I am moving more to Kucinich every day

[thoughtcrime1984]

The depth of Dennis' stances on many of the issues that concern me is truly impressive. I just visited his website, and coupled with his debate performance, I feel that he would best represent me as POTUS. I still am impressed by Obama, but I urge everyone to at least look at Dennis Kucinich's ideas. He is a very thoughtful human being that represents the common man better than any of the current candidates, in my opinion. I really don't think he has a chance at winning, but if the US voters as a whole could ever see past the ends of their noses, I'll bet that the majority would find him to be most representative of many of their views.

[Czolgosz]

1. Unless you live in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, or South Carolina, you may as well vote your

conscience.

Obama is good, but he will be better when he sees that Kucinich's ideas will work. Obama is a natural leader in search of the right direction to lead us, and Kucinich has the map.

[thoughtcrime1984]

3. That is the big reason that Dennis is so important

Hopefully Obama, or whoever gets the nomination, will adopt some of his views and try to make them work. Make them work for society as a whole. If we don't change the path of gov't soon, it will be beyond retrieval. We are already a nation ran by corporations.

[Czolgosz]

4. I'm supporting Kucinich accepting that he can't win because I want my vote to stand for the message

that his platform has real support among the party faithful.

I'd be happy to see Obama or Edwards win the nomination, but whoever wins, I want them to see that there is real support for Kucinich's platform. That's what I'm currently planning to vote for.

[Tom Joad]

2. I would like to know where Obama stands on Iraqi oil privatization

the only clear voice on that is Dennis Kucinich.

[AnOhioan]

5. I expect more folks to see Dennis favorably as.....

the campaign wears on.

[robcon]

6. The 'only' Democrat I will not vote for is Kucinich.

He's an asshat. Did someone say Department of Peace?

[Le Taz Hot]

7. Really?

And yet my encounter with him was very pleasant. In 2004 he came to my town several times. At the CDC convention in 2003/2004 (?) I was setting up the Dean booth. He was invited to speak and had to walk by our table on his way to the conference room.

He stopped and talked to us for a good 5 minutes. He was very nice and seemed genuinely interested in what we had to say. I told him he was my #2 and he laughed. I saw nothing of the "asshat" of which you speak.

[AnOhioan]

11. Your command of the language is so........

refined :sarcasm:

I have read your posts on Dennis...not once have you provided any factual evidence, just insults.

He is more Democratic than you or most of his fellow elected officials.

[Greyhound]

31. Don't sweat it, it's all in his name.

This is what he does and it is of no consequence.

[The_Progressive]

8. Dennis' orbit is jut a bit to high for me.

He's got some good ideas. But then he gets these off-the-wall concepts that would be a disaster if implemented. Take his plan to end the Iraq war. A noble goal indeed but his approach is one taco short of a combination plate. For example let's look a two of his 12 points:

3. Order a simultaneous return of all US contractors to the United States and turn over all contracting work to the Iraqi government.

7. Reconstruction and Jobs. Restart the failed reconstruction program in Iraq. Rebuild roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, and other public facilities, houses, and factories with jobs and job training going to local Iraqis.

http://kucinich.us/iraqplan

How can you do (7) if you've just done (3)? This isn't well thought out.

But the fact is he just isn't Presidential material. He needs to support a viable candidate lest he become the Pat Paulson of this age.

[robcon]

9. I agree. He's not a practical man.

He's impassioned but he'd be an awful president.

His only administrative position, mayor of Cleveland, was an utter disaster.

[Nederland]

10. Get your flame suite on

Because you are about to get assaulted by all the Kucinich backers who will tell you that "in the long run", his decisions as mayor were actually good for the city. Unfortunately they forget that "in the long run", we're all dead. The fact of the matter is that the ten years following his term as mayor were very very hard for the people of Cleveland.

[LWolf]

14. Presidential material.

I wonder what that is.

I don't know, obviously. I didn't see Kerry as "presidential material," I don't see the current annointed "three" as presidential material.

I don't know if DK is "presidential material." He may not be. He may not be corrupt enough, elite enough, controlled enough, or have the ivy league polish expected from a puppet figure-head.

I know that his platform, his world view, and his motivations are so far beyond the other Democratic offerings that it makes his opponents look neanderthal, to say the least.

[Mark_Pogue]

16. Kucinich is

progressive!!

[Red Knight]

18. Well maybe Iraqis could do it cheaper

Do you suppose that Iraq has no construction capabilities outside the United States expertise? I'm sure that Saddam had roads built without bringing in U.S. contractors. Those people are in Iraq. People who would run construction firms exist in Iraq.

U.S. contractors are certainly targets and they need other contractors(Blackwater and such) to protect them while they work adding MORE to the expense. It's costly.

What I think he's saying there is that the U.S. should turn over this sort of work to the Iraqis who live there. Let them solve some of these things locally and let those companies grow instead of pissing money away to U.S. firms who are targets anyway---and because of the war have a lucrative business rebuilding things that keep getting destroyed.

Perhaps there's a different and even less costly way.

Look, we can keep doing the thing that's not working over and over and hope things change, or we can try something new.

If nothing else--Kucinich represents what should be the heart and soul of this party--before it was tugged to the so-called center which oddly keeps moving to the right.

I don't agree with him on everything(If I had a shot at Bin Laden I would take him out as a terrorist--I don't call that assasination) but frankly this party could use a little tug back to the left.

This party is either just "another corporate party" or it is a party for every day people to feel their voice still counts--still means something.

Kucinich represents THAT party better than any of them.

That's why I'm voting for him in the primary.

If it is only about winning the battle of the White House to fill the seat with someone who tosses more crumbs to the people than the other guys but still leaves them starving, is it winning the battle only to lose the war?

I promise you that I will ultimately vote for any Dem against the Republicans. I won't stay home. But the primary is about the heart and soul of this party.

If HRC can twist to the right without fear because her base is already locked up she can take us for granted or even ignore us ultimately because she knows the people she really has to serve are the ones she could lose, and that's on the right.

I'd like the base to mean something.

If that base HAS shifted along with party leaders so far to the right that it only matters that we vote for a "Dem" label----sort of like the Bush supporters who will only vote for a "Rep" label no matter how far away from conservative they become, we're in trouble.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. One of the major problems in Iraq, one that fuels the violence

is massive unemployment, engendered partly by the U.S. authorities firing 500,000 civil servants as one of their first acts.

Starting a construction program that gave Iraqi builders and contractors work and money to hire their fellow citizens would go a long way toward alleviating the violence.

[Greyhound]

32. Is it a comprehension problem? Is it monumental arrogance?

The Iraqis need to do the work, it is their country, they have the expertise and cost far less. We should pay the lion's share of those costs since we destroyed the nation and its economy.

[rucky]

34. Re-read what you just cut and pasted. n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Interesting how some don't support Kucinich but

flock to threads about him just to post insults.

[ellisonz]

13. The DU primary wars have begun!

:woohoo::sarcasm:

[robcon]

17. I don't support Kucinich.

I occasionally post about him - I think he's an awful candidate - an embarrassment to the Democratic Party. And I'm eager to say why.

Why is that so damn interesting, DemBones? It seems boilerplate Democratic Party activity.

Here on DU, there seems to be a much, much larger contingent that attacks Hillary Clinton - is that "interesting" too? How about the anti-Edwards crowd... is that "interesting" too?

[Solon]

19. Which of Kucinich's ideas are so damned awful?

His Health care plan actually is the only one that makes sense, budget wise. His Department of Peace idea may seem pie in the sky, however, he also wants to make the Department of Defense actually be a department of defense, and not a department of war. He also has a comprehensive plan for the Iraq situation that doesn't involve giving American companies a blank check. His free trade positions are right on the money, and the truth, even the other candidates are moderating their position on free trade due to its current failure right now. I could go on.

[AnOhioan]

25. Don't bother asking robcon why he (or she) hates Dennis

robcon has yet to provide any meaningful answers to that question

[Solon]

26. Good point, I mean, this is the same guy who thinks free trade is just fine as is...

never met a person on DU with a more appropriate username.

[Apollo11]

15. You would need a new username

I do think it's important to pick a candidate who will win back the Whitehouse.

It is not a foregone conclusion and the corporate media will get behind the GOP candidate.

Recent polls show Rudy Giuliani could easily win against Hillary or Obama.

I guess if Karl Rove could vote for our nominee, he would want Kucinich.

The Republicans would be most afraid of Al Gore or Wes Clark.

So I am hoping that either one or both of them will enter the race.

It now looks about 99% likely that Wes will announce his candidacy in September.

We need a credible candidate who is able to unite all Democrats, win the election and then go on to lead the changes we need.

I wish for either a GORE-OBAMA or a CLARK-OBAMA ticket in 2008.

[LWolf]

20. While I believe that this is a perfect illustration of why Democrats

are not strong.

When voters, reps, and candidates are willing to play the "fear" game to make sure that the "mainstream," corporate-controlled candidates are elected and stay in power, it weakens the party. The corporate media will back Democrats, if they are the "right" Democrats. The fear game sure as hell loses the support and votes of those who won't play; those who won't be threatened, bullied, or patronized into compliance with the mainstream agenda.

Mine, and many others.

[AnOhioan]

21. Exactly how I feel LWolf

Thanks for posting

[LWolf]

30. You're welcome!

:hi:

[robcon]

22. Incredible strawman, LWolf

Someone who is against Dennis Kucinich for president is "willing to play the "fear" game to make sure that the "mainstream," corporate-controlled candidates are elected."?????

Any evidence that I want corporate-controlled candidates to win? I didn't think so. I don't think you want, much less have, any evidence of who I want to win. You just want to smear those who disagree with you.

Or did you even consider that I just think that Kucinich is a jerk? A dimwit? Idiotic policies? I didn't think so.

[LWolf]

29. Strawman? You built a pretty good one.

Start with your first statement:

Someone who is against Dennis Kucinich for president is "willing to play the "fear" game to make sure that the "mainstream," corporate-controlled candidates are elected."?????

I didn't say that, and I didn't mean it. The "fear" game I refer to is not about Dennis Kucinich. It is the suggestion that we can't vote for who we WANT to be president, because that person inevitably won't win, but that we must vote for someone we don't like, because they are the only candidates who can "win," or who "scare" Republicans. Those are, according to what I can find about donors, the "corporate" candidates.

I'm not quoting you here. This is a constant background theme to primary politics. I just heard that theme playing behind your post.

Frankly, I think the candidates that the corporate media do not ignore, marginalize, and ridicule are those they, and republicans, are most afraid of. They highlight those they know they can control, or those they know will be complicit in the greater corporate agenda.

You're right. I don't want evidence of who you want to win, because I don't really care who you want to win. That wasn't my point. I wasn't attacking your candidate. You were the one doing the attacking, IRC.

You said, You just want to smear those who disagree with you.

Err..No. :eyes: I expressed an opinion. I get to do that. It's not personal. I believe that those who choose candidates, or who campaign for candidates, or who use the talking points, of "electability" are weakening the Democratic Party. I believe that because I believe a strong party opposes republicans and corporate rule. I believe that the annointed "electable" candidates do not; they are complicit. I can't find a smear in that.

You said, Or did you even consider that I just think that Kucinich is a jerk? A dimwit? Idiotic policies? I didn't think so.

No. I didn't consider what you think about Dennis Kucinich at all. I wasn't talking about Dennis Kucinich, but about the "who can win" tactic, deciding who "can win" a year before the first primary vote is cast.

If that's what you think, I'm sorry for you, and I'm sorrier for the Democratic Party. Since you asked me to consider it.

A "strawman" is a fallacy based on misrepresentation. Who misrepresented whom, in this case? I would have to say that you did.

I really dislike those arguments where one poster tries to tell the other what his or her own words mean. I hope this won't become one of those arguments. If I misinterpreted your remarks, my apologies. I won't expect the same from you, but I also won't sit silently and accept misrepresentation of my posts.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. Monicker check.

[Greyhound]

33. LOL!

Pot, meet Kettle...
:rofl:

[bamacrat]

27. Good for you, I hope more people will follow Dennis.

Dennis is really the only candidate that truly has ideas for how to change this country.

[SIIHPAPP]

28. The Kucster will SAVE AMERICA

he is hour only hope for redemption of the last non-years of evility prepetuated by the boozsh gesatpo!!!! on that glorious day that he becomes our leader, america will reclaim her rightful place as the exact equal of all other nation-constucts. viva la kuc!!!

[leftofthedial]

35. I hope enough of us support him that his ideas can percolate up

to the corporatist front-runners, who really don't represent most of us

[EndElectoral]

36. After watching the Dem debate, voting for anyone but him seems like more of the same

For the first time in 50 years I'm thinking of writing in a vote for 2008 President. I just cannot align with the Clinton or Biden policies of more of the same. Obama is vague, and not progressive enough for my tastes. Edwards is still a possilbilty. Kucinich I will most likely vote for in the primary. Gravel and Dodd are decent, but Kucinich appeals more.

I would hope Gore or Clark might enter the ring, but if not and Kucinich loses the primary, it is entirely possible I write in a vote this time. I never thought I'd say that after casting my first for vote for JFK, and voting Democratic in every election since 1960, but it is looming.

[Hollow Shells]

37. Kucinich is the only liberal in the bunch...

the rest are moderates. If you like liberal policies then he is the only clear choice. Unfortunately he does not have the name/face, I would be surprised to see him beat Guiliani. That just leaves us with the pale diluted imitation candidates (you know who they are).

[BrutalEntropy]

38. Gravel?

I support Kucinich myself, but by saying he's the only liberal in the bunch is a (in my opinion) disservice to Mike Gravel.

I think they both have an equal chance of getting the nomination... which is to say, so small as to be realistically zero. I think that's a damn shame.

[rucky]

39. Flat tax is not progressive. n/t

[Hollow Shells]

40. You caught me!

I don't know anything about Mike Gravel, I guess I will have to check him out.

[jenmarie]

41. Don't have to convince me.

I agree about Kucinich, and it says a lot about our political system that he is ridiculed and shoved aside in favour of the "stars" Corporate Press has decided on.

I know he hasn't a snowball's chance, but if Clark and Gore don't enter the race, that's who I'll be supporting. I love Dennis, agree with his policies, and trust him implicitly.