I'm beginning to think the Republicans have no shot electorally

[BluegrassDem]

I really don't see ANY of those bozos carrying Ohio. I think barring some sorta total collapse, that any of the top tier Democrats will carry Ohio. A year ago, I would think Hillary would have a hard time, but I'm really thinking now that with the GOP revolt in Ohio, I don't think they'll carry the state next year, which basically seals their doom.

I think any of the top tier Democratic candidates can hold onto to the Kerry states, and maybe be competitive in states like New Mexico, Nevada, West Virginia, and Arkansas.

Guiliani is the only GOP candidate I can see possibly threatening a blue state or two, but those other guys won't do shit.

[Captain Angry]

1. In a fair fight, you're probably right.

But a little manipulation, a little creative timing on the release of terror warnings, another $300.00 bribe and interesting things can happen.

[elocs]

21. I know what you are saying, but the fair fight stuff is getting old.

When somebody intends to pick your pocket and does it, that's one thing. When somebody all but tells you they are going to pick your pocket and do (2004), well that's getting bad and it makes us look so bad that all we can do is sit and crie, "thieves, thieves!" If the Republicans manage to steal another election it is not because they are all-powerful, it is because the Democrats are inept. This is politics, not tiddleywinks, and there is no fair fight. You need to protect yourself at all times and actually be prepared and to fight (like all of those lawyers at election time in 2004 and how every vote would be counted--sure thing).

[elizm]

56. WELL SAID!! n/t

[BootinUp]

62. agreed. n/t

[zonmoy]

63. perhaps they would be inept though I would simply ask

how incompetent would they have to get for you to start suspecting that they are going beyond ineptness to deliberately losing to get the others in power.

[LibDemAlways]

2. Ghouliani would probably be the most competitive

repuke candidate, but he'll never get the nomination without the support of the extreme nutcase wing of the party, and they won't give their blessing to someone who isn't stridently anti-abortion and anti-gay.

[virginia mountainman]

3. We can win in a walk with ease...

If we don't start beating the "gun control" drums again...

[billbuckhead]

9. We will win with gun control just like the rest of the civilized world

That's why DU is being so heavily astroturfed by the gun lobby and it's minions. The fear is palpable. It going to be fun watching gun nuts crying on their bluing in the next few years. I can't wait to see Al Gore's swearing in.

[virginia mountainman]

15. Nope....

let the right wing be the one that takes away our civil rights!

[billbuckhead]

26. They already have a good start and the gun "enthusiast" crowd

cheered it on.

BTW, how many thousands of Americans have been shot since Virginia Tech? Don't you need a ribbon for them?

[virginia mountainman]

30. Billy....

I shed tears for all folks killed, but unlike you, I blame the individual that did the killin', not the tool he used...

I don't blame an inanimate object...I blame the killer.

[NickB79]

24. If the Democrats vote in another AWB

We'll see a repeat of 1994, and the Dem. president will be a single-term one.

[billbuckhead]

25. More of the gun nut assault on reason, let's lynch Al Gore

Let's be afraid of doing the right thing. Let's listen to the worst of America instread of the best of the civilized world. Let's listen to Charlton Heston cowardly saying he would supply the rope to lynch Al Gore.

[LBJDemocrat]

27. Umm.

There's a war going on and an economy that's outsourcing everything from manufacturing work to banking jobs. Shouldn't we have bigger fish to try than taking away the citizenry's right to bear arms?

[virginia mountainman]

29. Exactly...

Those that concentrate on the proven fallacies of "ugly rifle bans" Need to look at the bigger picture, the legislation that NOW will not pass, because their supporting vote will no longer be their....

The Backlash against us for moving on gun control is FACT, it has happened, to many many democrats (and repukes). Also note that many of the seats we won last year, was replacing a repuke, with a pro-gun Dem. I recall some extremely strong pro-2nd talk from my senator, Jim Webb.

Just look at what the repukes have done to the nation as a whole since the 1994 election...need I say more?? All for a ugly rifle ban, that does not exist anymore.

[billbuckhead]

31. Even all the major Republicans are sympathetic to stronger gun regulations

All good and reasonable people are for much stronger gun regulations.

[slackmaster]

58. So anyone who thinks the regulations we have now are fine but not adequately enforced

Is just an unreasonable person, right billbuckhead?

[LanternWaste]

35. You believe that...?

You believe that the AWB was responsible for the Republic's sweep during the 104th Congress?

[virginia mountainman]

41. Yes, and so does Bill Clinton

President Clinton stated that 20-21 of the seats lost in the House were directly due to their votes on the ban. Considering that the Repubicans' post-election majority was only 14 seats, it is clear that Clinton's "assault weapons" ban cost his party control of the House.

How big is our majority in the house NOW?? 2?? 3??

They bring up more national gun control.....We WILL, go down in flames.

[LanternWaste]

50. I'm under the impression Pres. Clinton believed it was...

I'm under the impression Pres. Clinton believed it was the attempt to pass the health care plan that allowed for the Republic resurgence in the 104th. I guess we have different sources.


What major gun legislation is on the congressional calendar that give you pause we may end up losing congress again?

[virginia mountainman]

61. Well for starters...

This one...

The bill can be seen at http://thomas.loc.gov/ enter "hr 1022" and select "bill number"


If that monstrosity, even gets an "up or down" vote, it will cost us dearly.

Gun folks are well known for taking careful notes, of who voted for what, and even if the legislation does not pass, their are ramifications at the polls.

It has happened many times before

[benEzra]

52. It was a huge part of it...

don't forget that a lot of the repubs who voted for the Feinstein ban also went down. It was a HUGE issue in flyover country, and since '94, gun owners have maintained or picked up seats in every single election since '94, IIRC (it is noteworthy that the Dems who flipped the Senate in '06 were pro-gun-owner and anti-AWB).

Don't forget there are ~80 million gun owners in the U.S., and that half of gun owners are registered Dems or indies. Prior to '94, most gun owners had an "it can't happen here" atttitude toward gun bans, but the Feinstein ban changed that in a big way, and got gunnies off their asses.

The Feinstein ban potentially affected a third to a half of gun owners, by sending prices for replacement pistol magazines through the roof (rifles and rifle mags weren't significantly affected), and Feinstein et al promised more to come. The introduction of Brady II (similar to the S.1431 that hurt Sen. Kerry in 2004) on top of that made it very clear where things were going.

California-style bans on nonhunting guns do NOT fly in most of the United States.


FWIW, here's some background on the issue, if you're interested (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO):

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?

[billbuckhead]

32. The Constitution says "well regulated" miltias

Maybe if good people stood up to the neoCONS and their gun nut brownshirts like Heston and the NRA earlier we wouldn't be in this mess. It's despicable that the NRA leader said he would provide the rope to lynch Al Gore, I hope Al Gore gets revenge on these.................

BTW, what gun would Jesus use?

[LBJDemocrat]

33. This is what the Second Amendment actually says:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The purpose of the right to bear arms is ultimately to create a militia. The militia part is what they used as the rationale, but it clearly says that the RKBA will not be infringed.

Jesus wouldn't advocate any violent resistance to evil. So I don't think he'd use any gun. At the same time, I'm not so sure he would've approved of armies, nuclear weapons, or abortion either. That doesn't mean I'm anti-choice or think America should completely disarm. Just that the New Testament is a book that guides personal relations not how a government is run. There are religions that prescribe how the government should run, but Christianity is not among them.

[billbuckhead]

34. You can't be pro jesus and pro gun

Ever hear "beat your swords into plowshares"?

BTW, the last time 2nd amendment milita was used against the goverment, Uncle Billy Sherman used the undergunned confederate miltia for target practice when the Yankees righteously marched to the sea.

[LanternWaste]

37. There are passages

There are passages in the New Testament that direct Christians to take up arms in specific and particular situations.

Not that I have any real dog in the running in the gun debate (never had one, probably never will and try to avoid people that have them as a general rule, but that's just me...)

[Pyrzqxgl]

39. I'd just as soon people who don't have a damn good reason to have a gun &

people who do't know how to use one not have one. As long as no one points one
at me I'd just as soon stay out of the gun debate & I don't think the Democrats have
to make it a major issue.

[Pyrzqxgl]

40. I'd just as soon people who don't have a damn good reason to have a gun &

people who do't know how to use one not have one. As long as no one points one
at me I'd just as soon stay out of the gun debate & I don't think the Democrats have
to make it a major issue.

[LanternWaste]

49. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I as far as I know, there's no major or pending gun legislation on the calendar, and I think it will stay that way.

[benEzra]

53. What's the status of H.R.1022? (n/t)

[slackmaster]

55. Latest Major Action: 3/19/2007 Referred to House subcommittee.

Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.

The bill now has 49 cosponsors, compared to 47 last time I looked. Still not one Republican among them.

The two latest Democrats to jump on the "Let's hand Congress back to the GOP" bandwagon are:

Rep Rothman, Steven R. - 6/6/2007
Rep Sires, Albio - 6/6/2007

Congressman Sires was born in Cuba. Rothman is a strong environmentalist. Too bad both of these good men have been duped into supporting this disaster of a bill.

See http://www.thomas.gov

[billbuckhead]

47. So what "piece" would the prince of peace pack?

Most of what's wrong with America is that a dangerous minority think that problems can be solved with guns. Like this guy
.

[benEzra]

44. Is that why a PRO-GUN DEM kicked ass in Ohio in 2006? (n/t)

[virginia mountainman]

46. Don't forget Virginia too!! NT

[Herman74]

54. I would have thought that after what happened at Virginia Tech...

...you gun nuts would be UTTERLY ASHAMED to ever show your faces here again. But, of course, you'll mark up all the loss of life there to just an "unavoidable tragedy," necessary as your love of your selfish "right" to own a gun supersedes the rights of others to live, that is, to be not gunned down by the insane.

And so the gruesome carnage will continue because of lack of gun control, and, thanks to you and your NRA, the U.S. will continue to have among the industrialized countries of the Western world the highest murder rate.

[slackmaster]

59. VT was a classic example of laws already on the books not being enforced

Cho was disqualified from buying or having a gun under existing federal law. The state of Virginia's procedures for reporting mental health commitments and adjudications were inadequate.

Yes, you do have a right not to be gunned down by the insane. But placing the blame on all people who value the right to keep and bear arms misses the target.

[virginia mountainman]

65. I will PROUDLY show my face...

As a Proud NATIVE Virginian, that lives a short drive from Virginia Tech, whom had a VT Sign in my front yard since BEFORE the shooting...
.
Just because ONE INDIVIDUAL goes nuts, does not mean I will persecute the 90,000,000 gun owners whom DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG.

No TRUE LIBERAL would Pick and chose over the "Bill of Rights" like it is a cheap Chinese Buffet...

With me, the "B of R", is ALL, or nothing...You can give up your rights to the rethugs, but you damn certain cant make me give up mine.

[Bullet1987]

4. The Rethug Party is in a little delimma

Guiliani is probably the most electable, but I find it hard to believe that he gets the nomination at the risk of many conservatives sitting 2008 out because they won't want to vote for him. But we should notice who they all attacked at their debate...Hillary Clinton. As much as we don't want to admit it, she is like a political pinata. I could easily see Christian Conservatives voting in droves just so she won't become President. That's why conservatives pimp her so much on TV...she IS a unifying force for them!!

[Erika]

7. I can see Hillary easily as the next president

as I can Obama, or Richardson, or Edwards. Classy people.

The evangelicals had their heyday in hating anyone who didn't believe as they did and trying to legislate against them. That's over.

[karynnj]

28. I don't think it is over - and it really doesn't depend on who are candidate is

Assuming that in the next year and a few months, the supreme court stays as is, consider that the next justice will be critical on Roe vs Wade.

When it came down to it in 2004, the evangelicals and conservative Catholics didn't all vote for Bush because they saw him as more moral than Senator Kerry. Some did and some leaders lied about both men. What it came down to was the reality that Kerry would nominate moderate or liberal judges who were pro-choice and that Bush would nominate pro-life judges.

If, you think abortion is murder as some of these people do, that one issue can dominate your choice. In 2008, when it is down to 1 judge, I really doubt that you can rule this out as a factor. This may be a group that is genuinely unreachable. Consider that the contrast is likely to be less than Kerry and Bush - many people did really know who the better man was and still voted Bush, just because of this issue.

[Erika]

8. I can see Hillary easily as the next president

as I can Obama, or Richardson. or Edwards. Classy people.

The evangelicals had their heyday in hating anyone who didn't believe as they did and trying to legislate against them. That's over.

[Erika]

5. The GOP spewed hatred upon the poor and middle class

and anyone who wasn't a Christian fundamentalist or wealthy.

I hope the GOP is dead, dead, dead.

[UrbScotty]

6. Do realize that you're talking about Ohio.

And do realize that we still have more than 500 days, during which time things can change quite a lot.

[Erika]

10. Dennis is also great. n/t

[TeamJordan23]

11. Hillary is doing bad in national polls in Penn

I think that is one state that can go republican if Hillary is the nominee.

[Erika]

13. That's not what the stats are showing

What's your info?

[Eurobabe]

22. I'd say that's pretty much BS

:eyes:

[Clark2008]

42. No, it's not.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1014

Older info - but the most recent I could find.

[Eurobabe]

48. When it comes down to it a Democrat will win PA

that's all I am sayin' -- PA will remain in the blue column. There is TONS of anger there, and no Red candidate will take the state, even the typically Red suburbs of Philly have become more blue.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. Those bastards are all about dropping atomic bombs & creationism.

It's completely absurd.

[Erika]

14. They were a bunch of screwballs

My thoughts exactly.

[TankLV]

16. Let's see - over 80% of repukes STRONGLY support bunkerboy

and they comprise A PART of the 20% of ALL the idiots who still support the WAR CRIMINALS...

Do the math...

In order to get the repuke nominiation, they have to go after positions the over 80% of the the entire rest of the country is AGAINST!

[WCGreen]

17. The problem with the new boss in Ohio....

Is that he is being portrayed, in the Cleveland Media at least, as the same as the old boss...

High ranking political hacks who lack the skills to compete in the real world are being awarded cushy jobs in the Strickland administration...

And that's not all...

Key public officials are awarded with jobs that pay up to $75k a year, complete with great benefits, simply because they are seen as crucial to the re-election of the new bosses...

Patronage is a way of life in politics...

I just wish that instead of handing out jobs to people surely not qualified for the posts were instead given to good democrats who are qualified but perhaps don't have the "name" to help get them in the door...

The PD is making much of this and it could make people think that there really is no difference between the corrupt ways of the defeated GOP and the questionable patronage being doled out to party hangers on whose last meaningful job was in the 1980's when a democrat last held high office here in Ohio...

We can do better than that...

We have to do better than that...

[CK_John]

18. DU is like ex Generals, fighting the "last war". Our greatest threat is not

even in the race yet. The GOP knows it is coming but we don't even think it can happen. That's why they don't care right now. Around next April 08 we will see a new movement field their candidate. An Ind candidate with big dollars and tech savvy to gather up the great middle.

They will present a pro green, pro science, pro nuclear power, pro practical agenda, pro can do, fix the potholes and anti political party agenda.

I fear we will be asleep at the wheel again and look back and say "what the hell happened ?".

[Athens30603]

19. I agree entirely

[CaliforniaPeggy]

20. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy yourself in our crazy, addictive little village, Athens30603!

:hi:

[Athens30603]

38. Thanks!

Thanks! Still trying to get used to the speed at which things happen around here!

[snowbear]

23. Only now JUST beginning?

We put anyone except HRC, we are in ----- 110% in.


BTW- I thought it was hilarious how Tucker and his idiotic guest (I can't remember who) last week said that Fred Thompson has a hard time piecing together a cohernet sentence.

They expected a lot more from an "Actor". But evidently, when it comes to hard politicial questions, he's pretty dense.

[OHdem10]

36. Think that at our Peril. Republicans have not given up

and they will fight dirty in order to try stay
in the game.

They are right now using Immigration as an election issue.

Their Presidential Candidates running as in a General Election.
They are trashing Democrats at every stop. After a while
some of this trash will stick.

This is going to be the most hard fought campaign in History.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

43. Gay marriage, religious bigotry, and 400 dollar haircuts

Don't underestimate the power the culture war has on the useful idiot freepers.

[TruePatriot44]

45. Better Hope its not Ron Paul

Wouldn't it be ironic if a democratic candidate such as Hillary or Edwards who voted for the war came up against Ron Paul? He voted against the war and doesn't support it. Most Americans are pissed off about the war and thats the only reason Dems won last election. Be afraid....be very afraid.

[zonmoy]

64. he would probably be the only republican candidate I would vote for

in any election where there are any other candidates to chose from.

[BeyondGeography]

51. We've lost seven of the last 10 presidential elections

Many of them winnable.

In the opposition's eyes, we're the Pompous Ass Party, in our eyes, they're the Horse's Ass Party. Americans tend to feel more comfortable with the Horse's Ass.

Overconfidence is ill-advised.

[slackmaster]

57. After Nixon resigned in 1974, many said there wouldn't be a GOP President for a generation

Then came Ronald Wilson Reagan who beat an INCUMBENT Democratic President, Jimmy Carter, in 1980.

I hate to see people forgetting the lessons of history.

[BootinUp]

60. There are still realistic combinations

They could win with, without Ohio. You are letting your guard down way too low.