agree. This is going nowhere.

[rinsd]

138. No accusation? Not some kind of rabid attack?

"that Hillary Clinton will work for universal health care when she helped open the NYSE even as the air at Ground Zero was toxic?

People are DYING right now because our first responders worked there with no or little protection. Schools were opened. People were let back into their homes."

You're stating that Hillary caused these people to die so why should she be trusted on health care?

Unless its like some kind of kindegarten crush where you're mean to the ones you crush on, I don;t see any other way to characterize it.

All this evn though it was Bush's EPA and Rudy's OEM that was responsible for opening areas that were unsafe.

And the best part is you cite that NYSE was toxic when one of your own sources (hat tip onenote) made it very unlikely the air was toxic near the NYSE vs Ground Zero.

All that ignoring that the biggest advocate for tak9ing care of these people and exposing this was Hillary Clinton.

[EFerrari]

142. Personal attacks are no substitute for actual thought. n/t

[rinsd]

143. That's a personal attack but your OP is not an attack on Clinton?

What planet do you live on?

[EFerrari]

149. Can you distinguish between an attack and a question?

[GeorgeGist]

130. '...our first responders worked there with no or little protection.'

Could it be that Hillary was just as misinformed as them?

Or do you envision Hillary as a 'know it all'.

:freak:
:nuke:

[Hippo_Tron]

150. If the EPA report was false how was she supposed to know?

When the Bush administration falsified the intelligence to say there were WMDs in Iraq, they certainly didn't go around informing Senators of that fact. I don't see why the same wouldn't hold true for everything else the Bush administration falsifies.